shaggscoob Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Before 1.2 some guilds wouldn't take a scoundrel healer, but now I'm going to be in highest demand And it only took nerfing the other two healing classes and buffing ours :/ It's nice to be wanted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 /flameon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I'm guessing you just bailed to healer when Concealment/Scrapper got nerfed. Those of us healers who played Operative/Scoundrel do not support these changes in the least. Just because they handed us a child sized poncho, doesn't make the golden shower any more tolerable. Edited April 10, 2012 by Xaearth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzoo Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 One of my guilds best healers is a scoundrel. tbh I never understand why people consider them bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 One of my guilds best healers is a scoundrel. tbh I never understand why people consider them bad. They aren't bad. That was the problem. We weren't doing poorly enough to trigger the dev's metric alarms. Operative/Scoundrel healers put out comparative healing numbers to the other two healers. The problem is, that's all we do. We had no utility, no group synergy, no survivability, and all of our CC and most of our damage was melee range. If they buffed the ship droid to put out comparable healing numbers to a player, it would have obsoleted us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Actually I've been sawbones/scrapper hybrid since I hit 50 months ago. I haven't tested the AoE heal changes yet (can't remember what the ability is called, I've never used it, kolto spray?), but it looks like it might have enough utility to spec pure heals... I dunno. Personally, I like the scrapper changes. It's almost as though they looked at my spec and said "how can we make this guy more awesome?" I feel sorry for pure scrappers and I feel REALLY sorry for dirty fighters, but these changes are completely OK to me That said, this post was probably more a troll attempt than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seront Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) One of my guilds best healers is a scoundrel. tbh I never understand why people consider them bad. The issue was that they had a considerably higher amount of micromanagement to do, and in general are more difficult to heal with. One of the main problems, or at least annoyances, is the requirement to have 2 stacks of the slow HoT to actually have it be really efficient. You basically have to play every encounter constantly counting down in your head to when you need to reapply a hot, else you just cost yourself a bunch of energy to recast it twice. If you have two populations of equally skilled players, half of them playing sage/sorc, and the other half player op/scoundrel, you're just more likely to find a sage/sorc capable of healing the content purely based on it being a lot easier. That's the reason almost all of our changes are quality of life. Now, at least, scoundrels have a little more flexibility in their resources and an aoe heal that isn't useless *and* ridiculous expensive. The improvement in output for a truly competent scoundrel is only going to increase very slightly, and that'll be because they actually have a usable aoe. It's really hilarious how people are like 'OMG scoundrels are the best now.' Especially when they haven't even seen them in action for the most part. Edited April 10, 2012 by Seront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzoo Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) What? The only thing they compare poorly to is sages. They bring a battle rez and a spammable HoT. If I'm not mistaken they also are more or less guaranteed a heal that is both instant cast and powerful (and spammable!?) in cases where players are below 30% hp; I can't tell you how often I cringed on my commando during the ~2 second cast of my heal on a nearly dead player. Smuggle is mildly useful for sneaking CC'ers into favorable positions, and they themselves bring a CC that can be used pre-fight. I'll take your word for it that their offspec dps is awful, though I'd argue that it's not particularly important. I'd say defense screen is approximately as effective as Reactive shield. I'm sure they're a bit squishier in general but if armor was the difference between life and death for a healer then the op was probably going south anyway. I'll agree that keeping track of the HoT was probably more skill-intensive than either of the other two healers' abilities Edited April 10, 2012 by Arzoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 The issue was that they had a considerably higher amount of micromanagement to do, and in general are more difficult to heal with. One of the main problems, or at least annoyances, is the requirement to have 2 stacks of the slow HoT to actually have it be really efficient. You basically have to play every encounter constantly counting down in your head to when you need to reapply a hot, else you just cost yourself a bunch of energy to recast it twice. If you have two populations of equally skilled players, half of them playing sage/sorc, and the other half player op/scoundrel, you're just more likely to find a sage/sorc capable of healing the content purely based on it being a lot easier. Now, at least, scoundrels have a little more flexibility in their resources and an aoe heal that isn't useless *and* ridiculous expensive. Personally what I've seen is if you play scoundrel right and are assigned your own group of 4 in an op instead of being expected to "keep the ops group up", then I've seen scoundrel outperform the other healers. I'm talking on Live. Also, our single target healing seems to be the best, from the comparisons I've done with sages and commandos. Although, I definitely agree that we're the trickiest to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 The buff to Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't that big at all. Essentially, it'll only help the bad healers. The only notable change is the alteration to the AoE heal. Ultimately, your HPS won't go up at all. These are quality of life changes, it'll make healing easier, it won't allow you to heal anymore or less. So if you were good before, not much will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 One of my guilds best healers is a scoundrel. tbh I never understand why people consider them bad.Sigh. Why must people make posts like this? "I saw so-and-so do such-and-such, therefore they are fine". You do not play the class. You cannot know about the class from second-hand experience. Why not do some research on the matter? Go to the healing forum and you will see many posts detailing why they were the worst healer. Being "fine" does not make a class "viable". Being able to complete all content does not make all classes equal. When a group is looking for a healer, would they rather have a Sorc healer or an Op healer? A Merc healer or an Op healer? Right now I'm sitting in near-full Rakata gear and have completed all content on hard. But the sad thing is, a group would still rather have a Sorc in all Columi without any experience in operations. You don't think this is a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustehbus Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) We had no utility, no group synergy, no survivability, and all of our CC and most of our damage was melee range. lol wut? You think you had no survivability? lololol Edited April 10, 2012 by Gustehbus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 The buff to Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't that big at all. Essentially, it'll only help the bad healers. The only notable change is the alteration to the AoE heal. Ultimately, your HPS won't go up at all. These are quality of life changes, it'll make healing easier, it won't allow you to heal anymore or less. So if you were good before, not much will change. I agree for the most part, but that extra stack of UH means I can drop 2 Emergency medpacks every other rotation. That IS actually additional heals, therefore my HPS will increase slightly. Also, on the occasion I need to use diagnostic scan, that has been improved, so you'll see a tiny increase there as well. Also, with UH lasting longer I will be able to heal faster fight-to fight, so momentum won't be such a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Sigh. Why must people make posts like this? "I saw so-and-so do such-and-such, therefore they are fine". You do not play the class. You cannot know about the class from second-hand experience. Why not do some research on the matter? Go to the healing forum and you will see many posts detailing why they were the worst healer. Being "fine" does not make a class "viable". Being able to complete all content does not make all classes equal. When a group is looking for a healer, would they rather have a Sorc healer or an Op healer? A Merc healer or an Op healer? Right now I'm sitting in near-full Rakata gear and have completed all content on hard. But the sad thing is, a group would still rather have a Sorc in all Columi without any experience in operations. You don't think this is a problem? This I agree with. I think the big problem is not a sage/sorc's ability to output HPS, but simply the fact that they can do it so easily. If you have a op and a sorc and you don't have a rapport with either of them, you'll choose the sorc, simply because you know you're taking a smaller risk on the skill of the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seront Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) What? The only thing they compare poorly to is sages. They bring a battle rez and a spammable HoT. If I'm not mistaken they also are more or less guaranteed a heal that is both instant cast and powerful (and spammable!?) in cases where players are below 30% hp; I can't tell you how often I cringed on my commando during the ~2 second cast of my heal on a nearly dead player. Smuggle is mildly useful for sneaking CC'ers into favorable positions, and they themselves bring a CC that can be used pre-fight. I'll take your word for it that their offspec dps is awful, though I'd argue that it's not particularly important. I'd say defense screen is approximately as effective as Reactive shield. I'm sure they're a bit squishier in general but if armor was the difference between life and death for a healer then the op was probably going south anyway. I'll agree that keeping track of the HoT was probably more skill-intensive than either of the other two healers' abilities 1) I've never found a use for smuggle except for as a "hyuck hyuck, hey guys, you're all invisible!" Sure, you *could* use it, but there's no point when it's takes less time and coordination without it and isn't necessary. 2) Spammable HoT? The hot is slow, expensive, and needs two stacks constantly up to really make it worthwhile. If you try to spam it you will be in low regen territory almost immediately. 3) The spammable instant is nice, I'll give you that, but it doesn't heal for that much and it's still on the global cooldown. When it crits it might hit for like 2.5k in full buffed and in Rakata, I can't remember the exact value. The main slow heal, I think when fully buffed crits for 5800. I've gotten crits for 6600, but I think that was with a relic+adrenal. So, since that cast time (comparable to GCD), is not that much longer, relying on the that skill cuts your healing rate by more than half. 4) Defense screen absorbs about 2400 damage I believe. Edited April 10, 2012 by Seront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I agree for the most part, but that extra stack of UH means I can drop 2 Emergency medpacks every other rotation. That IS actually additional heals, therefore my HPS will increase slightly. Also, on the occasion I need to use diagnostic scan, that has been improved, so you'll see a tiny increase there as well. Also, with UH lasting longer I will be able to heal faster fight-to fight, so momentum won't be such a problem. No, the extra TA will only help in a RNG way. You will always want one stack and that is it, if it every exceeds that, you will want to spend it. The only time that the 3 stacks will come in handy, is while you have one and during a cast of KI, your HoTs proc another TA and then the TA from KI goes to waste, that is it. In no way is this "additional heals" and it's influence on your HPS is negligible at best. Rarely, for a serious healing situation will you need to cast SP as it procs the GCD, which means 1.5 seconds have to pass before you can cast your KI again, which is a long time. Edited April 10, 2012 by stephenjohnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seront Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 They aren't bad. That was the problem. We weren't doing poorly enough to trigger the dev's metric alarms. Operative/Scoundrel healers put out comparative healing numbers to the other two healers. The problem is, that's all we do. We had no utility, no group synergy, no survivability, and all of our CC and most of our damage was melee range. If they buffed the ship droid to put out comparable healing numbers to a player, it would have obsoleted us. I'm pretty sure slice droid is like 30 meters. Tranq dart is close range though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 What? The only thing they compare poorly to is sages. They bring a battle rez and a spammable HoT. The "spammable HoT" is an energy hog, and lolworthy healing. There's a reason you only see good Operatives stacking it on two people at most outside of FPs. If I'm not mistaken they also are more or less guaranteed a heal that is both instant cast and powerful (and spammable!?) in cases where players are below 30% hp; I can't tell you how often I cringed on my commando during the ~2 second cast of my heal on a nearly dead player. Lol? Powerful? The only power in it is the fact that it is "free". Note the quotes. It costs our secondary resource, even on targets <30% hp though it is refunded. It's been a couple months since I played my Op, but I want to say you're looking at crits of ~2-2.5k? Smuggle is mildly useful for sneaking CC'ers into favorable positions, and they themselves bring a CC that can be used pre-fight. Uh. No. It doesn't give the people it effects a stealth level bonus, so they're going to be spotted from miles away regardless of PvP or PvE. I'd say defense screen is approximately as effective as Reactive shield. I'm sure they're a bit squishier in general but if armor was the difference between life and death for a healer then the op was probably going south anyway. Wrong again. Our shield sucks. Plain and simple. It eats one maybe two base attacks (free/filler/auto-attack)? I'll agree that keeping track of the HoT was probably more skill-intensive than either of the other two healers' abilities And why do we bother keeping track of it? Not because the healing is all that awesome, but because we want the TA/UH proc from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) lol wut? You think you had no survivability? lololol Troll harder. An ability that, by its very function, turns you into a paperweight does not equate to survivability. I'm pretty sure slice droid is like 30 meters. Tranq dart is close range though. /facepalm Edited April 10, 2012 by Xaearth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seront Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I agree for the most part, but that extra stack of UH means I can drop 2 Emergency medpacks every other rotation. That IS actually additional heals, therefore my HPS will increase slightly. Also, on the occasion I need to use diagnostic scan, that has been improved, so you'll see a tiny increase there as well. Also, with UH lasting longer I will be able to heal faster fight-to fight, so momentum won't be such a problem. Yeah, but those EMRPs are still on the global cooldown and are weak heals. If it increases your HPS it'll be by a small amount. It just gives you the ability to be more rapidly reactive when you need to get a small bit of healing to two people ASAP. Also, just having a bit of a buffer knowing you likely still have upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alderdale Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Before 1.2 some guilds wouldn't take a scoundrel healer, but now I'm going to be in highest demand And it only took nerfing the other two healing classes and buffing ours :/ It's nice to be wanted... A healer class that got buffed loves the changes, imageine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 No, the extra TA will only help in a RNG way. You will always want one stack and that is it, if it every exceeds that, you will want to spend it. The only time that the 3 stacks will come in handy, is while you have one and during a cast of KI, your HoTs proc another TA and then the TA from KI goes to waste, that is it. In no way is this "additional heals" and it's influence on your HPS is negligible at best. Rarely, for a serious healing situation will you need to cast SP as it procs the GCD, which means 1.5 seconds have to pass before you can cast your KI again, which is a long time. Well, in a perfect world, yes. But in an ops, it is definitely extra healing due to the fact that things are chaotic at times and I can't sit there and watch every little tick happen to be 100% efficient. If I simply factor in a second EMP every other rotation, then I can guarantee the extra heals per second to take advantage of my extra UH. Heck, I might even see how it goes with an extra EMP EVERY rotation if I'm doing my usual thing of keeping HOTs up on 4-5 people. That said, the real point of my post was to say that we are now going to be the number one healer, but it took nerfing the other healers to get us there. I think that still points to the fact that we were a bit underpowered before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seront Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 No, the extra TA will only help in a RNG way. You will always want one stack and that is it, if it every exceeds that, you will want to spend it. The only time that the 3 stacks will come in handy, is while you have one and during a cast of KI, your HoTs proc another TA and then the TA from KI goes to waste, that is it. In no way is this "additional heals" and it's influence on your HPS is negligible at best. Rarely, for a serious healing situation will you need to cast SP as it procs the GCD, which means 1.5 seconds have to pass before you can cast your KI again, which is a long time. I disagree, though it depends on the fight. I'll be holding onto a full stack (minus the usual UWM+EMP cycle) in case I need to burst heal. Kolto pack still has that nice crit set bonus. I'll have to see when it's live, but I could see double casting kolto pack if I need to quickly get some heals in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solthar Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 A healer class that got buffed loves the changes, imageine that. Yup, as a Bounty Hunter / (ex)Bodyguard I am glad that someone actually enjoys the healing changes. The rest of us got absolutely shafted. With no lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seront Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Troll harder. An ability that, by its very function, turns you into a paperweight does not equate to survivability. /facepalm What are you facepalming.... http://www.torhead.com/ability/bdu7cfy/slice-droid 30 meters... It's not usable all that often, but it's not useless. Edited April 10, 2012 by Seront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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