Play the class before complaining about it

[ZeusThunder]

(Edited with impressions from 1.2)

In the past I made a few posts about classes being OP and needing a nerf, and agreed with some others. For every class I complained about though, my perspective is totally different after playing them:

 

Sorcerer

Before: Thought the slow on force lightning and all the CC/escapes was OP

After: Realized the sorcs are extremely squishy. If you aren't paying attention you're very easily killed.

1.2: They seem a little undertuned to me now, but not by a whole lot. The proccing needed to be fixed.

 

Mercenary

Before: Tracer missile is an IWIN button, class does way too much damage

After: Heat management is hard with Pyro spec. During long engagements have to spam a lot of rapid shots.

With Arsenal spec I'm fine until someone attacks me. Don't have a lot of options for getting away from people. Don't have a repeatable 1.5s cast time heal.

1.2: Not a big change overall. I play the Arsenal spec exactly the same way I did before, just with a bit more unload mixed in now. The extra damage from Heatseaker Missiles is a good change. This was a nerf for bads, and a buff for goods.

 

Marauder

Before: Wow are they immune to my damage 100% of the time or something!?

After: Knockbacks are extremely annoying, class can be kited by a good player. Being in melee range all the time gets you targeted first by ranged classes.

1.2: Strengths and weaknesses are still the same. I think Bioware overtuned Ravage a bit too much. If the person I'm hitting doesn't have a CC off of cooldown they are taking a HUGE amount of damage.

Operative

Before: They do too much damage right out of stealth, stupid how much burst they have.

After: Surprisingly easy to be seen while in stealth. Feels more like a "minor invisibility" than a true stealth. Can be kited, very squishy, extremely difficult to get in backstab type abilities on casters due to auto-facing.

1.2: Energy Management is a bit easier now, no major changes in gameplay style to report.

 

Powertech

This is my main, so no before/after. 1.2 changes to pyrotech actually feel like a buff. My playstyle is exactly the same, and I'm using vent heat less often now. I've even had enough heat to start using Explosive Dart in my rotation now.

 

I have a theory about the 1.2 class changes. Marauder seems to me by far the most complex class out of all that I've played. No surprise, it's the one I see many people play poorly as well. Keyboard turners playing Marauders literally makes me lol. This is really the only class that got noticeable buffs in 1.2.

I wonder when Bioware is talking about the "data we are seeing" if they are just looking at average dps by the classes? SWTOR has A LOT of bads, so is it possible that Bioware is seeing incorrect figures due to the ratio of bad Marauders vs. good Marauders? Could the large amount of bads be making Bioware think Marauders needed more buffing than they actually did? Just a thought...

Edited April 14, 2012 by ZeusThunder

[Varicite]

In the past I made a few posts about classes being OP and needing a nerf, and agreed with some others. For every class I complained about though, my perspective is totally different after playing them:

 

Sorcerer

Before: Thought the slow on force lightning and all the CC/escapes was OP

After: Realized the sorcs are extremely squishy. If you aren't paying attention you're very easily killed.

 

Mercenary

Before: Tracer missile is an IWIN button, class does way too much damage

After: Heat management is hard with Pyro spec. During long engagements have to spam a lot of rapid shots.

With Arsenal spec I'm fine until someone attacks me. Don't have a lot of options for getting away from people. Don't have a repeatable 1.5s cast time heal.

 

Marauder

Before: *** are they immune to my damage 100% of the time or something!?

After: Knockbacks are extremely annoying, class can be kited by a good player. Being in melee range all the time gets you targeted first by ranged classes.

 

Operative

Before: They do too much damage right out of stealth, stupid how much burst they have.

After: Surprisingly easy to be seen while in stealth. Feels more like a "minor invisibility" than a true stealth. Can be kited, very squishy, extremely difficult to get in backstab type abilities on casters due to auto-facing.

 

 

In conclusion, none of these classes felt OP to me after playing them. Based on my impressions playing against them I expected to just faceroll everything when playing as them but that has not turned out to be the case. Compared to my main, a Powertech, the numbers after a WZ are quite similar actually. Class balance right now (for the classes I've tried) actually seems VERY good; I hope 1.2 doesn't change this.

 

I wish there were more people like you. : )

[Antipathize]

Oh thank god, someone has seen the light.

[Ryotknife]

you realize just how much of a time sink it is to level a class to 50, and gear him at least in champ gear in order to get a decent understanding of pvp to determine if the class is indeed op or not right?

[Khoraji]

you realize just how much of a time sink it is to level a class to 50, and gear him at least in champ gear in order to get a decent understanding of pvp to determine if the class is indeed op or not right?

 

His point still stands, dont complain about something you know nothing about.

[ZeusThunder]

you realize just how much of a time sink it is to level a class to 50, and gear him at least in champ gear in order to get a decent understanding of pvp to determine if the class is indeed op or not right?

 

I wouldn't expect everyone to do the same thing I did. However if they choose not to do this, they should maybe take my word for it instead of coming to conclusions based off of anecdotal evidence.

[KalTorrak]

In the past I made a few posts about classes being OP and needing a nerf, and agreed with some others. For every class I complained about though, my perspective is totally different after playing them:

 

Sorcerer

Before: Thought the slow on force lightning and all the CC/escapes was OP

After: Realized the sorcs are extremely squishy. If you aren't paying attention you're very easily killed.

 

Mercenary

Before: Tracer missile is an IWIN button, class does way too much damage

After: Heat management is hard with Pyro spec. During long engagements have to spam a lot of rapid shots.

With Arsenal spec I'm fine until someone attacks me. Don't have a lot of options for getting away from people. Don't have a repeatable 1.5s cast time heal.

 

Marauder

Before: *** are they immune to my damage 100% of the time or something!?

After: Knockbacks are extremely annoying, class can be kited by a good player. Being in melee range all the time gets you targeted first by ranged classes.

 

Operative

Before: They do too much damage right out of stealth, stupid how much burst they have.

After: Surprisingly easy to be seen while in stealth. Feels more like a "minor invisibility" than a true stealth. Can be kited, very squishy, extremely difficult to get in backstab type abilities on casters due to auto-facing.

 

 

In conclusion, none of these classes felt OP to me after playing them. Based on my impressions playing against them I expected to just faceroll everything when playing as them but that has not turned out to be the case. Compared to my main, a Powertech, the numbers after a WZ are quite similar actually. Class balance right now (for the classes I've tried) actually seems VERY good; I hope 1.2 doesn't change this.

 

Good points, I actually thought and did the same thing when the game first came out, I think Bioware got the balance right the first time (hell they MUST have and did assloads of testing for balance etc) then the whingers came in.... they listened and now the came is farked I'm sorry to say, Imperial Ops can hardly kill **** after the previous nerf (I made it AFTER the nerf btw but I Was on the receiving end and NEVER complained) it is very hard till now (and I'm almost full BM geared) to kill a healer, you just don't do enough damage, 1.2 is going to make us non existent unless you are a healer.

 

Same point with BH and well Sorc, basically all the others as well, people do not play these before the whinge and it goes to show... game was AWESOME in beta I felt it was so balanced and early access the same, now its just getting more not fun the more they ruin class balance and listen to the whingers.

Edited April 5, 2012 by KalTorrak

[Swiped]

Noticed nothing about Snipers. Wonder why

[Rheeling]

you realize just how much of a time sink it is to level a class to 50, and gear him at least in champ gear in order to get a decent understanding of pvp to determine if the class is indeed op or not right?

 

I'd say it's about the same amount of time it takes for the masses to switch which class they complain about being OP.

 

Seems to be working out for most people. The waves of "This class is super OP so I'm going to make one" rerollers have been doing it quite nicely.

 

But I guess they do tend to quit that character before they hit 50 because they can't push 1 button and 2 shot everybody like they had been complaining about.

[ZeusThunder]

Noticed nothing about Snipers. Wonder why

 

Because I have a job and my Sniper, Toblerpwn, is only lvl 1

[LordDeschain]

very interesting post and I would have to agree even though I only have one main and no alts, (with a family, and business hard to roll alts to 50 lol)

 

each class has its respective pros and cons, I do think that there is a little necessary tweaking to be done, but overall its pretty equal.

 

i play with a mara and with a healer next to me life is great, and most 1v1 encounters go my way, but the fact that often i must jump right in the middle of combat makes life difficult. but each class has to face their weakness.

 

i am playing better now cuz i A i learned the role for my class (primarily kill and harass healers) and B learn your class weakness and figure out how to turn it into a strength.

 

before i was blindly force charging right into combat attacking the first person i could target, regardless of what kind of back up i had, couple that with no lvl 50 pvp gear and it was not very fun, now with half my gear at champ and a better understanding of what NOT to do and games are a lot more productive and i dont feel as annoyed at thinking other classes are OP and my class is gimped.

 

yea of course i would love to have a knockback or some stuns, but then can you imagine the mara class with those things lol

[LordbishopX]

came is farked I'm sorry to say, Imperial Ops can hardly kill **** after the previous nerf (I made it AFTER the nerf btw but I Was on the receiving end and NEVER complained) it i

 

 

Imperial ops is farked funny I like you to meet Hallow a ops on my server who has started to dress in sorc gear yes sorc gear for more of a challenge and ripped many a part I never cry nerf but can't kill any one is exaggeration on a large scale. Hallow kills just fine I haven't met many that play ops as hard core as him he's taken out the best I get to play with with ease. It's now a hunting game to get him on blast during wz quite fun fights.

Edited April 5, 2012 by LordbishopX

[Ryotknife]

I wouldn't expect everyone to do the same thing I did. However if they choose not to do this, they should maybe take my word for it instead of coming to conclusions based off of anecdotal evidence.

 

so, only people who literally have no life should be entitled to an opinion.

 

well...after all that time spent i guess they should be entitled to something. and without hard data from anywhere, anecdotal evidence is all we have.

 

personally, im a numbers who$% who likes to look at statistical data (without cherry picking) to determine what is OP, but unfortunately i cant do that in this game.

 

all we have is population, and that is not a good data set as population is influenced by more than just how strong a class is in pve or pvp.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ryotknife

[LordbishopX]

so, only people who literally have no life should be entitled to an opinion.

 

well...after all that time spent i guess they should be entitled to something. and without hard data from anywhere, anecdotal evidence is all we have.

 

personally, im a numbers who$% who likes to look at statistical data (without cherry picking) to determine what is OP, but unfortunately i cant do that in this game.

 

1.2 brings combat logs hopefully usable during wz I look so forward to it. BW been looking at damage logs the entire time finally releasing to the player base which is good and about time...

Edited April 5, 2012 by LordbishopX

[fungihoujo]

In the past I made a few posts about classes being OP and needing a nerf, and agreed with some others. For every class I complained about though, my perspective is totally different after playing them:

 

Sorcerer

Before: Thought the slow on force lightning and all the CC/escapes was OP

After: Realized the sorcs are extremely squishy. If you aren't paying attention you're very easily killed.

 

Mercenary

Before: Tracer missile is an IWIN button, class does way too much damage

After: Heat management is hard with Pyro spec. During long engagements have to spam a lot of rapid shots.

With Arsenal spec I'm fine until someone attacks me. Don't have a lot of options for getting away from people. Don't have a repeatable 1.5s cast time heal.

 

Marauder

Before: *** are they immune to my damage 100% of the time or something!?

After: Knockbacks are extremely annoying, class can be kited by a good player. Being in melee range all the time gets you targeted first by ranged classes.

 

Operative

Before: They do too much damage right out of stealth, stupid how much burst they have.

After: Surprisingly easy to be seen while in stealth. Feels more like a "minor invisibility" than a true stealth. Can be kited, very squishy, extremely difficult to get in backstab type abilities on casters due to auto-facing.

 

 

In conclusion, none of these classes felt OP to me after playing them. Based on my impressions playing against them I expected to just faceroll everything when playing as them but that has not turned out to be the case. Compared to my main, a Powertech, the numbers after a WZ are quite similar actually. Class balance right now (for the classes I've tried) actually seems VERY good; I hope 1.2 doesn't change this.

 

Too bad 1.2 is changing it massively- mostly due to people who complained about the classes before seeing how they actually play. Class balance right now is quite good- it doesn't take a genius though to see the best classes will be getting better, and the poorer classes nerfed horribly in 1.2- and it's either due to BW listening to whiners, or BW having no clue what they're doing- either way, not a good message to people who know how to play when it comes to how BW will be handling pvp.

[Khoraji]

so, only people who literally have no life should be entitled to an opinion.

 

personally, im a numbers who$% who likes to look at statistical data (without cherry picking) to determine what is OP, but unfortunately i cant do that in this game.

 

 

^ - This guy makes fun of gamers on a gaming website because they have no lives and in the same posts claims he likes to analyze the statistical data from game logs to figure out which class is OP.....

[Varicite]

1.2 brings combat logs hopefully usable during wz I look so forward to it. BW been looking at damage logs the entire time finally releasing to the player base which is good and about time...

 

It spits them out into a text file that has to be parsed by another program for you to get any sort of relevant info from it.

 

You won't be reading it during combat, that's for sure, unless you're great at multi-tasking.

[Varicite]

so, only people who literally have no life should be entitled to an opinion.

 

well...after all that time spent i guess they should be entitled to something. and without hard data from anywhere, anecdotal evidence is all we have.

 

personally, im a numbers who$% who likes to look at statistical data (without cherry picking) to determine what is OP, but unfortunately i cant do that in this game.

 

all we have is population, and that is not a good data set as population is influenced by more than just how strong a class is in pve or pvp.

 

I think he meant as opposed to even worse anecdotal evidence taken from "that time X class killed me in a WZ and I didn't know what to do", not opposed to empirical data taken from large testing samples.

 

I agree that it's a lot better to wait until you have a good understanding of the class you're complaining about before you ask for changes.

 

The grass usually turns out to not be all that green when you get to the other side.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Varicite

[KalTorrak]

Imperial ops is farked funny I like you to meet Hallow a ops on my server who has started to dress in sorc gear yes sorc gear for more of a challenge and ripped many a part I never cry nerf but can't kill any one is exaggeration on a large scale. Hallow kills just fine I haven't met many that play ops as hard core as him he's taken out the best I get to play with with ease. It's now a hunting game to get him on blast during wz quite fun fights.

 

Then he hasn't met a decent healer I didn't say I couldn't kill healers, sorry I should have been more specific, I'm talking going against skilled players here not random scrubs you can dress up in no gear for a challenge against

[KalTorrak]

so, only people who literally have no life should be entitled to an opinion.

 

well...after all that time spent i guess they should be entitled to something. and without hard data from anywhere, anecdotal evidence is all we have.

 

personally, im a numbers who$% who likes to look at statistical data (without cherry picking) to determine what is OP, but unfortunately i cant do that in this game.

 

all we have is population, and that is not a good data set as population is influenced by more than just how strong a class is in pve or pvp.

 

Love how people like you just take offence to something bluntly obvious it wasn't out to offend anyone? Just people doing the research, you going to say next BW doesn't have a life cause they made the game and put so many hours into making it next? Get off your high horse.

[KalTorrak]

^ - This guy makes fun of gamers on a gaming website because they have no lives and in the same posts claims he likes to analyze the statistical data from game logs to figure out which class is OP.....

 

lol exactly, that's what I found funny to

[LancelotOC]

This is why 1.2 is bad. The game is fine already and 1.2 heal nerfs will through it out of wack imho.

[Stratoforce]

OP has never seen a good marauder/sentinel. Don't worry, I've only seen one myself.

Only time I beat him is if I stun him at around 30%, and hope I get crit strings, otherwise 99% damage reduction comes up and they get free DPS uptime which usually means death.

 

Marauders/sentinels are going to be the reason Rakata medpacks get nerfed again.

[Ryotknife]

^ - This guy makes fun of gamers on a gaming website because they have no lives and in the same posts claims he likes to analyze the statistical data from game logs to figure out which class is OP.....

 

i can analyze data in minutes

 

it takes hundreds of hours to level every char to 50 and gear him up.

 

and i wasnt making fun of him until he said that people who dont put in hundreds of hours playing every class do not deserve to have an opinion. his opinion carries as much weight as everyone else's especially without any proof to back it up. his sense of entitlement is beyond laughable.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ryotknife

[LordbishopX]

OP has never seen a good marauder/sentinel. Don't worry, I've only seen one myself.

Only time I beat him is if I stun him at around 30%, and hope I get crit strings, otherwise 99% damage reduction comes up and they get free DPS uptime which usually means death.

 

Marauders/sentinels are going to be the reason Rakata medpacks get nerfed again.

 

So u kite for 6 sec and kill them its not that hard to save ur stun/slow/ knockback for when they hit the bubble and finish them off so many bad sent/maras I hardly worry about them...

Edited April 5, 2012 by LordbishopX