The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[DropbearSW]

The new PVP Medals system is completely broken.

 

I had 9 medals last match, and we lost, so i got 40 commendations...

 

If we had won, that would have been 100..

 

They punish the losing team too much, to an extent that there is NO point in hanging around if you know you're not going to win...

 

The winners get to gear up, leaving the losers behind, rinse, repeat.. Soon on ever server you're going to get one faction completely dominant in terms of gear..

 

The system is entirely broken.

 

 

You think it was bad with people leaving OPS < 1.2. It's going to be a lot worse now.

 

CORRECT THIS IMMEDIATELY, BIOWARE.

[UnlawfulCarnal]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

[Jeopardydd]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

i understand what you are saying, but the way it is now, with bad armor you will usually lose. with little to no rewards for losing, you cannot get good armor.

 

it's a giant catch-22.

 

it's even worse if you are on the non-dominant faction and you also have to deal with 1/2 filled teams, people quiting like crazy, etc.

 

whether you like the idea in theory or not, this does not and will not work in practice.

 

btw, your post would make a lot more sense if it had less to do with gear and faction disparities and more about skill.

[Coyotecalls]

For there to be PVP there has to be a reason for us to do it and as the game stands it is WAY to much effort to PVP. Melee classes cut through caster classes like they are made of paper, troopers still mow down half the battle field before they die, scoundrel's still stunlock you and kill you before you can do anything, sage shields are still a complete joke, Sorcs got ****ed over horribly by the changed to force lightning, unless you are a bounty hunter/Commando or a Knight/Warrior there is ZERO reason to play because you will just insta-die.

[OGsam]

The new system is a joke, speak out against it. WTB revert to 1.1.5

 

This has caused every game to become a TDM zerg and has made WZ leaving 50 times more frequent.

 

You lose if you don't have BM gear, yet losing will give you between nothing and almost nothing, yet you need something to buy BM gear, worst catch-22 ever.

[davidpop]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

How does people on servers there the game always starts 5v8 etc. fail?

[Ceasaigh]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

Bro

 

No one wants to be rewarded for losing and preforming badly. No one is saying that. But you assume that all things are equal in SWTOR PvP land. That everyone has the same gear and expertise and no one has the advantage.

 

Fact is there is a severe faction imbalance across multiple servers. One side is simply dominated by the other. This leaves one side with a easy gear grind and the other with a very hard gear grind.

 

With the old system even if you lost and preformed well (got your 4 medals) you got enough WZ comms to make it worth your while. You could at least compete in the gear grind with those who were winning.

 

Now there is no way. Players who lose more than half of there matches are looking at well over 520+ hours to get a War Hero set. You break that down it equates to roughly 6 months or more of grinding WZ 6 hours a day. Players who win over half there matches are looking at 450+ hours or about 5 months of grinding 6 hours a day.

 

Sorry but I didn't sign up for a Korean grind fest MMO. I like gear progression and you need to work for it but this is a bit excessive.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ceasaigh

[voidsurvivor]

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

Maybe you should consider then how many people will unsub, when they lose game after game because of the gear gap. Few people find it fun to get farmed for 94 credits per match.

 

Then again, what can you expect from the pvp team that considers kill trading a form of legitimate pvp.

[AdmiralOnasi]

 

The winners get to gear up, leaving the losers behind, rinse, repeat.. Soon on ever server you're going to get one faction completely dominant in terms of gear..

 

 

This is what happened after patch day on Ilum back in January on my server. The imps, who outnumber pubs almost 3:1 farmed our base all day, got battlemaster, and started gearing well before most of the Republic players could get to valor 60. The end result was about a month where Republic got absolutely steamrolled in almost every warzone because we were so badly outgeared, and were still in the process of grinding it out to 60 to start gearing up.

 

The same thing is going to happen here if something isn't done. AND warzone quitting is going to become an even bigger problem that it already is. I'm sure people will begin quitting before the game even starts if they see more than one teammate with <14k HP.

[HelinCarnate]

If I end up getting put in a losing match while we are outnumbered, I will leave. Getting medals is easy when you have even teams, but very difficult when you are 5vs8. 1 medal is 0 rewards for a loss. 2-4 gets you around 20 commendations. Not worth the effort to stick around. Mind you, before this change I would be the last person in the match at the end of the 120 seconds fighting it out 1vs8.

 

Considering the cost for rated gear is now 3x higher than previously anticipated combined with lower rewards it may not even be worth my time to keep paying for a sub.

Edited April 13, 2012 by HelinCarnate

[Coyotecalls]

I'm writing this post while "Playing" and by playing I mean gettign swarmed by republic forces playing mostly troopers and jedi who are killing my team as soon as they jump off the spawn point in Voidstar. So, yeah, canceling my account. **** you bioware.

[akpavker]

Bro

 

No one wants to be rewarded for losing and preforming badly. No one is saying that. But you assume that all things are equal in SWTOR PvP land. That everyone has the same gear and expertise and no one has the advantage.

 

Fact is there is a severe faction imbalance across multiple servers. One side is simply dominated by the other. This leaves one side with a easy gear grind and the other with a very hard gear grind.

 

With the old system even if you lost and preformed well (got your 4 medals) you got enough WZ comms to make it worth your while. You could at least compete in the gear grind with those who were winning.

 

Now there is no way. Players who lose more than half of there matches are looking at well over 520+ hours to get a War Hero set. You break that down it equates to roughly 6 months or more of grinding WZ 6 hours a day. Players who win over half there matches are looking at 450+ hours or about 5 months of grinding 6 hours a day.

 

Sorry but I didn't sign up for a Korean grind fest MMO. I like gear progression and you need to work for it but this is a bit excessive.

 

agreed

 

it was fine befor even if you lost it was worth while being in a WZ.now you must win to get any decent com's and valor which will leave the lesser geared people in the game not wanting to do WZ's due to the fact that their Continuously geting *** spanked buy better geared players and it is so hard to gear up or even reach BM rank.there for possibly resulting in them quiting the game.

 

boiware+starwars=FAIL

[xoaxie]

I have absolutly no problem with dropping out of losing WZ's now. There is no benefit in playing out a losing pug now. Win or lose you should get rewarded for playing well. Topping almost every parse and recieving the most medals in the match doesnt count for dirt now.

[EndlessObsession]

Everyone knows the comms and credit rewards for losing are WAY too little. The only people who don't want it fixed are the people on the zerg faction (mostly empire) who NEED there to be a gear disparity to compete. The good players on the zerg faction were happy in 1.1.5 and enjoyed the competitive games that occurred with equally geared/skilled players. Edited April 15, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[Sabredance]

Everyone knows the comms and credit rewards for losing are WAY too little.

 

You think therefore everybody knows!

Quite an egocentric point of view.

I think its fine and i finish losing Warzones.

Do you have a better idea how to encourage people to play to win ?

I am listening.

 

The only people who don't want it fixed are the people on the zerg faction (mostly empire) who NEED there to be a gear disparity to compete.

 

Republic and lower population faction.

 

The good players on the zerg faction were happy in 1.1.5 and enjoyed the competitive games that occurred with equally geared/skilled players.

 

The rich and the dedicated crafter rule now.

I am neither of those.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Notannos
replies to removed posts

[bdurb]

This patch has killed PVP on our server (Telos Restoration Project). You can't convince any of the 50s on Rep side to Q up anymore because the other side is so strong that we're getting spawn camped on nearly every map, and getting absolutely no rewards for putting up with the huge imbalance. So the few games that did pop today, about 1 1/2 hours apart each time, our side only had 5-6 people against their 8, which made it worse.

[xxdragonragexx]

The 1.15 system gives too much reward for losing.

No one even bothers to win after getting 4 medals.

The losing player gets 80 medals while the winning players gets 100. How is that even a good system? The system right now is a good change.

[JMCH]

The 1.15 system gives too much reward for losing.

No one even bothers to win after getting 4 medals.

The losing player gets 80 medals while the winning players gets 100. How is that even a good system? The system right now is a good change.

You know... there's Valor, too.

 

WZ comms are a currency, it initially was intended to buy PvP consumables, which you have to have to be on par with "better" players.

 

If you can't even buy medpacs or stims, how do you think you'll buy your BM armor, let alone WH now with the same currency?

Edited April 13, 2012 by JMCH

[UncleOst]

Uh !

The intellligence card!

Base of every intelligent discussion.

His post was legit.You don´t have to agree.

 

You don´t read much in the forum do you?

 

How can someone dare to have a different opinion!

 

You think therefore everybody knows!

Quite an egocentric point of view.

I think its fine and i finish losing Warzones.

Do you have a better idea how to encourage people to play to win ?

I am listening.

 

 

 

 

Ok forum patrol.

What's your honest take on 1.2 pvp.

I'll bet you never even played one yet, simply because you say it's fine.

You like joining a team and receiving less rewards then before? At least If your team lost before 1.2, and you did well, You would be rewarded well for your performace.[ in case you failed to notice]

 

^^^ Who hired this sabredance comedian guy.

[xxdragonragexx]

You know... there's Valor, too.

 

WZ comms are a currency, it initially was intended to buy PvP consumables, which you have to have to be on par with "better" players.

 

If you can't even buy medpacs or stims, how do you think you'll buy your BM armor, let alone WH now with the same currency?

 

Believe whatever you want to believe. Commendations are currency for everything. Not just consumables.

 

There is no penalty for losing a warzone. In fact, 40 commendation reward is still too much. It should have been 30.

[Khirsah]

I couldn't care less about the rewards of winning/losing any warzone. I just want to have a good game! I play a pve based tank spec in almost full BM tank gear. I had a healer that i grouped with and we weren't an AMAZING team, but we did pretty well providing one of us didn't run away from the other chasing an imp. It was mutually beneficial. With the new patch, my healer cannot survive 3 or more people on him while guarded, me taunting my butt of, and ccing at every opportunity. Did healers get nerfed hardcore? Was it tanks that got shafted?

 

While looking at my character sheet, i check out my expertise... a whopping 972! This however breaks down to...

19.40% damage increase

16.25% damage resistance

10.67% healing increase

 

This tells me that healers got the short stick this patch, so why run a warzone with a healer? A dps in equal gear, skill, class, yada yada will be 10% stronger than a healer in the same gear.

 

My next issue goes back to the fact that I play a pve specced tank in BM tank gear. Whenever I was in a huttball match everyone knew to give me the ball and heal the crap outta me. Today, the same thing happened... but i died with only 3 people attacking me. I used all my cooldowns, medpacks, adrenals, ccs, storm... everything I had, but these 2 people just melted me. I have 21k health in a warzone with 972 expertise, if I can't tank, who could? How am i supposed to guard a healer when i melt so easily?

 

With 1.2, I feel that everyone should roll a dps and just play a typical Call of Duty team deathmatch in every warzone and you will have a much better chance of winning than ever using a strategy. This patch is all about zerging everyone down and the defenders needing to wait 30 seconds before the door comes down, with that time, you can get 3 doors down in void star! Gone are the days where you could leave a tank defending 1 turret in civil war because he could survive long enough to call for backup and have enough time for them to arrive before losing the node... and so much for huttball... I cant even get through the middle of the arena without being sent right back to the spawn area.

 

What happened to the clutch matches of huttball? You know, the ones where the teams are tied 5/5 and its all about who can hold onto the ball with just seconds left? I know I wouldn't be able to hold onto the ball at all. Or what about civil war, where both teams were so evenly matched you were tied into the last seconds when someone noticed the enemy had all 8 members of their team fighting at middle that you sent a ninja to steal right at the last second?! Those are the matches i play SWTOR to play. 1.2 just took those away...

[DropbearSW]

The 1.15 system gives too much reward for losing.

No one even bothers to win after getting 4 medals.

The losing player gets 80 medals while the winning players gets 100. How is that even a good system? The system right now is a good change.

 

 

Please read again the OP... read the gear catch-22 situation.. it's not a good change..

 

one faction will never be able to catch up with the other faction as it is now.

[sivlin]

Bro

 

No one wants to be rewarded for losing and preforming badly. No one is saying that. But you assume that all things are equal in SWTOR PvP land. That everyone has the same gear and expertise and no one has the advantage.

 

Fact is there is a severe faction imbalance across multiple servers. One side is simply dominated by the other. This leaves one side with a easy gear grind and the other with a very hard gear grind.

 

With the old system even if you lost and preformed well (got your 4 medals) you got enough WZ comms to make it worth your while. You could at least compete in the gear grind with those who were winning.

 

Now there is no way. Players who lose more than half of there matches are looking at well over 520+ hours to get a War Hero set. You break that down it equates to roughly 6 months or more of grinding WZ 6 hours a day. Players who win over half there matches are looking at 450+ hours or about 5 months of grinding 6 hours a day.

 

Sorry but I didn't sign up for a Korean grind fest MMO. I like gear progression and you need to work for it but this is a bit excessive.

 

 

Your numbers are exciting.

 

War Hero gear is not that much better than Battle Master. Even losing matches, it would probably only take about 150 war zones to get full Battle Master.

 

The longest a match will go on is about 20 minutes. Most matches do not last that long, but lets theory craft.

 

20 minutes * 150 warzones = 3000 minutes. /60 = 50 hours of PvP to get full Battle Master.

 

Maybe War Hero is unattainable for the more casual player. I don't know how ranked war zones are going to be; Battle Master gear, however, is very attainable even to those who are losing frequently.

[Klatzy]

Played a couple, the server's fairly balanced. Won about half the matches. I think winners should be get more comms but it seems at least from stridency of the forum posts that ~50% penalty for losing is a bit much. 8 medals for a match earns about 80-90 comms for a win and ~40 for a loss.

 

It feels a bit harsh. If I were losing 70-80% of matches, which happens occasionally, particularly when a good premad is queuing I'd probably take a break earlier than I would. While it's nice to give those who a win a reward, in the grand scheme it'll be worse for the game as a whole.

 

My benchmark just from own subjective is that losers should get about 80-90% of the winning total, so that there's enough incentive to take your lumps.

 

Too harsh and you'll just have people stop playing.

[Sabredance]

Ok forum patrol.

What's your honest take on 1.2 pvp.

 

Faster pace which i am undecided for now wether i like it or not.

 

Obviously still class Balance issues. (e.g.My Gunslinger Energy regeneration is over the top now)

 

I still try to figure out how the damage increase from Expertise makes people die from two hits all over the place now as stated in the forum.

I die more frequently and i have more kills but i don´t get two-shotted even tho 1.2 ate a big chunk of my HP.

 

Way too much grind for my taste (critcrafted Gear + PvP gear to rip the mods out).

 

I'll bet you never even played one yet, simply because you say it's fine.

 

Before i answer-How much do you bet?

 

You like joining a team and receiving less rewards then before? At least If your team lost before 1.2, and you did well, You would be rewarded well for your performace.[ in case you failed to notice

 

As i asked before.Show me a better way of encouraging people to play to win.

I admit it´s not perfect.

I still miss a harsh leaver penalty.

 

^^^ Who hired this sabredance comedian guy.

 

 

I play for free to give something back to the world.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Sabredance