HeVans_ Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ok so I play a dps mercenary on Nightmare Lands, I am an avid PvP and PvE player, my guild (PC Gamer minties ) has both the EV/KP titles on numerous runs and tonight we cleared both nightmare raids just for the lolz (and the black hole comms from KP). We run with a Mercenary healer and an Operative healer, our merc healer didn't have any heat problems at all, so for all the people crying out there do not dispair! all is well I play Arsenal for PvE due to the lovely armor debuff it gives my team, and I swap between Pyro and Arsenal for PvP, but mainly sticking to Pyro. I have got to say that Arsenal got a HUGE burst damage buff in PvP. I am fully geared in battlemaster and versus targets also with around ~1k expertise I am hitting 6k crits with my heatseekers. Yes 6K FREAKIN CRITS, arsenal mercs - it's time to party because your burst damage just skyrocketed. As for Pyro, the dps is EVEN MORE INSANE. The new expertise gradient means that in effect if you are geared in full battlemaster or war hero, versus a target of similar expertise you have roughly an additinonal 6-7% flat damage increase. This is huge. Pyro is all about the Dots and with this damage increase you are gunna see your dots crit through the f********* roof. I am not sure if these huge buffs are intended for mercs, but I am sure as hell enjoying it. Nobody can touch my dps in a warzone now, and our raid functionality has maybe been slightly nerfed in terms of sustained single target dps (tracer damage nerf) or the slight healer nerfs, but burst damage is what mercs are all about, and when it comes to downing that pesky Soa, or killing that little Jedi Sage (insert profanity) we have got some really nice burst damage increases with this patch. Amen and peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNinjaboy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I can't tell if you're trolling or not but here are the facts - #1. -3% Crit nerf (global merc nerf) #2. +5 CD increase to main defensive ability - Jetboost #3. -5% Damage reduction #4. DFA is completely broken #5. TM is doing 50% less damage per hit. 1k-1.1k vs. 1.9k-2k pre-patch. Heatseeker is hitting for about 1k-1.5k more (15 second CD) Unload damage is the same but Barrage procs more often. Overall a pretty big break in the game resulting in Arsenal Mercs relying on two abilities neither of which provide tree skill offensive / defensive bonuses like TM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taelizalde Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Thanks for the feedback! Keep it coming Better and more proactive than the crying replies like the one above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinaexpress Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Tracer missile is not 10% nerf, seems more like a 50% nerf... then again heatseeker missile critting about 7k with full bm gear. Overall it's a dps lost in pvp. I would avg 400-450k in dmg before patch, 550-600k voidstar, now around 300k and about 350k in voidstar full duration. Overheating is a big issue why dmg is lower. Find myself with high heat more than usual, even with using unload on proc. DFA dmg is broken also. Pyrotech might be better for overall dmg now in pvp. As far as healing goes, the nerf doesn't seem so bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truls_rohk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 As an Arsenal merc, I also feel like I got a bit of a buff actually yes tracer 3k+ crits are fewer now, but now you really just use them for their debuffs and can use unload more often. And yes in pvp, I have seen more 5k+ heatseeker crits in one day than I have in all my 65 valor ranks prior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeVans_ Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Tracer missile is not 10% nerf, seems more like a 50% Pyrotech might be better for overall dmg now in pvp. Pyro has always been superior damage in pvp (if you are in battlemaster), i've never even once had an arsenal merc come close to my dps ^.^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeVans_ Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 I can't tell if you're trolling or not but here are the facts - #1. -3% Crit nerf (global merc nerf) #2. +5 CD increase to main defensive ability - Jetboost #3. -5% Damage reduction #4. DFA is completely broken #5. TM is doing 50% less damage per hit. 1k-1.1k vs. 1.9k-2k pre-patch. Heatseeker is hitting for about 1k-1.5k more (15 second CD) Unload damage is the same but Barrage procs more often. Overall a pretty big break in the game resulting in Arsenal Mercs relying on two abilities neither of which provide tree skill offensive / defensive bonuses like TM. Tracer is hitting between 1600-2200 for me in both PvP and PvE, the damage is essentially the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACMessiah Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I know this guy called Bocephus that totally owns you though. =D SPOILER It's me! Pyro ftw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I can't tell if you're trolling or not but here are the facts - #1. -3% Crit nerf (global merc nerf) #2. +5 CD increase to main defensive ability - Jetboost #3. -5% Damage reduction #4. DFA is completely broken #5. TM is doing 50% less damage per hit. 1k-1.1k vs. 1.9k-2k pre-patch. Heatseeker is hitting for about 1k-1.5k more (15 second CD) Unload damage is the same but Barrage procs more often. Overall a pretty big break in the game resulting in Arsenal Mercs relying on two abilities neither of which provide tree skill offensive / defensive bonuses like TM. You're forgetting the change in expertise formula. Before 1.2 in full BM it was something like 12% damage increase, 12% damage reduction, 12% healing increase. Now it's 20+% damage increase, 16% damage reduction, 10% healing. We just got a flat 10+% buff over healers, PLUS their individual class nerfs, plus a buff to our burst. Tracer does less but nowhere near 50%, we eat sorc healers up faster than ever. One thing I'll say is that we have a little more trouble with tanks now. Less spam damage on tracer, having to use unload more (which sucks vs tanks). It does get frustrating trying to get through their damn cooldowns, but vs healers, which is what we SHOULD be hitting, we crush them even more than before. Marauders were my nemesis before, but now with heatseekers hitting SO much we can actually one shot them before they pop their ridiculous undying cooldowns. This is a really big thing to me cus every wz is filled with BM sentinels who just won't die. Edited April 13, 2012 by Sinsavz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankStig Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 In full Rakata PVE Tracer non-Crit pre 1.2 1700-1800 Tracer non-Crit Post 1.2 1200-1300 Diff of about 35% Tracer Crit pre 1.2 2700-<3000 Tracer Crit post 1.2 2200-2300 Diff about 25% In what world is that a 10% decrease Plus DOA does less damage and heatseeker to me is doing the same damage it did pre 1.2 crits for about 5500-6000 Sorry but if you think we didn't get the nerf bat HARD your just wrong numbers speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) In full Rakata PVE Tracer non-Crit pre 1.2 1700-1800 Tracer non-Crit Post 1.2 1200-1300 Diff of about 35% Tracer Crit pre 1.2 2700-<3000 Tracer Crit post 1.2 2200-2300 Diff about 25% In what world is that a 10% decrease Plus DOA does less damage and heatseeker to me is doing the same damage it did pre 1.2 crits for about 5500-6000 Sorry but if you think we didn't get the nerf bat HARD your just wrong numbers speak for themselves. In pve it will be a more noticable nerf but in pvp ALL damage has been increased so we're not feeling a nerf. You are very wrong about heatseekers, the damage has definitely definitely gone up, I'd argue more than 10%. I never used to get the 5k medal, maxing at around 4.5k on a squishy. Now I hit 6k. The reason you think it hasn't changed is because previously you benefited from other mercs heat signatures, which was not intentional and has now been removed. Edited April 13, 2012 by Sinsavz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerix Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 ... Marauders were my nemesis before, but now with heatseekers hitting SO much we can actually one shot them before they pop their ridiculous undying cooldowns. This is a really big thing to me cus every wz is filled with BM sentinels who just won't die. I'm a BM pyro merc and I'm being eaten by maras / sents post 1.2 In a 1 v 1 against a normal skilled sent / mara I lose quite comfortably now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I'm a BM pyro merc and I'm being eaten by maras / sents post 1.2 In a 1 v 1 against a normal skilled sent / mara I lose quite comfortably now. Can understand that, I play bodyguard spec sometimes but I'm not even gonna try it since 1.2, those sents will make us into mincemeat. I feel like arsenal is our only spec who can stand up to them now, with the added burst not giving them a chance to pop cooldowns. They're still a nightmare counter-class though. Edited April 13, 2012 by Sinsavz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diddley Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Pyro - no difference really. Have to wait a few seconds to proc ppa (negligible). Have new fusion missile animation - I feel I remember it from somewhere? Arsenal - Less tracer damage, increased HS damage. LOADS of barrage procs makes for increased dps and a more involved rotation. New animation makes my toon look boring. Bodygaurd - Healed a little yesterday. Weaving in rapid shots it's not really a problem. No longer invincible in 1 on 1s. DFA radius is a joke; I honestly cant believe how useless it is now. Will probably electro dart targets to keep them in it from now on. Edited April 13, 2012 by Diddley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankStig Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) In pve it will be a more noticable nerf but in pvp ALL damage has been increased so we're not feeling a nerf. You are very wrong about heatseekers, the damage has definitely definitely gone up, I'd argue more than 10%. I never used to get the 5k medal, maxing at around 4.5k on a squishy. Now I hit 6k. The reason you think it hasn't changed is because previously you benefited from other mercs heat signatures, which was not intentional and has now been removed. Don't care about PVP, sorry... and I am the only merc in my raid group so only one Heat Signature. When i Had multiple Merc my Heat Seeker was criting for almost 7k Nice attempt though Edited April 13, 2012 by TankStig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Posted wrong information while looking at this -.- Edited April 13, 2012 by Chevee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Don't care about PVP, sorry... and I am the only merc in my raid group so only one Heat Signature. When i Had multiple Merc my Heat Seeker was criting for almost 7k Nice attempt though Heatseekers are improved a lot, it's an absolute fact no matter how much you deny it. Guess it doesn't matter when you're just pveing and killing lines of code though, so enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloThink Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posting because all of these QQ nerf posts are making me want to throw up and never visit the forums again. I'm nearly in Full Rakata with ~820 bonus tech damage and 74% Surge. Here are the numbers I've been hitting on the test dummies. Also I should note I love the changes to arsenal. More unload procs and bigger heatseeker crits are yummy. Also, a 3% crit nerf equates to a 2% damage reduction overall... OMG SO BAAAD. Tracer.... 3100-3200 crits --> 2700-2850 crits (whats 3100x(.9) ???? just under 2800!!!) Heatseeker crits w/ 5 stacks ~ 4300-4600 --> 6000-6250 Dps using the new combat logs and a 3 minute recording 1500 (150-200 over equivalent sorc dpser) Anyone posting a 50% damage loss is forgetting thier stim and dpsing half naked. End of story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vojinsa Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 So has the rotation changed for arsenal PvE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posting because all of these QQ nerf posts are making me want to throw up and never visit the forums again. I'm nearly in Full Rakata with ~820 bonus tech damage and 74% Surge. Here are the numbers I've been hitting on the test dummies. Also I should note I love the changes to arsenal. More unload procs and bigger heatseeker crits are yummy. Also, a 3% crit nerf equates to a 2% damage reduction overall... OMG SO BAAAD. Tracer.... 3100-3200 crits --> 2700-2850 crits (whats 3100x(.9) ???? just under 2800!!!) Heatseeker crits w/ 5 stacks ~ 4300-4600 --> 6000-6250 Dps using the new combat logs and a 3 minute recording 1500 (150-200 over equivalent sorc dpser) Anyone posting a 50% damage loss is forgetting thier stim and dpsing half naked. End of story! I would like to see a sustained 10-11minute fight where you dont stop your meters right when your damage increasing cooldowns run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alunis Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 PVP Arsenal - It seems to me that there was a definite buff to burst dmg for arsenal but I feel like I'm getting owned by some classes. It seems harder to stay alive as long as I could before this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypno-III- Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 We got nerfed no matter how you slice it. everything else added it to disguise it. you needed to be a good player to play yro now u need to be a ****** to play pyro well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloThink Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I would like to see a sustained 10-11minute fight where you dont stop your meters right when your damage increasing cooldowns run out. I didn't use any relics or adrenals but thanks for assuming lol. Only thing i used was vent heat which is a part of our rotation anyway. I can post a screenshot tonight if I'm able. Also failed to mention i had no crit buff, just sorc and warr. Edited April 13, 2012 by HelloThink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodmonson Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) In PVE on my merc BH with 6 pieces of Rakata gear, my damage output has increased. Not only do I do a little more damage I also have an easier time controlling my heat. I am wondering what they are talking about rotation changes. Now that the damage output of power shot has dropped there is no reason to use it in place of TM. So the only difference in my rotation now is the fact that I get to use Unload more often and I vent heat faster. I can fight flat out for 2 minutes straight before I have to pop Vent heat. The only rotation difference that I can see is that I can work in Unload more often. Everything else stays the same. I did notice if I tried to maintain my old rotation without using Unload as often as I could that My DPS dropped significantly. I tried many different rotations and the best thing I found was situational use of Unload worked the best. TM TM TM (Use Unload) HS TM TM( If it procs again use Unload and the Chaf because what ever you are shooting will be really pissed off by this point) Rail Shot Thermal Override Fusion Missile Explosive Dart. Then I start over. I think there TM problem comes down to the fact that Rail shot will need 5 stacks of Tracer Lock to make it effective. If they got rid tracer lock and added that effect to TM in general it would stop the spamming. If I didnt have tracer lock to worry about I could do so many different things in order to maintain DPS and Heat mitigation. You would only ever need to hit TM again just to keep the Debuff up. I am not sure how it could be done but I like the procs on unload. How does Pyro look in PvE? I haven't tried to spec Pyro since the changes. Has anyone tried Pyro in raiding? Is there a difference in how it performs? Edited April 13, 2012 by Goodmonson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AADiC Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Posting because all of these QQ nerf posts are making me want to throw up and never visit the forums again. I'm nearly in Full Rakata with ~820 bonus tech damage and 74% Surge. Here are the numbers I've been hitting on the test dummies. Also I should note I love the changes to arsenal. More unload procs and bigger heatseeker crits are yummy. Also, a 3% crit nerf equates to a 2% damage reduction overall... OMG SO BAAAD. Tracer.... 3100-3200 crits --> 2700-2850 crits (whats 3100x(.9) ???? just under 2800!!!) Heatseeker crits w/ 5 stacks ~ 4300-4600 --> 6000-6250 Dps using the new combat logs and a 3 minute recording 1500 (150-200 over equivalent sorc dpser) Anyone posting a 50% damage loss is forgetting thier stim and dpsing half naked. End of story! I'll start with a NO. Since when do your numbers stand for all players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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