SlimsPicken Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 yes..so winner get better and loser don't. in a 2 faction/gear based system that lead to one side smashing the other until they quit. Then the winner get to play against themself all day. once again if there no reward to losing, why stay, WZ will at least be quick. No one has told me a reason to stay in a losing WZ, which was my Original Point. exactly. People will probably flame you for making this post, but you are 100% correct. Much like the valor gain imbalances on Ilum with the controlling side having huge buffs and the non controlling gaining over half a slowly, all that did was gear up one faction over twice as fast, and in a gear based pvp system this is crippling to the low faction. Its a poorly thought out system if losing does not give at least 75% of what winning does... it only serves to create a gap between factions and ruin competitive pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 If you quit you get nothing at all, zip, zero, nada, simples This is exactly what I was thinking, lol. Okay, so quit the WZ and leave w/ nothing, or stay in and leave w/ something. You're lucky you get anything for losing. That's not how it was when I was a kid. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrip Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 isnt there a 15 min de-buff for leaving now? Figured that would stop people. I'll have to see tonight, hopefully it gets better with more people on. 15min time out is only for ranked, which doesn't exist atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This is exactly what I was thinking, lol. Okay, so quit the WZ and leave w/ nothing, or stay in and leave w/ something. You're lucky you get anything for losing. That's not how it was when I was a kid. /shrug That attitude will just cause people to not play, and then you have no queues at all. Yes you need 'losers' as well as 'winners' to have an actual game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Both times i've played huttball this afternoon on the losing side i had 11 & 13 medals, valor was fine at around 3.5k but the commendations were kinda sucky at around 40. Wouldn't be so bad if we gained more comms from winning but i seemed to be getting around the same for a win as we did pre-patch. Not so much an issue when on my imp toons as we tend to win most of our matches but a killer on the republic side where a win is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebie Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 even having a debuff for leaving, isn't an answer. you want to give people incentive for staying. if I lose and quit and I get 15mins debuff. I won't be playing I will go do something else. you don't want to kick the person while they are down. I personally need to see that I'm progressing towards something for staying. be that a title, new gear ,a fancy mount or even as simple as seeing my weekly quest go up by 3. hell even give me a title for staying in 10 WZ until the end, or 100WZ until the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 That attitude will just cause people to not play, and then you have no queues at all. Yes you need 'losers' as well as 'winners' to have an actual game. Maybe today it will... <.< Like I said, it wasn't like that when I was a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 That attitude will just cause people to not play, and then you have no queues at all. Yes you need 'losers' as well as 'winners' to have an actual game. precisely. And not only that, but in life, do you not gain experience from failing? If not people would do something once, fail, and never do it again... If something is not life and death, success and failure go hand in hand in gaining experience. If there are two people competing one must win and one must lose. If the loser gains nothing from this, yet the winner gets better, then the path is predetermined for the loser to always lose and the winner to always win. This is not competition. Plus all the new features in the game require credits, and they removed the credit gain from WZs... are they in bed with the china gold farmers??? because pvp'ers will be forced to buy credits since they cant earn them... so very much wrong with some of the pvp changes I cant even begin to see the reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iboga Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This is exactly what I was thinking, lol. Okay, so quit the WZ and leave w/ nothing, or stay in and leave w/ something. You're lucky you get anything for losing. That's not how it was when I was a kid. /shrug The problem is... at least from what I've experienced, I got into a game, it's 4v8, we get steamrolled, I get 2-3 medals... I get nothing... nothing at all... you're telling me that's right? Why should my precious time I choose to spend in this game be rewarded with nothing at all. I'll go play a game where my time investment is worth something if that's the case, because this is just plain stupid... Honestly, this must be the worst development team ever to go along with probably the worst player base in history... this one will go down in the history books folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaya Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 A strange fix to a problem that didn't exist : / Funny thing is their attempt to stop people leaving or afking a losing wz has been made redundant by this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terifh Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I was hoping 1.2 would still carry the game another month for me, until D3 comes out. But that just killed the game for me. At least The Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition comes out in 5 days or so. I hope it keeps me busy until D3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) precisely. And not only that, but in life, do you not gain experience from failing? If not people would do something once, fail, and never do it again... If something is not life and death, success and failure go hand in hand in gaining experience. If there are two people competing one must win and one must lose. If the loser gains nothing from this, yet the winner gets better, then the path is predetermined for the loser to always lose and the winner to always win. This is not competition. Plus all the new features in the game require credits, and they removed the credit gain from WZs... are they in bed with the china gold farmers??? because pvp'ers will be forced to buy credits since they cant earn them... so very much wrong with some of the pvp changes I cant even begin to see the reasoning. You're taking this a bit out of context. When I was young, we used to play video games like Street Fighter and such for fun. When you lost, you got to put in more quarters, and have other people rub your face in it. Also, you act as though the winners will always win simply because they won once. That's not the way it works. It's not a perpetual system of the winners continually winning, because WZs require strategy, teamwork, and the team makeups are random for the most part. It sucks that they removed the incentives (and even moreso that games STILL start w/ uneven numbers, causing an almost auto-loss), but let's not pretend that you HAVE to give the losers in a video game something. That's just this generation's penchant for self-entitlement. PS) Just for the record, I've seen tons of games turned around from 6v8 into wins. Most especially in Huttball. People tend to give up extremely easily in this game. Edited April 12, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebie Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Maybe today it will... <.< Like I said, it wasn't like that when I was a kid. in in what game was this? this is flawed logic, you can't apply the "back in my day, we learnt that if you lost you got nothing so we just got better". To any real world situation since in the real world, if you lose at something, you still start on a even playing field the next time. it's not like "oh you lost your last football match?, you start now at -20, and other team who won now starts at 20". No you start at 0-0. in Swtor it's not like that, if you lose and they win, you get handicapped more and more until it becomes impossible to win, no matter how skillful you are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdc Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I stay and play in losing warzones, giving it my all, because I don't want the reputation of being a quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebie Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 ah just saw your reply. ok lets take street fighter, when you lost you started again with full health, now how about every time you put a quarter in, you started with 3%percent less health?, how many time of losing do you think it would take, before you said stuff it I will go do something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 ah just saw your reply. ok lets take street fighter, when you lost you started again with full health, now how about every time you put a quarter in, you started with 3%percent less health?, how many time of losing do you think it would take, before you said stuff it I will go do something better. That's not what's happening at all though. You still start every single match at the exact same level you were before, or higher. Your stats aren't changing. You are not getting worse. Your opponent may have won this match, but you may not even SEE that same guy in the next match. It may be an entirely different team, your team may be better, it may be a WZ you're better at, etc. There are several factors you aren't taking into account in your slippery slope argument. It's not as linear as people are trying to make it sound here. Just because you lost a match does NOT mean you will automatically lose every match thereafter until the end of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stendarrs Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Okay, I don't know if I'm just misunderstanding or in denial after reading all this. Just so I'm clear, if you play through a full match of warzone (let's pretend it's a really close match of CW), regardless of your stats/medals, you get 0 (ZERO) commendations unless you win? Is this what I'm reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iboga Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 You're taking this a bit out of context. When I was young, we used to play video games like Street Fighter and such for fun. When you lost, you got to put in more quarters, and have other people rub your face in it. Also, you act as though the winners will always win simply because they won once. That's not the way it works. It's not a perpetual system of the winners continually winning, because WZs require strategy, teamwork, and the team makeups are random for the most part. It sucks that they removed the incentives (and even moreso that games STILL start w/ uneven numbers, causing an almost auto-loss), but let's not pretend that you HAVE to give the losers in a video game something. That's just this generation's penchant for self-entitlement. PS) Just for the record, I've seen tons of games turned around from 6v8 into wins. Most especially in Huttball. People tend to give up extremely easily in this game. The problem is... you have to. It is a must to give the losing team something, anything for their participation, because you are investing time and money, valuable moments of your life in this game you theoretically enjoy. If you are getting nothing in return there is no point... And essentially on smaller population servers the winners do perpetually win, because it's nearly always exactly the same teams... except they will keep getting better gear and you will stay static... broken system is broken... you just can't deny it man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Okay, I don't know if I'm just misunderstanding or in denial after reading all this. Just so I'm clear, if you play through a full match of warzone (let's pretend it's a really close match of CW), regardless of your stats/medals, you get 0 (ZERO) commendations unless you win? Is this what I'm reading? Yes, even if you stay and get *8* MEDALS, you get absolutely no rewards - no comms, no credits, no valor. The patch notes clearly state that the SCORE MATTERS. If you lose 6-0, even with *8* MEDALS you get NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebie Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Okay, I don't know if I'm just misunderstanding or in denial after reading all this. Just so I'm clear, if you play through a full match of warzone (let's pretend it's a really close match of CW), regardless of your stats/medals, you get 0 (ZERO) commendations unless you win? Is this what I'm reading? you get 40 comm, if you got to 8 medals. and winner get 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iboga Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Okay, I don't know if I'm just misunderstanding or in denial after reading all this. Just so I'm clear, if you play through a full match of warzone (let's pretend it's a really close match of CW), regardless of your stats/medals, you get 0 (ZERO) commendations unless you win? Is this what I'm reading? More or less... in all the games I've played now I've gotten nothing at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 you get 40 comm, if you got to 8 medals. and winner get 100 This is FALSE. You get 0 COMMS if you lose 6-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stendarrs Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yes, even if you stay and get *8* MEDALS, you get absolutely no rewards - no comms, no credits, no valor. The patch notes clearly state that the SCORE MATTERS. If you lose 6-0, even with *8* MEDALS you get NOTHING. Can some forgive my ignorance of other MMO's and tell me if this is the standard or if EAware has decided to try something new here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, all those WoW generation war zone/arena warriors love this type of system, isn't it great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDuke Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 exactly. ... Its a poorly thought out system if losing does not give at least 75% of what winning does... it only serves to create a gap between factions and ruin competitive pvp. EXACTLY And sadly, it reflects the same "thought" they have applied to almost EVERY PVP move they have made in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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