Sage/Sorcerer healers in PVP

[Jenrais]

Maybe 1, what difference does that make?

 

He says that people can't heal damage on 5 people

 

 

I am stating that healers are able to heal 8 alone during the hardest mode of content

[Ruuprect]

He says that people can't heal damage on 5 people

 

 

I am stating that healers are able to heal 8 alone during the hardest mode of content

 

Ah, I see your point now.

 

Sorry went right over my head lol

Edited April 12, 2012 by Ruuprect

[LancelotOC]

I was thinking it may be better to dump all crit, defence, and surge and pile full alacrity and power. There is actually a mod with this config on the boots .

 

Then give up the AE heal for the root on the KB.

 

I'm not sold on using Disturbance for the extra regen since regen is so low when you are low, disturbance hits are not so glamorous, and as such teh disturbance mana cost probobly makes the extra regen a net loss. I have to try it to be sure.

 

Ultimatly though I'm also leaning towards TzachNahRood's thinking that we are a one key class here foward. Just spamming Dark Heal/Benevolence with the occasional HOT and cleanse.

 

What disappoints me is I think I was spamming Benevolence in warzones when I was level 10 because that was my only spell. Now close 80 valor ranks later, 40 levels later and all this gear and I may be back to casting that same one spell in warzones.

 

Bright side is I can program all these much fewer usuable abilities into a game pad and play the game like a console game.

Edited April 12, 2012 by LancelotOC

[Carlsbergh]

I didn't post anything constructive because this thread isn't constructive, it's just a QQ because you were nerfed to the point where you arnt the clear cut best healer class in the game anymore.

 

If you really want something to ***** about roll a commando and see how long it takes you to come running back to your sorc, no I don't have a high level sorc (lvl 37 I think) so you have me there but I do know that no other healer class has an auto crit button, a bubble that can be cast on allies, force speed, a huge power pool (well maybe not huge but certainly larger than the others, your regen rate may be slower though so that could be a wash). All healing classes have a big, long cast time heal but sorcs/ sages were the only ones able to reduce that time with the use of a class skill, now you will just have to shelve it like the rest of us unless you by some miracle have the time to cast it.

 

As far as I can see these changes bring sorc's/ sages down to the level of the other healing classes, now we can all be miserable together.

 

 

Neglect your armor rating, your own shield, your own knockback (which knocks people back further than ours, shock horror!), your instant-cast, you making yourself uninterruptable and having more DPS.

 

It's always great to single out the toolbox of one class, but at least have the decency to agree that your class also has tools that work in its advantage. I'm not saying you guys don't have it bad either, but it's not because your class doesn't have it easy that it's impossible for Sages/Sorcs to post constructive criticism about their own class that they know and play.

[OldSwab]

Don't forget to mark your favorite enemy healers.

 

Otherwise, they get lonely fiddling around off by themselves, out on the periphery of the fight, just waiting to get picked to play with the rest of the team.

 

Be sympathetic to them because they just want to play, too. Be inclusive and tolerant and kind, and go mark a healer today! They will gesture "you're welcome" (I think that's what they're saying) from the medcenter, and isn't that really the best reward, ever?

[arnieasada]

He says that people can't heal damage on 5 people

 

 

I am stating that healers are able to heal 8 alone during the hardest mode of content

 

Damage from raid mechanics VS. damage from pvp is not that same at all.

[sanchito]

He says that people can't heal damage on 5 people

 

 

I am stating that healers are able to heal 8 alone during the hardest mode of content

 

My post clearly stated its only about WZs, where it would be pretty boring if 1 healer on each side = nobody dies

 

It is very well possible that sage healing is not working properly in PVE now, i haven't tried it

[Harsisus]

My post clearly stated its only about WZs, where it would be pretty boring if 1 healer on each side = nobody dies

 

It is very well possible that sage healing is not working properly in PVE now, i haven't tried it

 

Sorry but unless the opposing team is full of rabbits there's no way in hell even a fantastic healer can keep everyone alive in a warzone - there were always cases of "ah, not wasting time there, he's/they're screwed" when allies get zerg-rushed; and this has been amplified so much more now that we have, on average, lower Healing per Second in hot zones.

[CaptainInsano]

If you solo queue as a healer you should expect to be gang *****, especially if you play Empire. Hint: tanks and healers rarely queue solo because of the group based nature of their roles. Most likely you will be the only healer on a team of tunnel vision DPS and you will be focused. If you want to play a support role, find people to support you. With a tank on you and other healers in your group, you would have nothing to complain about except how easy the game is. Edited April 13, 2012 by CaptainInsano

[Harsisus]

If you solo queue as a healer you should expect to be gang *****, especially if you play Empire. Hint: tanks and healers rarely queue solo because of the group based nature of their roles. Most likely you will be the only healer on a team of tunnel vision DPS and you will be focused. If you want to play a support role, find people to support you. With a tank on you and other healers in your group, you would have nothing to complain about except how easy the game is.

 

More often than not always duo-queue with a Jugger in pure tank spec, maybe 1 or 2 extra guildmates/friends. Comment is moot.

[THAAC]

Call me a bluff old traditionalist, but wasn't that BW intention to nerf healing? They stated quite clearly, Ops, and Sage/Sorc healing was performing well above what it was intended and that 1.2 would be adjusting them to come into line with what they intended.

 

They also said that affected classes never appreciate what they consider to be a nerf, but that the changes were needed....guess they were right on that one.

 

I have done quite a few Wz yesterday and today, and have noticed Ops and Sages seems easier to control, but have also ran into several who have adapted to the changes and are just as effective.

 

Conclusion: If you are still in the same spec and mash the same buttons to try and do the same job as before, you will never succeed. The changes were intended to stop easy-mode healing...those that can and do put a bit more thought into it now, are still able to do well.

 

From a DPS point of view....my ability to close down a healer is a lot better now...not because I am better, or you got nerfed....but because my target's cast bar is right in the middle of my screen now, and quite large....I never get distracted now and miss an interrupt. The ability for UI customisation has made my interrupting job a lot easier.

 

Thank-you BW

[Astarica]

I don't really notice anything special about healers. They still die if they stay still like they always did. The good healers are always running away from you. Operatives seems to be more popular since they have the most heals while running away, but Sorc/Sage have a few decent mobility tricks. Yeah if you stand there you're going to die, but that was always true against good DPS.

[Frankyblue]

I completely understand that we may have been a little op, but completely changing the mechanics of our spec is just ridiculous. As many others have already stated we could have kept our same mechanics and just had our numbers reduced and some longer cooldowns implemented. My guess is that bioware isn't smart enough to fix the double force bending bug and still have us get a 1.3 second DI so they just removed this completely and changed the whole thing. If they did know how to fix the bug and still have it work like it use to it would of been a simple hot fix added long before 1.2 .

 

I'm pretty upset with my sorc healer that I spent a good part of the last 4 months playing. I don't have an alt because I really enjoyed my main. I'm not upset with the numbers I put out now they seem pretty inline with other types of healers. I'm upset because this isn't fun spaming 1 button with a hot and purge tossed in for good measure. Before 1.2 everything felt so right and smooth. It all worked together and gave me several options depending on the situation. Now I just do the same thing over and over and over and over. Doesn't matter what the situation is I just have 1 choice hot, darkheal x1000 and watch them die from three 7k crits in a row.

 

Sure bioware said that we would all complain because that's what nerfed classes do. At least in every other mmo ever when they nerf a class this hard they also give that class something new and different to keep them happy. Maybe a 3k instant cast with a 30 second cd at least then if someones almost dead I can have a chance of keeping them up. As of right now if some ones below 25% I might as well just wave goodbye because I have no chance of getting them back up while they are being focused.

[DHallerlove]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=405127

 

I made some posts in here, with one of them attached below. I made a couple additional replies in the post with a couple of the things I do to make it work, but since it's a different playstyle, I'm still getting comfortable with it and figuring out what is best for me--and thus am always looking for suggestions. Cheers!

 

 

Feel free to message me if you want some tips on sorc healing. I'm still able to sustain 500-800 (haven't hit over a mil yet, but I hit 850+) in warzones. Basically you need to use certain casts to force them to burn their interrupts so you can freecast (nothing different from pre 1.2), and then strategic use of revivification (both as an 'interrupt me please' cast and even as a personal HoT) among other things.

 

Huttball post 1.2 (you can see that lame little 'bash' move linked to my S key for proof--not that it's ultra impressive, but just to show it's possible to still have decent output). The 5 deaths were primarily due to some well-executed powertech pulls (one guy had a bromance with me), but I do tend to play more aggressive in huttball as I like to push the offense with pulls and clearouts/etc.

 

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m503/dhallerlove/Post12Hutt540k.jpg

 

a 0-0 voidstar game...yes voidstar is more favorable to revivification, but if you need to lay the aoe heals down, you can use dark infusion/dark heal to set them up so that you can freecast. Plus, using sprints+overload+running around pillars to get casts off will allow you tp keep yourself up versus multiple deaths (despite the 0 deaths that round I was actually getting tunneled quite a bit--1st or 2nd most damage taken that round)

 

 

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m503/dhallerlove/Post12850k.jpg[/img]"]http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m503/dhallerlove/Post12850k.jpg

 

 

My numbers will improve as I get more comfortable with the changes to the playstyle, but don't get your heads down--you can still perform! Remember..Pillarhumping is your friend :-)

 

DLove

[Frankyblue]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=405127

 

I made some posts in here, with one of them attached below. I made a couple additional replies in the post with a couple of the things I do to make it work, but since it's a different playstyle, I'm still getting comfortable with it and figuring out what is best for me--and thus am always looking for suggestions. Cheers!

 

This guy must be paid by or work for bioware. No way anyone that played pre 1.2 is this positive about the crap changes to our mechanics. I don't care if you make it work it's just boring now and not fun in any way.

[MightyHalo]

Here a news flash people. Most gamers don't really care for uber healers. They actually destroy the fun of the game.

 

beating on a healer as he laughs at you like it was before 1.2 wasn't fun at all.

 

But now if they are focused they actually go down if you use debuffs.

 

When the game first came out you couldn't find a healer and wz's were a blast, but then they nerfed damage, and all of a sudden healers came out of the woodwork in droves, ruining the fun of wz's.

 

Last night I had more fun that at anytime in this game, win or loss, so I am a big fan of the current game.

 

reading the forums before logging in yesterday I was expecting the worst, and to my surprise it was awesome, solo queing all night. I got comms, medals for objective based play, and win a majority of matches, even against premades.

 

I was losing interest before 1.2, but now I love the game again.

[SappyOneOneThree]

Here a news flash people. Most gamers don't really care for uber healers. They actually destroy the fun of the game.

 

beating on a healer as he laughs at you like it was before 1.2 wasn't fun at all.

 

But now if they are focused they actually go down if you use debuffs.

 

When the game first came out you couldn't find a healer and wz's were a blast, but then they nerfed damage, and all of a sudden healers came out of the woodwork in droves, ruining the fun of wz's.

 

Last night I had more fun that at anytime in this game, win or loss, so I am a big fan of the current game.

 

reading the forums before logging in yesterday I was expecting the worst, and to my surprise it was awesome, solo queing all night. I got comms, medals for objective based play, and win a majority of matches, even against premades.

 

I was losing interest before 1.2, but now I love the game again.

 

Which class are you rolling with?

[DHallerlove]

This guy must be paid by or work for bioware. No way anyone that played pre 1.2 is this positive about the crap changes to our mechanics. I don't care if you make it work it's just boring now and not fun in any way.

 

haha, nice

 

I'm not sure how you find an increase in difficulty to be boring :-p I actually enjoy the challenge associated with healing in 1.2 (plus the whole everybody rageragerage i'm unsubbing because I can't exploit a talent and double-up on a megaheal makes me laugh)

 

It does suck losing the casting speed bonus on dark infusion, but makes it that much more fun when you can still survive multiple players and keep them perplexed and confused at how they couldn't kill a lame duck sorc.

 

Trust me man, with the changes to expertise, healing is almost where it used to be pre-1.2--you just have to adjust your playstyle..

 

cheers

DLove

[DarthBama]

haha, nice

 

I'm not sure how you find an increase in difficulty to be boring :-p I actually enjoy the challenge associated with healing in 1.2 (plus the whole everybody rageragerage i'm unsubbing because I can't exploit a talent and double-up on a megaheal makes me laugh)

 

It does suck losing the casting speed bonus on dark infusion, but makes it that much more fun when you can still survive multiple players and keep them perplexed and confused at how they couldn't kill a lame duck sorc.

 

Trust me man, with the changes to expertise, healing is almost where it used to be pre-1.2--you just have to adjust your playstyle..

 

cheers

DLove

 

Wait, time out, flag on the play. You realize expertise for heals is now half that of DPS (at least were I am at right now).

[Darth_Philar]

Conclusion: If you are still in the same spec and mash the same buttons to try and do the same job as before, you will never succeed. The changes were intended to stop easy-mode healing...those that can and do put a bit more thought into it now, are still able to do well.

 

Stopping easy mode healing would have been as simple as either a small increase in force cost or the moving of the cost-reducing talents to a higher point in the lightning tree.

 

Forcing players of certain spec to completely change the way they have been playing since launch is bad. That's how you get people to stop playing. I learned to play a Sorcerer Healer and now I can't play one anymore. My only option now is to learn how to play a whole new class because even if I stick with my level 50 sorcerer and keep him a healer (I won't, there is no point to being a healer now) I still have to learn a completely new way to play him.

 

Give it about 2 weeks and you will see a massive drop off in the number of healers in Warzones. When you combine being marked/focused with already low survivability and now reduced healing AND worse force efficiency the message is pretty clear. Sorcerers are not intended to heal.

[swtorEleani]

The funny thing is I actually used to laugh ( /laugh ) at bad dps before 1.2, because it was just laughable, when they kicked an innervate at the very last second, even after I got my proc for a free sacrifice already or were just hitting me with styles a serious playerer wouldn't even bother to keybind... They were doing everything wrong there is to do or were standing there trying to kill me geared in their lvl40-47 blue-orange mix with around 12k hp... Seriously?!

 

As mentioned by a lot of players (myself included) numerous times before, there were a certain setup which definetely made (and to a certain point still does) a healer op: Being guarded by a geared tank. Sure I cloud keep myself alive against a lot of classes trying to kill me solo, but I refuse to see a design flaw in that, as there are other classes who cut through me like a hot knife through butter even before 1.2 hit live servers. I tried not to use the double force bending at all, so my statement is based on that; excessively exploiting that bug certainly made sages/sorcs overpowered! But they were unable to fix it, so their way of overcoming it was just to change it to an useless effect, which no one cares to use, as it is way to costly (consumptiom nerf anyone...) and it even heals for less than a non-crit Dark Infusion.

Only reason anyone is using it right now is to get a least a couple of heals off before they're stomped into the ground. Dark Infusion is now useless, as it is being kicked, stuned pushed, etc.. by anyone who is not completely incapable of playing his class.

 

I unsubbed after testing pvp-healing on the ptr a few weeks back, but left me option to resub, when things would turn out otherwise, but they didn't! Everything happening right now in the warzones was predicted before it hit the live servers. They told us to look for underlying changes, well there they are: the expertise gear is favouring DPS even further - also something that was mentioned in the ptr feedback threads numerous times.

 

Over time yesterday I noticed a shift in the pvp group setups, less and less healer were present. Even to the point were I played 6 warzones in a row, in which I was the only healer on both sides and wanna know a funny thing: It didn't matter, just faceroll every single one you see in a metter of seconds or a during of a single stun.

I didn't even bother heal anyone under 50% life anymore, because before I could give him a sustainable heal he was already dead meat.

 

Even when not being focussed and dying within seconds unless a tank was kind enough to give me guard and spot the damage I felt utterly useless, as I was left with the impression that as a DD I would have been way more useful.

That is the main point btw, playing my healer used to be fun, I could actually help my team and have an impact on the course of the warzone.

And it's definetely not my own impression after having dicussed with a bunch of other healers (all hardcore pvp) on my server, they talk the same line.

 

There were plenty of threads and posts about the bad developments about healing in 1.2 and that they are already abating is not to the fact, that the healers are coping with the changes: They simple stop playing their healers or the game altogether. What's happening right now is the worst thing that can happen for a game - players stop caring...

As long there is a fluent discussion (even if it's only a flamestorm") everything is fine, people are still interested in the game and there is a chance to get back lost customers. But right now I'm not seeing that happening.

 

Even the DDs - and I'm not talking about the short sighted ones posting their pleasure about the recent changes, who still can't believe their luck that they got an I-WIN button now - start complaining about the killing speed in pvp, just read the forums...

 

I was hoping for a better outcome, as of the current state of the game I won't resile my unsubbing. SWTOR was fun, I especially enjoyed the great class story (and the cute british accent of my character).

 

 

TL;DR:

 

HEALING BROKEN - DPS WAY TO HIGH - FUN IN PLAYSTYLE GONE - BYE BYE

[DHallerlove]

Wait, time out, flag on the play. You realize expertise for heals is now half that of DPS (at least were I am at right now).

 

hehe you should work on your sports analogies

 

either who, yes, the full-fledged change did Not go through, and let's face it, if it did, sorcs would be the overwhelmingly best healer, period. You could lol dark heal people for 3-4k with no problem.

 

Either way, yes it helps the DPS, but it also helps your defense against DPS as well. It's not an exact scale and won't turn you in to god-mode over multiple DPS on you, but if you apply that logic, I won't insult your intelligence with the subsequent math.

 

Keep in mind it's not going to be like 1.2 again--you can't just exploit a talent or cast your mega fatty heal at lightspeed and be fine. You have to adjust your playstyle to get back to near-similar numbers, but it's definitely possible, and I've linked some proof. I'll continue to improve my own playing and refine my playstyle as I get more comfortable with the changes, but I'd suggest not just dwelling on the current state of sorc healing--I've yet to see how that will actually benefit you at all.

[unixbomber]

Here a news flash people. Most gamers don't really care for uber healers. They actually destroy the fun of the game.

 

beating on a healer as he laughs at you like it was before 1.2 wasn't fun at all.

 

But now if they are focused they actually go down if you use debuffs.

 

When the game first came out you couldn't find a healer and wz's were a blast, but then they nerfed damage, and all of a sudden healers came out of the woodwork in droves, ruining the fun of wz's.

 

Last night I had more fun that at anytime in this game, win or loss, so I am a big fan of the current game.

 

reading the forums before logging in yesterday I was expecting the worst, and to my surprise it was awesome, solo queing all night. I got comms, medals for objective based play, and win a majority of matches, even against premades.

 

I was losing interest before 1.2, but now I love the game again.

 

If you think this game had "uber" healers it leads me to believe you haven't played that many MMO's. Left alone or unfocused, healers could definitely do a lot but when focused and interrupted they were easily countered. Most situations I see referenced of healers "face tanking" 2-3 people is nothing more than 1) someone else healing that person in addition to themselves or 2) really, really bad dps. In my opinion, if cross server queues had been implemented in addition to a method of restricting ending up with stacked classes, of any type, the game would have been more enjoyable for everyone. I don't like seeing poorly thought out nerfs handed out as it indicates a form of incompetence somewhere in the design chain which can very well eventually impact the class you play.

[NyCHavok]

What? You got butthurt because you couldn't DPS through a heal or what?

 

After having spent the entire afternoon PvPing I can say the 0.9 delay on DI (not 1.8, I'm sure the double-1.3 cast was a bug) is hurting bad enough that I even had to bring out the Dark Heal so I could shoot off some quick heals to keep someone up long enough to DI them.

 

While doing that it drains Force Power like a whore and oh look, Consumption got nerfed to the point where I barely have a chance to use it before someone notices my health depleting and takes advantage of the situation (oh, and by the way, we're squishy as hell, so the moment anyone focuses us we're screwed to **** because the DPS was out of our heal capacity against Snipers/Ops/Maras even BEFORE the nerf - how the hell are we supposed to survive now? And piss off with the "premade, not pug, hurr hurr" argument, because even then I still get trampled).

 

Force Bending nerf, yeah fair enough, whatever, I can still hit 400k healing in a match if I try super-duper hard. But to nerf our sustainaibility in long-term fights while other classes ,using Rage for example, are able to keep going regardless is just outright ridiculous.

 

Had a fight with a Jedi Sentinel was doing outrageous DPS, fighting 3+ of my team, and was healing himself through combat. Self-sustainability beyond that of any healer no matter what you did... Pre-nerf.

 

I won't quit my healer, as I'm determined to be above average and come out on top - making me a popular choice for groups and raids later on, but I'm not happy about having both of those big nerfs being thrown at me.

 

So from me it's a yuck fou, and challenge accepted!

 

I agree. I plan on finding a way to better my healing sorc and healing through these nerfs. Lets do this!