Team Bioware - The Definitive Issues That You're Not Addressing or Responding To

[MaximusRex]

I think there are a lot of great ideas here. Most I like or am neutral on.

 

What I don't agree with are moving more missions to terminals. I don't like terminals, you don't get social points for terminals, and they basically bypass the whole idea of a voiced MMO. I don't disagree that they could do a better job with organizing side quests to fit better into the planet stories, but I just don't like terminals.

 

Guild tools are always welcome, but I doubt you will get much traction in being able to rate guilds. The problem is in a MMO game the community tends to be vindictive and that leads to flaming and other drama, and in order to try and prevent that would mean they would have to provide even more people to try and monitor and clean it up. I will accept, without knowing you, that you are probably mature enough to give honest feedback on guild management, but I hope that you can also accept, just by looking at the general forums here accept that most of the forum community is not able to engage in adult conversation.

[Jawstheshark]

Some good thoughts in here.

 

Nice post.

[jgelling]

Amazing post - exactly right from what I can see.

[Daethorz]

I suggest bioware read this and take notes.

[Deewe]

Well that was quite a post, OP.

 

I like 100% agree with everything you said. Disturbing.

 

 

Few things:

The story in TOR is mostly bland and unappealing, way far from a Timothy Zahn novel and dialog choices are meaningless = boring.

Thing is they were afraid of implementing real choices in a game without saves, ie: you can't kill your companions anymore even if they betray you.

Could have been mitigated with an option to confirm all choices at the end of a cut scene before going forward.

 

 

Adding a separate last name for characters can technically be done in a couple of hours and tested in not that much either. The devs (James and Daniel) are, so far, stubborn and yes it sucks.

 

The music doesn't feel like SW. It does not add to the scene nor gives you a feeling of SW. They should have used the movie ones instead of these or get a good composer.

 

Travel: start adding travel back to space ship, ditch the orbital stations and the lifts to go to the space ships = improved.

 

Pace of leveling is too fast if you PvP or do space mission along questing: on top of legacy XP perks add a stop/slow down XP

 

Gear customization is not only lacking (try to hide shoulder pads or cloak/backpack) but also the Mods UI is a pain:

WTB wardrobes, appearance tabs and gear dyes.

 

Sith corruption is indeed a miss with non force user classes : check this out

 

PvP queue: players won't like to be in the waiting room but it would work if when a player dies he's replaced by someone that was waiting. Not perfect but as it's instanced it would help balancing teams.

 

... Guilds, I do avoid big guilds like the plague for the exact same reasons you do. so much for a guild summit! When is the PUG summit?

 

End game guide: good idea!

 

 

Top of that the game needs more sandboxes element, improve RP, socialization and make the world feel more alive and less static.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Deewe

[Verdan]

I have to strongly disagree, with this.

 

If the NPC quests were reduced to just a terminal and some text...

 

I said "more" quests to terminals, not "all", and there are already "some". This is intended to free up resources from generic quests given by strangers (NPCs), to develop more story-depth quests for Companions, e.g. Crew, or other "recurring" characters (there are hardly any currently) to add and enhance story depth - the ensemble cast that is sorely lacking.

 

Therefore, with more consideration to what was written in the OP than a quick skim, I doubt we're in conflict on this matter. In such a diverse community in any MMO, I'm quite surprised by the amount of consensus demonstrated to the OP's points so far.

 

While Team Bioware leaders haven't responded to this lengthy contribution, whether in rebuke or not to being told they're missing the mark on many fundamentals, I like to think they're seeing the message and the truth of it. They've already either fixed some issues, or have commented on coming attractions that do. Such as expanded Companion content - e.g. Story, Fourth Pillar - and Group Finders. Let's see how well they change gaps and sacred cows into hubris and success... which if they can, I'd call that a demonstration of good project leadership and a maturing leadership overall.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Verdan

[Pairaka]

Very good post, and I agree with a lot of it. The Legacy thing is just...so not well thought out. I have characters on a server that don't even know each other, and yet they're forced to be part of the same Legacy. I just rationalize that by either not displaying the Legacy name or using the same logic as "well, that's a common name..."

 

I can understand why they implemented it, though, but forcing all characters on a server to be part of the same Legacy is just restrictive and short-sighted. It could perhaps be helped by giving an option at character creation as to whether or not this character is to be part of the Legacy on that server so if you wanted siblings, or characters that someone relate to one another (as an ally, or offspring) you could still have that option, but if you didn't...

 

This gets really confusing, as you mentioned, with alien species.

 

And I whole-heartedly agree with concerns about Companions. As someone who has loved romancing her available partners, I'm not even allowed to list them as a spouse on the Legacy family tree screen. And once you get that last conversation... nothing. It's kind of sad, really. And I've not seen any mention about new stuff for existing companions; just that there might be new companions in future expansions.

 

Our ships... I have a love/hate relationship with my ship. For one it's home, and I feel like a million bucks every time I step foot in it (just simply because it's *mine*), and yet again... It's so lonely at the same time. Your companions never move around, you can't interact with them...Heck, I can't even sit on the *chairs* in most of them. Imagine my surprise to find the holocoms on my Jedi Knight's ship! Something new and intriguing! And I spent the next hour logging into my other characters' ships to see if I'd missed anything. But nothing... I understand it's probably way down the list on priorities, but it would be really nice to be able to customize our ships some how--but without having to make a black hole of my wallet at the same time!

 

I have more to say, but have gotten long winded enough as it is. Thank you for a great post.

[JediElf]

I said "more" quests to terminals, not "all", and there are already "some". This is intended to free up resources from generic quests given by strangers (NPCs), to develop more story-depth quests for Companions, e.g. Crew, or other "recurring" characters (there are hardly any currently) to add and enhance story depth - the ensemble cast that is sorely lacking.

 

Therefore, with more consideration to what was written in the OP than a quick skim, I doubt we're in conflict on this matter. In such a diverse community in any MMO, I'm quite surprised by the amount of consensus demonstrated to the OP's points so far.

 

I appreciate your reply, and consideration of my post.

 

While yes their are some missions that are just a text box, I will confess that those are almost always the ones a skip. If it's not voiced, then I just pass it by, and if the text box ever popped up from an NPC, my face would hit my desk, repeatedly.

 

I do understand the concept of what you are tying to say, and in a way I agree. Like you said we are not in conflict over this, but I do was to reiterate that I don't think that those voiced 'strangers' need to be sacrificed for the sake of the overall plot.

 

It's strange but the 'kill 10 rats' quest just seems so much better when it's being told to me, as opposed to just ticking it off from a terminal...voice makes a big difference to the smallest of things.

 

I will say though the prospect of more Companion chatter would be quite nice..I'd love to tease Corso more *ahem* I mean talk to him more.

 

To me adding your ideas and suggestions to the mighty 4th pillar, and keeping NPCs intact and speaking, would be the ideal solution.

 

Edited May 30, 2012 by JediElf

[RJMazz]

The hell is this doing in the second page.

[Brool]

Agree with some, disagree with some. Post deserves to stay on top for discussion tho.

[Verdan]

The hell is this doing in the second page.

 

Thanks for all the supporters of putting forth these topics for attention.

[EeuwigLijden]

I agree with most everything here, except the leveling, it's already too fast as it is, that's one of the reasons why people are reaching 50 and dropping their subscriptions, the other being what you said, lack of much end game content..

 

Aside from that, good post OP, I especially agree with the music and companions idea. There isn't much music and what is there only appears during specific situations, i.e. fighting against an important or strong enemy. Where's all the classic Star Wars music? Where's duel of the Fates? Imperial March plays maybe ONCE as far as I can recall? Where's that slow version of the Star Wars theme? Where's the Cantina music?

 

As for the companions, I found them to be more like window dressing, they should be commenting on practically everything you do, but they only rarely comment and only during class quests. Their A.I. also isn't very customizable, I'd like to be able to set the A.I. so that it would do things like try to draw aggro, or only attack who I'm attacking, and so on.

Also, why is it that some of the more inhuman characters aren't capable of actually showing anything they're wearing? Why can't there be some specific equipment designed for them like their unique equipment that could change their appearance?

[Verdan]

Great points, Eeuwig, great observation about companions in not currently having behavior modes that players can set. We've seen that done very effectively in other MMO's as a best of breed design tenet.

 

I see what you're saying about leveling, and I think it comes down to play style. We continue to hear about the levels of complexity they have and continue to build upon for end game progression, all the way to Campaign and Black Hole and Augmented readiness for layers of difficulty levels in instanced content. Wow. As someone who likes multiple avatars and classes, that intimidates me to think its hard enough and takes enough time to get one avatar up through content that it seems impossible to enjoy another class to any similar depth... That all I want is to get through that grind of leveling to get started on the grind of end-game raid readiness. Pile on to that, that in any other MMO it always seems that as soon as you feel you got one avatar up to snuff to do Hard/Nightmare, they raise the level cap and we're not only starting all over, but for most, they never even got that far despite trying to. It's a real rat race and disappointing. So, for end game players, particularly when we want to enjoy multiple classes, we can't get to end game soon enough to get started on that climb.

 

So, I'm not setting the design foundations, only responding to the environment and struggling to keep up to the end-game grind and get there, and goodness forbid actually have some time to enjoy the progression cap for a bit (if ever getting there with a slow server and personal time constraints) and play another class to similar heights, and help others - before a level cap increase hits us. For those who want to meander and enjoy the journey to 50... the reality is that all that end game content has to be a low priority for most of them (unless they're also among the career gamers who can afford 60+ hrs a week online) and will likely not attain end game progression before a level cap is raised - and current content becomes passé for end gamers as the latter is moving on to new content and gear and a new rat race... *sigh*

 

If at the end of the day, the meanderers (nothing wrong with that as I, too, tend to want to complete everything before I leave a planet) wanting to hit every element of a planet's content... all good, please do and enjoy every nook and cranny, but for those who value end-game and gear progression, and related challenges and teamwork... Get me to endgame much quicker, there's so much to bite off and get done.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Verdan

[Darka]

Nice List,

Guilds especially. Its like they just forgot about them,

[jgelling]

Aside from that, good post OP, I especially agree with the music and companions idea. There isn't much music and what is there only appears during specific situations, i.e. fighting against an important or strong enemy. Where's all the classic Star Wars music? Where's duel of the Fates? Imperial March plays maybe ONCE as far as I can recall? Where's that slow version of the Star Wars theme? Where's the Cantina music?

 

I think the music situation is especially strange - even with volume up to 100% there's rarely any music and when there is it's often difficult to hear. And it's so random: e.g., there's this one outpost on the ice planet Hoth where the game cues up the music used on the water planet Manaan from KOTOR - but it fades out as soon as you walk away from that outpost.

 

If that's the score they want to use for Hoth, why isn't that used consistently at all bases and in cantinas? Music in this game just comes and goes at random and rarely is more than a muffle.

Edited June 3, 2012 by jgelling

[EeuwigLijden]

Hey! Hey! Keep this going people! Don't let this excellent thread get buried.

[snwmnx]

I came into this thread with a degree of pessimism and cynicism about what I thought the OP was about.

 

I leave this thread somewhat impressed and humbled.

 

I agree with almost everything the OP has written.

[Mirdthestrill]

Misunderstanding, right angle? Are you kidding me?

 

They are fundamentals of MMO, which have some synergy with RP and RP's natural affinity with the MMO gaming model.

 

The point is, that you wanting to tell me "the right angle" to look at it, is to force your sacred cows from your perspective on others. That's no better than Bioware's behavior in doing exactly the same thing, in that in many of these cases we're absolutely dealing with the sacred cows of a few individuals (or less) being Force fed on players regardless of their preferences and expectations of MMO fundamentals. This isn't a KOTOR RPG. This is an MMO.

 

Setting aside the obvious and unequivicable facts of some points of the OP, such as the huge gap or missed opportunity to add depth and richness (or any) to music, or the lack of depth of an ensemble cast that brings a story to life... Let's just stick with the naming conventions. What we do have is someone's sacred cow, rather than OPTIONS represented by a flexible system that suits various players' styles, needs, and preferences. They took a narrow approach, suiting one perspective aligned to (likely) one individual acting as a design autocrat, rather than considering a broader understanding of diverse community needs and need for flexibility.

I'm not trying to force my perspective on you. I'm trying to tell you that this wasn't the perspective Bioware designed it in mind with.

[wutru]

@OP nice list, but you just wasted your time. The lead dev at Bioware gets to decide, and so far, his vision isn't saving swtor. Most of what the OP listed should've been thought of before the designers wrote anything down. Any veteran MMO player should have seen why swtor failed, because they have decades of experience of what works, and what doesn't.

[wutru]

The issue isn't the pace of leveling. It's the repetition of it. We're forced to go through the same planets from 1-10 for each Species. We are restricted from taking a Sith to Hutta, as an example. This is because our class quests are specific to each planet. Very, very bad design.

 

The Advanced Class system is also very bad. EQ2 tried to do this and it backfired. People want to know right away what kind of class they want, without having to waste 3-4 hours to choose an Advanced Class.

 

Scrap the Advanced Class system, and let us choose from character creation. I can't believe Bioware overlooked these two major flaws that never worked in past MMO's. It's really astounding.

Edited June 8, 2012 by wutru

[LilSaihah]

Scrap the Advanced Class system, and let us choose from character creation. I can't believe Bioware overlooked these two major flaws that never worked in past MMO's. It's really astounding.

 

I personally don't see much of a problem with Advanced Classes, except for the people clawing for AC respecs. If there were more tutorials or introductions or somesuch to detail exactly what you'll be doing in your chosen AC, though, that would be great.

[wutru]

I personally don't see much of a problem with Advanced Classes, except for the people clawing for AC respecs. If there were more tutorials or introductions or somesuch to detail exactly what you'll be doing in your chosen AC, though, that would be great.

 

People wouldn't want them as badly though if we started at lvl 1 with them. They are only complaining because they have to go through 10 levels again just to see if that class is what they really want. It's just tedious and restricting. It's bad design.

[Ramahospitality]

Completely agree. You have said and discussed much of what is wrong with this game. There are a lot of things mentioned that aren't being out right announced for 1.3. We'll have to wait and see. Personally, if BW doesn't get on the ball, this game will die after 1.4.

 

Lets keep this at the forum top.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Ramahospitality

[Kleve]

I wanted to put a /gets popcorn emote in here but then I realized this thread will probably go the way of redmarx's.

[Verdan]

Added Section VIII regarding the broken client/server sync'ing of players and mobs, Tab targeting and other related functionality that is broken.