Captain_Zone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Immaculate conception's NEVER implied in the movies... the phrase refers to Mary, not Jesus. It's about her being born without sin, which is why she was chosen to have that baby, if you believe that sorta thing. There's nothing implied about Shmi being born 'without sin'. Ok, this is the last I'm going to say on this subject. Out of morbid curiosity I decided to check the thread one last time and saw this. This is the basic definition of Immaculate Conception as understood by the average person: Conceived of a deity or other non-physical means. i.e. Mary and Jesus or Shmi and Anakin. Seriously, it seems the midichlorians decided to knock Shmi up one night after a party, and didn't even bother to buy her a drink first..... And this is why we need 90s style POSITIVE CONTROL by LucasArts over the Expanded Universe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboturner Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 My 50p - from what I remember 114D tells palpatine that plagueis had been successful creating life on the animals in cages. Therefore I feel that him being the creator of anakin is a feasible explanation but is not confirmed. Also someone said that plagueis died before episode 1. im pretty sure he died between episode 1 and 2 as he'd heard of anakin winning the pod race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufy Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Also someone said that plagueis died before episode 1. im pretty sure he died between episode 1 and 2 as he'd heard of anakin winning the pod race. Always two there are, a master and an apprentice. If Plagueis was still alive at the time, Palpatine would have to train Maul in secret for years and even more - he would have to openly reveal him before Plagueis would die. That should ring more than one alarm bell in his master's mastermind head, particularly in the order that thrives on betrayal. After the successful takeover of the republic and the breaking of the jedi, they just forget about the remaining jedi and write their memoirs. Generations of planning to destroy their ancestral enemies, the only real threat they face, and they just walk off and leave a few hundred. They don't really forget them. After all, the remainder is actively chased and killed by Vader and the hunt is called off only shortly before Javin, with very few Jedi remaining and none in a position to even remotely threaten the Emperor. In fact, it took a series of unforseen events just to put Luke in a position to threaten him and even then it was through a proxy - no other Jedi would come anywhere close to achieving what he achieved. Truth be told, the only person who ever stood a chance of beating Palpatine was Windu right there at the start. I always wondered what would have happened, had he chosen to take Anakin with him into that fight, to have him whitness the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofwater Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Anakin was created in response to Darth Plagueis's attempts to recreate life and a powerful Ally to the darkside of the force. Directly or Indirectly it seems that Anakin was created because of Darth Plagueis's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Always two there are, a master and an apprentice. If Plagueis was still alive at the time, Palpatine would have to train Maul in secret for years and even more - he would have to openly reveal him before Plagueis would die. That should ring more than one alarm bell in his master's mastermind head, particularly in the order that thrives on betrayal. They don't really forget them. After all, the remainder is actively chased and killed by Vader and the hunt is called off only shortly before Javin, with very few Jedi remaining and none in a position to even remotely threaten the Emperor. In fact, it took a series of unforseen events just to put Luke in a position to threaten him and even then it was through a proxy - no other Jedi would come anywhere close to achieving what he achieved. Truth be told, the only person who ever stood a chance of beating Palpatine was Windu right there at the start. I always wondered what would have happened, had he chosen to take Anakin with him into that fight, to have him whitness the whole thing. It's been a while since I saw Episode one but I believe Palpatine HAD been keeping Maul a secret. Some certain lines were said that revealed he was... shrug. Maybe I'm wrong. Edited April 2, 2012 by spectreclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Always two there are, a master and an apprentice. If Plagueis was still alive at the time, Palpatine would have to train Maul in secret for years and even more - he would have to openly reveal him before Plagueis would die. That should ring more than one alarm bell in his master's mastermind head, particularly in the order that thrives on betrayal. Plagueis wanted to break the rule of two, let the two of them rule the galaxy forever because he almost achieved corporal immortality. He knew Maul's existence, he ordered Maul to be trained only as a assassin rather than a true Sith Lord. Also Maul didn't know anything about his master's master. Edited April 2, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSafana Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 My theory- As soon as Sidious got word that Anakin existed. He realized that Plaqueis succeeded in creating his soon to be apprentice and no longer needed him. He kills Plaqueis around episode 1 and allows the Jedi to train Anakin for his purposes. He was secretly training Maul as his apprentice. Anytime your sith apprentice starts to train another apprentice, your days are numbered. Sidious orchestrated every move Anakin and the Jedi council made from that day forward. I'm curious which Sith had the forethought to have the jedi create a clone army for them. I watch the movies and believe everything occurs because Sidious planned it that way. except Jar-jar and the Ewoks, that blame goes to GL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 My theory- As soon as Sidious got word that Anakin existed. He realized that Plaqueis succeeded in creating his soon to be apprentice and no longer needed him. He kills Plaqueis around episode 1 and allows the Jedi to train Anakin for his purposes. He was secretly training Maul as his apprentice. Anytime your sith apprentice starts to train another apprentice, your days are numbered. Sidious orchestrated every move Anakin and the Jedi council made from that day forward. I'm curious which Sith had the forethought to have the jedi create a clone army for them. I watch the movies and believe everything occurs because Sidious planned it that way. except Jar-jar and the Ewoks, that blame goes to GL. Except they didn't succeed, and they knew that they had failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyer Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I actually read an article about that very theory some time ago. It is possible that Anakin was the key part of Plagueis's master plan to destroy the jedi and that by conceiving him through the dark side of the force, he would be mistaken by the Jedi as the chosen one of prophecy. I wish I still had that link for reference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHierophant Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) This is why I despise the EU, or at least parts of it. Here we have Sidious, evil mastermind genius, worked with Plagueis, another mastermind genius, all to destroy the jedi. According to Plagueis, as I recall anyway, generations of Sith had come and gone, all plotting and planning for the eventual overthrow of their hereditary enemies. After the successful takeover of the republic and the breaking of the jedi, they just forget about the remaining jedi and write their memoirs. Generations of planning to destroy their ancestral enemies, the only real threat they face, and they just walk off and leave a few hundred. I will readily admit that I am not an evil genius, but I can certainly call that stupid. Maybe if there were five or six still around, I'd feel pretty safe and secure. A few hundred? No way. I'd make it one of my main priorities to wipe out the remainder, leave no risk of them coming back at all. After all, if the sith stayed in hiding all those years and made a come back, why not the jedi? I'm sure Palpatine would be intelligent enough to look at his own example and see a point of concern with leaving enemies alone. I think you need to consider what exactly this plan would entail. First, I think we should make clear that 'Jedi' refers to the order, NOT the light side of the Force. Thus, we can have Dark Jedi. It is this Order that comprises the main threat to Palpatine, not necessarily the adherence to the light. Destroying the Jedi means destroying the Order. We know that both Obi-Wan and Yoda took precautions to hide their identity, and particularly to hide their affiliation with the Jedi Order. To do this, they would need to make sure no one could sense them via the Force. Obi-Wan hid on Tatooine (unlikely to come in contact with the very few Force-sensitives left, namely Palapatine, Vader, Mara Jade, etc.) and Yoda hid on Dagobah in close proximity to an area strong with the dark side. The Empire would have had to literally do a sweep of the entire galaxy with the aforementioned people. It would take lifetimes to achieve this, and I doubt Vader nor Palpatine wanted to spend their time going from one inhabited place to the next trying to find a Jedi via the Force. In addition to not having the Sith available to run down Jedi that may or may not exist, the Empire had to remake the galaxy in its image. Suppressing revolts and destroying peaceful/independent species takes a lot of work. Also, there is strong evidence to suggest Palpatine was aware of the Yuuzhan Vong, and was preparing for their invasion (the clone factories on Mykyr, Thrawn's campaign in the Unknown Region, the Outbound Flight, and mention of Zenoma Sekot are would likely have been brought to the Emperor's attention). If you had to devote limited resources, would you direct them to chasing down a handful of Jedi that are powerless, or direct them to preparing for an extra-galactic race with unknown technology? Edited April 2, 2012 by AHierophant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) I actually read an article about that very theory some time ago. It is possible that Anakin was the key part of Plagueis's master plan to destroy the jedi and that by conceiving him through the dark side of the force, he would be mistaken by the Jedi as the chosen one of prophecy. I wish I still had that link for reference... No he just wanted to test his ability and thought he failed at that time. Both Plagueis and Sidious were in panic when they heard about Anakin because they knew the prophecy, Plagueis tried to see Anakin and stop him from being Jedi but Qui Gon Jinn picked the boy away before he arrived. Edited April 3, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) It's possible, however unlikely, since Plagueis was actually a Muun. Y'know, the long necked guys in charge of the Banking Clans. And even if he managed to manipulate the Midichlorians in a person, he would have had to do so with Shmi being in close proximity, otherwise he would have "made" Anakin from half the galaxy away. Then there's also age difference. Shmi is, what, 40 years old by the time EP1 takes place? Plagueis is long dead, and Palpy is in his 50's. Using this, Shmi would have had to have gotten pregnant before Palpy killed Plagueis, which we can guess was quite a long time ago since, according to the Star Wars Wiki, Palpatine had been a Senator for a very long time. Just my 2 cents. Plagueis is alive during Episode 1, he is killed shortly after or before Darth Maul gets bisected, can't remember which. Source 1: Look under the Deaths this is the year Episode 1 happens http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/32_BBY Source 2: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis#The_death_of_Darth_Plagueis Edited April 3, 2012 by Tuscad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCelestial Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) No he just wanted to test his ability and thought he failed at that time. Both Plagueis and Sidious were in panic when they heard about Anakin because they knew the prophecy, Plagueis tried to see Anakin and stop him from being Jedi but Qui Gon Jinn picked the boy away before he arrived. Plagueis never created Anakin but the force did to bring back balance. Edited April 3, 2012 by DarkCelestial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauBard Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 And why can't Anakin be the product of immaculate conception? Only Jesus can huh? I guess you never read about Horus, Attis, Mithra, Krishna, or Dionysis? They were all born of a virgin and they all predated Jesus. Its a valid literary tool. Anakin didn't have a father, deal with it. http://loltheists.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/horus-attis-mithra-krishna-dionysus.jpg And why are people arguing against what is clearly stated in the Darth Plagueis book? It is EU but it is also canon. Just because you dislike it, doesn't mean it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenvegar Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Sidious orchestrated every move Anakin and the Jedi council made from that day forward. I'm curious which Sith had the forethought to have the jedi create a clone army for them. According to the novel "Darth Plagueis", Darth Plagueis gave the Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas the idea to order such an army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 IF George ever comes out and tells us exactly what happened, and it turns out to be a drunken party incident where Shmi doesn't remember his name.... I'm gonna laugh my *** off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceinlys Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The novel is vague about this point, but it is stated that Plagueis and Palpatine through intense meditation and Sith Ritual managed to tip the balance of the force so the dark side was accendant (this is the shroud of the Dark-side that Yoda and Windu go on about that limits their ability to see the future). In retaliation to this the Living Force creates a powerful force-user to restore balance ie. Anakin. Both Palpatine and Plagueis then focus on turning Anakin to the dark side to further destroy balance, but Palpatine turns on his master the very night Plagueis tries to visit Anakin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBackhandler Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Here's my idea of the relationship between Anakin, Sidious & Plagueis. Plagueis had originally masterminded the clone wars before he was "killed" by Sidious. I believe that Plagueis knew of Palpatine's plot and allowed Sidious to move his plans forward, killing him self in the process. However Plagueis had his son Anakin to ensure the death of Sidious & retain a power vacuum at the top. The chosen one, may have in fact been chosen by Plagueis to fulfill that purpose. In episode 7 I think that Luke may prove to be the new servant of Plagueis, if not a direct reincarnation. Thus changing absolutely everything we thought we new about w star wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm pretty sure the Darth Plagueis novel states that the Force created Anakin because of Plagueis and Sheev messing with the Balance of the Force. +1 to me using Sheev, -1 for supporting the necro. And, yes, I did +1 my own post. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm pretty sure the Darth Plagueis novel states that the Force created Anakin because of Plagueis and Sheev messing with the Balance of the Force. +1 to me using Sheev, -1 for supporting the necro. And, yes, I did +1 my own post. Deal with it. +1? For that sir you deserve a ban! He Who Must Not Be Named, Aurbere. He Who Must Not Be Named! But yeah, Plagueis is not Anakin's father in any respect. Anakin is a child of the Force created in response to Plagueis and Palpatine upsetting the balance of the Force. That's Palpatine people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 +1? For that sir you deserve a ban! He Who Must Not Be Named, Aurbere. He Who Must Not Be Named! But yeah, Plagueis is not Anakin's father in any respect. Anakin is a child of the Force created in response to Plagueis and Palpatine upsetting the balance of the Force. That's Palpatine people! I think, as a prominent member of this forum, I should get to say Sheev at least once a day. It's funny. Stupid, but funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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