Did rage Juggs get nerfed?

[Korevas]

I think you're still looking at it as if you're just standing there not gaining any rage man. Will it cut into a little of your dps for sure, but it's a cool down you can pop even when you're stunned or CCed. THAT'S HUGE. If you find yourself lacking rage after poping it we do have this ability called enrage that can buffer your rage.

 

either you're just so focused on the cost you're not really doing the math at how it's really not that bad, and can be worked through easily or maybe you're only looking at it from a PvE perspective, as a PvP CD it's pretty BA yes it's costly but eh it can be popped while CCed and we have plenty of ways to build rage up to continue fighting while it's up.

 

We're talking about 14 rage base or 11 rage in vengeance spec for a 30% heal that will trickle in over 10 seconds. I see how vengeance might generate some excess rage, but this *will* cut into your dps, a lot.

Not to mention, that for non-vengeance specs, the cost will be heavily front loaded, so if you actually die by, say, the 3rd tick, you just spent 7 rage for a 9% heal which makes the ratio even worse. Now for random wzs you probably won't care, but on a team this is quite bad. As it stands, I probably wouldn't even use it on non vengeance at all and will occasionally use it during huttball, which is pretty disappointing.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Korevas

[Noth]

I think you're still looking at it as if you're just standing there not gaining any rage man. Will it cut into a little of your dps for sure, but it's a cool down you can pop even when you're stunned or CCed. THAT'S HUGE. If you find yourself lacking rage after poping it we do have this ability called enrage that can buffer your rage.

 

either you're just so focused on the cost you're not really doing the math at how it's really not that bad, and can be worked through easily or maybe you're only looking at it from a PvE perspective, as a PvP CD it's pretty BA yes it's costly but eh it can be popped while CCed and we have plenty of ways to build rage up to continue fighting while it's up.

 

Bad use for enrage. A cooldown that requires another cooldown for use is a poor cooldown. You gain rage, but you will be using your builder far more often which cuts into your dps which will nullify the fact that you are surviving for longer. Even as vengeance you shouldn't be sitting around with a crap ton of rage when actively attacking in pvp. All this does is prolong your death rather than save you due to the dps loss

[lordofdamornin]

Bad use for enrage. A cooldown that requires another cooldown for use is a poor cooldown. You gain rage, but you will be using your builder far more often which cuts into your dps which will nullify the fact that you are surviving for longer. Even as vengeance you shouldn't be sitting around with a crap ton of rage when actively attacking in pvp. All this does is prolong your death rather than save you due to the dps loss

 

Unless I missed it someplace, Schwarz hasn't mentioned this ability at all regarding his experience on the PTS. Since I am pretty sure he would have said so if it were bad, this tells me 2 things:

 

Either;

 

He hasn't used it yet, or not enough to really comment.

 

or

 

It's really good, and he's keeping quiet about it.

 

Maybe I am wrong, we'll see.

 

Since I am not on the PTS, I can only look at things on paper. On paper, I think this new CD is kinda meh for Rage, but could be really good for Vengeace, Immortal, and hybrids. I also have not seen what the CD is for this ability, which matters in how I weigh such things.

 

In any case, all of our CD's are meh if 4-5 people decide it's time for you to die, and you are unable to escape them, so that part is kind of moot, really.

 

Riôt

[WarSiren]

Bad use for enrage. A cooldown that requires another cooldown for use is a poor cooldown. You gain rage, but you will be using your builder far more often which cuts into your dps which will nullify the fact that you are surviving for longer. Even as vengeance you shouldn't be sitting around with a crap ton of rage when actively attacking in pvp. All this does is prolong your death rather than save you due to the dps loss

 

See, the DPS loss isn't going to be that significant if you build your spec right. Also I can tell by what you just posted you've never played Vengeance before or at least not effectively. Trust me this new CD will be a good thing, you're really not realistically theory crafting this and only looking for a pure dps gain CD. I have a feeling even if I did the math for you, you pretty much have your mind made up about this ability. I'm not in the mood for a back and forth so I'll just end it here.

[Noth]

See, the DPS loss isn't going to be that significant if you build your spec right. Also I can tell by what you just posted you've never played Vengeance before or at least not effectively. Trust me this new CD will be a good thing, you're really not realistically theory crafting this and only looking for a pure dps gain CD. I have a feeling even if I did the math for you, you pretty much have your mind made up about this ability. I'm not in the mood for a back and forth so I'll just end it here.

 

All I play as vengeance, regularly pull off tanks and finish first on the my target in EV. You are not swimming in Rage if you are playing vengeance right. a 30% heal for 14 (12) rage is not worth it. It will cut into your dps and it is just bad design if you have to pop a second cooldown to power it. Instead of giving us a cooldown with no downside, (like all other classes), they give us one with a large downside. Devs are so paranoid about making us too tanky with heavy armor when heavy armor means squat as far as mitigation goes.

[WarSiren]

All I play as vengeance, regularly pull off tanks and finish first on the my target in EV. You are not swimming in Rage if you are playing vengeance right. a 30% heal for 14 (12) rage is not worth it. It will cut into your dps and it is just bad design if you have to pop a second cooldown to power it. Instead of giving us a cooldown with no downside, (like all other classes), they give us one with a large downside. Devs are so paranoid about making us too tanky with heavy armor when heavy armor means squat as far as mitigation goes.

 

See we're talking about completely different worlds. I wasn't even considering PvE as I really don't consider it worth while in this game. Maybe in the next progression of content I will. Atm it's a joke, and not worth my time. ( I just want to clarify I mean end game PvE not PvE as a whole, as the leveling experience was awesome. Operations atm though are pretty pathetic.. but it's their first run at them so I guess I can forgive them.)

Edited April 10, 2012 by WarSiren

[Noth]

See we're talking about completely different worlds. I wasn't even considering PvE as I really don't consider it worth while in this game. Maybe in the next progression of content I will. Atm it's a joke, and not worth my time. ( I just want to clarify I mean end game PvE not PvE as a whole, as the leveling experience was awesome. Operations atm though are pretty pathetic.. but it's their first run at them so I guess I can forgive them.)

 

Even in pvp, if you are really fighting like you should, you should not have the rage to fuel the cd since as vengeance you need to be doing constant damage.

[WarSiren]

Even in pvp, if you are really fighting like you should, you should not have the rage to fuel the cd since as vengeance you need to be doing constant damage.

 

Unless you're specced poorly or PvPing with a PvE spec that is not the case you end up with a surplus of rage, especially once stuns and AoE damage starts coming into play.

[Goretzu]

Did you just say marauder has more utility than a jugg?

 

 

Hey good thing about the changes, you can sit in tank stance and not lose 3 seconds off your force abilities thus giving you the time to guard a lot more. Oh man utility.

 

A Rage Jugg vs a Rage Mara?

 

It will to some degree depend on how effective it is to play in Soresu with Rage post 1.2, but broadly yes the Rage Mara squeaks it..... but when you add in their survivability too it becomes a BIG difference (a Rage Mara is more survivable than a Rage Jugg sat in Soresu, and, of course, the Jugg has reduced DPS from that form currently).

 

I'm not convinced that a Rage Jugg is going to be your best option for Guard (over other options) and it certainly won't be for over all utility+survivability+DPS.

[Goretzu]

See, the DPS loss isn't going to be that significant if you build your spec right. Also I can tell by what you just posted you've never played Vengeance before or at least not effectively. Trust me this new CD will be a good thing, you're really not realistically theory crafting this and only looking for a pure dps gain CD. I have a feeling even if I did the math for you, you pretty much have your mind made up about this ability. I'm not in the mood for a back and forth so I'll just end it here.

 

Well this is a Rage Jugg spec thread.

 

I can't see that much rage being usable without severely destroying but your burst and sustained DPS.

 

What is worse is it doesn't give you POINT survivability (which is the best kind) and the kind Rage Juggs really lack, but rather a much less useful (especially considering the rage cost) sustained minor survivability boost.