PVP ops lieutenants pls FOR MARKING

[TyrantLeader]

BW can you please give the leader in pvp ops the ability to make lieutenants so other people can mark. Valor doesn't equal skill, also the higher valor people have the less they care about winning currently which leaves heals not marked or sages/sorcs not marked in huttball so people get pulled across the map in chain and pugs loose in less then 3 mins. Give the Leader ability to have lieutenants mark incase leader is incompetent or doesn't care.

 

ty

[DMuhny]

Not sure about this one. I agree and disagree with you.

 

Yes, it would be nice for other players to be able to mark healers. However, we can't have enemies getting marked every time someone sees them cast 1 or 2 heals if they aren't actually a healer.

 

Also, I think players would rage at the start of every WZ: "Promote everyone to LT!! We need to mark healers!"

 

Maybe the game should just auto-mark healers

Edited April 9, 2012 by DMuhny

[TyrantLeader]

Not sure about this one. I agree and disagree with you.

 

Yes, it would be nice for other players to be able to mark healers. However, we can't have enemies getting marked every time someone sees them cast 1 or 2 heals if they aren't actually a healer.

 

Also, I think players would rage at the start of every WZ: "Promote everyone to LT!! We need to mark healers!"

 

Maybe the game should just auto-mark healers

 

not just heals. leader should mark players who are actually good or vital to opposing team strategy like a sorc/sage pulling in huttball. most good players i know have given up on the mirage named 1.2. so now we have all these fresh players that are high valor that get leader but don't do anything. I understand marking players is not necessary but a mark attracts pugs and is needed.

Edited April 9, 2012 by TyrantLeader

[Nemectic]

PUGs never attack people that are marked. You want a PUG to attack someone? mez them, works every time, i swear.

[Dosvidaniya]

Marks should not be allowed in pvp. Or at least they should fade on death. It's rather ludicrous that players can mark the "threats" and then not have to pay nearly as much attention to who is attacking in the moment.

 

I have a better plan: get rid of marks in pvp.

[Mavery]

Marks should not be allowed in pvp. Or at least they should fade on death. It's rather ludicrous that players can mark the "threats" and then not have to pay nearly as much attention to who is attacking in the moment.

 

I have a better plan: get rid of marks in pvp.

 

Then people in PUG WZs will never target healers. At least now a couple do.

 

Your suggestion would lead to unnecessary frustration for PUGs.

[Dosvidaniya]

Then people in PUG WZs will never target healers. At least now a couple do.

 

Your suggestion would lead to unnecessary frustration for PUGs.

 

Unnecessary? No, being a baddie in pvp should lead to frustration. PvP is supposed to be about skill; part of which is recognizing primary targets. It's not supposed to hold your hand and let you know the location of every good player on the map and let you target them first.

 

It's equally frustrating when the few skilled players on the pug get marked and curb stomped by the pre-made because they get to see you coming from a mile away.

 

I'm curious; have you petitioned for marks to be added to FPS games so you can more easily kill the opponents that are threats? How about any other MMO?

[dougan]

Unnecessary? No, being a baddie in pvp should lead to frustration. PvP is supposed to be about skill; part of which is recognizing primary targets. It's not supposed to hold your hand and let you know the location of every good player on the map and let you target them first.

 

It's equally frustrating when the few skilled players on the pug get marked and curb stomped by the pre-made because they get to see you coming from a mile away.

 

I'm curious; have you petitioned for marks to be added to FPS games so you can more easily kill the opponents that are threats? How about any other MMO?

 

It's fun to compare FPS games to MMOs, huh.

 

PvP is also about communication. Target marking is a way to communicate an important target without having to type it out ten times so the other four PUGs notice it and then maybe attack that target.

 

I don't really care if there's no target marking in rankeds with 8 people in vent, it's just a nice target for PUGs who don't really know how to identify key targets or are too inexperienced to recognize the names of the good players.

 

PUGs never attack people that are marked. You want a PUG to attack someone? mez them, works every time, i swear.

 

This made me lol, though, I'll admit.

Edited April 9, 2012 by dougan

[Mavery]

Unnecessary? No, being a baddie in pvp should lead to frustration. PvP is supposed to be about skill; part of which is recognizing primary targets. It's not supposed to hold your hand and let you know the location of every good player on the map and let you target them first.

 

It's equally frustrating when the few skilled players on the pug get marked and curb stomped by the pre-made because they get to see you coming from a mile away.

 

I'm curious; have you petitioned for marks to be added to FPS games so you can more easily kill the opponents that are threats? How about any other MMO?

 

You brought in something completely irrelevant to the point I made. Keep your replies to PUG WZs, not pre-mades.

 

I would give you this: marks, if it were possible to disable, should be turned off for pre-mades. They are largely unnecessary in that environment.

 

But for PUGs? Most of the players in PUGs are baddies, and there is really nothing that you, I, or Bioware can do to change that. They know that. So you have marks to make the experience less frustrating. If you don't, then WZ participation goes down, and this would be devastating to many servers in the game.

 

People do PUG, unranked warzones for fun. To most people in that environment, it's not about "leet skill" or whatever else. Taking away marks -- and effectively having two PUG groups be nothing but chickens with their heads cut off -- detracts from fun.

 

Now before you reply, think about this: what exactly is frustrating about marks when two groups are complete strangers? No pre-mades, no familiar faces, true PUGs. Everyone is likely to be a baddie, but not all are. What exactly is frustrating about marks in that scenario?

 

P.S. Other MMOs would have a lot worse features for you. How about a target frame for the whole raid? Everyone goes off the chosen person's target. I reckon you'd think that's bad, and it still exists in another MMO.

[Niil]

BW can you please give the leader in pvp ops the ability to make lieutenants so other people can mark. Valor doesn't equal skill, also the higher valor people have the less they care about winning currently which leaves heals not marked or sages/sorcs not marked in huttball so people get pulled across the map in chain and pugs loose in less then 3 mins. Give the Leader ability to have lieutenants mark incase leader is incompetent or doesn't care.

 

ty

 

If the leader is incompetent or doesn't care, do you think they're going to make someone a lieutenant?

[Dosvidaniya]

You brought in something completely irrelevant to the point I made. Keep your replies to PUG WZs, not pre-mades.

 

I would give you this: marks, if it were possible to disable, should be turned off for pre-mades. They are largely unnecessary in that environment.

 

But for PUGs? Most of the players in PUGs are baddies, and there is really nothing that you, I, or Bioware can do to change that. They know that. So you have marks to make the experience less frustrating. If you don't, then WZ participation goes down, and this would be devastating to many servers in the game.

 

People do PUG, unranked warzones for fun. To most people in that environment, it's not about "leet skill" or whatever else. Taking away marks -- and effectively having two PUG groups be nothing but chickens with their heads cut off -- detracts from fun.

 

Now before you reply, think about this: what exactly is frustrating about marks when two groups are complete strangers? No pre-mades, no familiar faces, true PUGs. Everyone is likely to be a baddie, but not all are. What exactly is frustrating about marks in that scenario?

 

P.S. Other MMOs would have a lot worse features for you. How about a target frame for the whole raid? Everyone goes off the chosen person's target. I reckon you'd think that's bad, and it still exists in another MMO.

 

What game are you playing?! Complete strangers? Nice try. My server, which opened day 1 of pre-release, does well to have 4 concurrent matches during primetime. It's lucky to have more than 1 for about 1/2 of the day. That's 64 players during the busy portion. Everyone knows the avid pvpers! No pre-mades? Again, pugs fight premades in this game. That won't change in 1.2 either. I don't know why you feel you can just pretend they don't exist.

 

Actually, the focus target from raid frames is far less detrimental. Why? Because you can't see a giant bouncing star from 6 miles away that tells you to head to the west turret, west door, or the guy set up for a pass. At least one of them had to see the threat, wait for it to be in range, and then target it. It doesn't tell you the location of said player either (who may be los behind something). A giant star leaves no doubt as to their location.

 

And the entire argument, "everybody is a baddie" is a fallacy. If that were true, why do you need to mark said baddie? Oh, because they were good enough to make their team win. Therefore, they weren't a baddie. If the entire team of "headless chickens" is really just doing it for fun, what do they care about targeting the right person? Oh, they really do care about winning. They just don't want to have to work as hard as the other team to do it. They want to bypass by zerging down the good players of the other team.

 

As for the FPS argument, it does hold. No competitive genre of pvp lets you mark the threatening player to make it easier to locate and focus fire. The entire idea is ludicrous.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Dosvidaniya

[Roccobb]

Not sure about this one. I agree and disagree with you.

 

Yes, it would be nice for other players to be able to mark healers. However, we can't have enemies getting marked every time someone sees them cast 1 or 2 heals if they aren't actually a healer.

 

Also, I think players would rage at the start of every WZ: "Promote everyone to LT!! We need to mark healers!"

 

Maybe the game should just auto-mark healers

 

Isn't that what they are doing with the class icons next to the players names? Or am I misunderstanding that change?

 

Edit: And to add, I want marks to disappear at death. Sorry to those who disagree, but it is already hard enough to stay alive as a healer, than to have them see me coming from a mile away after rez.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Roccobb

[Mavery]

What game are you playing?! Complete strangers? Nice try. My server, which opened day 1 of pre-release, does well to have 4 concurrent matches during primetime. It's lucky to have more than 1 for about 1/2 of the day. That's 64 players during the busy portion. Everyone knows the avid pvpers! No pre-mades? Again, pugs fight premades in this game. That won't change in 1.2 either. I don't know why you feel you can just pretend they don't exist.

 

Cross-server queuing is coming.

 

Actually, the focus target from raid frames is far less detrimental. Why? Because you can't see a giant bouncing star from 6 miles away that tells you to head to the west turret, west door, or the guy set up for a pass. At least one of them had to see the threat, wait for it to be in range, and then target it. It doesn't tell you the location of said player either (who may be los behind something). A giant star leaves no doubt as to their location.

 

No but it tells you who everyone is targetting. Everyone gets on that target. That's focus fire. But that's hardly what this argument is about.

 

And the entire argument, "everybody is a baddie" is a fallacy. If that were true, why do you need to mark said baddie? Oh, because they were good enough to make their team win. Therefore, they weren't a baddie. If the entire team of "headless chickens" is really just doing it for fun, what do they care about targeting the right person? Oh, they really do care about winning. They just don't want to have to work as hard as the other team to do it. They want to bypass by zerging down the good players of the other team.

 

What? Reading comprehension. You don't even address my argument here.

 

As for the FPS argument, it does hold. No competitive genre of pvp lets you mark the threatening player to make it easier to locate and focus fire. The entire idea is ludicrous.

 

I never brought up the FPS argument.

 

****

 

In summation, you fail to address my main points at all, and instead go off on unrelated tangents. It demonstrates that your position is baseless.

 

/thread over.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Mavery

[Lewisgil]

Mavery, as a relative newb to PvP, I can tell you this, Marking a target is one, only something you would do for an air strike, at which point, said mark disappears along with the target and two, is a crutch that allows newbs to remain newbs and not learn how to PvP properly. If all you do is look for the bright blue lightning bolt, the big yellow star, the giant red flame, or the huge crosshairs, you don't learn to differentiate between DPS Sages and Healer Sages, you just look for the big Icon. As has been so eloquently articulated before, it gives the exact location of your targets, leaving no element of skill in tracking down and attacking your target. It means all eyes are on the marked target.

 

I play on an RP server, not the first place you would think to look for serious PvPers, but they do exist in droves on my server. PUGs remain PUGs for all of about 20 minutes as the group you were just playing Huttball with is now the group with which you are on Voidstar and will be the group with which you are on Alderaan. Not to mention, when you are Queuing at the PvP Daily Mission Terminal, you tend to see and converse with the people with which you are PvPing. It tends to be the place where I get introduced to War Heroes and other various High Valor Players that do nothing but PvP all day and we discuss PvP strategies for my DPS Sorc.

 

Point being, Marks don't make the PvP experience better in any way shape or form. They are only a crutch.

[illgot]

just allow anyone to mark/unmark

 

If a leader is too lazy or arrogant to mark, he's probably not going to promote people to Lt.

 

I actually had one leader constantly refuse to mark players because... "people should be good enough to know who to kill!"

Edited April 9, 2012 by illgot

[Gnoblesse]

Let's be honest...they're not likely to take target marking out of the game. With that being said, I would LOVE it if you could give people ops lt, because as a healer, I'm not the best person to stop and pause and mark. (Mainly because, well, I'm not usually targeting the other team.) I realize this would probably mean *I'm* marked more often, but I think most of my server probably knows I'm a healer by now anyway.

[DMuhny]

To ask for marks to disappear on death would mean more time required by the Leader scanning the field for primary targets to mark/re-mark. Which would make being the leader a chore. You can't ask that of the leader which already hardly marks targets in the first place.

 

Instead of this need to re-mark, how about a visible range of the marks. Maybe 60 yards? That way you aren't seen across the map, yet people that are near become aware when prime targets should be the focus. No need to re-mark.

 

I would slightly agree that marks should be removed from Ranked Warzones, but even doing that serves no purpose for those of you getting focused that hate these marks. Instead of the team saying "Focus star!" they would say "Focus <playername>!". Either way, you will be a known target, and you will get focused. Which makes my visible range marks the best idea.