Jedi Shadow combatlog parses

[Boxer]

u are correct in that there are 2 armorings with different amounts of end vs will power however the armorings in the bm stalker and survivor sets are the same.

 

Sorry then.. I guess I should have assumed it'd be more likely bioware would put the different armoring in there

 

I just wish I could get the 150 force from the PvE Mystic set in PvP I just have the feeling that extra little burst in PvP would make a big difference.

[Rafe_Vidar]

If you're using balance in pvp you should definitely try for the 2pc force master set. Mind crush on shorter cd and heals you is just insane.

[Philosomanic]

If you're using balance in pvp you should definitely try for the 2pc force master set. Mind crush on shorter cd and heals you is just insane.

 

Shorter CD doesn't matter. We should never use Mind Crush without Force Strikes, and Force Strikes resets the cooldown on Mind Crush. However, you're right that the self-healing is crazy. I've had two pieces of the Force Master set since a day after hitting 50, and I love it. Combined with an average of 1-2 crits (out of 6 ticks), Mind Crush heals me for 5.5-7.5% of my max health over 6 seconds. Crazy good.

[Boxer]

u are correct in that there are 2 armorings with different amounts of end vs will power however the armorings in the bm stalker and survivor sets are the same.

 

I checked on the PTS and all Consular PvP gear has the same Armoring: 33 will, 31 end, 50 expertise.

[Rafe_Vidar]

Shorter CD doesn't matter. We should never use Mind Crush without Force Strikes, and Force Strikes resets the cooldown on Mind Crush. However, you're right that the self-healing is crazy. I've had two pieces of the Force Master set since a day after hitting 50, and I love it. Combined with an average of 1-2 crits (out of 6 ticks), Mind Crush heals me for 5.5-7.5% of my max health over 6 seconds. Crazy good.

 

I was under the impression that the set reduces the CD of Force strikes as well, was that fixed then? I know for a while it seemed to be going off a bit quicker.

[Moonheart_S]

Could it be possible to have the stats of a 31/0/10 with a survival gear?

[Caceyn]

I'm kind of interested in spec choices on an Inf. Below are my specific questions:

 

1. 2/31/8 is it better for the 2 points in Kenetic to be on technique mastery or applied force?

1.a. Depending on the answer to the above is/would it be better to spec a different way for the 2 points? What I mean is 6% AP may be better in PVP due to tanks and their gear but for OP's and FP's it may be that AP is better etc.

 

2. Is upheaval worth the benefit of the 45% proc. chance or would it be better to go with a 7/31/3 spec similar to:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601Mc0MZhGrRkhMbtzZc.1 (not saying my 7/31/3 build is the correct way to do it) Just more curious if upheaval is truly worth it in PVP and PVE.

 

3. Regarding both specs above: Is the 2 points in security breach worth it or better spent on something like battle readiness for the 30 sec. decrease on the cool down?

 

That's all for now. Of course the real test isn't against a target dummy its against RAID boses and players. That will come in time though...a dummy should allow us to figure out the math behind the damage calc's because i'm not positive that sithwarrior's calculations are 100% correct.

[Rafe_Vidar]

I'm curious. could the 7/31/3 be tested for comparison with Upheaval. I just wanted to know what the impact is for the 45% chance for Upheaval to trigger vs a permanent buff and quicker Resilience and Sprint CDs which helps get Infiltrators back into fights quicker/easier.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601McMZhGMRkhMrtzZc.1

 

just incase anyone needs to look at it. Any unwanted points in "Elusiveness" can easily be readjusted...

[Zintair]

Necroing for relevance and adding the information to the Shadow Handbook.

[Veimi]

Necroing for relevance and adding the information to the Shadow Handbook.

 

Thanks! I should point out here though that the operation training dummies were bugged in PTS according to some dev posts - they didn't dodge or parry at all. I haven't had a parsing session with the live ones yet (busy doing ALL the other cool stuff in this patch) but I'll try to get some done later this week.

[DarthOvertone]

Awesome thread! +Rep

[Veimi]

Definitely lower results on the live dummies, couple infiltration runs later averaging around 1150:

 

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3529/liveinf.png

 

So don't worry guys, I'm not that much better than everyone else

Edited April 17, 2012 by Veimi

[Payneintherear]

For those of you who didn't want to face reality, here's the very first parse of my 31/0/10 Kinetic Shadow build (since this is the traditional tank build people were requesting). I really can't stress enough how casual this parse was and that it was done without a single piece of PvE gear to boot.

 

Guess I was right in saying that Kinetic's sustained dps is higher than Infiltration's.

 

http://www.imagebanana.com/view/o11rsnni/Kineticdps.png

 

PS.: Just in case anybody was wondering. That's without adrenals or relics.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Payneintherear

[vegetji]

lol with the tank stance up xD

 

basically our class is useless, no utilities, no raid utilities, no dmg, just useless burst that will only make the tanks rage. I wont play balance, i dont like the idea to mix up melee and ranged attacks. Main spec for shadows should be infiltration. Now that Combat Log is Out, can someone tell us why our class is so weak dps wise in PVE? I wanna know it NOW. Plus the Sentinel/Marauders have so MANY utilities that i feel sick thinking of playing my shadow (full tier 3 as dps, columi and some rakata tank, full bm in pvp).

[Xinika]

This is just sad.

[Anrew]

Okay so dpsing on my shadow for PVE balance is the way to go? I'm a fresh 50 and eventually probably gonna go tank, but wanna do some dps initially.

[Veimi]

For those of you who didn't want to face reality, here's the very first parse of my 31/0/10 Kinetic Shadow build (since this is the traditional tank build people were requesting). I really can't stress enough how casual this parse was and that it was done without a single piece of PvE gear to boot.

 

Guess I was right in saying that Kinetic's sustained dps is higher than Infiltration's.

 

http://www.imagebanana.com/view/o11rsnni/Kineticdps.png

 

PS.: Just in case anybody was wondering. That's without adrenals or relics.

 

Sure you used the operations training dummy on that one? Because I've had quite different results before.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Veimi

[VulcanLogic]

Here's a 20 minute parse for balance (10/0/31) on the operations training dummy MK-5 (you'll need to use the drop down to extend the fight duration):

1149 DPS

Link to spec

Link to stats

 

Gear is 13/14 Rakata and a Columi chest with ilvl 58 modifications (essentially full Rakata), using the Rakata +380 power relic and the Rakata level Plasma Burst Device. Buffs were only Force Valor and a vendor willpower stim. No armor debuff on target. Let's break it down in terms of damage per cast time, damage per force, and effective DPS.

 

Force in Balance:

DPCT- 2206.57

DPF- 88.26

EDPS- 1471

 

Sever Force:

DPCT- 2663.11

DPF- 133.15

EDPS- 1775.41

 

Project:

DPCT- 1593.33

DPF- 40.85

EDPS- 1062

 

Double Strike

DPCT- 1626.77

DPF- 70.72

EDPS- 1084.51

 

Force Breach (estimated)*

DPCT - 2174

DPF - 108.7

EDPS - 1449.3

 

Mind Crush Proc+DoT (estimated)*

DPCT- 1822.44

DPF- N/A

EDPS- 1214.96

 

Saber Strike

DPCT- 781.22

DPF- N/A

EDPS- 520.81

 

Force Technique and Plasma Burst Device proc off pretty much everything listed above, even the DoTs and Project.

 

From the above numbers, we can determine a pretty easy priority rotation. Force in Balance on cooldown, Sever Force as soon as it expires, Force Breach as soon as it expires, Mind Crush on Proc, Double Strike (due to its much lower DPF than Project, you'll be Saber Striking less), Project only to refresh Twin Disciplines or to take advantage of Force Potency (even over Mind Crush Procs), and Saber Strike to regain force.

 

*Both Force Breach and the Mind Crush DoT are recorded as the same damaging effect in the current combat log. A separate test was run to determine the damage of Force Breach, given that Force Breach has the same 7 ticks as Sever Force. The estimated damage of Force Breach was subtracted from the Force (Crushed) total and added to the Mind Crush direct damage. If anyone wants to go through the entire 20 minute log and track the 700ish mind crush ticks for better accuracy, have at it.

Edited April 18, 2012 by VulcanLogic
Clarification on how to view the parse in question

[LessQQMorePewPew]

lol with the tank stance up xD

 

basically our class is useless, no utilities, no raid utilities, no dmg, just useless burst that will only make the tanks rage. I wont play balance, i dont like the idea to mix up melee and ranged attacks. Main spec for shadows should be infiltration. Now that Combat Log is Out, can someone tell us why our class is so weak dps wise in PVE? I wanna know it NOW. Plus the Sentinel/Marauders have so MANY utilities that i feel sick thinking of playing my shadow (full tier 3 as dps, columi and some rakata tank, full bm in pvp).

 

I have no issues keeping up DPS wise in raids as balance.

[LessQQMorePewPew]

Here's a 20 minute parse for balance (10/0/31) on the operations training dummy MK-5 (you'll need to use the drop down to extend the fight duration):

1149 DPS

Link to spec

Link to stats

 

Gear is 13/14 Rakata and a Columi chest with ilvl 58 modifications (essentially full Rakata), using the Rakata +380 power relic and the Rakata level Plasma Burst Device. Buffs were only Force Valor and a vendor willpower stim. No armor debuff on target. Let's break it down in terms of damage per cast time, damage per force, and effective DPS.

 

Force in Balance:

DPCT- 2206.57

DPF- 88.26

EDPS- 1471

 

Sever Force:

DPCT- 2663.11

DPF- 133.15

EDPS- 1775.41

 

Project:

DPCT- 1593.33

DPF- 40.85

EDPS- 1062

 

Double Strike

DPCT- 1626.77

DPF- 70.72

EDPS- 1084.51

 

Force Breach (estimated)*

DPCT - 2174

DPF - 108.7

EDPS - 1449.3

 

Mind Crush Proc+DoT (estimated)*

DPCT- 1822.44

DPF- N/A

EDPS- 1214.96

 

Saber Strike

DPCT- 781.22

DPF- N/A

EDPS- 520.81

 

Force Technique and Plasma Burst Device proc off pretty much everything listed above, even the DoTs and Project.

 

From the above numbers, we can determine a pretty easy priority rotation. Force in Balance on cooldown, Sever Force as soon as it expires, Force Breach as soon as it expires, Mind Crush on Proc, Double Strike (due to its much lower DPF than Project, you'll be Saber Striking less), Project only to refresh Twin Disciplines or to take advantage of Force Potency (even over Mind Crush Procs), and Saber Strike to regain force.

 

*Both Force Breach and the Mind Crush DoT are recorded as the same damaging effect in the current combat log. A separate test was run to determine the damage of Force Breach, given that Force Breach has the same 7 ticks as Sever Force. The estimated damage of Force Breach was subtracted from the Force (Crushed) total and added to the Mind Crush direct damage. If anyone wants to go through the entire 20 minute log and track the 700ish mind crush ticks for better accuracy, have at it.

 

I would remove Project from your rotation.

[VulcanLogic]

I would remove Project from your rotation.

 

I'm curious as to why you'd suggest that, as Twin Disciplines increases melee bonus damage by 10%, and melee damage accounts for nearly a third of balance DPS (moreso if Project is not used, about 41% of damage). Not refreshing project every 20-23 seconds (as it need not be used while refreshing FiB and the dots) will lead to a savings of about 46 force per minute, allowing two extra double strikes instead of using 2 extra saber strikes. As the difference between the two is about 550 DPS, and two of them are used, that's an extra 1100 damage in a minute, or about an 18 DPS increase at the cost of losing 10% melee bonus damage on double strike and saber strike. I've tested it without using project and I'm getting lower numbers. Unless I'm missing something, such as skill point allocation?

[Veimi]

I'm curious as to why you'd suggest that, as Twin Disciplines increases melee bonus damage by 10%, and melee damage accounts for nearly a third of balance DPS (moreso if Project is not used, about 41% of damage). Not refreshing project every 20-23 seconds (as it need not be used while refreshing FiB and the dots) will lead to a savings of about 46 force per minute, allowing two extra double strikes instead of using 2 extra saber strikes. As the difference between the two is about 550 DPS, and two of them are used, that's an extra 1100 damage in a minute, or about an 18 DPS increase at the cost of losing 10% melee bonus damage on double strike and saber strike. I've tested it without using project and I'm getting lower numbers. Unless I'm missing something, such as skill point allocation?

 

Remove Elusiveness and 1 point of Expertise in your spec, add to Infiltration Tactics. Use Shadow Strike, don't use project -> profit ~100dps more.

[VulcanLogic]

Remove Elusiveness and 1 point of Expertise in your spec, add to Infiltration Tactics. Use Shadow Strike, don't use project -> profit ~100dps more.

 

I'll give it a shot with project and without. I'm convinced on using Shadow Strike. The reason I took elusiveness was to ensure on our HM Soa attempts that I would have Resilience up every time I needed to eat a lightning ball (healing issues were larger than DPS issues), and of course, the speed boost with a reduced cooldown was useful for both getting to Soa and mind traps in ph 3. I'll have another parse up soon.

 

EDIT: Nope, not using project (at least to refresh Twin Disciplines, and only to refresh Twin Discplines) results in a net DPS loss, by about 4%. Every parse is showing 38-42% melee DPS damage. Without the 10% twin disciplines buff, which scales with the warrior/knight buff and your own Force Valor buff, 40% of your damage hits for 8% less damage. That's not going to make up the at best 20 DPS from the opportunity cost of not casting Project and activating an extra two Double Strikes per minute over the DPS of Sabre Strike.

Edited April 18, 2012 by VulcanLogic

[LessQQMorePewPew]

I'll give it a shot with project and without. I'm convinced on using Shadow Strike. The reason I took elusiveness was to ensure on our HM Soa attempts that I would have Resilience up every time I needed to eat a lightning ball (healing issues were larger than DPS issues), and of course, the speed boost with a reduced cooldown was useful for both getting to Soa and mind traps in ph 3. I'll have another parse up soon.

 

I run 7/3/31 for Shadow Strike and Elusiveness. The reason I said not to Project was for the force and because I'm shadow striking once every 10 seconds not projecting.. I will run some parse with and without project and see how it does. With the rotation I have I think Saber strike is MAYBE 5% of my DPS if that (hardly ever use it due to no force issues due to no projecting) and double strike is 20-25% of my DPS. Parsed 1350 DPS over 6 minutes.

[vegetji]

I have no issues keeping up DPS wise in raids as balance.

 

sentinel/marauder parsers show that they can do 1600/1800 dps in full rakata gear , facerolling on the keyboard. So, even if your rotation in balance is PERFECT and considering the other dps classes are all around 1400-1500 dps, you'll be always the worst "dps class" in this game (for what concern PVE environment). And don't forget the lack of utilities you have compared to the other classes.