Obi-Wan vs Revan

[_Zorth_]

Again, in my opinion he wasn't. And Don't assume; I haven't forgotten anything. I just stated that Revan was still influencing Vitiate's mind.

 

In my opinion he is, In my opinion your opinion means nothing..

 

see what I did there?

 

[ReiKai]

Lucas did actually say that. And if I'm not mistaken, the video from Kotor 1 shows Revan in a juyo posture - that's the single most aggressive form of lightsaber combat.

 

What Lucas says is suggestive, not definitive. And there's a vast difference between what Lucas says and what actually goes on. Fact is, there's a lot more powerful jedi/sith in the KotoR/TOR Era than was ever shown in the PT/OT sets. I mean for cripes sake, Satele Shan Force Absorbs a lightsaber and does a Hadoken on Malgus. No Jedi in the PT era did anything even close to that.

 

And then there's lightsaber skills. Again, that can't even be proven. Look at the Darth Bane trilogy. Kas'im was considered potentially one of the greatest duelists of all time. Still got killed when Bane exploded the front of the Rakatan Temple on'im and buried Kas'im in the rubble, killing him.

[Spartanik]

Juyo was taught in the jedi order. It was just a controversial thing.

 

And thus not teached to most if any students. If it was a single one was a rarity. But that isnt what i meant though. I meanth the jedi dogmas, and way of thinking, they were too short sighted imo. That was the jedi faults of that time.

 

What Lucas says is suggestive, not definitive. And there's a vast difference between what Lucas says and what actually goes on. Fact is, there's a lot more powerful jedi/sith in the KotoR/TOR Era than was ever shown in the PT/OT sets. I mean for cripes sake, Satele Shan Force Absorbs a lightsaber and does a Hadoken on Malgus. No Jedi in the PT era did anything even close to that.

 

And then there's lightsaber skills. Again, that can't even be proven. Look at the Darth Bane trilogy. Kas'im was considered potentially one of the greatest duelists of all time. Still got killed when Bane exploded the front of the Rakatan Temple on'im and buried Kas'im in the rubble, killing him.

Yeah exactly. Also this is always very subjective, i mean if han solo can kill sidious, i dont get it why a fictional character couldnt beat other fictional character.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Spartanik

[Kazuuk]

Obi-wan was a pre CU defense stacker, and thus op'd.

[Castiel]

In my opinion he is, In my opinion your opinion means nothing..

 

see what I did there?

 

 

I know, to you guys your own opinion is the only one. As I said, no room for logical debate in gods domain.

[Castiel]

And thus not teached to most if any students. If it was a single one was a rarity. But that isnt what i meant though. I meanth the jedi dogmas, and way of thinking, they were too short sighted imo. That was the jedi faults of that time.

 

 

Yeah exactly. Also this is always very subjective, i mean if han solo can kill sidious, i dont get it why a fictional character couldnt beat other fictional character.

 

They don't understand what we mean, to them, canon and GL's word is law, and nothing else.

I can't understand how they can't understand that there are far too many variables for them to spew out their canon-"facts" and think they'd win every time.

 

And now I'll be called a Revan fanboy when I say that what GL said is suggestive and not 110% cold hard facts.

[BrandonSM]

They don't understand what we mean, to them, canon and GL's word is law, and nothing else.

I can't understand how they can't understand that there are far too many variables for them to spew out their canon-"facts" and think they'd win every time.

 

And now I'll be called a Revan fanboy when I say that what GL said is suggestive and not 110% cold hard facts.

 

All writers and such have to follow GL's words and G-canon or else their fired...

 

 

We are stating canon facts and yet you say we think our opinion is the only one...? Do you know the different between a Fact and an Opinion?

[Castiel]

All writers and such have to follow GL's words and G-canon or else their fired...

 

 

We are stating canon facts and yet you say we think our opinion is the only one...? Do you know the different between a Fact and an Opinion?

 

Canon or not, doesn't mean that one character will win VS everyone ya know.

[BrandonSM]

Canon or not, doesn't mean that one character will win VS everyone ya know.

 

Depends on who it is. If your talking Sid vs ANyother Sith then yes, Sid will always win. First off, his EU abilities outmathc any other Sith and its G-Canon that he is the most powerful.

[Castiel]

Depends on who it is. If your talking Sid vs ANyother Sith then yes, Sid will always win. First off, his EU abilities outmathc any other Sith and its G-Canon that he is the most powerful.

 

Rofl, you've been brainwashed by the canon-club....

[SerikFox]

What Lucas says is suggestive, not definitive. And there's a vast difference between what Lucas says and what actually goes on. Fact is, there's a lot more powerful jedi/sith in the KotoR/TOR Era than was ever shown in the PT/OT sets. I mean for cripes sake, Satele Shan Force Absorbs a lightsaber and does a Hadoken on Malgus. No Jedi in the PT era did anything even close to that.

 

And then there's lightsaber skills. Again, that can't even be proven. Look at the Darth Bane trilogy. Kas'im was considered potentially one of the greatest duelists of all time. Still got killed when Bane exploded the front of the Rakatan Temple on'im and buried Kas'im in the rubble, killing him.

 

G-canon beats out other canon. Lucas didn't say that suggestively - he said it pretty definitively.

[SerikFox]

You reversed it.

 

 

Obi-wan beats most in Lightsaber Combat, being the Best Practicioner of Soersu is quite impessive, as for Revan its hard to tell there is no confirmed facts on his lightsaber forms and such. But I'd say Obi-wan beats him in saber Skills.

 

And honestly his Force Ability is pretty tremendous as well. Having the strongest Force Push of the Jedi Order during the golden age? I'd say thats impressive, and the only one seen to match it was the Chosen One.

 

 

*Sorry I haven't been reading the thread, this may ahve already been posted.*

 

I'm thinking of the ep3 fight where Dooku couldn't get Obi-wan with a lightsaber so he instead choked and threw him with the force. Obi-wan was extremely impressive with the force, but Revan would be along the lines of Galen Marek most likely. Revan was the most powerful jedi of his time - Obi-wan was one of (im my opinion THE) greatest jedi of his time. However, he lacked the kind of mastery of the force that Dooku did. He may have had a stronger force push, and he was one of the greatest duelists of all time - but his other abilities with the force were not up to Dooku's, Windu's, Yoda's, or Sidious's level. Revan was noted for having control over both "lightside" powers and "darkside" powers, giving him an amazing control of the force. Revan was also noted as an amazing duelist, as he killed Yusanis (spelled correct?), Mandalore, and Malak (until Revan killed him he was considered the best fighter of his time). Obi-wan's mastery in lightsaber combat may possibly even be better still - but if nothing else he would be unable to win through the force.

[SerikFox]

What Lucas says is suggestive, not definitive. And there's a vast difference between what Lucas says and what actually goes on. Fact is, there's a lot more powerful jedi/sith in the KotoR/TOR Era than was ever shown in the PT/OT sets. I mean for cripes sake, Satele Shan Force Absorbs a lightsaber and does a Hadoken on Malgus. No Jedi in the PT era did anything even close to that.

 

And then there's lightsaber skills. Again, that can't even be proven. Look at the Darth Bane trilogy. Kas'im was considered potentially one of the greatest duelists of all time. Still got killed when Bane exploded the front of the Rakatan Temple on'im and buried Kas'im in the rubble, killing him.

 

G-canon beats out other canon. Lucas didn't say that suggestively - he said it pretty definitively.

[Captain_Zone]

I know it's probably already been posted as to how Canon works, but here goes....

 

G-Canon. Straight from the Mouth of God (in this case George Lucas, being that he is the God of Star Wars). It also includes his published and unpublished movie scripts/screenplays, novelizations of the movies, and other works he himself has penned.

 

T-Canon. Television Canon. Just a half step under G-Canon. So far the ONLY Star Wars that was on TV that is NOT part of T-Canon was the old Holiday Special. Only good thing that came out of that was Boba Fett (first appearance).

 

C-Canon. Novels, Lucas approved games, comics, etc. Note that in the games, the gameplay mechanics are NOT Canon. The story, however, is to a certain extent. Each story has usually one specific outcome that remains as Canon. Everything else is a "what if?" scenario.

 

N-Canon. Non-Canon or Questionable at best. Fan fiction, etc. The Holiday Special fits into N-Canon, even though Boba Fett and the other movie characters in it were G-Canon, the events of the special never happened. Also, the old Marvel Star Wars comics have been retconned.

 

Now, according to G-Canon, the original screenplay of Return of the Jedi had Boba Fett climbing out of the Sarlacc pit at the end of the movie. It was cut because Lucas had to complete his deadline for his producers and because he felt it interfered with the ending of the movie as it stood. However, even in that interview, he didn't retcon Fett's survival in the ExU books. So that right there tells us he's alive.

 

Ahh, loopholes. Gotta love 'em!

[Rayla_Felana]

Revan was the most powerful jedi of his time -

 

Yeh, he stopped being a Jedi half-way through the Mandalorian Wars, he abandoned the Jedi teachings in favour of Mandalorian tactics, he wasn't even a member of the Jedi order officially any more, all the Revanchists were deemed rogue elements, the KotOR comics tell us this very definitively.

 

When he was mind-wiped by the Jedi, only his new identity was deemed a Jedi Knight, when he became Revan again, he had an argument with the Jedi Council and they dismissed his teachings, they went their own ways, Revan was a Jedi only officially, so it wouldn't become public news, in reality he was nothing of the sort nor did he believe himself as such.

 

He wasn't really ever a Sith either, the Emperor made him a Sith Lord, and Revan had forgotten why he was a Sith and actually believed he was doing it all for his own gain, the Dark Side did this to him.

 

Revan was neither a Jedi nor a Sith, he was just Revan he stood alone, Malak said it himself.

 

He couldn't truly 'master both sides of the force' as some of you claim because he didn't believe in either path nor is it even possible to do this, you'd be literally ripped apart by it, it is impossible to use both, you'd have to simultaneously channel your Zen and calmness and be fuelled with hatred and rage, thus it isn't possible, it doesn't work that way, he believed in his 'Reborn' path, eventually as we saw he gained oneness with the force through his balance, but it did him no good against the Emperor.

 

I find it humorous that Revan fans continue to classify him as either one of them, if anything he is a Hero of the Republic, the Republic is where his real loyalties lay the entire time.

[Thelna]

To back up Rayla's point. Jacen Solo felt he could avoid the entire dark and light side issue. seeing the use of the force as either light or dark, was a weakness that he intended to overcome.

 

Did not happen, eventually he gave himself over to fear and anger. who knows what else. he became blinded by the power of the dark side. Hmm, such a shame, I really thought Jacen was onto something there.

 

The hard part confirming Obi wan as the man, is that he was many years away from becoming strong enough in the force, so that he could not only beat you with a saber, but completely counter all your force attacks. Obi Wan had not achieved this yet. Exactly why he was sent after Anikan and not Darth Sidious. Sidious would have played ping pong with his head.

 

My money might be put on Mace. His ability to free himself from the restraints of the light, give him an advantage and he could see the weakness in his foes. probably the most deadly of all the fighters and probably would have the best chance against Revan.

 

I will have to read the Revan story line and see where he was at with the use of the force. anything short of Yoda / Dukoo ability, and Obi Wan owns him.

 

Luke still beats them all. I am not even sure Obi Wan could beat luke, since they both fight the same way, utterly and entirely guided by the force. Obi Wan did not decide to drop the container on the driods (ep. 3) it was the force that led him to that move.

 

but this is a debate for another thread.

[BrandonSM]

To back up Rayla's point. Jacen Solo felt he could avoid the entire dark and light side issue. seeing the use of the force as either light or dark, was a weakness that he intended to overcome.

 

Did not happen, eventually he gave himself over to fear and anger. who knows what else. he became blinded by the power of the dark side. Hmm, such a shame, I really thought Jacen was onto something there.

 

The hard part confirming Obi wan as the man, is that he was many years away from becoming strong enough in the force, so that he could not only beat you with a saber, but completely counter all your force attacks. Obi Wan had not achieved this yet. Exactly why he was sent after Anikan and not Darth Sidious. Sidious would have played ping pong with his head.

 

My money might be put on Mace. His ability to free himself from the restraints of the light, give him an advantage and he could see the weakness in his foes. probably the most deadly of all the fighters and probably would have the best chance against Revan.

 

I will have to read the Revan story line and see where he was at with the use of the force. anything short of Yoda / Dukoo ability, and Obi Wan owns him.

 

Luke still beats them all. I am not even sure Obi Wan could beat luke, since they both fight the same way, utterly and entirely guided by the force. Obi Wan did not decide to drop the container on the driods (ep. 3) it was the force that led him to that move.

 

but this is a debate for another thread.

 

Mace beats all but Luke in Dueling IMHO. I'd bet quite a few bucks that Mace would dominate Revan.