The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[NobleRogue]

I thought this was just some glitch, so I queued, again, we got rolled again and I got nothing, again. And I mean nothing. So once more into the breach and still nada. That was enough. I stopped queuing and went questing.

 

I hope this is just some bug. If it's not there's going to be a severe dropoff of people queuing for pvp.

 

Yep I had a similar experience. Mind you I'm in full champion with only 2 pieces of battlemaster gear because I got 2 battlemaster comms in the month since I hit the valor rank and all the other comms I had to buy despite doing the pvp dailies every morning.

 

At the very least 10 lost warzones meant armaments quest done. Now we don't even have that.

 

Smart move for any solo pvpers is if you get into a wz in-progress and you're on the losing team? Quit out the moment you step in and not waste the 5-20 mins you'll never get back.

 

I'm all for grinding gear but some progression has to translate out from the time spent. Sad to say, it's just not worth the effort anymore.

[looneybinjim]

the penalties for losing now really are too severe with 1.2. its causing people to quit at the first sign of a loss which has basically put the game back 2 months or so. they had the problem solved, why did they feel the need to change it yet again?

 

anyway ive given this issue some thought today and ive come up with a system that i personally believe would cover all bases.

 

there should be a max value for what you can gain from every warzone - comms, valour, credits and experiance

 

id say something along the lines of

 

100 comms

3.5k valour

4k credits (scales with level - 4k at 50)

 

if you get less than 4 medals (ie you join late) you will get 50% of the max total of the rewards

 

5 medals - 62.5%

6 medals - 75%

7 medals - 87.5%

8 medals - 100%

 

this means your guaranteed a decent return win or lose, which means less people will be inclined to leave at the first sign of a loss

 

now, to incentivise trying to win, my idea is simple, implement commendations that you can gain only by winning, of which several are required for each piece of armour as well as the regular comms.

 

maybe something along the lines of 5 for the cheaper pieces up to 10 for the more expensive pieces, these tokens could also be given as part of the daily quest rewards.

 

the important thing here is to give people a reason to stay in the game even if it is losing.

Edited April 13, 2012 by looneybinjim

[Fexhie]

It is very simple, under geared people lose allot. So pre patch you just kept trying and plugging away for better gear. It was slow but you got comms and valor each time so it was worth it.

 

If you can't win now and aren't getting anything for trying.... you will never get better gear. So the lose to lose cycle will be endless for some people. They can and will give up and quit and I don't blame them.

 

Again. Recruit gear is awesome, go get some. You will probably be at a disadvantage to most people who have been pvp'n for months. But you will still be able to perform adequately. If not then it is not a gear issue. Every match is not a super pre made group you need to be super geared for.

[Varicite]

the penalties for losing now really are too severe with 1.2. its causing people to quit at the first sign of a loss which has basically put the game back 2 months or so. they had the problem solved, why did they feel the need to change it yet again?

 

anyway ive given this issue some thought today and ive come up with a system that i personally believe would cover all bases.

 

there should be a max value for what you can gain from every warzone - comms, valour, credits and experiance

 

id say something along the lines of

 

100 comms

3.5k valour

4k credits (scales with level - 4k at 50)

 

if you get less than 4 medals (ie you join late) you will get 50% of the max total of the rewards

 

5 medals - 62.5%

6 medals - 75%

7 medals - 87.5%

8 medals - 100%

 

this means your guaranteed a decent return win or lose, which means less people will be inclined to leave at the first sign of a loss

 

now, to incentivise trying to win, my idea is simple, implement commendations that you can gain only by winning, of which several are required for each piece of armour as well as the regular comms.

 

maybe something along the lines of 5 for the cheaper pieces up to 10 for the more expensive pieces, these tokens could also be given as part of the daily quest rewards.

 

the important thing here is to give people a reason to stay in the game even if it is losing.

 

I don't like this system. Why should afk'ing or basically not doing anything at all (less than 4 medals) still get you half the MAX total rewards?

 

This was the problem in the first place, and I'm assuming the reason BW decided to implement stiffer penalties.

[NobleRogue]

GIving the entire game free stuff b/c there are server population imbalances is not the answer, and I hoped they learned their lesson. The 4 medal super rewards thing really ticked me off and I almost quit from it. IMO it felt like I woke up one day and the entire game was being exploited to give everyone pvp rank. I was the 2nd person on my side to get battlemaster on shadowlands. There was maybe 10 to 15 of us on republic when that patch hit. 2 days after patch there was triple that number. The game had not even been out 2 months and they decided to "give" away battlemaster rank. All you had to do was go into a wz and afk for five minutes while your team lost.

 

I'm all for losing team getting 0 valor. I would actually be happy about that so long as you got commendations for your effort so that you can afford better gear.

 

If all the players were in war hero gear and the same players that sucked in crummy gear STILL failed and got rolled I would be ok with that.

 

Stick a bad group in full war hero against a team of seasoned veterens in recruit gear I guarantee that gear will make up for poor gameplay

 

So let's take that out of the equation so that players (even the bad ones) will keep playing the game.

[Hellsworn]

Here's my issue.

 

Regardless of Skill, gear, bleh bleh bleh. PvP IMO, is intended to be an aspect of the game aside from PvE, for those who enjoy this type of game play environment. Prior to patch 1.2, if you put in effort, even with a loss you felt decently rewarded for YOUR contributions if you were able to grind out some medals. I averaged 7-10 with a loss or win prior to 1.2 at the level 50 bracket. 5-9 At the lower levels.

 

So even when we had complete Hardtards on my team, there was still reason to stay due to my own hard work in said game.

 

So fastforward to yesterday. I re-rolled, to check the new legacy etc.... Made level 15 in about 3 hours as a Jedi Guardian. Qued for matches, fully expecting to lose due to 5-1 Imp vs Pub ratio Numbers (not confirmed), and we did just that lose. BUT, heres the big BUT. I only obtained 5 badges, and after the loss I received 0......xp.....0....coms.....0 credits.....

 

aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh wth?

 

So I que Again, with the same results. not sure if this is the new system or just a bug but this will be the straw that broke the camels back for me. I am not hardcore by any means, and I don't QQ about winning or losing, nor do I join the give me free gear Whannnnnnnnhbulance Train.

 

BUt I do have Major issues with wasting hours of my life for 0 xp, 0 reward. So now I forced to play the Game tailored to a PvE track, or I roll the dice and hope I don't get a scrub team for WZ's.

 

I respectfully Request to play the game the way I want to, without fear of wasting my time. ONe can Dream right?

[Fexhie]

Recruit gear is not that bad, if you think it is than you are wrong. If you put 8 great players in recruit and 8 of the better bad players in war hero, the recruits are going to roll them. They understand how to play the game where as the other guys do not. It is just how it is bud. THe only problem with recruit is that you can not exchange enhancements, although there recruit pieces that have enhancements I wouldnt mind using in my battlemaster gear. Based on the stats of the gear, the gloves for example have crit/surge/expertise, those are perfect stats. My battlemaster gloves currently have a power/surge mod from columi in them.

 

I know players on my server in battlemaster gear who are absolutely horrible players. 1 of them is in my guild. Guy is a terrible player, he refused to upgrade his gear untill he was a battlemaster. I would leave matches with him in them. He had 1100 hp...he was wearing lvl 41 green implants. not to mention blue lvl 35 chest. I sent him stuff in the mail to upgrade himself b/c I was tired of carrying him through matches. It got returned to me. You see I wrongly assumed it was his gear. But now he has full battlemaster and his stats per game have barely shown any improvement. last match he was in I did more damage than he did and I am a healer. Same class, but he is dps. This is just 1 example in a huge list of players on my server with the same mentality.

 

Also every alt i have got to fifty has had a gear disadvantage but still managed to get top damage or medals or healing in a warzone on its first day of being fifty.

[AmorphousCro]

multiple problems with the new reward/instance kill system that should have been spotted on PTS.

 

Civil War for example.

 

lets say you start 5v8. you can harass the middle, maybe take your side, but with limited ability to take the middle, you lose it eventually and the turrets start ticking 2/1. If this persists your score is at a substantial deficit. player 6 arrives, sees it as a loss, and just drops. no point in staying for 20 comms. a new player 6 and 7 show up, see the steamroll, and leave. you'll continue to play it for a few more minutes and player 4 and 5 ditch the instance. no point in wasting more time for 20 comms.

 

this happened yesterday. 3 people standing on one side trying to defend or take back a single turret. the only incentive for me was the 4 medals i received defending. it was less painful to let them take turret 3, and stand in the speeder dropoff to run the clock out fast.

 

the instance kill feature should be reinstated, and comms should be decent win or lose. pugs don't stand a chance at earning comms at a rate which will progress them. veteran pvpers are also punished by having newbies in pugs, which give them reason to ditch if they don't see enough familiar names.

[DarkAltar]

Everyone is saying your asking for something for nothing. No one is doing that but there are no examples. I'll give you a few.

 

1st 1.2 PvP match civil war. My guildie and his wife takes the left turret from the Imp side. Rest goes center. We cap the center turret, I wan't the guy capping I was defending him. Then we start getting over run cause we were over ran being short a full ops group I call for help to have my biddies wife tell me he went afk. we fight our asses of and keep the turret as long as we can. After that we constantly try to take another turret but we are under maned. I end up with 49 kills 9 medals and 31 coms. My buddy that was afk for most of the match had 3 kills 12 medals and got 80 coms.

 

In a later match in void star, We were faceing a premade in full BM gear while most of us had the nerfed champ gear. I myself had some BM as I'm a real one with over 60 valor and had to work to get mine. we got stomped but still I had the top medal count on both sides with 16 medals and only got 51 coms.

 

I don't see how you think this is even remotely fair I out performed everyone on both teams and got shafted royally. If you want to reward thouse doing objectives fine all for that but just because your on the loseing side doesn't mean they suck. I think a better system would be to reward for individual performance. As an example they shoudl be no extra coms or credits for winning or loseing but should instead be awarded for that individuals performance. Just my opinion. you are more and welcome to troll it if you like.

[Shlamorel]

LOL. I really do feel bad for you.

 

Could you explain?

[Doxxs]

For me PvP was a way to get credits and get decent gear.

 

I am by no means a serious PvPer

 

I never expect the farm when losing but I did get just enough to keep me interested in PvP.

 

Now with diminished compensation for WZs there really isn't any reason to que up.

 

Maybe the intent was to block casual PvPers I dunno.

 

As is now you took a slightly irritating but necessary activity and made it too irritating to engage in.

[Fexhie]

I have yet to see any of these 0 matches. Either I am doing something right or there is a bug out there. Seems like most of you saying your getting all these zero's are in games where your team is outnumbered. Maybe there is a bug related to warzones not shutting down anymore. I was in maybe 2 matches rep on rep that we had less people but still came out of it wtih 40 medals. I don't know if I got valor/credits or whatever, I mainly look at coms since the patch. But I don't remember seeing any 0's and you would think I would notice something like that. Hopefully it is a bugged and it will get fixed. 0 of everything for being in a match seems excessive. Unless you just don't do anything.

[NobleRogue]

I know players on my server in battlemaster gear who are absolutely horrible players. 1 of them is in my guild. Guy is a terrible player, he refused to upgrade his gear untill he was a battlemaster. I would leave matches with him in them. He had 1100 hp...he was wearing lvl 41 green implants. not to mention blue lvl 35 chest. I sent him stuff in the mail to upgrade himself b/c I was tired of carrying him through matches. It got returned to me. You see I wrongly assumed it was his gear. But now he has full battlemaster and his stats per game have barely shown any improvement. last match he was in I did more damage than he did and I am a healer. Same class, but he is dps. This is just 1 example in a huge list of players on my server with the same mentality.

 

Also every alt i have got to fifty has had a gear disadvantage but still managed to get top damage or medals or healing in a warzone on its first day of being fifty.

 

recruit gear is not that bad does not validate the argument that players stuck in bad groups should continue to be penalized for sticking it out along with not having any ability to upgrade their existing gear.

 

case and point. I upgrade at every opportunity, I got my implants and earpiece the moment I hit BM. Got all the datacrons including the +10 to all stats. I always focus on the objective and contribute.

 

Yesterday, I played 25 wz and got 1 win. Got at least 3 medals each one except for 4 that was already in progress. I think it was the first day I couldn't finish my daily for 3 wins. There is something wrong with that.

[Fexhie]

Everyone is saying your asking for something for nothing. No one is doing that but there are no examples. I'll give you a few.

 

1st 1.2 PvP match civil war. My guildie and his wife takes the left turret from the Imp side. Rest goes center. We cap the center turret, I wan't the guy capping I was defending him. Then we start getting over run cause we were over ran being short a full ops group I call for help to have my biddies wife tell me he went afk. we fight our asses of and keep the turret as long as we can. After that we constantly try to take another turret but we are under maned. I end up with 49 kills 9 medals and 31 coms. My buddy that was afk for most of the match had 3 kills 12 medals and got 80 coms.

 

In a later match in void star, We were faceing a premade in full BM gear while most of us had the nerfed champ gear. I myself had some BM as I'm a real one with over 60 valor and had to work to get mine. we got stomped but still I had the top medal count on both sides with 16 medals and only got 51 coms.

 

I don't see how you think this is even remotely fair I out performed everyone on both teams and got shafted royally. If you want to reward thouse doing objectives fine all for that but just because your on the loseing side doesn't mean they suck. I think a better system would be to reward for individual performance. As an example they shoudl be no extra coms or credits for winning or loseing but should instead be awarded for that individuals performance. Just my opinion. you are more and welcome to troll it if you like.

 

Problem is you still lost. THeir premade was better than yours, it happens. 51 medals for losing was probably a good bit more than what most of your team mates got.

[Magyarian]

I would like to put in my thoughts on the new War zone PVP first no matter whether you agree or dsagree be logical not abusive and rude no one cares about your thoughts if your just being rude make a point show your logic of why you believe the way you do. lol im sure ill get some feed back on that but anyway to the point : I am a handy capped player so I Don't do real good in most the warzones but I give t the best shot I can I agree with someone that said it s a catch 22 I feel bad if I don't do a good job for my team but non the less I'm going to keep on trying and keep learning tricks it may take me longer than others but well that is what it takes some players are going to be quitting warzones because there going to loose and some are not going to enter because they can't win but I say just keep trying guys there are no perfect fixes we need to live with what we got. the guys at SWTOR are doing there best, to be fair but its impossible for a real good PVPer and a bad PVPer that really trys to go by the same rules and it be fair to both its life we all can't be rich some of us has to be poor so do the poor give up and starve no we keep working so I say we don't complain just get better and at the same time the good players shouldn't belittle a bad player that is trying (leechers not included)

 

First, good for you that you play your best and try to improve each time, truly.

 

Second, 1 so-called baddie on a team did not make the difference pre-patch in most cases. We have all started with no gear and a poor understanding of how to play.

 

Third, as long as you were not AFK or just sitting and watching, only the children playing would open their yaps. Everyone with a clue knows not everyone can be LEET. If you help, most see it.

 

Last, not quitting, and having some incentive to not quit is the common thread here.

 

Honestly, I would give someone like you my battle tokens just for your efforts because I would at least have people playing who would not quit a match.

[Y-n-T]

Really if your a good player and you rock in pvp its easy for you to go in and win and your going to own people in good gear. its the people that aren't good and struggle to get better that its hard and will get discuridged so why not give them something for there efforts bottom line if a person goes in and continues to try but fails all the time there going to quit pvping theres just no point there are some that will never be good at pvp does that mean they should not be allowed to pvp or get oooo for tring. I totally agree that leachers get 0 and the winners get bigger rewards but even if you get no medals i don't think anyone should go in and get nothing again unless your leaching you have to try to do the best you can for your team

[Ssfbistimg]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

And you sir are the 99% that has to be given a Gear advantage over the opposition just cause you cant handle even competition. Personally I despise rolling through someone every time because my gear says I'm suppose to. So in actuality you are the group who doesn't want to work for any rewards and just want to be handed even more powerful gear to give u an even bigger advantage. Well I say F that. Im not the best PVP nor am I the worst, but I want to enjoy pvp and It's not enjoyable smashing the other team because my gear is better nor is it fun getting smashed because our gear is worst.

 

Juyo Server

Moonfrye 66 Valor

Jenna'syyde 72 Valor

[Spuck]

First, good for you that you play your best and try to improve each time, truly.

 

Second, 1 so-called baddie on a team did not make the difference pre-patch in most cases. We have all started with no gear and a poor understanding of how to play.

 

Third, as long as you were not AFK or just sitting and watching, only the children playing would open their yaps. Everyone with a clue knows not everyone can be LEET. If you help, most see it.

 

Last, not quitting, and having some incentive to not quit is the common thread here.

 

Honestly, I would give someone like you my battle tokens just for your efforts because I would at least have people playing who would not quit a match.

 

I can 2nd that. I'm not "leet". But I do my best in every match. I only leave when internet disconnects, game disconnects, or rl gets in the way. Many matches I would be willing to hand over all my winnings if other players would just stay and FIGHT... not leave and not stay and sit.

[Y-n-T]

First, good for you that you play your best and try to improve each time, truly.

 

Second, 1 so-called baddie on a team did not make the difference pre-patch in most cases. We have all started with no gear and a poor understanding of how to play.

 

Third, as long as you were not AFK or just sitting and watching, only the children playing would open their yaps. Everyone with a clue knows not everyone can be LEET. If you help, most see it.

 

Last, not quitting, and having some incentive to not quit is the common thread here.

 

Honestly, I would give someone like you my battle tokens just for your efforts because I would at least have people playing who would not quit a match.

 

thank you respect right back at u

[Fexhie]

recruit gear is not that bad does not validate the argument that players stuck in bad groups should continue to be penalized for sticking it out along with not having any ability to upgrade their existing gear.

 

case and point. I upgrade at every opportunity, I got my implants and earpiece the moment I hit BM. Got all the datacrons including the +10 to all stats. I always focus on the objective and contribute.

 

Yesterday, I played 25 wz and got 1 win. Got at least 3 medals each one except for 4 that was already in progress. I think it was the first day I couldn't finish my daily for 3 wins. There is something wrong with that.

 

That is a lot of losses man. And I understand what not being able to finish a daily is like. I come from a very very badly populated rep server. I would lose 40 or more of 50 matches a day and most of the ones I won would not count b/c of some bug.

 

I still however don't think you should get the same or near same rewards as you do for winning. Sorry but there needs to be an incentive to win. I had some of the best pvp matches I have had in 2 months yesterday b/c people were actually trying. Give everyone same rewards again and you just take that away.

 

Maybe they will add cross server pops so that the servers with bad imp players and bad rep players can actually have a chance to play against each other. And the good players have a chance to play against non premade ****** mofos.

[VarrickCW]

I agree it is way too severe. I went from loving pvp (I played and had fun, didnt matter if I lost, I still at least got some reward (just not as much)). Now.. I often get NOTHING.

[Varicite]

That is a lot of losses man. And I understand what not being able to finish a daily is like. I come from a very very badly populated rep server. I would lose 40 or more of 50 matches a day and most of the ones I won would not count b/c of some bug.

 

I still however don't think you should get the same or near same rewards as you do for winning. Sorry but there needs to be an incentive to win. I had some of the best pvp matches I have had in 2 months yesterday b/c people were actually trying. Give everyone same rewards again and you just take that away.

 

Maybe they will add cross server pops so that the servers with bad imp players and bad rep players can actually have a chance to play against each other. And the good players have a chance to play against non premade ****** mofos.

 

I agree wholeheartedly w/ this sentiment.

 

It's not that I don't think losers should get any reward, but it shouldn't be comparable to winning in any regard. If you play well and your team lost, and you walk away w/ half of what the winners got... that's perfectly fair, imo. Win next time.

 

The matches starting unevenly is an entirely separate issue.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Varicite

[hopbounce]

Agreed with Op. They are correct, and btw, all you crazy people saying we're the 99%...can you actually think of what you're saying? Being the 99% is hardly an insult...

[Gowee]

Some losses are currently reporting zero rewards. Ive also reported bugs on them not counted towards my armaments as well. I went into one full match and earned 0 honor, xp, valor, and credits. Im sure this is actually a bug and not meant to be. but currently this has been the case.

 

I can confirm that.

Have only had chance to play for a few hours. 5 rounds of Hutball. 2 of them my team lost. I was "lucky" to make 2 goals but we lost. And the "reward" was ZERO, no xp, no credits, no comms. I really hope that is a bug and not intended.

[SinnedQWERTY]

Winning or losing --- I always played out the WZ. Well, I used to...

 

I could always keep doing my part, giving my best and getting an (okish) reward. Even seen a few matches that got turned around as others also kept trying. It was worth it to keep trying... in the end I got a reward for the time spend and at least part of that was linked to my own performance.

 

Also, these days I don't have as much time to play as I would like, so, my time in game is kinda precious (to me that is).

 

*shrug* Guess what I'm going to start doing now Bioware...

 

Sorry but I'm not gonna waste 10-20mins on this system that punishes people extra -- for bad match ups, even if they keep trying. So its time to start leaving matches...

 

My time is better spend on other things in game (or out of). Hope you people are working really hard on more PVE stuff, because you just shot casual pvp in the head for me.