Coming from a sage.... Quit whining, the nerf was needed.

[madmarttigann]

I understand the ************ about our survivability and healing nerf, BUT I believe that these changes were necessary in preparation for rated team games. The DPS buff was a little over the top, but I believe healing either should be left alone or maybe slightly buffed. The reason for this is....

 

With my premade I'm still pretty much healing the EXACT same in 1.2

 

They nerfed my survivability with noble sacrifice and the expertise DPS buff, BUT did they really nerf any of my raw healing numbers other than the cast time of my large heal? No. So what does this tell you? It means that in order for you to heal like you used to, you have to have quality people around you. I used to be able to pump out heals like a champ guard or no guard, didn't really matter. Now it is much more difficult, and I see where people are coming from (especially the solo queue people). I understand that it is going to be much more difficult to solo queue as a healer because lets face it, there are no *quality* guards in PUGS. Even with these changes to things and how much of a pain in the *** solo queueing is going to be, they still need to leave it like this for rated 8v8.

 

 

Now the one thing I would recommend, if they do rebuff healing, is to nerf the support cast around them. In order to make it easier on solo queuers they should consider rebuffing healing, while giving taunts/guards a little nerf. This makes things not rely on your supporting cast as much to still have fun, BUT still makes the TANK/HEALER combo in rateds Killable. I think in the end they will find the right balance of buffing/nerfing with tanks and healers, but for now healers are going to have a tough time on their own. In the end, I think the nerfs are necessary because life was almost laughably easy pre 1.2 with guard on me. I would actually take it off to have more of a challenge.

 

Short summary: If you are with the right people you can still heal just as much, If you are in solo queue I feel a little sympathy for you but it was still a necessary change.

Edited April 13, 2012 by madmarttigann

[madmarttigann]

Love how no one comments on this thread, and only the threads where they get to complain about how bad they are now.

 

To add on to this, and I hate to be harsh, but a lot of people are complaining because being a mediocre healer in this game was very easy to do pre 1.2, and there were A LOT of mediocre/poor healers on my server. With these changes there is definitely going to be a... purging... of healers who really didn't know what they were doing to begin with. I'm guessing that this population makes up 80% of the complaints on this board.

[DarkDruidSS]

Thank you for this. You posted what I have seen and felt playing against Premades so far in 1.2.

 

Protected healers still heal fine.

[LeonkRAV]

People are just bad, a big patch like 1.2 changed the playstyle and the playing field, people need to adapt and adjust, i see no difference in healers at all, you still have your bad and your good. Overall i think the game is balanced for the better, casters arent making a mockery of melee and bad healers arent on par with good. People arent going to be rewarded for chain losing wzs and kill farming will stop once the really big idiots realize their currency rewards are little to nothing. but its pvp, so unlike pve where the NPC side cant complain the QQs will continue til everyone is in their own little world where everyone dies to them but gives them the most unbelievable god like entertaining fight they could ever experience.

[kickinhead]

The nerfs were needed in some ways, but there is still a buff needed in others:

 

- Healing pressure against PuGs that don't play together was needed, I was never running OOM and I could heal up everything very nicely.

 

- Healing spiked DMG or playing against teams that know how to interrupt or stun healers at the right time is still almost impossible. Healers need some sort of big burstheal with a drawback that made it unspammable. Like an instant 5k heal where you had to sac 5k health of your own: does absolutely not heal any pressure, because it just transfers live and doesn't generate it out of nowhere, but makes healing up spikes at least possible.

[PumkinEscobar]

Protected healers are def. fine. Yea maybe the DPS boost was over the top...but after 10 or so warzones and playing with my friend dominating as a sage...I just can't see the uproar. I mean he's a beast, definitely above average MMO'er but regardless, the skills are there ...you just have to learn how to use them.

[madmarttigann]

I've always consider my medpacs to be that instant savior heal, but the beauty of it is that if you have smart teammates... they use those too! I think those are almost the most useful thing to me in PvP. If they gave us some sort of other instant heal they would have to remove medpacs from the game probably.

 

Secondly, sages are probably mad now that salvation can't heal through everything that DPS does lol.

Edited April 13, 2012 by madmarttigann

[mishcleo]

Disagree.

[pathiss]

My sorcerer before the changes was a puggers worst nightmare because I could dish out serious healing numbers and most puggers had no clue how shut me down. Against competent players though in competitive matches, outside of huttball my sorc was a completely and total liability because of how much of a draw on guard he was and due to the fact that he was stupid easy to shut down with interrupts. Post 1.2, there is no reason to continue playing my sorcerer. The sorc changes to 'viable' healing output were grossly heavy handed. I say viable healing output because sorcs lost the ability to cast their biggest heal quickly. Rather than simply fix the bug allowing it to be double cast quickly and see how it played out, the end result was making the class unplayable (as a healer) against anyone even remotely competitive. You literally need a guard chained to your hip following you around to survive, and even then you can still be shut down easily via interrupts.

 

...just an excerpt from another post I made. I play all three healing classes so gave my comments on them as well. Just going to post my sorc review here. (by the way I think my op is OP now and my merc about right).

[Caeliux]

Disagree.

 

Most bads do.

[madmarttigann]

Even though our large heal is MORE interrupt-able there are ways to get around it by juking them with our AoE heal first, fast heal first or something of the sort. This causes a greater awareness of rotating your heals or yes, you will get smoked instantly. Or as the previous poster stated, don't be a bad.

[kickinhead]

Protected healers are def. fine. Yea maybe the DPS boost was over the top...but after 10 or so warzones and playing with my friend dominating as a sage...I just can't see the uproar. I mean he's a beast, definitely above average MMO'er but regardless, the skills are there ...you just have to learn how to use them.

 

Well, DD's and Supportes just need to play together, let's recap some of the things that ppl thought was totally imba about the sage and how playing together can make those imbalances disappear:

 

1) bubble-stun was often considered too good, even if it wasn't nerfed, heres some ways to deal with it: Provoke a bubble on a player by attacking him with light pressure - don't unload your strong combos, just make the opponent think you are. Now that theres a bubble on the target, it can't be targeted by another bubble for 20 sec - Melees switch targets to another player to make the sage waste his Mana and ranged-DD spike down the bubble: Now you have a target free to spike with basically no ability of the sage to heal it in under 1.5 seconds, which is enough to spike the target down even with like 2 good DD's

 

2) AoE-Heal of the Sage: This tree was heavily nerfed mainly by making your mana-management make you have to sac live: This build was very squishy even before, cuz you had no bubble-stun, no forcewave-stun, no reduced CD on Force-speed etc. and now it's basically unplayable, but was the AoE so good? Hell no: With Maras/Sents and Guards/juggs having an AoE that does 5-8k crits every 15 secs or so, standing in a AoE-heal for merely seconds was basically your death-sentence. Also, the AoE-heal was so dependant on positioning, that good interrupts and movement made it nearly useless if you were playing well.

 

3) Stuns/CC in general of the Sage: There are several good utilities to remove conditions like that: if your healers/support is good, they will instantly remove CC from you, if they're bad, get them in your TS and just call out "CC on DarthVaderRules - plz remove!" There is nothing hard about that, just basic stuff in a team-oriented game.

 

4) telewave+telethrow Yes, the combo of getting insta Waves off of your throw was powerful, but was it OP and was there no way to deal with that DMG-output? Nope:

- Interrupt Telethrows, this would've decreased the ability to get the procs faster and therefore reduce the DMG-output.

- Removing or getting teammates to remove Weaken Mind from you: This was an essential part of the high DPS-output, because it made your telethrow tick and therefore proc twice as fast. Removing the DoT would've decreased the DPS significantly.

- Don't ball up together so hard: If you are planting or defusing a bomb, there is actually no need for 5 ppl to defuse at a time, cuz AoE will hit you anyways. There is no need for 4 ppl to hug a ballcarrier as well. There is also no need to ball up in most other situations, so just don't do it and the AoE will deal a lot less DMG.

 

there was actually almost nothing imbalanced before 1.2., there was just stuff that needed to be dealt with as a team or by playing better. I would've changed my classes (Sage and Shadow) with everything else and I would've been fine with it, cuz every class had it's place in a well thought-out 8-man team that knows how to utilize the different classes well. There were a few tweaks that could've been done, but not in the way it was handled in this absolute disaster of a patch.

 

I still play my Sage and even though it is weaker now, I still like it. I don't think the changes were warranted, but I also like thinking about how to play a character more than just whining or quitting a game. The only thing I'm worried about is: If absolute noobs on our server can now play DD's so effectively, how will this look like with 8-man global ranked PvP, where I'd have to play ppl that actually know how to play as a team.

Edited April 13, 2012 by kickinhead

[hlavinkaXVX]

I understand the ************ about our survivability and healing nerf, BUT I believe that these changes were necessary in preparation for rated team games. The DPS buff was a little over the top, but I believe healing either should be left alone or maybe slightly buffed. The reason for this is....

 

With my premade I'm still pretty much healing the EXACT same in 1.2

 

They nerfed my survivability with noble sacrifice and the expertise DPS buff, BUT did they really nerf any of my raw healing numbers other than the cast time of my large heal? No. So what does this tell you? It means that in order for you to heal like you used to, you have to have quality people around you. I used to be able to pump out heals like a champ guard or no guard, didn't really matter. Now it is much more difficult, and I see where people are coming from (especially the solo queue people). I understand that it is going to be much more difficult to solo queue as a healer because lets face it, there are no *quality* guards in PUGS. Even with these changes to things and how much of a pain in the *** solo queueing is going to be, they still need to leave it like this for rated 8v8.

 

 

Now the one thing I would recommend, if they do rebuff healing, is to nerf the support cast around them. In order to make it easier on solo queuers they should consider rebuffing healing, while giving taunts/guards a little nerf. This makes things not rely on your supporting cast as much to still have fun, BUT still makes the TANK/HEALER combo in rateds Killable. I think in the end they will find the right balance of buffing/nerfing with tanks and healers, but for now healers are going to have a tough time on their own. In the end, I think the nerfs are necessary because life was almost laughably easy pre 1.2 with guard on me. I would actually take it off to have more of a challenge.

 

Short summary: If you are with the right people you can still heal just as much, If you are in solo queue I feel a little sympathy for you but it was still a necessary change.

 

 

of course premades make everything easier - FOR EVERYONE... especially playing against non-premades.

 

fact of the matter is, this game doesnt have enough parity in population to make any of this "balance" theory worth a crap. especially when the heavy premade sides will gear faster in the long run and it just becomes a boring grind fest for the less populated/less organized faction (getting less comms, less valor, less creds for losses). not to mention, the balance of classes is just skewed to DPS machinery. whats the point of a healer in a non-premade? not much. how many of the factions with the lesser population play in premades? probably not many.

 

"im protected. im good."

 

no, youre just protected. sitting around and doing rotations with the overall team stat advantages doesnt tell us much at all about the success of the nerf.

 

based on Biowares output of content, the work it takes to put together new material, them being behind the curve of where the game should be, and the rest of this... this game isnt going to last that long. especially in an age of flavor-of-the-month/disposable consumerism.

 

 

the above post is the equivalent of a rich person going up to a poor person and saying, "everything is easy, you idiots. why arent you rich like me? i feel sorry for you, though... sort of. *eats caviar*"

Edited April 15, 2012 by hlavinkaXVX

[exphryl]

Love how no one comments on this thread, and only the threads where they get to complain about how bad they are now.

 

To add on to this, and I hate to be harsh, but a lot of people are complaining because being a mediocre healer in this game was very easy to do pre 1.2, and there were A LOT of mediocre/poor healers on my server. With these changes there is definitely going to be a... purging... of healers who really didn't know what they were doing to begin with. I'm guessing that this population makes up 80% of the complaints on this board.

 

As a DPS, from my experience with Patch healers are still a force in Warzones.

 

People I think are upset they can't tank multiple DPS anymore, while healing their teammates, you know, because that was balanced and all.

 

Merc Healers for me feel as if they took the biggest hit, still a pain but if I fumble my rotation I can still down them where as prepatch if I didn't get lucky crits it was near impossible.

 

When we run our Premade our Healers (one a sorc, another a merc, and an operative at times) still do, like you said, pretty much the same results. They just need to have more personal awareness now where pre-patch they didn't need it.

[rizBRAH]

I agree for the most part and am loving the new patch, wait till you come up against a good sent/mara in half decent gear a few times and we will see how many heals you can pump out like a champ ;x

 

Having huge difficulty dealing with them at the mo.

[Jenrais]

I understand the ************ about our survivability and healing nerf, BUT I believe that these changes were necessary in preparation for rated team games. The DPS buff was a little over the top, but I believe healing either should be left alone or maybe slightly buffed. The reason for this is....

 

With my premade I'm still pretty much healing the EXACT same in 1.2

 

They nerfed my survivability with noble sacrifice and the expertise DPS buff, BUT did they really nerf any of my raw healing numbers other than the cast time of my large heal? No. So what does this tell you? It means that in order for you to heal like you used to, you have to have quality people around you. I used to be able to pump out heals like a champ guard or no guard, didn't really matter. Now it is much more difficult, and I see where people are coming from (especially the solo queue people). I understand that it is going to be much more difficult to solo queue as a healer because lets face it, there are no *quality* guards in PUGS. Even with these changes to things and how much of a pain in the *** solo queueing is going to be, they still need to leave it like this for rated 8v8.

 

 

Now the one thing I would recommend, if they do rebuff healing, is to nerf the support cast around them. In order to make it easier on solo queuers they should consider rebuffing healing, while giving taunts/guards a little nerf. This makes things not rely on your supporting cast as much to still have fun, BUT still makes the TANK/HEALER combo in rateds Killable. I think in the end they will find the right balance of buffing/nerfing with tanks and healers, but for now healers are going to have a tough time on their own. In the end, I think the nerfs are necessary because life was almost laughably easy pre 1.2 with guard on me. I would actually take it off to have more of a challenge.

 

Short summary: If you are with the right people you can still heal just as much, If you are in solo queue I feel a little sympathy for you but it was still a necessary change.

 

So this post is telling me your saying. Our class is terrible unless we have an army with us.

 

I'm ok with the consumption nerf and what not. The Double dip DI had to be removed

 

But DI taking a year to cast means we die to competant players. Try fighting a competant marauder/sentinel with the BM or war hero gear(doubtful anyone has it though) and they will interrupt every heal untill your too low to recover from.

[Boshlord]

My only complaint is now I can't even get big heals off on most players because of damage spikes (being uniturrupted) because people die in 4 seconds its bubble shield 1.5 second gcd instant cast HOT 1.5 gcd and then 2.2 second cast = tareget I'm healing is dead even in 1 v 1... this is when playing with battlemasters on my team. Heals are virtually useless when someones dps can negate them + do 100% more damage.

[Arayla]

Perhaps you would have a point that healers were overpowered against pugs, if rateds where not right around the corner, but the fact is this game should not be balancing around what is best for pugs if they want to add rated content. Against good players who know what they're doing your team will not save you, and that was pre 1.2, now your a hindrance to your team if your a healer.

 

Everything added in this patch in some way makes life as a healer more difficult, from adding target to target frames, to longer cast times, to lower survivability, shorter interrupt timers, decreased efficiency on heals, increased damage output.

[Boshlord]

Perhaps you would have a point that healers were overpowered against pugs, if rateds where not right around the corner, but the fact is this game should not be balancing around what is best for pugs if they want to add rated content. Against good players who know what they're doing your team will not save you, and that was pre 1.2, now your a hindrance to your team if your a healer.

 

Everything added in this patch in some way makes life as a healer more difficult, from adding target to target frames, to longer cast times, to lower survivability, shorter interrupt timers, decreased efficiency on heals, increased damage output.

 

^^^^ this and a million times more yes... the fact that its better to run 8 dps now is a disheartening fact especially for me playing a healing sorc and a tank jugger its not right to no longer have a place in pvp...

[farfulnugen]

I have rarely seen any sage say that changes were not needed. Double dip needed to be removed. The problem is, the wrong changes were made and it has made sage healing useless in pvp against competitive teams. In an environment like rated warzones, this will become even more apparent.

 

Obviously, you play with premades or people who know what they are doing vs. those who don't.

 

So try an experiment. Instead of playing with your premade....try playing against your premade. Then come on here and tell us it's fine. I still won't believe you but at least you'll have a different experience.

[viLe-]

If you're still healing the same as before, you're playing with a premade against bads.

 

Against a decent team you're nothing but a liability to your team since sages are extremely easy to shut down and kill after 1.2, and it was pretty easy already before...

[Boshlord]

I have rarely seen any sage say that changes were not needed. Double dip needed to be removed. The problem is, the wrong changes were made and it has made sage healing useless in pvp against competitive teams. In an environment like rated warzones, this will become even more apparent.

 

Obviously, you play with premades or people who know what they are doing vs. those who don't.

 

So try an experiment. Instead of playing with your premade....try playing against your premade. Then come on here and tell us it's fine. I still won't believe you but at least you'll have a different experience.

 

Exactly nerfs were needed these nerfs were overkill. A simple nerfing the free consumption + reducing healing done by 5% would do. Cutting a classes healing by 1/3 peobably a little overkill and when rated starts good luck finding competitive healers on 90% or teams because it will be 8 dps vs 8 dps if something doesn't give

[TheNegotiator]

It sounds like you just want to discriminate against people who are not part of a gang. Are you better than them or something?

[dunkelhaar]

Well, there was no problem with the sorc healer nerf. The problem was the Wrath Nerf. And because of the wrath nerf (and i tried several builds) I switched to sorc healer because I felt squishy (marauder dmg boost was way over the top) and no I feel kinda fine again.

 

Actually your post show the real problem. Everybody talked about the healing nerf which is annoying but healing still works. The sorc nerf killed the hybrid spec. Well you can still go hybrid but you lack the wrath proc usage for chain lightning. I didnt understand why they did this because other classes performed the same dmg wise.

Edited April 15, 2012 by dunkelhaar