OP force users and sith totally NERFED SNIPER

[IamPolaris]

I have a MASSIVE GRIPE about the mechanics of the sniper and how MASSIVELY OVERPOWERED THE JEDI AND SITH ARE.

 

Obviously you all play as force users because you have made them so overpowered it's not even funny. It is certainly no fun to play against them in events like huttball.

 

1. How is it that a SNIPER has such a short range? How is it that a force user can Jump, sprint or hit you with rocks or lightning from the same distance away that a trained sniper can shoot?

 

2, snipers take forever to activate a shot while force users can simply run out of your range or sprint to you and stun you no sooner than they come into range, and then its all but over because they are immune to my effect but can stune me over and over and i'm left with a TWO MINUTE COOLDOWN of my antistun..REALLY?

 

3. they also have what seems like a million stun effects and are immune to my kneecap shot that i would try to use to at least keep them at bay for a couple seconds?

 

4. when I do have a visual of someone while standing on a ledge I cant crouch down because I incessantly get the "EFFECT NOT FOUND " MESSAGE AND BY THEN THE JUST JUMP UP TO WHERE i AM AND THEN EITHER STUN AND KILL ME OR SEND ME FLYING!

 

5. Getting behind my coverscreen or entrenching does NOTHING to stop them from knocking me out of it and into a pool of acid,and considering that again, they have a seemlessly endless way to stun me or keep me out of cover i never get to use my abiliies, and don't even bother trying to keep them from running in circles around you to prevent that" target not within sight" message from popping up.

 

6. WHy is it that on top of all of this there seems to be absolutely no difference in between the ranges of a sniper rifle and pistols or Cannons..have you ever heard of anyone ever sniping anyone from 500 meters away with a frigging pistol? Also I doubt that everone that gets behind a Machine gun has Carlos Hathcocks' ability to snipe a target from a mile away.

 

 

 

I read the updates to the new 1.2 mechanics and NO suprise the sniper gets nerfed even more, theres no increase in range for a shot and i have to spend more ability points in order to do less. I also found out that the force users are getting ..HAHAH GET THIS ..REDUCED COOL DOWN TIMES WHILE MY COOLDOWNS ARE INCREASING IN DURATION..or at least the points that i use to reduce cooldowns are even more pointless because now instead of 7.5 points I get only 2.5 secs in reduction. you might as well take the ability or choice away to reduce cooldown because when the cooldown is 30 seconds or more to begin with is a total drop of 5 stupid seconds really worth taking?

 

you know if all you wanted was force users in a game then you'll soon have it.. because noone will bother trying to use anything else and everyone will be the same .

 

this is such a load of crap. I've spent hundreds of hours logged in and building my character only to find that in pvp i'm frigging useless. thanks a lot.

 

Have any of you bothered to think that being a sniper should mean that you chould have a longer range from which to attack. I dont want to hear this crap about balance. balance is I hit you from afar for mega damage and do my best not to have to face a jedi up close, but if I have to be within the same range that a jedi or sith =can just jump to me and stun me , i might as well have a frigging knife in my hand then a scoped weapon..

 

everyone gets the idea that jedi are powerfull, duh, ok moot point , but that doesnt mean that if I can get myself into a hide and keep them guessing or at least off balance then it would be much more equal.

 

2 people should feared on any battlefield, force users and snipers, and of course bounty hunters with their ability to take on a jedi one on one. But you guys dont seem to care about any of that its like the operatives and sniper classes were just something to add another class to make it seem like there was more choices..

 

 

 

Here are some soultions

 

1, give us a longer range-thats why we have scoped weapons and while as I don't expect that it should be exasperatingly far , it should be far enough that a force user cannot , from max distance either jump right to you or hit you with anything in his arsenal without dedicating ability points to do it.. Example even in the stories Luke had to train extensively to direct things so if you do give them relative range with objects reduce the accuracy UNLESS they use points to tune the skill in.

 

2. STOP making me roll away from my perch to a spot behind objects that prvent me from being able to even SEE my target that is just on the other side.. what the hell is the point of getting behind a pylon or a waist high wall if I cant use it from which to engage a target.

 

3.STOP NEFING SNIPERS. we are squshy enough without having you give anyone pase for tryig to come after me.. You might as well pull all my teeth and hand me a Q-tip with which to defend myself. I see that you increased the range of the EMP pulse probe, but what if I have dedicated my life /skills to being able to reach out and touch someone with a scoped rifle?

 

 

4. While I don't expect to be able to run around stealthed like an operative, give me an ability to cloak while in cover and obviously after I take a shot i should have a cooldown before I can reactivate it and f i leave cover the effect also dissapates. Snipers in real life wear Guille suits to hide themselves yet I cant get something to have the same or similar effect in a highly technically advanced world?

 

 

 

Ultimately here is my point, While the concept is great, remember what happened with SWG? the developers didnt think much about the gamers and essentially made everyone choose force users because nothing else could compete and gamers left in droves because there was absolutely no diversity.

 

I love the crafting but in many cases theres no point because the same stuff that I can mke you can turn in commendations for and get from a vendor so theres no market for me to bust my butt to make good gear beacuse I spend a fortune in makeing gear only to break it down and it takes like 10-15 tries per item piece to get the next stage of ability . thats HOURS of aquisition time and for what, i could have spent an hour grinding out commendations to get the same MOD.. The mods should be less than what an equivilant crafter shoud be able to make otherwise why waste the time , credits and energy to craft anything when theres no market for it. People are just grinding out to 50 to get Battlemaster and centurion gear that I cant modify anyway and so low level characters are just left out in the cold. I mean the way it is now where is the incentive to spend tons of time just exploring, doing all of the missions and finding it worth your while to buy something in the galactic trade market kiosk instead of a commendation vendor. I mean whats thepoint of having a auction house if theres no real reason to use it.

 

The problems I'm talking about and these solutions would go a long way to help maintain diversity. Personally I would like to see the force users loose the ability to jump so frigging far or at least limit them from jumping up from the 2 floors down and then sprinting everywhere .. at leastINCREASE the cooldowns or drop the stun so that they have to be more calculating with their usage . maybe slow them down slightly after a jump or sprint as though they wre momentarily exerted from that sudden force usage ...something to give us a freaking chance.. Balance should not mean that everyone is pushed toward being a force user. I hate being like everyone else ,I quit SWG because there was no reason to be different and it was boring seeng the same thing over and over again.. and lets get something straight if force users were so invinceable would a few shooters have been able to take them out the way they did ( at least in story after ORDER 66) .

 

I like the premise of a star wars game, but if you guys dont start really thinking about what " BALANCE "really is then I think you will all be out of work soon because noone is going to want to play this for very long .

 

I know you guys have worked long and hard to encode the ablities and make it look good, but did anyone ever REALLY sit down and legitimately ask what would really go down on a battlefield .. THINK DEADLIEST WARRIOR...

 

I spent a lot of money to buy and play this game, I spent a coupe thousand to get a new computer to handle it, bought the special edition, spent all this time trying to NOT be like everyone else that always wanted to be a jedi or sith only to find out that thats the only thing in the game that you guys and someHan solo fans cared about ...AARARARGGGh.

 

ok rant over..

 

I don't want you guys to have to close shop. I don't want you to fail. woud love to see this game flourish, but as I'm sure youve already seen drops in numbers I know that you have to be second guessing yorselves and thats why you are trying so hard to get 1.2 right before release. Please take these things into consideration for improvements and dont take it personally. I took the time to cover as many things as I could and to offer solutions for improvements . I believe that these things would add true balance and help more people find reasons to explore other options during character creation thus making a more colorful landscape of players.

 

Good luck

Edited April 5, 2012 by IamPolaris

[Jaydann]

Well I have to say when it come to sorcerer and sage yeah they are a bit overpowered, but the difference isn't as huge as you portrait here. Not completely disagreeing with you, force classes do have an advantage in pvp and the Sniper is a tricky class to play to its full potential. I see your post actualy only applies to a sniper in pvp, still if you have that many problems with your sniper your obviously playing the class completely wrong.

[Jaydann]

3. they also have what seems like a million stun effects and are immune to my kneecap shot that i would try to use to at least keep them at bay for a couple seconds?

 

Kneecap breaks on damage so not verry usefull in pvp cuz you always get damage from someone or something. I only use it to stop runners above the flames in huttball.

 

 

5. Getting behind my coverscreen or entrenching does NOTHING to stop them from knocking me out of it and into a pool of acid,and considering that again, they have a seemlessly endless way to stun me or keep me out of cover i never get to use my abiliies, and don't even bother trying to keep them from running in circles around you to prevent that" target not within sight" message from popping up.

 

Coverscreen doesn't prevent knockback, its not supposed to. Nor does Entrenching

 

 

2. STOP making me roll away from my perch to a spot behind objects that prvent me from being able to even SEE my target that is just on the other side.. what the hell is the point of getting behind a pylon or a waist high wall if I cant use it from which to engage a target.

 

If you hotbind take cover in place" to a key you get alot more cover control. I have Take cover in place on [F] and take cover on [G]. F= never roll away. G=Roll unless there is nothing to roll to. If you use this wise enough you can use your "take cover" to roll away from some one as fast they jump at ya. "If you cann't see them they cann't see you."

TBH from your post i can only make up you dont have alot Expertise or simply don't know how Resolve works.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Jaydann

[jbuschell]

Are you knocking back? Are you kiting with leg shot and using flashbang, dirty kick etc? Do you know your rotations and specs? Snipers are fine and only getting better its a l2p issue

[hadoken]

Are you knocking back? Are you kiting with leg shot and using flashbang, dirty kick etc? Do you know your rotations and specs? Snipers are fine and only getting better its a l2p issue

 

They apparently don't even know what entrench does or how to use it given their complaints about it.

[trevah]

They apparently don't even know what entrench does or how to use it given their complaints about it.

 

Right? I knew what this skill did before I rolled sniper.

 

This kind of blatant ignorance needs to be ignored when there is a plethora of great guides on these very forums that go into great detail regarding sniper-play.

 

OP: If you took the time to research your class instead of writing that fantastically long essay, you would be better. Yes, snipers are hard, squishy, and complex. Yes, we aren't entirely balanced. But if you think that a 3 page rant will magically change BW's mind about their balancing priorities, you are delusional.

 

Read up, gear up, fix your rotation, don't get so frustrated, and you will play better. Remember, this is a video game and thusly not really worth the grey hairs you're giving yourself. Chill bro.

[Dee-Jay]

TL;DR

 

Just wanted to throw my 0.02 cents in saying that as a Guardian, I consider Snipers to be my direct counter in a 1v1.

[Faolon]

TL;DR

 

Just wanted to throw my 0.02 cents in saying that as a Guardian, I consider Snipers to be my direct counter in a 1v1.

 

A good sniper/gunslinger is a nightmare for any melee class.

[AtomicDP]

l2p issue imo, choose a bh or trooper you'll prob find it easier it's for noobs

[Caelrie]

You seem hung up on the range of real life guns. Being able to shoot from across the map would break the game. That's why you only have 35 meters.

[jbuschell]

What the op wants is a 300m range shot that ignores los, hits for 20k, can be used out of cover and its an insta cast that after impact does an aoe that's hits everyone in the wz for 14000 Dmg each

[IamPolaris]

[/color]QUOTE=trevah;3762880]Right? I knew what this skill did before I rolled sniper.

 

"This kind of blatant ignorance needs to be ignored

OP: If you took the time to research your class instead of writing that fantastically long essay, you would be better. Yes, snipers are hard, squishy, and complex. Yes, we aren't entirely balanced. But if you think that a 3 page rant will magically change BW's mind about their balancing priorities, you are delusional."

 

1. If you remain silent then nothing will ever have the chance to change, this the phase " suffer in silence". And while i dont expect a single vioce to change anything, a chior can influence the masses especially when you appeal to specific issues and give them an idea of where they can make improvements with a reward that they seek. Its basic phsycology, unlike you with your insults. I mean really ?! Get out much?

2. You sound like a butt hurt developer because I dare to question mechanics and suggest that something is flawed.

3. Just because you pour over every thread or spend hours data mining for nuggets of wisdom ( maybe you should spend more time on personality) doesnt mean everyone else does.

 

4. I wrote a single post with all of my concerns and suggestions for inprovement after many hours of play and talking to others that had similar concerns and suggestions. While it may have been long winded I found it useful and theraputic and frankly dont give a rats 455 what you think.

Edited April 6, 2012 by IamPolaris
Not clear what part belongs to which poster.

[kurzis]

you still need to l2p though

[IamPolaris]

What the op wants is a 300m range shot that ignores los, hits for 20k, can be used out of cover and its an insta cast that after impact does an aoe that's hits everyone in the wz for 14000 Dmg each

 

[/indent]

Actually If you had paid attention, i had said that while I didnt expect the range to be exasperatingly far, a reasonable increase would be morein line with the class.

I figure a 40-45m range would be reasonable, problem is is that when Devs have a favorite class to play on their own or cater to a certain demographic they seem to leave a lopsided battlefield which always tilts in their favor.

[aesirize]

Okay, I'll play the neutral side in this and not simply state that you need to L2P without at least giving some advice. (I'm bored)

 

1) Force users really are not overpowered, as they have disadvantages.

The same can be said about any class; all have their own advantages and disadvantages. All have their direct counters.

 

Is the game perfectly balanced: No.

Does it need tweaks here and there: of course.

The game has only been out for a couple months.

 

2) I'm assuming your talking about Huttball in regard to your entire post. So with that in mind, being a Sniper has a great deal to do with positioning. If your down below near the ball, your going to have a hard time. instead get up on the upper levels. prepare the shots (explosive probe when they're buisy, Ambush-FT will make them hurt. Leg Shot and SOS and anyone who inst a tank will get either really nervous, or panic. If someone is coming for you, see what they are; BH, sorc, assassin, marauder, etc and act accordingly. (see note 3)

 

3) No force user, or any class for that matter, is immune to all of your effects all the time. Learn about the other class' and watch for the animations that results in either A) damage reduction (shields, bubbles, etc), B) become immune, or nearly immune to CC, root, Snares or C) just what they're doing. learning what they do and when they do it will give a you a massive edge against them.

 

4) Effect Not Found, it's annoying. there's no word it's going away. going to have to deal with it like the rest of us. is it 'fair;' no.

 

5) Cover Screen does 3 things:

A) Increases ranged defense by 20%

B) Allows you to cast specific abilities (Ambush, SoS, Cover-Pulse, etc)

C) Gives you a buff that makes it impossible to be interrupted.

It does not say anything about CC/KB invulnerability

 

Entrench does however, make you immune to everything except damage. They cannot CC you, interrupt you, knock you back, or anything that makes you loose control of your character.

 

6) I'm not going to comment on range, as i don't really care. we have our range, it's our range for a given reason. Balance. we have a small 5m advantage with our Sniper Rifle attacks (Ambush, Snipe, Followthrough).

 

7)

I read the updates to the new 1.2 mechanics and NO suprise the sniper gets nerfed even more

 

please explain your reasoning behind our 'nerf'.

We are getting much needed changes to all three of our tree's.

*Marks-

Imperial Assassin now is 3 points instead of 5, same overall effect

Sniper Volley completely changed to make it very valuable, maybe even essential. Entrench is getting a 60% reduction in AoE dmg.

*Eng-

i will not comment on Engineering tree as i have no experience with it, but from a general consensus based on opinions of Snipers I've asked, say the changes are still nice.

*Lethality-

Cull Energy reduced (the weapon damage portion of the ability has been reduced, but that accounts for 1/3-1/4th of the damage (correct me if I'm wrong) so it's of little concern.))

Free weakening blast

New talent. Lingering toxins. so your not effectively neutered if anyone purge/cleanses your poisons.

 

Yes lethality gets minor tweaks, no nerfs, from a couple different talents/abilities. That's called balance.

 

REDUCED COOL DOWN TIMES WHILE MY COOL-DOWNS ARE INCREASING IN DURATION..or at least the points that i use to reduce cool-downs are even more pointless because now instead of 7.5 points I get only 2.5 secs in reduction. you might as well take the ability or choice away to reduce cool-down because when the cool-down is 30 seconds or more to begin with is a total drop of 5 stupid seconds really worth taking?

 

what are you talking about. be specific. Being angry about CD reduction, 7.5 points getting 2.5 sec doesnt mean anything without context.

 

STOP making me roll away from my perch to a spot behind objects that prevent me from being able to even SEE my target that is just on the other side.. what the hell is the point of getting behind a pylon or a waist high wall if I cant use it from which to engage a target.

 

Crouch in place

 

I'm sorry, that's the best i can do for you. i stopped reading after the 'stop nerfing snipers' as i lost interest in the rant.

Edited April 6, 2012 by aesirize

[Aehgo]

First off pvp has to be balanced so giving one ranged class extra distance isn't going to happen.

Secondly I think you aren't playing your class right.I hate fighting snipers 1v1 because of how quick they can burn me down and they have awesome dots that often kill people after fights.

Thirdly you have like 2 or 3?Instant CCs that are awesome in pvp.

Snipers are definately on par with sages/sorcs and mercs/mandos in my opinion,they are hard to master but when you can play it well its one of the best damage dealers in the game.

Whats your specc anyway?

[flem]

L2P I'm afraid. The only force user that should be giving you big trouble is the Shadow/Assassin tank. Against 2 of the other 3 ACs you should win pretty handily.

 

If you're getting leaped to you've already done something wrong.