Looking for help with Jugg DPS build

[Darth_Nihilis]

After checking out sith-warrior.com and lookin at their vengeance build

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1010MZIGMR0uddhRZG00M.1

 

Seems like it is a bit outdated. some of the skills selected don't seem like you would get the best use of them once you hit 50 on into end game.

Accuracy and Brutality stand out the most since b then you should be hitting the correct accuracy with item alone. and I almost never use Vicious Slash anymore with all the other skills I could be using. Does anyone have a better skill build that takes into account end-game gearing. Also I was thinking of PvPing a bit so I dunno if I should stick with a decent Vengeance build and swap a few skills around or go Rage.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Rethos]

This:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIGMRMuddGoZb.1

 

This favors an efficient rotation where you keep your DoTs up as much as possible, use ravage before impale and shatter so you get the most potential for proc'ing cooldown resets for ravage and force screaming between each impale and shatter as possible to get the autocrit then smashing off cooldown and force push if its up even if its a boss since it doesn't consume rage. I never use vicious slash since my smash does better damage and with this rotation, by the time you'd even want to use vicious slash you'll be building rage up again anyways. Enrage, saber throw (with the 2 set bonus), force choke, and sundering assault for rage building to keep your debuff up. The crappy main attack that builds rage is your last choice in rage building prioritization.

 

So a basic rotation might look like this. Force leap, enrage, sundering assault, ravage, shatter, force scream, impale, potential ravage off proc, smash, saber throw, force choke, etc.

 

The concept is you want to Ravage before Impale and Shatter because they both can reset ravage, and Impale and Shatter basically cause Force Scream to autocrit. Keeping that cycle going is your main priority and your second priority is making sure you use the most efficient and dps heavy rage builders. The other thing I would note is once Vicious Throw is available (the skill that opens up when the mob is at 20% health or below) then you can adjust your rotation to something like: ravage, shatter, vicious throw, impale, force scream, smash, the rage builders and do it again.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Rethos

[Darth_Nihilis]

I see that build still has accuracy. Is that really required? Seems like once you hit 100% with gear that skill would become redundant. That and you didn't take Deafening defense. think the damage reduction would be a bit useful.

[kwakkwak]

I see that build still has accuracy. Is that really required? Seems like once you hit 100% with gear that skill would become redundant. That and you didn't take Deafening defense. think the damage reduction would be a bit useful.

 

the 3% hit lets you remod your gear. you're going to be stacking surge to 75% then as much power and str in your gear as you can get. so having 3% less accr on your gear helps you out a lot.

[Dindrane]

Im using almost the same heavy vengeance build you postet and completed all Hard Modes with it you can check those out here:

 

Soa and Sorno are Still uploading ^-^

 

Eternity Vault

Annihilation Droid XRR-3 Hard Mode

Gharj Hard Mode

Ancient Pylons Hard Mode

Infernal Council Hard Mode

 

Karagga's Palace

Bonethrasher Hard Mode

Foreman Crusher Hard Mode

G4-BC Heavy Fabricator Hard Mode

Karagga the Fatty Hard Mode

 

Specials

Soa Fails Hard Mode

[Elyx]

Rethos' build is a pretty good one. It will be even better post 1.2 as ravage is getting a pretty serious buff (both in that talent, and in base damage).

 

the reason most go with talented accuracy is it allows for other stats in your gear. think about it...you could get acurracy with your gear, but there's not other talent that gives you the secondary stats your looking for (surge/crit). so may as well invest in accuracy and use the gear itemization for surge/crit/whatever.

 

Crit is important as a major part of our damage rotation is our crit increase on ravage. the talent only boosts it by 60%, so your desire is to get crit high enough to get the total figure as clsoe to 100% as possible

 

Plus, if you look at your other viable options, nothing much will increase your DPS. The other talents may certainly look appealing pending your group participation (like the acuracy reduction from Quake...if no one else in your party can provide it, it's a nice debuff). But most classes can do that in one form or another. the rest are situational at best, or purely defensive talents. so accuracy is probably the best way to go.

[Onager]

On my Guardian I don't have the accuracy talent but may take it to remod my gear. Granted I have the talent that gives you extra damage when snared and the one that gives you free focus when you get CCed. Those are mostly quality of life/Compensatory talents though, giving you back a little DPS in times when your uptime is delayed.

 

If your uptime is never delayed, taking the accuracy thing and remodding your gear is optimal, but how many fights are truly 100% uninterrupted uptime?

Edited April 4, 2012 by Onager

[Rethos]

Yeah, the accuracy talent lets me stack more crit to 30%(35% with op buff) and surge to 70% and my accuracy is at around 105% now. We've done all nightmare content at this point and my damage vids are making the mercs jealous so I can't complain.

 

Bosses have a base chance of 10% to avoid your attacks outright at 100% accuracy. So at 105% accuracy a raid boss has a 5% chance to avoid my attack outright. Some will argue I should go 100% accuracy and 35% cirt (40% with buff) or 75% surge but this stat mix has produced the best dps numbers for me hands down. I even went all the way to 110% accuracy but the drop in surge then became a dps loss for me.

 

To answer your question though about defeaning defense. The only thing it really offers is that 4% damage reduction. The intimidating roar is useless in a boss fight and where it is useful the normal cooldown is fine. But I use my intercede very effectively. I pick a healer who i intercede to, off cooldown, and then force leap back at the boss. 20% damage reduction every time I do it for both of us. All my healers tell me I am taking less damage than our ranged guys so it must be working

Edited April 5, 2012 by Rethos

[Rethos]

Rethos' build is a pretty good one. It will be even better post 1.2 as ravage is getting a pretty serious buff (both in that talent, and in base damage).

 

And yeah, with the patch, this style of vengeance dps is getting buffed which is great news. Basically every change they are making to the vengeance spec favors my build.

[Onager]

Yeah, the accuracy talent lets me stack more crit to 30%(35% with op buff) and surge to 70% and my accuracy is at around 105% now. We've done all nightmare content at this point and my damage vids are making the mercs jealous so I can't complain.

 

Bosses have a base chance of 10% to avoid your attacks outright at 100% accuracy. So at 105% accuracy a raid boss has a 5% chance to avoid my attack outright. Some will argue I should go 100% accuracy and 35% cirt (40% with buff) or 75% surge but this stat mix has produced the best dps numbers for me hands down. I even went all the way to 110% accuracy but the drop in surge then became a dps loss for me.

 

To answer your question though about defeaning defense. The only thing it really offers is that 4% damage reduction. The intimidating roar is useless in a boss fight and where it is useful the normal cooldown is fine. But I use my intercede very effectively. I pick a healer who i intercede to, off cooldown, and then force leap back at the boss. 20% damage reduction every time I do it for both of us. All my healers tell me I am taking less damage than our ranged guys so it must be working

 

I have several power/surge mods I'd probably use and one crit/surge. Right at 300 AR right now. Were I to pick up the accuracy talent I'd probably lean more towards the power/surge stuff, since I get autocrits.

[TheClap]

This is my current build, since I saw no use in wasting skills on Vicious Slash since I dont use it:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101bMZIGMR0uddGRZh.1

 

Basically, my rotation is:

Throw saber

Leap to target

Sundering Assault

Shatter

Force Scream

Sundering Assault

Impale

Smash

Sundering Assault

Shatter

Force Scream

Sundering Assault

Impale

Ravage (2 ticks)

Enrage

 

And repeat

 

And then I'll work in Saber Throw or whatever its called if I need rage and Enrage is on CD. I'll also use the saber throw at 20% thing whenever its off CD.

 

 

The talents arent perfect, but I find you end up with points that dont have a place to go if youre only taking whats needed. For instance, I took the accuracy talent even though that brings me to 110.8% force acc and 99.8% melee acc.

 

 

I havent paid any attention to the changes 1.2 is bringing so I have no idea if this will be viable long term.

[Rethos]

I have several power/surge mods I'd probably use and one crit/surge. Right at 300 AR right now. Were I to pick up the accuracy talent I'd probably lean more towards the power/surge stuff, since I get autocrits.

 

You get autocrits if you are statistically close enough with your crit rating to do so. 30% base crit + 60% crit increase (shatter or impale causing force scream to have this much more crit rating) + 5% operative buff puts you at 95% chance to crit. Technically its not an autocrit. Not like the way smash works in rage spec for example. I have spec'd both ways. Power/Surge vs Crit / Surge and I am doing way more damage this way because my other skills are criting. If you think of Juggernaut as the 2 hander wielder of the sith warriors and the Marauder as the dual wielder of the sith warriors it makes sense to stack more crit/surge.

 

But thats only for force scream. I'm pretty sure you want your 3 tic ravage, shatter, impale, and vicious throw to all crit as well considering the single shot damage they do? Stack crit/surge.

 

Also as a melee class, general mmo theory supports the fact that, any time you're in a movement heavy fight you need to be able to bring the highest burst dps you can when on target to compensate for the advantage ranged dps tends to have on us. Force leap isn't always up and sometimes you are walking to target.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Rethos

[Rethos]

This is my current build, since I saw no use in wasting skills on Vicious Slash since I dont use it:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101bMZIGMR0uddGRZh.1

 

Basically, my rotation is:

Throw saber

Leap to target

Sundering Assault

Shatter

Force Scream

Sundering Assault

Impale

Smash

Sundering Assault

Shatter

Force Scream

Sundering Assault

Impale

Ravage (2 ticks)

Enrage

 

And repeat

 

And then I'll work in Saber Throw or whatever its called if I need rage and Enrage is on CD. I'll also use the saber throw at 20% thing whenever its off CD.

 

 

The talents arent perfect, but I find you end up with points that dont have a place to go if youre only taking whats needed. For instance, I took the accuracy talent even though that brings me to 110.8% force acc and 99.8% melee acc.

 

 

I havent paid any attention to the changes 1.2 is bringing so I have no idea if this will be viable long term.

 

You should move the 'deafening defense' into 'unstoppable' in the vengeance line. Force leap is our bread and butter skill to move around quickly in fights like Soa during hard and nightmare modes. Number crunchers will always try to tout a permanent lower mitigation 'over time' versus a higher situational mitigation. For DPS the damage we take tends to be highly situational though. A boss turning on us for his aoe swipe or jumping into the air to smash us. A situational 40% is always better than a permanent 4% in heavy damage phases that affect dps.

 

So this is what I do, I will intercede to my healer for the 20% and then force leap back to the boss for another 20%. I do this when the boss is about to do something that may actually hit me as a dps player. A stacked 40% mitigation when I need mitigation rather than a 4% when I probably won't get hit much. There are several fights I could use as examples to support this in both operations so the point is mute.

 

You should also move the 'quake' points into 'battle cry' in the immortal tree. That free force scream means you'll get another shatter or impale off before having to build rage again. An extra 3k to 5k damage per rotation. Besides the tank doesn't need your 5% acc debuff and if he does something is wrong with your tank or your healers.

 

And stop dropping ravage off after 2 tics. The largest hit and crit typically comes on the last tic of damage. Its also timed as a non rage skill to help you maintain and build rage organically while other rage using skills are on CD. Not to mention, there is a reason impale and shatter have a chance to auto end its cooldown (which means ravage should be ahead of both attacks in priority to take advantage of having mutliple ravage attacks). It does a lot of damage. Its our highest dps skill if used fully and each tic has a chance to crit.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Rethos

[Marauder]

Is vengeance a better dps build than rage for a level 32 jugg for pve leveling, heroics, flashpoints, etc?

[lordofdamornin]

Is vengeance a better dps build than rage for a level 32 jugg for pve leveling, heroics, flashpoints, etc?

 

I would say yes, simply because Rage doesn't really start to shine until you have both abilities that build your Smash bombs. Prior to level 40, you are relying solely on Choke, which has a long CD.

 

Both work just fine, I just think Vengeance (or Immortal) are the better choice prior to 40.

 

Edit: Just to add, the changes coming in 1.2 (in 2 days) should make levelling as Rage a better prospect than it currently is. Perhaps slightly better than Vengeance, though I think it will just come down to playstyle, and opinion.

 

Riôt

Edited April 10, 2012 by lordofdamornin

[Elyx]

I would say yes, simply because Rage doesn't really start to shine until you have both abilities that build your Smash bombs. Prior to level 40, you are relying solely on Choke, which has a long CD.

 

Both work just fine, I just think Vengeance (or Immortal) are the better choice prior to 40.

 

Edit: Just to add, the changes coming in 1.2 (in 2 days) should make levelling as Rage a better prospect than it currently is. Perhaps slightly better than Vengeance, though I think it will just come down to playstyle, and opinion.

 

Riôt

 

Agree. post 40 I believe it's personal choice. both playstyles differ enough at that point that you may simply enjoy one over the other

[Elyx]

You should move the 'deafening defense' into 'unstoppable' in the vengeance line. Force leap is our bread and butter skill to move around quickly in fights like Soa during hard and nightmare modes. Number crunchers will always try to tout a permanent lower mitigation 'over time' versus a higher situational mitigation. For DPS the damage we take tends to be highly situational though. A boss turning on us for his aoe swipe or jumping into the air to smash us. A situational 40% is always better than a permanent 4% in heavy damage phases that affect dps.

 

So this is what I do, I will intercede to my healer for the 20% and then force leap back to the boss for another 20%. I do this when the boss is about to do something that may actually hit me as a dps player. A stacked 40% mitigation when I need mitigation rather than a 4% when I probably won't get hit much. There are several fights I could use as examples to support this in both operations so the point is mute.

 

You should also move the 'quake' points into 'battle cry' in the immortal tree. That free force scream means you'll get another shatter or impale off before having to build rage again. An extra 3k to 5k damage per rotation. Besides the tank doesn't need your 5% acc debuff and if he does something is wrong with your tank or your healers.

 

And stop dropping ravage off after 2 tics. The largest hit and crit typically comes on the last tic of damage. Its also timed as a non rage skill to help you maintain and build rage organically while other rage using skills are on CD. Not to mention, there is a reason impale and shatter have a chance to auto end its cooldown (which means ravage should be ahead of both attacks in priority to take advantage of having mutliple ravage attacks). It does a lot of damage. Its our highest dps skill if used fully and each tic has a chance to crit.

 

I agree with this. Melee damage (given your not the tank) is usually spike in nature and often timed (with ivusal indicators). The typical "here comes the red stuff...move!" ideology. timing intercede with your leap is much more effective then a regular 4%. I find that the regular 4% is more beneficial when your doing stuff like dailies, where you get regular pounding. Raid....I'd go with the Huddle