About Karen Traviss Hate...

[Aximand]

The reason for this is because she damaged the Star Wars universe in such a severe way that it has taken years for authors to finally erase most of what she has done. Authors are still trying to fix things even now because of her.

 

Also no, it isn't opinion, direct, public, video statements from Karen Traviss' boss (which are in that SDCC video) are not "opinion" as you put it.

 

Which video is it? I'm on part 3 at the moment.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Which video is it? I'm on part 3 at the moment.

 

I believe it is SDCC that has Shapiro in it? She was the person who was basically Karen's boss as she was in charge of the EU novels at the time.

 

I don't remember the exact moment (I was at the panel live) but there is a comment where someone asks if Mandalorians or Boba Fett will be in FotJ and Denning and Allston make comments regarding her, then Shapiro in the same video says something to the effect of, "We won't be dealing with her (behavior) anymore."

 

Hehe... Side note... Those authors are all really cool to talk to in real life too. Denning is a great guy. At Cel V I got every author to sign my copy of FotJ Abyss.

Edited April 1, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Captain_Zone]

Fact is there is no Legal or illegal statement from her or her employers "LucasArts" , so everything on her leaving is here say.

I can agree she did handle canon oddly but she was not the first or last. One can argue that EU really has tampered with canon anyways as the Story really ends after ROTJ as Lucas has stated.

 

What she said about those fans who attacked her shown her go down to her level but no one on these threads are any better . Including you who HAS insulted me with names in this very thread.

But she is not continueing to talk about anything starwars and has moved on to other projects , and you and others are still stuck on her.

 

So her own former teammates in the Expanded Universe don't know squat either, right? They weren't informed of LucasArts's decision to can her. Right? They don't know jack because there is no OFFICIAL posting of her notice of termination, right?

 

You are being willfully blind here, like Invictos said. We've steered you towards youtube where it's all laid out, and you refuse to even go look. Some of the things said by her former colleagues are very enlightening, if you would take the time to go look.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Aximand]

I believe it is SDCC that has Shapiro in it? She was the person who was basically Karen's boss as she was in charge of the EU novels at the time.

 

I don't remember the exact moment (I was at the panel live) but there is a comment where someone asks if Mandalorians or Boba Fett will be in FotJ and Denning and Allston make comments regarding her, then Shapiro in the same video says something to the effect of, "We won't be dealing with her (behavior) anymore."

 

Hehe... Side note... Those authors are all really cool to talk to in real life too. Denning is a great guy. At Cel V I got every author to sign my copy of FotJ Abyss.

 

I heard someone respond to the Boba question by saying "we don't have anyone on staff that's absolutely in love with Boba Fett anymore, so no", might be a different panel.

[mefit]

Yes, so you would try to make it harder for me to rebuke you instead of having the courtesy to break it up.

 

 

 

Nope. The book specifically said they were wiped out, not spread out.

 

 

 

Yes. I am. This isn't in dispute and for you to even try to do so says that you have done no research what so ever on who you are arguing with. My credentials have been placed on these very forums more than once. You were simply trying to insult me because you don't have any argument to stand on.

 

What book have you wroten ? Most Professors have work that a student can follow? You have anything to prove? What school? What State? I can come up with many Jobs , professions , careers with easy and show anything you'd like answers to. To be honest the fact that you even posted your work online means you are trying to go above and beyond to try to approve something, And IF you are a Professor by Trade, I find you to be one that should not be in that trade when you have to go as low to call someone a "KID" for questioning your trade. Usually Professors try to be professional as they are working in a field that requires one to look Professional and respectful at all timesz

 

The statements of her coworkers are not what I would call hearsay. I told you specifically what information you could look up. That you have chosen not to do so is your folly not mine.

To be honest I do go to blogs and I have yet to see any coworker come out in saying anything . I do think once I see 1 person at lucas arts say she had poor judgement in how she called StarWars fans taht attacked her a name. But they are in the world of making money .

 

 

This isn't a matter of opinion actually.

Totally a matter of Opinion

They complain about Jedi, they talk down about them, specifically regarding things their own people do.

Jedi have been talked down to before, you mean mandos are suppose to be above that?

Mandalorians, for example, frequently raid defenseless outposts. They murder the men, and any women remaining are used as it were, and children are taken to be raised as Mandos. Yet these same people decry the Jedi practice of taking Force Sensitive children and refer to them as kidnappers which is not only completely incorrect terminology from a legal standpoint within the Republic but it is far more courteous than murdering the children's parents first.

KotoR painted them out to be just the same, not to mention it also says they intergrate planets into them to build their army.

In the KotOR era they respected worthy enemies. They respected the Jedi. They weren't sore losers regarding the events of the war. In the Karen Traviss universe they take any chance they can to downplay and slander the Jedi out of nothing but petty insecurity, this is doubly true as they never were able to back up their boasts.

Mandos are people , they are not robots . Bobba Fett did not respect the Jedi and neither did his father the guy he was cloned from . They are canon Mandos

 

Me Red

[Invictos]

Fact is there is no Legal or illegal statement from her or her employers "LucasArts" , so everything on her leaving is here say.

I can agree she did handle canon oddly but she was not the first or last. One can argue that EU really has tampered with canon anyways as the Story really ends after ROTJ as Lucas has stated.

 

What she said about those fans who attacked her shown her go down to her level but no one on these threads are any better . Including you who HAS insulted me with names in this very thread.

But she is not continueing to talk about anything starwars and has moved on to other projects , and you and others are still stuck on her.

 

Alright, this is the last time I respond to you, ever.

 

1. Whether I'm better or worse than Karen Traviss is not at issue. I'm not being paid to represent a huge sci-fi franchise. Whether you're a novelist or a freaking waiter, your standard of behavior is higher than that of your customers.
   
2. I don't even have a personal investment in this issue, as I don't even like the EU. I only got interested in the subject of Traviss after stumbling across discussions about her here. From there, I went and read up on the woman, and even read her Legacy of the Force books for reference. I came to the conclusion that the woman is a ponce, irrespective of her treatment of fictional characters. Hate to break the news, but my perspective is about as close as you're gonna get to the proverbial fresh-eyed third party.
   
3. You insulted me first, broski. Unless, of course, your obvious difficulty with reading and writing caused for some confusion about the quote below. If I did misunderstand, then I apologize, but between your perpetual insistence that anything short of the word of God isn't factual, and your insistence that everyone who disagrees with you is a bully, your posting style is generally abrasive.
   
4. Once again, there are laws to restrain employers from black balling former employees. The woman could have been the worst employee in the history of LucasArts, and there still wouldn't be an official press release detailing all of her transgressions; it's just not done, and for good reason.
   
5. Related to #4, the fact that Traviss takes shots at LucasArts when she knows full well that they can't respond in kind only makes her look more petty. Yes, that's a subjective judgment, but it's about as clear-cut as inherently subjective judgments get. Her behavior is indefensible on a professional level.

 

The promised quote, from point 3:

 

Could be in all honest the post you called a sentence of words , sorry I cannot read Invictos language all that well :/.

 

(Edited to add a clarification about where I"m coming from with this whole issue.)

Edited April 1, 2012 by Invictos

[ProfessorWalsh]

I heard someone respond to the Boba question by saying "we don't have anyone on staff that's absolutely in love with Boba Fett anymore, so no", might be a different panel.

 

Keep watching that panel. I think that is the video it happens in. It is near the end of it if I recall.

 

You must understand I go to these things a lot and after about 8 panels things start kind of blurring together.

[mefit]

So her own former teammates in the Expanded Universe don't know squat either, right? They weren't informed of LucasArts's decision to can her. Right? They don't know jack because there is no OFFICIAL posting of her notice of termination, right?

 

You are being willfully blind here, like Invictos said. We've steered you towards youtube where it's all laid out, and you refuse to even go look. Some of the things said by her former colleagues are very enlightening, if you would take the time to go look.

 

Link it from a Offical site , I am just not a follower who jumps into everyones so called facts .

 

What even got me here is the going on of these threads and post. I posted maybe 2-3times in teh Mara Jade thread and then left it alone. Now that this has gone on in maybe 3 threads that I know of now, I have been a standard defender of Karen .

I am just a good willed person who will not sit by while anyone is being attacked constantly . If today people piled onto Walsh , I would be there defending him too and we can all see how critical I am of his post.

 

I just do not see why this has to go on when she is no longer employed by LucasArts by Her will or otherwise .

LucasArts being a pretty good employer on how it never seemed to ever put out ending jobs of its workforce other than if someone died . It usually ends with the "WE PARTED WAYS ......blah blah blah" .

[ProfessorWalsh]

Me Red

 

What book have you wroten ? Most Professors have work that a student can follow? You have anything to prove? What school? What State? I can come up with many Jobs , professions , careers with easy and show anything you'd like answers to. To be honest the fact that you even posted your work online means you are trying to go above and beyond to try to approve something, And IF you are a Professor by Trade, I find you to be one that should not be in that trade when you have to go as low to call someone a "KID" for questioning your trade. Usually Professors try to be professional as they are working in a field that requires one to look Professional and respectful at all timesz

 

School: Wiregrass Technical College (at the moment)

State: Georgia

Years of Experience: 6

 

Want my college e-mail address too?

How about the list of classes I teach?

Would you like for me to have an admissions representative send you a brochure?

 

You were the one who started this thing, you came in and started insulting my credentials before I even said anything to you. I don't mind proving my profession to anyone, but when you start trying to attack that profession it bothers me quite a bit. I wear my title as a professor very very proudly.

Edited April 1, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Captain_Zone]

Alright, this is the last time I respond to you, ever.

 

1. Whether I'm better or worse than Karen Traviss is not at issue. I'm not being paid to represent a huge sci-fi franchise. Whether you're a novelist or a freaking waiter, your standard of behavior is higher than that of your customers.
   
2. You insulted me first, broski. Unless, of course, your obvious difficulty with reading and writing caused for some confusion about the quote below. If I did misunderstand, then I apologize, but between your perpetual insistence that anything short of the word of God isn't factual, combined with your painting everyone who disagrees with you as a bully, your posting style is generally abrasive.
   
3. Once again, there are laws to restrain employers from black balling former employees. The woman could have been the worst employee in the history of LucasArts, and there still wouldn't be an official press release detailing all of her transgressions; it's just not done, and for good reason.
   
4. Related to #3, the fact that Traviss takes shots at LucasArts when she knows full well that they can't respond in kind only makes her look more petty. Yes, that's a subjective judgment, but it's about as clear-cut as inherently subjective judgment get. Her behavior is indefensible on a professional level.

 

The promised quote, from point 2:

 

I'm with you. Not responding to him anymore. We've pointed to youtube where the videos are, and he's still being a brick wall. Not going to bang my head against it anymore.

 

 

Btw, I love the broski remark. Good one, mate.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[mefit]

Alright, this is the last time I respond to you, ever.

 

1. Whether I'm better or worse than Karen Traviss is not at issue. I'm not being paid to represent a huge sci-fi franchise. Whether you're a novelist or a freaking waiter, your standard of behavior is higher than that of your customers.
   
2. I don't even have a personal investment in this issue, as I don't even like the EU. I only got interested in the subject of Traviss after stumbling across discussions about her here. From there, I went and read up on the woman, and even read her Legacy of the Force books for reference. I came to the conclusion that the woman is a ponce, irrespective of her treatment of fictional characters. Hate to break the news, but my perspective is about as close as you're gonna get to the proverbial fresh-eyed third party.
   
3. You insulted me first, broski. Unless, of course, your obvious difficulty with reading and writing caused for some confusion about the quote below. If I did misunderstand, then I apologize, but between your perpetual insistence that anything short of the word of God isn't factual, combined with your painting everyone who disagrees with you as a bully, your posting style is generally abrasive.
   
4. Once again, there are laws to restrain employers from black balling former employees. The woman could have been the worst employee in the history of LucasArts, and there still wouldn't be an official press release detailing all of her transgressions; it's just not done, and for good reason.
   
5. Related to #4, the fact that Traviss takes shots at LucasArts when she knows full well that they can't respond in kind only makes her look more petty. Yes, that's a subjective judgment, but it's about as clear-cut as inherently subjective judgment get. Her behavior is indefensible on a professional level.

 

The promised quote, from point 3:

 

You won't have to worry about it , you will be the first and last person I put on my ignore, as your are just a standard of insults and really have nothing to offer otherwise . To be honest it is funny you would be the first as I debate/argue with Walsh and such more than I have even had time to look at your posting .

 

Takecare and have fun ^^

Not thinking you are a bad person but really I wish to end the constant flame you are bringing to just me .

 

Irony, thy name is mefit. Google translate would choke trying to parse the quote above.

No insult here right lol Edited April 1, 2012 by mefit

[Aximand]

Keep watching that panel. I think that is the video it happens in. It is near the end of it if I recall.

 

You must understand I go to these things a lot and after about 8 panels things start kind of blurring together.

 

Yea I getcha. This is the one where they're all lined up on a table with a white cloth with their little paper name plates on the front and the dude is talking about Flow Walking. I'll keep watching.

[ProfessorWalsh]

You won't have to worry about it , you will be the first and last person I put on my ignore, as your are just a standard of insults and really have nothing to offer otherwise . To be honest it is funny you would be the first as I debate/argue with Walsh and such more than I have even had time to look at your posting .

 

Takecare and have fun ^^

Not thinking you are a bad person but really I wish to end the constant flame you are bringing to just me .

 

He didn't make any insults. I think though that I will agree with them and cease any further discourse with you. I agree with the assertions put forth by others in this thread, you were just trying to start a heated debate and get people riled up. I, unfortunately, fell for it and fed you... I won't be making that mistake further.

[mefit]

He didn't make any insults. I think though that I will agree with them and cease any further discourse with you. I agree with the assertions put forth by others in this thread, you were just trying to start a heated debate and get people riled up. I, unfortunately, fell for it and fed you... I won't be making that mistake further.

 

As long as the Attack threads are there , I will be there to defend , Real people are more important than characters in a novel or comic or movie or game.

To be honest it will not hurt my feelings if any of you didn't reply to me , and I find it sad that these threads are even allowed on a Forum ment for a game that is suppose to be positive and not negative .

[Fyurii]

No one in Lucas Arts is saying anything you said above, so its all Opinion sorry .

 

So because nobody in Lucas Arts shares my own observations about different kinds of fans, then it's only an opinion. Thought it was blatantly clear that's what it was.

 

 

Y'know something guys & gals?

I'm starting to think that either mefit is the single biggest Traviss fan bar none... Or Traviss herself.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Fyurii

[Captain_Zone]

So because nobody in Lucas Arts shares my own observations about different kinds of fans, then it's only an opinion. Thought it was blatantly clear that's what it was.

 

 

Y'know something guys & gals?

I'm starting to think that either mefit is the single biggest Traviss fan bar none... Or Traviss herself.

 

I wouldn't be surprised by either of those, honestly. That's a scary thought, too.

[Invictos]

I'm with you. Not responding to him anymore. We've pointed to youtube where the videos are, and he's still being a brick wall. Not going to bang my head against it anymore.

 

 

Btw, I love the broski remark. Good one, mate.

 

Heh, thanks. FWIW, I'm a big fan of your coined phrases. What was the one from the other thread? Pantyfits?

[Captain_Zone]

Heh, thanks. FWIW, I'm a big fan of your coined phrases. What was the one from the other thread? Pantyfits?

 

Yeah, I made that one up.

[TKMaster]

I personally think the fault is on the Lucas camp. In the 90's, after the Thrawn trillogy kick started the EU, every sentence in EU material was looked over by Lucas / Bantam editors to ensure that canon wasnt out of context and the stories were acceptable. I didnt know that in these last few years it was just pure anarchy, wich is why i never pointed blame at Traviss, but knowing that now, i still dont, if they still policed the material none of this would have happened. Dont give authors catre blanche to write w/e then cry about what they did. No wonder everything since TNJO is piss-poor. Edited April 1, 2012 by TKMaster

[AshenK]

Traviss isn't fully at fault here.

 

Like many folks said I really did enjoy her Republic Commando books. And some of her other books like the ones based on Gears of War (yes I read them) are not all that bad. The fault comes in with how they have been doing the books from New Jedi Order and onwards. Having a number of writers doing a number of books in those arcs. And those writers having the character's change in every book.

 

It's not only that but it's also we get some good characters that show up for a book or two then we never hear about them every again or we just get a foot note about them. Plots that get forgotten or are never touched up on. A feeling of too much 'shades of gray' at times where one character starts to show change and then it's dropped in the next book. Governments like the New Republic, Empire, or the like going back and forth from working out very well to a bunch of insane people are running said governments into the ground.

 

Really I think the fault isn't Traviss I think the fault is that you have soooo many writers who want to go one way or another when they are doing those story arcs. There really isn't anyone to sit down and kinda 'direct' how those books are going to go anymore. Along with that they are trying to much to make those big arcs like New Jedi Order. Really everyone loved Heir to the Empire due to it being three long and good books.

 

Hate to say it but at this point I think the Dark Horse Comics are much more fun to read and have over all a better storyline.

[Invictos]

I personally think the fault is on the Lucas camp. In the 90's, after the Thrawn trillogy kick started the EU, every sentence in EU material was looked over by Lucas / Bantam editors to ensure that canon wasnt out of context and the stories were acceptable. I didnt know that in these last few years it was just pure anarchy, wich is why i never pointed blame at Traviss, but knowing that now, i still dont, if they still policed the material none of this would have happened. Dont give authors catre blanche to write w/e then cry about what they did. No wonder everything since TNJO is piss-poor.

Though I agree with your assessment of the EU in general, I can't give Traviss a free pass.

 

Traviss is a sympathetic figure in some ways. If you look back at her first interactions with the fan base, back in 2004 on (IIRC) the Jedi Council forums, she seems full of youthful enthusiasm. She was pleased with the arrangement she made with LucasArts, and apparently she was determined to be accessible to fans. Her first couple of novels were, as far as I can tell, well received, and so the love fest continued. She was retained to write several more novels -- partially, we can speculate, due to her promising to keep an absolutely bone-crushing work schedule. During this period, we can reasonably assume the following:

 

• Traviss' unconventional work habits and her refusal to research the source material directly were both known to LucasArts, and at least tacitly approved by LucasArts, and as a result, that
• Traviss understandably came to believe that speed in writing novels was a valued trait to LucasArts, perhaps even if that speed hurt the quality of her work.

I think anyone who's ever held a job can sympathize with the idea that, at this point (somewhere between her second novel and the beginning of controversy), Traviss felt she'd not only promised miracles, but delivered them. From her point of view, surely, she did everything the employer could have desired -- and so it must've been a huge shock when she began to take heavy criticism for her lack of thoroughness (among other things). Whether that criticism originally arose just from fans or also from LucasArts, she must've felt like the goalposts had been shifted.

 

I can also understand, to some extent, her lashing out at the fan base. If she really does deliberately exhaust herself to write her fiction (not an approach that lends itself to rigorous research or revision, btw) -- then she must be on the ragged emotional edge, almost full-time. Combine her emotional state with her having engaged too closely with the internet fan base, and you have a recipe for disaster. It's a mistake for public figures to pay much attention to anonymous internet commentary even in the best of times.

 

It wouldn't shock me if the increasingly hostile commentary of the fan base influenced her interactions with her co-workers (or collaborating authors, as the case may be), and vice-versa. It's very difficult, after all, to compartmentalize one's emotions. From there, it wouldn't be a stretch for even an ordinarily professional and well-meaning author to let an increasingly blatant thread of contrarianism to seep into her fiction, culminating in the figurative middle finger also known as Revelation.

 

The preceding is my attempt to paint Traviss' behavior in the most sympathetic light imaginable. The less sympathetic version is that Traviss is so prolific because although she works long hours, she's intellectually lazy; as someone amusingly theorized on another forum, she's essentially written the same (Celtic romance) story, over and over, regardless of the setting. The less flattering theory, then, is that Mandalorians fit as her preconceived story's protagonists, and so she set about to glorify them at the expense of the existing universe's framework, of which she only had a tenuous understanding because she admittedly refuses to read the source material.

 

But regardless of your opinion about Traviss' work, and regardless of your opinion of how LucasArts handles the EU, the fact remains that Traviss' behavior is her own. Her handlers may have given her the rope with which to hang herself, but she sure did hang herself. Other Star Wars authors have provoked controvery, but none have handled it as poorly as she did.

 

And at the end of the day, Star Wars made her career. No matter how poorly she thinks she was treated, she should be more gracious when describing her departure from the Star Wars IP, and when describing its fans. Fairly or not, her unseemly response to the rabid fringe of the fanbase only turns more casual fans against her. Like me for example. I didn't even know who Traviss was three months ago, and until I saw her comments I was inclined to take her side of the controversy. What started as mild curiosity turned into morbid fascination as the evidence of her implosion unfolded.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Invictos

[Captain_Zone]

I personally think the fault is on the Lucas camp. In the 90's, after the Thrawn trillogy kick started the EU, every sentence in EU material was looked over by Lucas / Bantam editors to ensure that canon wasnt out of context and the stories were acceptable. I didnt know that in these last few years it was just pure anarchy, wich is why i never pointed blame at Traviss, but knowing that now, i still dont, if they still policed the material none of this would have happened. Dont give authors catre blanche to write w/e then cry about what they did. No wonder everything since TNJO is piss-poor.

 

I would say the blame is shared between the LucasArts people who were supposed to be overseeing this team AND Karen Traviss for being... well, you know. She went for shock value more than anything, I believe. In writing, shock value only goes so far, and can backfire horribly if done wrong. She went about it all wrong, imo. She was hell bent on killing off Mara Jade, and did so over the strenuous objections of her teammates and without Tim Zahn even knowing about it until it was too late to stop her.

 

To me, that's like borrowing someone's car without their knowledge and then willfully crashing it into a tree. Same type of WRONG.

 

But seriously, someone should have informed Tim Zahn of her plans before she could even get started. Some are equating her to R.A. Salvatore, which is totally unfair. Their situations were only similar in that they killed off a much loved character from the franchise. The rumor that I heard (and he swore it was a true story) is that Salvatore was handpicked by George Lucas himself to kill off Chewie. And considering that Lucas would have to be consulted on it, that would actually make sense. ALL G-Canon characters have to be approved by Lucas himself in order for some other author to kill them off in a book. So far, to the best of my knowledge, the ONLY two were Crix Madine and Chewbacca.

 

Yes, the rules seem to have changed over the years from the Heir trilogy until today. Now it seems that ONLY G-Canon characters are sacred and not to be killed. I do believe it's time for LucasArts to tighten up the continuity before something like Traviss and her Kryptonian Mandalorians happens again.

 

Yes, I just called them Kryptonian. Because according to Traviss's books, they're as powerful as Superman.

[Fyurii]

Yes, the rules seem to have changed over the years from the Heir trilogy until today. Now it seems that ONLY G-Canon characters are sacred and not to be killed. I do believe it's time for LucasArts to tighten up the continuity before something like Traviss and her Kryptonian Mandalorians happens again.

 

Yes, I just called them Kryptonian. Because according to Traviss's books, they're as powerful as Superman.

 

In all honesty, they really need to stop thrusting the OT characters to the forefront so much.

Let them slide into a more background role and for newer, younger (Han & Co living to well over a hundred outside of Skywalker is too far fetched) characters to be featured in more prominent roles.

Really, Luke is the only one who can get away with it, but not for much longer.

 

I've actually seen myself picturing the OT characters in the later setting books like the end of the first ******* movie -> Zimmerframes, catheters, IV drips & wheelchairs with explosions happening all around them.

[ProfessorWalsh]

In all honesty, they really need to stop thrusting the OT characters to the forefront so much.

Let them slide into a more background role and for newer, younger (Han & Co living to well over a hundred outside of Skywalker is too far fetched) characters to be featured in more prominent roles.

Really, Luke is the only one who can get away with it, but not for much longer.

 

I've actually seen myself picturing the OT characters in the later setting books like the end of the first ******* movie -> Zimmerframes, catheters, IV drips & wheelchairs with explosions happening all around them.

 

In Star Wars due to major advances in medical technology people generally live to around 130 before they start slowing down, 150 is the new 60.

 

Also nobody is near that point in the novels. Like and company are in their 60's, which puts them roughly in an analogue of the late 30's in our society.

[Fyurii]

In Star Wars due to major advances in medical technology people generally live to around 130 before they start slowing down, 150 is the new 60.

 

Like I said... ridiculous.

 

It's ridiculous because it's a "hand wave" as to why they're all still jaunting around the galaxy fighting the next "unstoppable enemy".

I honestly equate it as being as bad as Traviss Mandos.

 

Frank Herbert got away with it in his Dune books for two reasons.

Spice, and the continued selective breeding programmes of the Bene Gesserit and then the Tyrant Leto II.

In Star Wars, The Force fills the role of the Spice, allowing Force Users to live beyond their species' natural lifespans, and not be affected by aging in the same way as non Force Users - Yoda, Dooku and Sidious are prime examples.

 

Hand wave excuses for non Force Users is just lazy fan pampering, instead of actually having things progress when it comes to characters old and new.