Lost Island, ***...

[NoxiousAlby]

After reading this over a couple of times (thanks for the amusement, btw), all one can really take away is... you want continual gear progression with no difficulty curve and you especially don't want any optional content that is semi-challenging for other small groups, because that impinges upon content delivery for you, and you are the center of the universe.

Thankyou

 

I didn't specify past tense, I simply asked if you were running them on your 50s; ergo, now. Apparently you aren't, so you don't have any interest in facerolling Athiss, Mandalorian raiders, etc, which leaves me with two possible conclusions:

 

1. You do care about difficulty, because there's nothing rewarding in oneshotting every mob. However, your difficulty preferences are apparently objective and absolute because, uh, you've played MMOs a lot, and <insert appeal to popularity fallacy here>.

 

2. You have a strange desire for pointless gear progression. All tier 1 flashpoints can be facerolled when wearing the gear you acquire from them, but you don't want difficulty to increase, so... you want higher numbers on your character sheet for no reason.

Your seriously not reading my my posts

 

Do you really think someone who raided SSC & BT when it was released would have trouble with LI? Yes I enjoy a challenge BUT I enjoy completing flashpoints within a reasonable time more.

 

In games not everyone is equal, do you suggest that I propose to my friends that we drop those players that cant handle the mechanics in favour of pugs who can? For some people playing with friends is their entire reason & motivation to play. As it is we have to pug D7 because some members cant handle the mechanics of Mentor on normal let alone HM.

 

Flashpoints should be doable within 30min - 1hr, where a fight requires players to go back night after night to learn and defeat a boss mechanic is when we enter the realm of raiding mechanics.

 

When flashpoint (HM LI) rewards are inferior than operation (HM EV) and yet the difficulty is greater there is something wrong.

 

If BW wants T2 flashpoint difficulty to be greater than T1 operational difficulty thats fine as long as T1 operations are made into 4 mans. That way players who are incapable of handling the T2 mechanics have something new to run and gear their characters. But for non/ex raiders (particularly those new to group content) to jump from T1 flashpoints to T2 flashpoints in Tionese & Columi gear is rediculious.

Edited May 30, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[NoxiousAlby]

Quantity is not quality.

They are still a few of us that still prefere a good quality game, with challenge and fun.

If bioware decide to go the path of soccer mom content, flashpoint that can be done over "luch break" (that is a blizzard quote), content so faceroll it cease to provide any fun whatsoever, then it will be without me.

 

So far, i am satisfied with the current content of hard mode, be denova or lost island.

I wont argue with what is your percieved opinion, obviously challenge/difficulty is a major factor in providing your entertainment. However, I will say that I believe that difficuty belongs in operations and not flashpoints which should be achievable by inexperienced players.

 

moreover, over the 12 millions subscriber, only about half of them were paying subscriber. there are detail per region of blizzard activision income. WoW europe and US make for 80% of wow revenue, asia is about 10%. Those are not make up stat, those are real financial report.

This is true, but servers during Wotlk were not as dead as they are now or as empty as what we are experiencing in Swtor. Fuller servers generate a better atmosphere

 

finally food for though, yes wow has about 10 millions subs ( more like 5 millions paying subs and another 5 that pay 7 cent an hour and don't log that often) , so did TBC

Do you think the quality of the community is the same now than it was in TBC?

By quality, i mean, skill, patience, willing to help, and of course, not being a douche on anonymous LFG.

Sadly no, the gaming community just as social communities have evolve

 

We will never see community atmosphere as it was in TBC again, times change and so do players expectations. For me TBC was the height of player base social interaction & behaviour, since then it has all been down hill but I dont blame the decline on lack of difficulty or the introduction of dungeon finder. It's like any community, the larger it gets the more unsociable it becomes. And as games are profit driven from a developers perspective the larger the player base the better.

 

I also noticed am increase in the epeen factor after TBC, as you said players no longer were willing to work through encounters. Virtues such as patience and tolerance no longer exist

 

WoW subs have been steadily decreasing since mid WoLK, at slow pace. From what i see from the beta, i don't see the trend reversing. Trus gamer looks for good games, soccer mom move on faster than you can say unsub.

Actually Wotlk subs starting falling 3 months into the LK raid, as there was no new content released for 6 months after that. Just as subs spiked to new highs 4 weeks before Cataclysm was released only to start falling to new lows within 3 months of that expansions release.

 

I also knew raiders who would clear all content, even heroic, and would unsub until new content was released just as I knew "soccer mom" players who subbed for the entire 7 years till Cata drove them away.

Edited May 30, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[Witsburg]

I personally think the difficulty level in Lost Island HM is fine the way it is. I have beaten it in under 30 mins, so the length is fine. It's also doable in Tionese level gear, with a few Columi pieces. This was the level of gear my group had when we first did it, but our gear has improved vastly since then.

 

The boss difficulties... starting with the droid. You need 1 person that's very fast on the interrupts. Interrupt incinerate and avoid lightning... Only hard part should be interrupts, as a missed interrupt can equal a wipe.

 

Second boss, Project Sav-rak. also only 2 mechanics to worry about. Get under him when he does smash, hit console when he jumps to pipes.

 

Final boss Lorrick. Dodge the poison on the ground, standing in poison increases the amount of stacks, but it can be cleansed. Don't stand in front when he's doing the sticky grenades (can be LOS, but depending on your dps and healer might be better to have the tank eat it). There's really nothing after he hits 40%, just dps as quick as possible and avoid things that look like they'll hurt, (so burning rakghouls and interrupt his ravage)

 

So essentially... you need one really good player to do interrupts on the droid. This requirement is actually the reason I would not pug this, unless you're a good interrupter (i.e. can get interrupt off in under 1 sec preferably faster)

[Raeln]

The story mode devnoa is not that hard I hate to say it. It is more so team work in order to do it well. Once you have things down as a team the rest is very easy.

 

My guild is very casual and we have EC normal on farm. We have husbands, wifes, children, hardcore, normal players, the whole gambit and we can complete EC on farm.

 

Part of doing a group operation requires that the whole team be on the same page. You complete something as a group and feel like you earned the right of passage.

 

If I can do it I feel most pkayers can do EC normal. It wont let you steam roll the content and that's nice. Raids should not be something anyone can steam roll. Once you learn the mechanics the rest is easy.

 

Now HM kephess that is creazy lol.

 

Most players can do, or are capable of doing EC storymode. That does not mean that they want to.

 

We had no problem pugging the occasional last DPS when it was EV/KP, even hardmodes. We can't find anyone on our server willing to even join the group for Denova storymode. The care-o-meter is just not there.

[Raeln]

WoW subs have been steadily decreasing since mid WoLK, at slow pace. From what i see from the beta, i don't see the trend reversing. Trus gamer looks for good games, soccer mom move on faster than you can say unsub.

 

Actually, they held relatively steady through the end of WotLK and took a sharp nose dive about 2 months after Cataclysm rolled out. You know, Cataclysm - the expansion that the devs heralded as a return of "challenge"?

[Dragonexadon]

Most players can do, or are capable of doing EC storymode. That does not mean that they want to.

 

We had no problem pugging the occasional last DPS when it was EV/KP, even hardmodes. We can't find anyone on our server willing to even join the group for Denova storymode. The care-o-meter is just not there.

 

I love doing it week after week, so does my guild. That being said the post was about the difficultly of it and not so much the willingness to do so.

[AeSaar]

I am assuming the OP is talking about hard mode.

 

I have tried it twice with melee DPS both times and it is not even close to being easy. I can't get past the first boss. Best I have done is like getting him down to 20%. The challenge level is certainly above KP or EV hard with maybe the exception of the fabricator on hard. The reason being is those nasty debuffs both bosses do on hard. Assassins can self-cleanse and shroud through most of that junk, but jug tanks struggle.

 

It doesn't seem fair for the challenge level to be more difficult for certain classes, and the first boss of LI truly punishes jug tanks and melee dps. The Devs have acknowledged the jug threat generation problems, but it is more than that. Our interrupt is 4 meters (assassins is 10) and our defensive cool-down is junk compared to assassins. Even if they fix those problems, melee DPS is done with one incinerate debuff and the ranged DPS strategy has no chance of that happening (Its not the Lightning bubbles, it is the Incinerate that causes 'Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies'). Melee DPS have no way around a single mistake.

 

I just wish they would think about ALL of the classes when they design these fights.

Edited June 1, 2012 by AeSaar

[Aurojiin]

Even if they fix those problems, melee DPS is done with one incinerate debuff and the ranged DPS strategy has no chance of that happening (Its not the Lightning bubbles, it is the Incinerate that causes 'Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies'). Melee DPS have no way around a single mistake.

How about the super-advanced strategy of having the melee DPS not standing in front of the boss?

[XDOUBLEX]

How about the super-advanced strategy of having the melee DPS not standing in front of the boss?

 

I don't know why but I laughed my arse off when I read this. I may have to steal that line if you don't mind.

[Larry_Dallas]

I agree that LI's a little too hard. It's strange that one could sleepwalk through EV HM and get better gear than in LI, where the first boss is significantly more challenging than anything in any HM op outside denova except, mayyyybe HM fabricator.

 

It's sort of a strange progression. The difficulty of HM FPs is like 1, 2, 2, 4, 2, 2, 4, 10. Should be a 6 or something. Hardmode LI feels like it should be a nightmare mode, but gives way worse rewards (apart from the weekly comms).

[Vankris]

If you believe an MMO should have content to satisfy different category of players, then you should agree that it's ok to have only one so far mildly challenging hard mode flashpoint.

 

They still are 7 other hardmode flashpoint proposing easier content.

[Kitzinger]

If you believe an MMO should have content to satisfy different category of players, then you should agree that it's ok to have only one so far mildly challenging hard mode flashpoint.

 

They still are 7 other hardmode flashpoint proposing easier content.

 

I have no problem with the difficulty... it's the reward for the time invested that needs to be re-calibrated.

With that being said the FP is a good degree rougher than HM KP / EV and is more in the range of Denova SM. If you can beat the 2nd Boss then you can beat the FP.

[Aetou]

I have no problem with the difficulty... it's the reward for the time invested that needs to be re-calibrated.

With that being said the FP is a good degree rougher than HM KP / EV and is more in the range of Denova SM. If you can beat the 2nd Boss then you can beat the FP.

 

You think a Rakata Chest (previously only available from perhaps the hardest (non-Nim) boss in pre-1.2, HM Soa) plus Black Hole commendations isn't a good reward? It's way better than anything else available in HM FPs.

[oredith]

I have no problem with the difficulty... it's the reward for the time invested that needs to be re-calibrated.

With that being said the FP is a good degree rougher than HM KP / EV and is more in the range of Denova SM. If you can beat the 2nd Boss then you can beat the FP.

interestingly, you'll notice that LI HM drops the exact same loot as EC SM, and KP/EV hardmode.

 

so, i disagree with you slightly. I would say that the instance is on par with KP/EV hardmode, and on par with EC SM.

 

the big difference is there's no 1-week-reset timer. you can farm for the rakata chest over and over, and get another shot at the chest every 30 minutes (~28 minutes to clear the instance if you don't wipe, and skip bonus boss).

 

i view LI as a supplemental FP to EC SM, and KP/EV HM, NOT a continuation of the other FPs

 

also, as a 4 man of that level of difficulty, you also do not have the "carry room" of a normal 8 or 16 man. everyone has to actually not suck at the game.

Edited June 1, 2012 by oredith

[Larry_Dallas]

interestingly, you'll notice that LI HM drops the exact same loot as EC SM, and KP/EV hardmode.

 

Actually it doesn't. Of 5 bosses, 2 drop columi, 1 drops a thoroughly useless relic, 1 drops absolutely nothing and 1 drops a rakata piece and a columi piece.

 

That's Rakata x1

columi x3

 

HM ops, while being easier than LI have at least 4 bosses dropping rakata pieces.

 

 

It would make more sense how much more difficult LI is than the other FPs if LI did have drops like HM ops....but outside the last boss, it doesn't.

[oredith]

Actually it doesn't. Of 5 bosses, 2 drop columi, 1 drops a thoroughly useless relic, 1 drops absolutely nothing and 1 drops a rakata piece and a columi piece.

 

That's Rakata x1

columi x3

 

HM ops, while being easier than LI have at least 4 bosses dropping rakata pieces.

 

 

It would make more sense how much more difficult LI is than the other FPs if LI did have drops like HM ops....but outside the last boss, it doesn't.

farmable rakata chest piece every 30 minutes.

 

you're right, they're not the same, LI is much better for loot.

[Larry_Dallas]

farmable rakata chest piece every 30 minutes.

 

you're right, they're not the same, LI is much better for loot.

 

Why would someone need another rakata chespiece every 30 minutes after they already have one?

[oredith]

Why would someone need another rakata chespiece every 30 minutes after they already have one?

you have 5 companions, right?..

[Larry_Dallas]

you have 5 companions, right?..

 

Getting a rakata forcemaster chestpiece for talos drellik > getting rakata force master leggings and boots for sorc toon(edit: and probably a biometric or 58 armoring) in the same amount of time.

 

Nope. Can't say I agree at all

Edited June 1, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[oredith]

Getting a rakata forcemaster chestpiece for talos drellik > getting rakata force master leggings and boots for sorc toon(edit: and probably a biometric or 58 armoring) in the same amount of time.

 

Nope. Can't say I agree at all

i had no idea there were other FP that lets you farm those pieces over and over without a week reset timer.

 

please be a pal and let me know where they are. I only have full rakata for 2 of my companions.

[CitizenFry]

Why would someone need another rakata chespiece every 30 minutes after they already have one?

 

As a Vanguard tank, the enhancements in the five pieces of the Rakata set available to me kinda suck, as they all have huge amounts of Accuracy. I might want to farm up some of the Guardian tank chest pieces, so I can switch out the huge amounts of Accuracy on my enhancements for huge amounts of Surge.

[Larry_Dallas]

i had no idea there were other FP that lets you farm those pieces over and over without a week reset timer.

 

please be a pal and let me know where they are. I only have full rakata for 2 of my companions.

 

Other flashpoint? No flashpoint, including Lost Island allows you to farm full Rakata for your companions. If Lost Island did, I'd say its difficulty is probably about right for the reward you were getting. Alas, it doesn't. Just gives columi pieces that are not going to be particularly useful to anyone who can complete it and a chestpiece that's more easily gotten elsewhere.

 

 

As a Vanguard tank, the enhancements in the five pieces of the Rakata set available to me kinda suck, as they all have huge amounts of Accuracy. I might want to farm up some of the Guardian tank chest pieces, so I can switch out the huge amounts of Accuracy on my enhancements for huge amounts of Surge.

 

That's at least an actual answer to my question, unlike "Lost Island allows you to farm full rakata for companions." Doesn't really help someone looking for gear with, for instance, adept enhancements though.

 

But yes, for you, I can understand why you would want to farm this over and over.

[oredith]

Other flashpoint? No flashpoint, including Lost Island allows you to farm full Rakata for your companions. If Lost Island did, I'd say its difficulty is probably about right for the reward you were getting. Alas, it doesn't. Just gives columi pieces that are not going to be particularly useful to anyone who can complete it and a chestpiece that's more easily gotten elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

That's at least an actual answer to my question, unlike "Lost Island allows you to farm full rakata for companions." Doesn't really help someone looking for gear with, for instance, adept enhancements though.

 

But yes, for you, I can understand why you would want to farm this over and over.

sometimes, i get annoyed because my sarcasm is completely wasted on the internet.

 

nowhere did i actually suggest that you can farm rakata pieces without cooldown. in fact, what i said was that LI was a FP on par with rakata-level raids which SUPPLEMENT the operations, but that which allows you to farm the instance over and over to get the chest piece.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Trial and error guys, my guild runs lost island 2x a week and we faceroll it every time, we wipe sometimes on the droid or the last boss, but we can do the whole flash point in about an hour.

[JJDrakken]

So what exactly is a "FLASH"point? Your in there and your out. That's how most FLASHpoints work.

 

Even with my group being full Rakata doing this instance we were struggling. By the time we got to the end boss I felt we were soloing Nightmare EV.

 

We had a bounty hunter healer with us and because of the stupid *** nerfs you did to them he had full heat before the first phase.

 

Was this really designed to be a flashpoint that only gives Tionese Crystals and Columi.

 

To be honest I don't know how a PUG would be able to do this.

 

Do you not test this crap before the release?

 

I fully agree.

 

 

JJ