There seriously needs to be compensation for those of us who did not jump ship.

[Kaskali]

Biochem 3 biometric crystal alloys and some trash mats = 3 unattainable items that provide stats greater than anything any other class can offer ontop of what is available.

Persists through death and reusable = permanent.

 

Me Armormech 27 biometric crystal alloys and 216 mandalorian irons (sell for 10k a piece on my server so I could have made ~ 2.2 million credits) for nothing. In no way better than the item you can get from a vendor. And it's BOP so it's vendor trash.

 

That is unacceptable and unfair in every conseavable way.

 

There MUST be compensation.

 

Not for the fact that I got ****ed.

Because BIOWARE KNEW this system was broken and refused to do what they should have done.

A. Lock all crafting crewskills.

B. Give all crafting crewskills the reusable rakata stims, adrenals and medpacks.

C. *********** SAY "THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN DO NOT CRAFT WITH ANYTHING BUT BIOCHEM".

 

It is criminal what has happened here. Unacceptable in everyway.

 

Go ahead and try to validate biowares actions.

 

I have been extremely mistreated.

I realize this is probably a futile effort, but I just cannot resist trying.

 

Setting aside some of the finer points of your claim, have you ever known of an MMO that was balanced this way in whole or in part?

 

"What is that? Someone on the forums pointed out that the dark elf racial bonus gives them a 1.6% dps advantage over other races? Alright team, you know what to do! Just like we practiced! Initiate immediate server restarts with a client patch. Lock racial selection. Let's remove all racial bonuses, replace them with the dark elf bonus, and get a popup on the character creation screen saying 'THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN DO NOT CREATE ANYTHING BUT DARK ELVES' Well, what are you waiting for? Get on it! I want character creation locked on all servers by oh-six-hundred hours. Go! Go! We are go here, people!"

 

That is not what most people would consider responsible game development. In fact, if Bioware were to behave like that, I think that the dude who dropped synthweaving on Wednesday to find biochem nerfed into the ground on Friday with no advance warning or communication to the community would have a much more valid reason to complain than you do.

 

For as long as there have been MMORPGs, there have been balance issues. Have you ever heard of any game that ever retroactively rewarded players for something they did not do because it was imbalanced? I know you seem to think that this is some great travesty of all that is good and right in the world (It is downright CRIMINAL, I say!), but in the long and sordid history of massively multiplayer videogames there have been far worse balance problems than biochemists getting stims with slightly higher absorb rating than the ones the non-biochemists can use. In none of those instances did the developers go back and reward everyone for not doing something.

 

Out of curiosity, why didn't you jump ship?

 

As far as I can tell from reading your posts, you saw that biochemistry had stronger benefits than the other professions just like everyone else did. While other people dropped their professions for biochemistry, acting on the information available to them to maximize their characters as effectively as possible, you chose not to. Everyone suspected that biochemistry would be nerfed, but a lot of them devoted time and effort to leveling it regardless. It was, at the time, the best way to make their characters as powerful as possible.

 

I am curious why you think that you are the one who deserves compensation and not these people? It seems to me that they are the ones who should be upset at Bioware for creating one profession that is more attractive than all the others and then devaluing it after everyone jumps on board. They were the ones who made choices based on the existing profession balance only to see Bioware change it for the very purpose of making them less powerful. They are the ones competing to sell implants in an oversaturated market who are now going to come up short once the dust settles from all the re-balancing taking place (and which will continue to take place in the future).

 

You, on the other hand, saw that you could have benefited by taking biochemistry but you chose not to. You probably saw that the pendulum would swing back, and you made a calculated decision not to switch professions. I did the same thing. Now that armorcrafting is becoming more important and biochemistry is being devalued, you are in a much more desirable position than all the people who switched to biochem.

 

I am also at a loss to understand why you would participate in a system that you felt was so radically unfair. No one forced you to craft twenty-something versions of the same bind-on-acquire belt. You knew that you were rolling the dice when you crafted one. You knew that a non-augmented belt was not going to be an upgrade for you and you knew that you could not use the excess belts for anything else. Every profession is like that. You can make some stuff that is potentially better than the best otherwise-attainable gear, but you have to get lucky enough to get an augment slot. Biochemists deal with the same thing when they craft implants (except for needing biometric alloys). If you did not realize this going in to the endeavor, surely you had to have figured it out by belt number ten or so.

 

Spending that much time and effort trying to get an item that you cannot seem to get sucks. I can appreciate that. You have my condolences for the streak of bad luck. But it is not Bioware's fault that you chose to keep trying, and I do understand why they would owe you compensation any more than a casino would owe you compensation for losing all your money in its slot machines.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Kaskali

[Ojas]

let me get this strait. you are pissed off because you spent 2.2 mil for a chance at 3 additional dps in a system where topped out you are pulling roughly 1350? then you are even MORE pissed when you spent another 800k reverse engineering in system that bioware blatantly stated months ago wasnt working as intended?

 

really? also, calling anything else "gimp" when as a synthweaver i had access to essentially the same bonuses as biochem, at a price, is just as criminal. it honestly sounds like you are attempting to blame bioware for your poor reliance on gear instead of taking your poor performance to heart and correcting it.

 

My poor performance?

 

Gimp means inferior.

 

Reusable stim buffs are *********** god send buffs in warzones.

 

Biochem makes those.

 

Armormech should be able to make something no other class can get that is equivalent in stats to the reusable stims but for armor.

 

That's simple balance.

 

It does not exist in this game.

 

A lot of raid groups kick players who are not biochem.

 

Atleast 50% of players I encounter in warzones are biochem.

 

 

The fact that I put in all this effort and have received ABSOLUTLY NOTHING is criminal and it needs to result in compensation.

 

In the same way a bug leads to the deletion of an item. A broken crafting system that bioware refused to admit that resulted in the loss of 27 biometric crystal alloys and 216 mandalorian irons (that can be sold for 2.2 million) (not even considering what the going rate for those 27 biometrics will be (net loss of 10 million +? for nothing. For Bind on Pickup items that you can not RE and are forced to either let them take up inventory space or sell to a vendor for 1/100th of what was put in.

 

Simple fact. Biochem is unbelievably superior than armormech that bioware did not openly say since day one "DO NOT CRAFT WITH ANYTHING BUT BIOCHEM" is criminal.

 

This is what happened.

 

Bioware never said a word about their crewskill system.

I tried to use Armormech. I played into their "random chance" superior item system.

 

I find out that after all that effort the result is negligible (and that is considering if I even did get an augment slot (which I didn't).

 

While biochems run around with 3 reusable that offer things you can not get anywhere else in the game.

 

I put in SIGNIFICANTLY more effort and time into this crewskill and have gotten nothing for it. Why? Why is that fair.

 

Why should I not be compensated.

Bioware did not say "this crewskill offers nothing".

 

They put it in the game and didnt say a word.

[Ojas]

Spending that much time and effort trying to get an item that you cannot seem to get sucks. I can appreciate that. You have my condolences for the streak of bad luck. But it is not Bioware's fault that you chose to keep trying, and I do understand why they would owe you compensation any more than a casino would owe you compensation for losing all your money in its slot machines.

 

 

No. It is Biowares fault for not openly stating "THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN GET FROM THIS CREWSKILL, THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN GET FROM THIS OTHER CREWSKIL, THIS OTHER CREWSKILL IS NOT BASED ON LUCK AND OFFERS ITEMS THAT ARE 5-10x BETTER THAN WHAT YOU CAN GET FROM YOUR CREWSKILL".

 

How is somebody supposed to know what you can get out of Armormech if bioware never said a word.

 

Fact is, I see Biochems running around after spending 3 biometric crystal alloys and a little bit of REing time with godsend items that are unatainable elsewhere in the game.

 

I think "OOO maybe I should keep plugging away at armormech, they are both crewskills, both trained and leveled in the same way, there is no notification stating "biochems times is worht more than armormech time" so I keep trying to get something out of armormech that is on par with what biochem offers. Remember the fact that Bioware has never said what these crewskills can offer.

 

Low and behold. 10-20X as much effort for nothing.

Even if I did get something. It's still inferior.

 

That's unacceptable.

 

Not compensating us who tried to use biowares broken system are essentially being told "biochems time is worth more than armormechs, you do not get anything as good as what biochem can offer, deal with it".

 

 

Fact is there is a lack of balance and bioware should have said "these are unbalanced you should not use any other crewskill because it can not make anything onpar with what biochem can". They did not. They did not make that fact clear and many of us have suffered significantly becuase of it.

 

There must be compensation.

[caliaviator]

I am also at a loss to understand why you would participate in a system that you felt was so radically unfair.

 

Life is unfair but yet we all participate in it (except those who off themselves). I get what you mean, but the OP needs to realize that life is unfair and you live with your decisions. This is coming from someone who spent a substantial amount of credits changing crew skills in order to craft my Rakata crap.

[Ojas]

So esentially.

 

I put in more work (substantially) and I get punished for it.

 

27 Biometric Crystal Alloys

216 Mandalorian Irons (all farmed myself).

 

Nothing

 

Biochem

couple hours of REing items made with easy to obtain resources and three Biometric Crystal Alloys and they get three best in game must have items.

 

 

I put in more effort and I am often kicked from raids because I don't have reusable.

 

 

That's fair?

 

 

Fixing it in the future is not enough.

 

Even if I did get a superior craft (have not yet, even though I am using 10,000 affection ensign temple), the result is still substantially inferior to what biochems can make for themselves.

 

 

That is unfair and I am being punished for putting in more effort.

[Ojas]

Life is unfair but yet we all participate in it (except those who off themselves). I get what you mean, but the OP needs to realize that life is unfair and you live with your decisions. This is coming from someone who spent a substantial amount of credits changing crew skills in order to craft my Rakata crap.

 

This isn't life.

 

My 15 dollars a month is no more or less important than anybody elses' 15 dollars. Your time and effort is no more or less important than my time and effort. Yet I suffer because bioware ****ed up and did not make it clear on day one "our system is broken, do not use it".

 

Please, Bioware. Post here and say "Life isn't fair".

 

Please Bioware, use that statement in your justification for this.

 

You cant say this is my fault.

 

I simply crafted using their crewskills.

 

It was broken.

 

There must be compensation.

[supafreak]

No. It is Biowares fault for not openly stating "THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN GET FROM THIS CREWSKILL, THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN GET FROM THIS OTHER CREWSKIL, THIS OTHER CREWSKILL IS NOT BASED ON LUCK AND OFFERS ITEMS THAT ARE 5-10x BETTER THAN WHAT YOU CAN GET FROM YOUR CREWSKILL".

 

How is somebody supposed to know what you can get out of Armormech if bioware never said a word.

.

 

Many websites have databases that list all items and schematics. Try doig research, even google would have been good enough. Try Torhead, or Darthater.

 

Bioware cant say what is best, you have all the info if you would only look, then its up to you to make an educated choice......still baffles me why you would waste 27 miometrics when you could have read that it was broken, wait for a fix and in the meantime sell and farm mando iron

 

I am a synthweaver, I knew what biochem could do. I didnt complain I can make BIS belt thats just for me. I can make oh so much gear that is BOE, I made counless purple quality items that i knew could sell to leveling players and made a mint. I can buy biochem stims

Now come 1.2 I can craft augments and crit for augment slots much easier

EVERYTHING IS COMING UP MILHOUSE

Edited April 6, 2012 by supafreak

[Amalak]

Its so easy to move from crew skill to crew skill in this game, during raid last night I was artifice as I had been trying to crit my second relic (Rakata Crit Relic crit on second try and Rakata Power Relic crit on 17th) which finally did, so I went back to bio and a couple hours later I was back to 400 biochem.....

 

Everytime I switch to another crew skill to craft stuff I want, I buy mats on GTN when I see good deals and store them for when I decide to switch to a different crew skill, then when Im done and RE everything I made, then I sell all the left over mats. Most of the time I actually make decent amount of credits from doing this or at the very least its a break even...

 

This game is so easy and even casual players can make a ton of credits, get full raid geared and full PvP geared out in a matter of weeks. Seeking compensation for such an easy MMO as compared to most is maybe a huge sign that says, "SWTOR is not the MMO for you)

[Rogozhi]

Ojas, please, if you have pets don't harm them because of Bioware's criminal activity. In fact I suggest you get to a mental health professional because you are obviously in the middle of a psychotic episode. Meds might help. Biochem FTW.

 

Seriously though. You think *I* and everyone else should have our crafting locked because *YOU* feel Biochem is better than the rest? Do you understand how completely absurd that is?

 

How about you do this: LEVEL AN ALT. While you do so you can craft yourself lots of nice armor with that "useless" armortech and take Biochem. Now, you're not going to be able to get those nifty reuseable stims/packs for your main, but after you've dried your tears you can just craft stacks of regular old high end stims/packs.

 

Oh, and if you need these items in PvE/PvP how about you L2P. I'm not planning on using either and I'm sure I'm going to do just fine. My guildies aren't using the crap and HM raids go fine. Game isn't really that hard you know.

 

If you need them in PvP you're a scrub. Don't PvP.

 

And don't use this crap argument that because you're a consumer you have some special rights and the companies you give a piddley s*** amount of money to should bend over backwards to please you. YOU were too lazy to do a bit of research into the product. GROW UP AND BE ACCOUNTABLE INSTEAD OF EXPECTING THE WORLD TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS. All of the crafting recipes were on databases since beta. Just because you were too stupid and lazy to put a little effort (a whole lot less effort than leveling a skill to max) in finding out what each skill entailed doesn't mean Bioware has wronged you.

 

Again. Grow up.

[mordredz]

QQ. Credits are easy to make in this game. You can level Biochem and its subskills to level 400 for around 300k.

 

Bioware owes you nothing.

 

+1 Right there, QQ less....

[mordredz]

This isn't life.

 

My 15 dollars a month is no more or less important than anybody elses' 15 dollars. Your time and effort is no more or less important than my time and effort. Yet I suffer because bioware ****ed up and did not make it clear on day one "our system is broken, do not use it".

 

Please, Bioware. Post here and say "Life isn't fair".

 

Please Bioware, use that statement in your justification for this.

 

You cant say this is my fault.

 

I simply crafted using their crewskills.

 

It was broken.

 

There must be compensation.

 

So mad over virtual goods, and i have every crafting skill to... Good lord rage less over pixels...

[Maxell_Snow]

There is an inherent flaw in your logic.

 

Armormech

Low Level - Makes Heavy Armor and Medium Armor (only usable by a few classes). Can be improved.

Mid Level - Makes Heavy Armor and Medium Armor (only usable by a few classes). Can be improved.

High Level - Makes Heavy Armor and Medium Armor (only usable by a few classes). Can be improved.

End Game - Can make 2 items Belt and Boots for themselves.

 

Biochem

Low Level - Makes Two Implants (can be used by every single person in the game). Can be improved. Can make stims, and medpacks that can be used by every single person in the game. Can make adrenals that can not be acquired by anybody. Can make reusable stims, medpacks and adrenals for themselves.

Mid Level - Makes Two Implants (can be used by every single person in the game). Can be improved. Can make stims, and medpacks that can be used by every single person in the game. Can make adrenals that can not be acquired by anybody. Can make reusable stims, medpacks and adrenals for themselves.

High level - Makes Two Implants (can be used by every single person in the game). Can be improved. Can make stims, and medpacks that can be used by every single person in the game. Can make adrenals that can not be acquired by anybody. Can make reusable stims, medpacks and adrenals for themselves.

End Game - Can make best available stims, medpacks and adrenals that can be used by every player in the game and can be sold. Can make reusuable stims, medpacks and adrenals that persist through death for themselves. Can make 2 best in slot implants that can be improved and can be sold to every player in the game.

 

 

See the issue?

 

Biochem can do everything armormech can (they do it with different items) and yet they can still do things (offer improvements that armormech can not IE reusable rakatas) that armormech can not.

 

There is no issue here except your misconception about how economics work in mmos or in rl. EVERY product line will NEVER have the same number of buyers, or for that matter suppliers. To expect an MMO to structure a game so that someone will be x amount of medkits from me and the same exact amount of chest armor pieces from you is beyond short sighted.

 

Consider that the game economy is in its infancy. People will realize that medkits will sell, duh because they are truly the only consumable in game. Eventually more people will flock to biochem reducing the price. I have seen this on 2 servers I have played on already. It will get to the point that it will take me selling at least 20-30 medkits to net the same profit you get on one high end piece of equipment. There is your balance if you are smart enough to realize it should be biochem profit = synth profit instead of biochem items sold vs synth item sold.

 

One of the more heavily populated rp-pvp servers it took finally tracking down a random guy in a pug to make me an orange chest piece for my mid level smuggler because I hated my superman cape. Nothing is on the GTN because you guys are too myopically focused on end game crafting only. This is clear because every example you use is rakata this or rakata that. Perspective ftw.

[Ojas]

So mad over virtual goods, and i have every crafting skill to... Good lord rage less over pixels...

 

No.

So mad over my time and effort (significantly more than any biochem) resulted in nothing.

[Ojas]

There is no issue here except your misconception about how economics work in mmos or in rl. EVERY product line will NEVER have the same number of buyers, or for that matter suppliers. To expect an MMO to structure a game so that someone will be x amount of medkits from me and the same exact amount of chest armor pieces from you is beyond short sighted.

Consider that the game economy is in its infancy. People will realize that medkits will sell, duh because they are truly the only consumable in game. Eventually more people will flock to biochem reducing the price. I have seen this on 2 servers I have played on already. It will get to the point that it will take me selling at least 20-30 medkits to net the same profit you get on one high end piece of equipment. There is your balance if you are smart enough to realize it should be biochem profit = synth profit instead of biochem items sold vs synth item sold.

 

One of the more heavily populated rp-pvp servers it took finally tracking down a random guy in a pug to make me an orange chest piece for my mid level smuggler because I hated my superman cape. Nothing is on the GTN because you guys are too myopically focused on end game crafting only. This is clear because every example you use is rakata this or rakata that. Perspective ftw.

 

 

PLEASE prove that.

 

Please show the resources, time required to get those resources and the cost of obtaining those resources.

[Laris_Rai]

I've made a fair bit of cash just selling the artifice stuff I've found. But then, I never expected that skill to be a big one for me until very high levels.

[Holinyx]

Biochem is not my main. I don't PvP.

 

i have over 20 million credits.

 

 

your argument is invalid.

[grfu]

Biochem 3 biometric crystal alloys and some trash mats = 3 unattainable items that provide stats greater than anything any other class can offer ontop of what is available.

Persists through death and reusable = permanent.

 

Me Armormech 27 biometric crystal alloys and 216 mandalorian irons (sell for 10k a piece on my server so I could have made ~ 2.2 million credits) for nothing. In no way better than the item you can get from a vendor. And it's BOP so it's vendor trash.

 

That is unacceptable and unfair in every conseavable way.

 

There MUST be compensation.

 

Not for the fact that I got ****ed.

Because BIOWARE KNEW this system was broken and refused to do what they should have done.

A. Lock all crafting crewskills.

B. Give all crafting crewskills the reusable rakata stims, adrenals and medpacks.

C. *********** SAY "THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN DO NOT CRAFT WITH ANYTHING BUT BIOCHEM".

 

It is criminal what has happened here. Unacceptable in everyway.

 

Go ahead and try to validate biowares actions.

 

I have been extremely mistreated.

 

Dude, don't act like you think you know where I'm coming from. I'm an artificer. Artifice has 1 item with end game utility, and that's the relic that I can make FOR MYSELF. I don't even get the chance at an augment slot for it, so before you jump down someone's throat, think that they might be worse off than you, k?

Edited April 7, 2012 by grfu

[Ojas]

Biochem is not my main. I don't PvP.

 

i have over 20 million credits.

 

 

your argument is invalid.

 

Credits dont mean ****.

 

I spent all my credits (or what could have been used to get credits) on trying to make use of armormech and got nothing but 27 bop trash belts.

[grfu]

I like how you completely ignored my statement. Do you still want a hug?

[Kaskali]

Well, I tried.

 

Good luck with the crusade for compensation. I would love to stay and help, but there is no way I could keep up here. I have pressing business with a particularly dastardly windmill that is going to require all the moral outrage and righteous indignation I can muster.

 

Give my regards to Sancho.

[grfu]

Well, I tried.

 

Good luck with the crusade for compensation. I would love to stay and help, but there is no way I could keep up here. I have pressing business with a particularly dastardly windmill that is going to require all the moral outrage and righteous indignation I can muster.

 

Give my regards to Sancho.

 

You show that windmill who's boss, Don!

[Ojas]

I like how you completely ignored my statement. Do you still want a hug?

 

I didn't respond to your statement because you dont know what the **** yo uare talking about.

 

You can INFACT get an augment slot on your relic.

 

You can make TWO relics.

 

You INFACT have the same advantage as an armormech does. 2 slot rakata gear with the possibility of two augment slots.

 

 

NOW

 

Please do what I did and craft 27 of those relics while you try to get one with an augment slot.

 

PLEASE.

 

Somebody. Share my pain.

[Maxell_Snow]

PLEASE prove that.

 

Please show the resources, time required to get those resources and the cost of obtaining those resources.

 

All this information can be compiled via torhead, or first hand experience. It is not my job to present you metrics to satisfy your lack of knowledge about the biochem profession. I know EVERY tier of blue medpacks sold as quickly as I could make them with a single toon running missions (full staff of companions). I would say I was a casual player to "semi too nerdy for my own good" about playtime for awhile. I know I had contracts for 10 stacks of blue medpacks and blue stimulants that I could barely keep up with. I know the prices, or at least net income (that means price - cost) reduced by about 400-600 weekly for a few months in a row. I found I could run missions and sell loot and make more profit...better use of time for credits...Rolled on a new toon with an artifice and the same exact model applies to enhancements all up and down the level chain, except the prices have not been reducing.

 

You made the choice to stick with a profession so you could try to get your extra little stat boost. You are complaining about the crafting system from a self-supply perspective and that is utterly not the intent of crafting in an mmo. It may be the use you personally decide to stick with and by all means, you have that right. However just because your chosen needs and desires do not mesh with how the system is set up you want more more more.

[grfu]

I didn't respond to your statement because you dont know what the **** yo uare talking about.

 

You can INFACT get an augment slot on your relic.

 

You can make TWO relics.

 

You INFACT have the same advantage as an armormech does. 2 slot rakata gear with the possibility of two augment slots.

 

 

NOW

 

Please do what I did and craft 27 of those relics while you try to get one with an augment slot.

 

PLEASE.

 

Somebody. Share my pain.

 

What pain? No one's telling you to do this crafting. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to keep crafting stuff until you make something with an augment slot.

 

You want to know pain? Try a crafting system that requires the entire faction to work together in PvP, else you can't get the materials you need to make the culmination of your crafting. That's pain, to be held back by apathy and a lack of organization. At least in TOR, you can get all the mats within a 4-person group. Quit being a child and man up.

[Ojas]

What pain? No one's telling you to do this crafting. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to keep crafting stuff until you make something with an augment slot.

 

You want to know pain? Try a crafting system that requires the entire faction to work together in PvP, else you can't get the materials you need to make the culmination of your crafting. That's pain, to be held back by apathy and a lack of organization. At least in TOR, you can get all the mats within a 4-person group. Quit being a child and man up.

 

I played RF Online. That was heaven compared to the *********** ********* of spending 27 biometric crystal alloys and 216 mandalorian irons and getting nothing out of it.