Who Swtor was made for.

[DarthDetonate]

This is not a game aimed at the hardcore. Many HC gamers (like myself) are guilty of trying to make this game what it simply isn't.

 

As the Bioware Rep on the Pax East Panel said, to Paraphrase "your focused demographic is usually dictated by how much the game cost to make. In the future when these game can be made faster and for less money, I'm sure we'll see a lot of games aimed a niche audiences like the hardcore but for now, you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

 

When I quit WoW years ago, I said i would wait for Swtor, as it seemed to have what i wanted from a game and after 7 years, it wasn't set in Azeroth.

 

 

What i hadn't (but should have) anticipated was the targeted audience and how wide the net Swtor was casting.

 

After hitting 50, raiding and rolling numerous alts to 50 It started to sink in that the overall difficulty level of this game is not what i expected. Then again, what I expected was based on what I had hoped for rather than what was most logical for the company and the subsequent game.

 

 

Basically we the minority, the hardcore few will never change the aims of this game and would be silly to even try to. Accept What the game is, then evaluate if it is for you. Anything more is just trying to change something that was obviously not meant for your play style.

Edited April 9, 2012 by DarthDetonate

[SNOperaghost]

I think that is the most honest and even handed criticism I've read yet. I quit playing MMO's years ago, I guess because they felt catered to the hardcore MMO player. Everquest, Asheron's Call, Galaxies *Which I so wanted to love but couldn't*, and the best PVP game ever done for the MMO world. Dark Age of Camelot. (If I dev reads this one... go back and look at how that game handled open world PvP and you will find some answers to your problems.)

 

Funnily enough, I have always felt that I myself was a hardcore gamer. I guess in the last few years I've been proven wrong.

 

When I played those, it felt like it took forever to reach endgame content. This game it was quite quick. WHich made me happy. Now, I don't have anything to do on my main except to raid once or twice a week. Which does leave me bored sometimes. But, for the most part. I find it to be exactly what I wanted it to be. I guess the race will be for those who aren't quite hardcore gamers, but still want to be engaged, is how quickly will we run out of content to play that is new and fresh to us, before they stop giving us new content. So far, for my play level, Bioware is still in the lead in that reguard. But, the longer they take to give each new content patch; the more likely a 2/3's hardcore MMOer like me can catch up.

[HeavensAgent]

Incidentally, though, the hardcore demographic is a target audience. It's simply not feasible for the developers to focus on hardcore-oriented content while still building the groundwork for the game. Once the foundation matures they're likely to broaden their development to focus attention on all applicable audiences, the hardcore included because, lets face it, you guys rock the subscription figures; you bring in a lot of money, and it would be foolish not to try to capture your interest at that point.

 

I'm expecting the widening of the game's design objectives to begin this summer, possibly as early as 1.3. The dual task at that point will be to create and publish dynamic content for the hardcore crowd that will maintain their attention while simultaneously enticing those that have already left the game to return.

 

It's not going to be an easy challenge.

Edited April 9, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[Misthalin]

You can always build a game (particularly an MMO) in layers, where you add depth and complexity for the more hardcore players while retaining the option of a laid back smooth gaming experience for the casuals.

[Kthx]

"I'm sure we'll see a lot of games aimed a niche audiences like the hardcore but for now, you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

 

This is a little bit off-topic from your original posting, but I am curious if the person you are paraphrasing actually specified a dollar amount of 300 million.

[DarthDetonate]

This is a little bit off-topic from your original posting, but I am curious if the person you are paraphrasing actually specified a dollar amount of 300 million.

 

I believe that was the number quoted. Currently there is a panel interview (audio) with five gaming companies up on Darth Hater from a few days ago.

[Nyteblades]

I have to agree that was a very good post OP. Im not a hardcore gamer i dont think. I play alot everyday actualy, But it dosnt phase me a bit to play 2 or in some cases 3 of the same type of toon. And various alts.

 

Now i have 2 50s and both raid.But I get my most enjoyment out of just cruising along on an alt or a reroll just to change my choices or see if i can find something i missed before.

 

I love to raid and i feel for those that are at a loss for something to do after clearing everything. But to me somewhere along the lines its just like in football or any other game.

 

It seems so many people forget to have fun, they get so focused on the win they cant see anything else. Not saying it isnt fun to win we all know it is. But its not the only fun thing in a game.

[cipher_nemo]

It depends on if you mean "hardcore" as in...

1. Want a challenging experience, so they do all hard and nightmare mode content.
   
2. Want to do everything in game. Absolutely everything.
   
3. Have nearly unlimited time and no life so they devote all of their time to the game.
   

If you're #1 and/or #2, then parts of TOR are targeted at you and it's on-par, if not better than many other MMOs for this.

 

If you're #3 then you're sadly out of luck, as you would be with just about every single MMO out there. The only exceptions might be sand-box MMOs, or seemingly neverending PvP like in EVE Online. TOR is an amusement park style MMO, just like WoW, in which those who spend their whole lives here are NEVER going to be satisfied as the developer will never be able to make enough content for you in a timely fashion.

Edited April 9, 2012 by cipher_nemo

[grandmthethird]

i hope you find your game OP

[KrittaB]

Incidentally, though, the hardcore demographic is a target audience. It's simply not feasible for the developers to focus on hardcore-oriented content while still building the groundwork for the game. Once the foundation matures they're likely to broaden their development to focus attention on all applicable audiences, the hardcore included because, lets face it, you guys rock the subscription figures; you bring in a lot of money, and it would be foolish not to try to capture your interest at that point.

 

This right here. THIS is the issue.

 

 

When a game first launches, it HAS TO focus on the groundwork. They have to focus on getting the basics ironed out. There's simply no other way around it. Thankfully they're making a valiant effort in adding more end game content (2 content patches within 4 months of launch), but in time most of their resources will be focused on that, and they have a LOT of resources.

 

The biggest issue is that the end game content hasn't been tuned properly, but that's an easily remediable problem. Their intention of having nightmare mode be basically impossible to clear was off it's mark, but if you give it time I'm sure it eventually will be. 1.2 is already starting to fix it, with nerfing most classes and buffing difficulty in the new raid.

Edited April 9, 2012 by KrittaB

[DarthDetonate]

i hope you find your game OP

 

Thank you sir and i believe I have June 19th. Then again, Ive said that before.

[viith]

This game is made for me. Huge Star Wars fan, very casual. I've been playing since day 1 of early access, have yet to hit 50 and having a great time. Thank you Bioware, I love this game.

[Jandi]

It depends on if you mean "hardcore" as in...

1. Want a challenging experience, so they do all hard and nightmare mode content.
   
2. Want to do everything in game. Absolutely everything.
   
3. Have nearly unlimited time and no life so they devote all of their time to the game.
   

If you're #1 and/or #2, then parts of TOR are targeted at you and it's on-par, if not better than many other MMOs for this.

 

If you're #3 then you're sadly out of luck, as you would be with just about every single MMO out there. The only exceptions might be sand-box MMOs, or seemingly neverending PvP like in EVE Online. TOR is an amusement park style MMO, just like WoW, in which those who spend their whole lives here are NEVER going to be satisfied as the developer will never be able to make enough content for you in a timely fashion.

 

I know I might be an exception when I say this, but that's not entirely true. I've been unable to work for the past 3 years now due to a medical condition so I have all the time in the world and, as being in the outside world can be frustrating due to it, I have no life to speak of really. Yet, I still like the game, even though I have 5x50 and done everything, twice.

 

I just take weeks off playing other things or read a book etc when I don't feel like logging in. I only do my officer duties in the guild and that's all the interaction I have with the game at times.

 

The problem is that people devour the game without any pauses and get burned out, don't even want to try doing things for the sake of doing things and then complain that the game is boring.

 

This isn't to be confused with people who get bored because they find the whole genre boring. Why those people keep buying games at launch from a genre they don't like in the first place, then complain that it's crap is beyond me but, well, at least BW gets more money to make the game better so *shrug*

 

The core of the problem is rather simple, though. Some people just expect game developers to conjure up content on a monthly basis out of thin air due to complete ignorance of the development process. This is very evident in the forums.

[xorcist]

This is not a game aimed at the hardcore. Many HC gamers (like myself) are guilty of trying to make this game it simply isn't.

 

As the Bioware Rep on the Pax East Panel said, to Paraphrase "your focused demographic is usually dictated by how much the game cost to make. In the future when these game can be made faster and for less money, I'm sure we'll see a lot of games aimed a niche audiences like the hardcore but for now, you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

 

When I quit WoW years ago, I said i would wait for Swtor, as it seemed to have what i wanted from a game and after 7 years, it wasn't set in Azeroth.

 

 

What i didn't (but should have) anticipated was the targeted audience and how wide the net Swtor was casting.

 

After hitting 50, raiding and rolling numerous alts to 50 It started to sink in that the overall difficulty level of this game is not what i expected. Then again, what I expected was based on what I had hoped for rather than what was most logical for the company and the subsequent game.

 

 

Basically we the minority, the hardcore few will never change the aims of this game and would be silly to even try to. Accept What the game is, then evaluate if it is for you. Anything more is just trying to change something that was obviously not meant for your play style.

 

You the minority will never be satisfied with any one MMO out there. Simply put, there is no single MMORPG that can keep up to the rate which you consume content. Thats simply a fact. Sleep is good. Spending time away from the screen once in a while is good too. I think you've logged in way more time than the average subscriber. Too much of anything is not good.

[HeavensAgent]

Thank you sir and i believe I have June 19th. Then again, Ive said that before.

If not, feel free to swing by and see how things are progressing here. A lot can change in a few months, and as I said I believe attention to the hardcore crowd is inevitable. As it should be.

[DarthDetonate]

You the minority will never be satisfied with any one MMO out there. Simply put, there is no single MMORPG that can keep up to the rate which you consume content. Thats simply a fact. Sleep is good. Spending time away from the screen once in a while is good too. I think you've logged in way more time than the average subscriber. Too much of anything is not good.

 

I posted this in peace. A simple nudge at the more vocal players that are dissatisfied with the content or difficulty ramping. Please don't assume to know my playtime or that I play this game 24 hours a day. As i said in my OP, assumptions, more often than not, fail the assumer.

[DarthDetonate]

If not, feel free to swing by and see how things are progressing here. A lot can change in a few months, and as I said I believe attention to the hardcore crowd is inevitable. As it should be.

 

And you may very well be right.

[HeavensAgent]

Simply put, there is no single MMORPG that can keep up to the rate which you consume content. Thats simply a fact. Sleep is good. Spending time away from the screen once in a while is good too. I think you've logged in way more time than the average subscriber. Too much of anything is not good.

Alternatively, and perhaps a less condescending idea, the answer may simply be to select several titles you enjoy and bounce among them; complete the game's new content, cancel, and go onto the next title. Eventually come back to the first and start again, experiencing the content that's been added since your last departure.

 

There is a lot of merit to the idea that developers simply cannot keep up with the demands of the hardcore demographic. This doesn't mean developers shouldn't attempt to do so, but as a consumer community hardcore players have to face the facts: your content demands are extremely high, and it may not be humanly possible to design, develop, test, and implement content fast enough to meet these demands.

Edited April 9, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[GalacticKegger]

If not, feel free to swing by and see how things are progressing here. A lot can change in a few months, and as I said I believe attention to the hardcore crowd is inevitable. As it should be.

Personally I like to think there is a distinct difference between hardcore and extreme. Not sure that extreme isn't what was being referred to. Edited April 9, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[NorrinRaddd]

What exactly is Hardcore in this aspect? Hardcore as in no life spend all my money on a particular game or hardcore as in "hard content". If its the first part I pity a lot of you.

[HeavensAgent]

Personally I like to think there is a distinct difference between hardcore and extreme. Not sure that extreme isn't what was being referred to.

I'm speaking about hardcore players as those who complete the content as fast as they can, those often criticized for not enjoying the game and complaining afterward. The simple fact is that theirs' is a valid play style. It just may not be compatible with sustaining a long-term subscription to an MMORPG title without interruption. Edited April 9, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[Dayln]

No successful MMO is specifically designed for the hardcore MMO PVPer

 

Any game that did, would cease to exist quickly

 

The vast, and I do mean VAST majority of players are casual, they are the bread and butter of any MMO. If any game does not cater to the casual player, they might as well start closing shop right now.

[Misthalin]

No successful MMO is specifically designed for the hardcore MMO PVPer

 

Eve Online.

[DiabloDoom]

"Hardcore" gamers should find sandboxes more appealing, why not join one? The players make the fun. Games like Mortal Online have no quests (or didn't when I played beta), have no interaction with NPC's, but use ingame options to allow them to build their own "content".

[DiabloDoom]

No successful MMO is specifically designed for the hardcore MMO PVPer

 

Any game that did, would cease to exist quickly

 

The vast, and I do mean VAST majority of players are casual, they are the bread and butter of any MMO. If any game does not cater to the casual player, they might as well start closing shop right now.

 

I would suggest that you start having a look around, there are plenty. Spreading misinformation is a dangerous thing.