PVP in 1.2 what is viable spec? request opinion from 1.2 PTS for SORC

[Unao]

I have decided to roll with 0/20/21 on the free spec for PVP. However, that is subject to change depending

on how it goes in the WZ's . I am no healer, and this will be a fairly versatile spec...I hope.

[VainEldritch]

I have decided to roll with 0/20/21 on the free spec for PVP. However, that is subject to change depending

on how it goes in the WZ's . I am no healer, and this will be a fairly versatile spec...I hope.

 

I'll be sticking with my current spec and then changing out as I see the numbers come in from my shiny new parser... but as I could not test on PTS I'll start by using a baseline with which I am familiar (my current hybrid spec) and go form there.

 

Well... I will if I can pulll myself out of 0,0 null sec shenanigans for long enough to care, that is...

 

Edited April 11, 2012 by VainEldritch

[Kastchey]

jugg : 2 sec stun on jump to person, 4 sec stun on force choke, 4 sec stun on backhand, 2 sec stun on force push (or whatever it's called) , 2 sec stun on the next jump to (since push resets jump) - that's 14 seconds right? Of course jugg gets the AOE slow and mez - very very nice class .

[thorizdin]

jugg : 2 sec stun on jump to person, 4 sec stun on force choke, 4 sec stun on backhand, 2 sec stun on force push (or whatever it's called) , 2 sec stun on the next jump to (since push resets jump) - that's 14 seconds right? Of course jugg gets the AOE slow and mez - very very nice class .

 

Um, except as soon as you get to the second mez in your chain the target of that will be a full resolve. The 2 second stun on Force Charge is so bad that most Jugs won't spec into because it begins at the start of the charge (when you're 30 meters away), only last 2 seconds from that point, and nearly fills the target's resolve bar by itself.

[Kastchey]

see that's the beauty of it - I can spread those 14 seconds of stun without going over the blue limit, a 2 s stun and a 4 sec stun do not send resolve into white , then wait some more do a 2 s push stun, throw saber , jump to target again , still resolve is at blue, then back hand and that sends him into white resolve...

[Daellia]

a 2 s stun and a 4 sec stun do not send resolve into white

 

Yes they do. Stuns are worth 200 resolve per second, 1000 being white, so a 2 second and 4 second stun would generate 1200 Resolve (which then because the second one hit or exceeded 1000, would generate 50% more, so 1600 Resolve, 16 seconds of immunity). The issue is, there are reports of Choke not interacting with Resolve properly.

[Karkais]

- Hybrid Wrath - CL dead (clearly stated in notes)

 

Thats not enough to kill the hybrid spec however. CL was just one part of it.

 

o wait, is this another ninja PVP thread? asdfadfadfasfda

 

how hard is it to type "pvp" in the thread title?

Edited April 12, 2012 by Karkais

[KraGiEFunctional]

I don't believe Sorcerers PvP gameplay will change for the healers out there. I believe the resurgence change bothers us a little, but it makes alacrity a much more fantastic stat. The only reason I don't favor that stat is due to the amount of force it drains when you're spamming heals, but I don't think it will be that bothersome if resurgence reduces the cost of our big heal by 30%.

[NewObsidian]

The problem is you're stuck playing a gimmick class no matter what.

 

You're not longer a damage class regardless- you're 'support damage', as in, you can't kill anyone but you can help real classes kill people (kind of like a companion).

 

You aren't a healer supression class, your tools are simply bad for keeping a healer locked down.

 

You can go for a mix of CC and have nothing else- even then, you're a CC class with a specced instant single target mez that fills resolve- while other classes get aoe instant mezzes for free. You get one stun, if you get a cast root that's pretty much the point of your spec- the root. If you get the mez bubble and knockback root- that's the gimmick of your spec because it's in a tree with poorer than poor dps.

 

Or, you can go healing but only have a purpose when nobody's on you, and, run out of force so fast it'll likely be more beneficial to die than to waste time trying to get your force back.

 

I've been playing around with the builds as well, and for the most part this is accurate. True I can outlast some players with some well placed sprints and force speed dashes, but going toe-2-toe with BH or Mercs is still like punching a wet paper bag. I also noticed Juggies are a tough lot to deal with (that whole less dmg rage thing can be a pain) nowadays, if not harder than before the patch. At any rate, my damage rating to a nice hit, but I still able to carve out 11 or 13 medals during a match. Sorcerers now have to really know the class, they technical as hell and you really need to (I.E.; SHOULD) modify the hell outta of your gear, since some pvp items are now mod-compliant (white lightsabers ftw).

 

All I can say is get some BM or WH gear if you've reached that level, get in a good guild and raid (or buy the best mods) and lace your sorceror. It's a proven fact that the "favored stat" sorcerers out damage those with just BM/Warhero sets, and yes even those with Rakata equips. To be a threat now, build your tree and gear around it.

[tonysnod]

Feels like a support class to me...

 

Sorcerers are not effective solo... you gotta be with another player to be effective.

 

We do not have 8 second stuns, we get (4 seconds)

We do not have quick burst damage, our big hitter is over time and can be interrupted

We do not have 12 second slows, we get (4 seconds)

 

I could list more but you get the picture i hope...

 

Now some of us are better skilled at playing our sorcs than others and so on.

When I find myself in situations where I'm trying to take out a lone target separated from their group (or they got me separated from mine), my effectivness against that player all depends on their class, their gear, and their own skill. But unless I'm fighting another sorcerer or sage, we are out gunned, out stunned, and out snared in most of those encounters.

 

SO.... since we cannot effectivly solo like the other 7 classes.... that leaves us having to have support with us or running as support with someone else.

 

I hate that I have to agree with what you've said here, especially considering all 8 classes are supposed to be "heroic" and "epic" and all sorts of other adjectives that excited me in the trailer vids I've been watching for the last year and change...

 

Had I known I was signing on as Robin to the other 7 classes' Batman, I wouldn't have bought the CE.

 

As for my skill-tree spec suggestions, it's a little complicated:

1) Login with your sorc, type /dance (that's all we're really good at now)

2) Log back out, uninstall game. (yes, it will hurt)

3) Go to Barnes'n'Noble, purchase book from your genre of choice. (I suggest Jim Butcher)

4) Read for entertainment (it's worked for me since 1.2).

[alanisUDL]

The very good DPS sorcs on my server all went Madness, and those players are still topping damage charts in virtually every warzone, some even beating the best Marauder on the server by 10-15% each game.

 

Note: this is top geared premades vs premades. no bads were used in these games.

[fungihoujo]

The very good DPS sorcs on my server all went Madness, and those players are still topping damage charts in virtually every warzone, some even beating the best Marauder on the server by 10-15% each game.

 

Note: this is top geared premades vs premades. no bads were used in these games.

 

Damage charts are very irrelevant- they mean something on a boss fight in pve- in pvp, the ability to dump a bunch of dots on a team means little.

 

Also- pretty much everything we expected from the patch was right- as a healer, the only class that's possible to survive is a sorc, since their burst is so low. Might be fine if other classes didn't have such insane burst in comparison. If they truly are the best players on the server as you say- they know how useless the class is regardless of the end of a match.

[RuDarthPatrick]

Hey guys. What can you say about 0.20.21

[Darth_Vampirius]

Prior to 1.2, this was a lightning class.

Now it's a Crushing Darkness class or a healing class... nothing else is useful in PVP. The main broken things are the FL nerf and the Expertise change... the latter being the biggest balance breaker since launch. Not surr whether to reroll or quit completely ... but I am jot even remotely happy with any pvp changes.

[alanisUDL]

Damage charts are very irrelevant- they mean something on a boss fight in pve- in pvp, the ability to dump a bunch of dots on a team means little.

 

Also- pretty much everything we expected from the patch was right- as a healer, the only class that's possible to survive is a sorc, since their burst is so low. Might be fine if other classes didn't have such insane burst in comparison. If they truly are the best players on the server as you say- they know how useless the class is regardless of the end of a match.

 

Damage charts, while not being definiative, is normally a fairly accurate portrayal of what happened in the particular warzone. Madness sorc are not actually getting a ton of their damage from Affliction, the only non-cooldown dot they have available. Good sorcs aren't wasting time casting tab-affliction on the enemy.

 

While they don't have one single instant big burst that you might see from a Jugg, PT, or Merc-- FL into DF into CD in rapid succession does provide a good hurting, even w/o Recklessness.

[Lansodw]

Damage charts are very irrelevant- they mean something on a boss fight in pve- in pvp, the ability to dump a bunch of dots on a team means little.

 

Also- pretty much everything we expected from the patch was right- as a healer, the only class that's possible to survive is a sorc, since their burst is so low. Might be fine if other classes didn't have such insane burst in comparison. If they truly are the best players on the server as you say- they know how useless the class is regardless of the end of a match.

 

It always ends in this circular argument.

 

"We don't do damage anymore"

"I do lots of damage"

"Damage doesn't mean anything when you don't kill anyone."

"I get lots of kills"

"They were obviously all bads."

 

My personal experiences with BM gear and a 3/7/31 spec have been overall positive since 1.2. I ran the standard damage heavy hybrid build pre-patch and loved it. The first few WZs after 1.2 with the new spec were rough. Really rough. I realized that I was fighting to play a new spec and style the way I played the old one. Once I got a feel for how I should be playing a CT build it got a lot easier.

 

I usually topped the dmg/kills chart before the patch. I still do after the patch. The only difference is that instead of having 5 other sorcs right below me on the charts it's now all marauders. The sorcs that did nothing but turret and didn't know much about playing their class suffered due to lack of adaptation. They now end up where they belong. At the bottom of the pile.

 

Of course damage alone does not win WZs, but it sure makes a difference. In both pugs and premades the damage I do matters because I direct it towards the objectives at hand. I don't DoT everything in sight to pad my numbers. I focus a target. The player attacking my ball carrier or the enemy ball carrier usually. One of my tasks in a premade is to pressure healers. Can I kill every healer I come across with the mashing of a few buttons? Of course not. I shouldn't be able to. I've found that effective use of my class, my spec, and my situational awareness allows me to come out victorious more times than not though. Using CT, slows, and stuns to get a healer out of position from his intended target. All the while loading him up with DoTs and damage. Saving the burst of CD and shock for when he's low and his big heal got interrupted. I'll even use an instant LS if CD is on cooldown and I'm just trying to get that last little bit of HP for a kill. I've jumped down into a battle for mid control in Huttball; stun one, whirlwind another, and CT a third melee to get them off of a healer. Ive tossed out a bunch of CC in seconds and given my team breathing room. Then moved on to focusing a damage target.

 

Does that make me a support class? By definition we're all support classes in a WZ. As the dynamics change from second to second everyone must support someone else. That's how you win.

 

When I get a marauder on me? RUN. DoT, slow, and stun him until he whitebars then use CT on him. Does it work every time? No. Usually it's a matter of who gets the jump. Am I okay with that being a weakness for me? Yes. Everyone has weaknesses and other people should be rewarded when they properly exploit mine for victory.

 

I've taken down lots of equally geared people 1v1. It's just a little harder now. Probably feels a little more fair from their perspective too. Win some. Lose some.

 

I certainly don't feel marginalized. The nerf hurt, but it wasn't the end of my world.

[Scoober]

Damage charts are very irrelevant- they mean something on a boss fight in pve- in pvp, the ability to dump a bunch of dots on a team means little.

 

Also- pretty much everything we expected from the patch was right- as a healer, the only class that's possible to survive is a sorc, since their burst is so low. Might be fine if other classes didn't have such insane burst in comparison. If they truly are the best players on the server as you say- they know how useless the class is regardless of the end of a match.

 

Damage is damage no matter how you slice it. How you can say it is irrelevant is insane. While I may not kill someone outright I have put a hurting on them and allowed another person to mop them up. Just about every match I was the top and if not the top with in the top three damage dealers. I had just as many kills as others but my damage was far above.

 

The key here is that while we do not do the killing we have weakened the enemy for another to easily go in take them out and keep moving. My goal was always to help those on the front line not to be the front line. DOT's can make a huge difference. Even more so now with the heal nerfs that are in place. People can also now only use one medpack. Makes that pesky DOT a whole new dish to deal with.

 

A really good scorceror knows that the best thing is not to tab spam affliction. Not to mention that if you are madness your life is DOTs. Sure you can spam FL but it does not do the bulk of your damage. You use that to get to your next time cast is an instant and put on your two DOT's then use your crushing darkness that is bolstered by your DOT's then rinse and repeat. Maybe some shocks thrown in from time to time.

 

But that will push you over the top in damage. You will leave people with one volley at less than half health but I can see how this would be considered nothing since they are not dead. But ask your team mates would they rather fight someone down from full health or fight someone that is crippled and I bet I know what the answer will be.

 

Damage is never irrelevant!

 

[Camueri]

Caveat - I am sub-50 (49) with my Sorc but I do have a BM Vanguard and I am familiar with the play style changes from sub-50 to 50.

 

My current and suggested build: 23/0/18. This build gets most of the best damage abilities from Madness and adds a lot of survivability thanks to 23 points in the healing tree. The build also gets the best crit chance multipliers, damage resistance, and AoE bonuses.

 

The build did take a hit in 1.2 due to the changes in force bending. When force-bending shortened the cast time of Dark Infusion only a player spec'd for fast interrupts could take me out 1v1, no one else could break through my self healing. In 1.2 I have to pay a lot more attention to my environment and stay mobile in order to keep myself standing, however, just resurgence and static barrier do a pretty good job of that and add a lot to my survivability. On the upside, my DPS output has slightly increased.

 

Some posters to this thread have indicated that the Sorc is now merely a utility class. I am not sure why this is being leveled as a criticism. Considering that War Zones are all objective based, not DPS or kills based, and especially considering the changes to the reward system for War Zones, I would much rather have a lot of utility than be a one trick pony. There is virtually no scenario in any WZ where the 23/0/18 build is not able to positively contribute:

 

Force Speed - time to target is always great, also makes a very potent offensive weapon in Huttball

 

Extrication - really great offensive tool in Huttball

 

Force Storm - Every WZ other than Huttball involves objective capture so the ability to cast with no cool down a massive coverage AoE is huge for defending. This ability also helps slow down and damage freight trains in Huttball. It also makes solo PVE leveling dead easy.

 

Static Barrier - An instant cast roughly 3k "preventive heal" that you can drop on targets every 20 seconds - 17 if wearing the right equipment set.

 

Death Field - Instant cast, AoE, capable of awarding damage medals not to mention help prevent caps and avoid LoS issues.

 

Overload - PBAoE knock-back is again very useful in WZ.

 

DPS - You wind up with a lot of good DPS abilities so there is always something up to choose from.

 

Healing - You can heal yourself for TTL improvements or heal your team if the situation warrants.

 

Force - Having played all of the base classes and most of the ACs I can tell you that the Sage/Sorc has by far the easiest energy management in the game. For a very long time our only limitation is cool down speed, no other class can claim that, which means you are able to keep your best abilities on target more often than other classes. Also, in the 23/0/18 build force lighting is a net force regeneration ability allowing you to both deal reasonable damage and recover for more DPS/Healing.

[bloodelfdude]

Just closing the loop since I am the OP in this thread, and this was started pre 1.2.

 

I've tried various builds since 1.2 released, but honestly, I no longer enjoy this game or want to spend time on it. I'm glad others have mastered the 1.2 sorcerer, and I'm sure I will be told L2P, but in this case, I'll pass; I will acknowledge that L2P may very well be it, but I just don't like the new mechanics and don't have the drive to L2P... and I will admit that the rewards system for losing certainly biases my lack of interest. My time expires tomorrow, and I won't be adding time. I used to spend 3-5 hours per day, every day, playing this game and it had hooks deep. Without intending to be dramatic, I'm honestly kind of amazed at how quickly it could kill off literally overnight, I expected to not like 1.2, but really I expected that my very strong interest in the game couldn't possibly die off so quick. I was mistaken. I've played a priest on wow since vanilla, and never felt this impacted by a nerf or game changes.

 

On a side note: Our favorite pizza joint is next to a gamestop... my son and I walked in there while waiting on our pizza yesterday, I asked the worker what was going on in MMO world (expecting to hear about pandas, tera, gw2, etc), the first words out of his mouth were "old republic is sinking like the titanic". I seriously doubt this guy had any unique insight, but I found it interesting that was his first comment... his second comment was that he got into the beta for wow and is liking it.

 

To all those sorcs adapting and moving on, I'm impressed, I'm sure all are very skilled gamers. It's hard to say if it's my lack of skills, or just lack of willingness to accept this big of a change, but regardless, I'm calling it quits... no regrets over time or money... I probably shouldn't have farm so hard for BM sets, but oh well... who knew.

 

Best Regards

[Unao]

I have respec'd many times trying out various builds. The one that works for my personal play style and brings

some nice total damage in WZ's is the 1/12/28. You can move a few points around in madness

and Lightning to suit your style and survivability ..

Edited April 18, 2012 by Unao