Darnu Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 EA made a ton of mistakes with TOR but one mistake they did not make was copying or using concepts from SWG that were widely rejected by the general MMORPG population. They seem to do that a lot. Look to other games from a perspective of things they don't like and what they don't want in TOR, instead of looking at what works and why and from a perspective of what it could really do to make SWTOR better and how it could be integrated so it could work, and it seems like it's to the point where when they're brainstorming what content to include any time someone says something or comes up with an idea, if someone notices it seems similar to what's in another game it's scrapped automatically and labelled as a game-killer to avoid (unless it's something core to MMO design in their eyes in which case its easier to copy/paste rather than innovate). About SWG it's become clear (I never played it) that on paper it looks to be a pretty amazing game, but isn't interesting enough or there wasn't enough happening in it to keep a large number of people happy. That doesn't mean everything about the game should be ignored. Nothing changes the fact that when you are max level when you log in day in day out there is precious little to do. There really does need to be a variety of things to do which are repetitive and set to be a bit involved in terms of completing something as well as some PVP, FP's and ops. It's not up to me to say what these things should be, there are options more like second-life type play which could be interesting and fun, there could be rep grinds, it could be something completely different that's never been done before. The Legacy system meaning you roll alts in order to give your main extra abilities is interesting, and as far as I know original and different, but it is leaving a lot of people a little miffed that it doesn't change the fact that it's not something for their max-level character to do. Well, that's my point of view anyway - the way it is for me. And I say this because I've read interview after interview, watched many interviews and press statements etc, and they spend a lot of time talking about why they don't want things in SWTOR (especially while the game is relatively new) and the idea about a lack of resources or dev time comes up rarely. Many were deliberately omitted because they simply didn't want it. But when it comes to an answer "well what DO you want in SWTOR, what game DO you want it to be?" it seems to confuse them, rather than resulting in an answer describing a majestic vision of what the game is and could/will be. And it doesn't feel like they really understand their own answers let alone why people think they should be in the game. It seems that if you read between their lines they spent a lot of time in development before launch sitting around working out why things should not be in the game instead of using that time to work out what SHOULD be. I know officially the time spent on this was 6 months, but in reality, who knows? Put it this way - when someone puts their name to an MMORPG says it's "not very heroic" when you have a group of people beating on one boss, it's a bit of a worry. That makes me think there might have been no group content in the game until someone said very firmly that we need group content in a multi-player game and James Ohlen didn't really want any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcky Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 It will last awhile until everyone (else) gets tired of playing a beta test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) just look at the history of mmos around. this will easily stay alive for 10 years an i wouldnt doubt as a subscription based mmo, mmos only die when the providers shut the servers down and what mmos have you seen closed really apart from soe titles. Edited March 31, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehrealdealz Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Of course not! Dont you know the world is supposed to end this year? haha yah forgot about that whole 2012 thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmaveric Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 only way this game will last 10 years is if it goes free to play, because after a year or two it will probably cost them more than they will get out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) It won´t help the game that the major bad decisions were licencing an unfinished, weak engine like Hero and going for a pure themepark game instead of putting some hybrid sandbox features in. Many bells and whistles of upcoming MMOs are missing, the size of the budget does not show neither in Visual FX, nor in physical FX. These facts combined with all the missing stuff which was already in SWG (yes haters, SWG had more features, face it) does not help for a bright future. No space combat, no space exploration, no mining, no housing, no day/night change, no working economy. Then there is the server structure apocalypse of half empty servers, since they decided to completely separate players to isolated servers, instead having much bigger planets and a shard system for areas so you can meet or play with each subscriber in theory. Either the dev team gets really, really quick in catching up on current technology and revamps the engine and game concept and the server structuring, or it will look incredibly old and deserted compared to the MMOs soon to be released. Edited March 31, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Nope. A crying shame too as this was us star wars fans last hope to play an mmo set in the universe we love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazed Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Unless another big SW MMO is released then yes. Which another MMO in the SW universe is very likely at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Anarchy Online is a 10 year old mmo. Even if you tried it and hated it, it isn't hard to see that aside from it being 10 years dated, it has more depth in one of its hangnails than all mmo combined that have released over the last 3-5 years. Though its old, with old crappy snails paced mechanics, hard to look at by this point, you can tell whoever made it really cared about it at the time. I can see that in several older titles that I never even liked over many games today mmo or otherwise. When the technology wasn't the focal point of a game's innovation, the actual game part was instead. Ironically, I can almost relate it to special effects VS real immersive acting in movies. Mark Hamill isn't exactly my favorite actor, but hes Al Pacino compared to Hayden Christensen. Unless a game developer sacrafices their commercial success expectations to actually craft a game that they prioritize their vision of a quality game over their interpretation of what will appease the masses for the sake of making money, WoW will likely be the last 10 year old mmo we see. I also doubt we will ever see another mmo balloon in popularity like WoW did. We've seen astonishing improvements in all games in the terms of graphics but at the same time have watched alot of it go from novel to comic book in the sense of depth and originality. I honestly don't think a game in this genre can't get away with even chasing anything near WoW's commercial success and enjoy longevity at the same time. I think WoW got away with it by fundamentally changing their game mid stride and for a duration satisfied a wider demographic of players simultaneously ontop of mega advertising. That has had alot of game makers licking their chops thinking they can do the same thing WoW did right out of the box instead of over years. Well you can't. To make matters worse, once you've made that the purpose of your game it ends up as original as a Milli Vanilli cover band. The real punchline to that bad joke is the last couple games in this genre I've tried I've also heard things tantamount to "were not trying to be different, were just trying to do it better," as though thats a badge of honor. Over the long haul, that kind of attitude is a road to nowhere when you're in the business of selling an interactive artistic digital craft called video games. I think at this point in time other mmo developers are becoming the biggest contributor to WoW's lasting success and the reason some other older online games won't die. You can't paint a better Mona Lisa, I'm sorry but you have to paint something different. http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm46/Vlaxitov/troopermonalisa.jpg TL;DR? IMHO the next successful mmo we see in reguards to longevity will likely be niche coming from a game developer who doesen't play it safe because they have much lower commercial success expectations. Edited March 31, 2012 by Vlaxitov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmaveric Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Anarchy Online is a 10 year old mmo. Even if you tried it and hated it, it isn't hard to see that aside from it being 10 years dated, it has more depth in one of its hangnails than all mmo combined that have released over the last 3-5 years. Thought its old, with old crappy snails paced mechanics, hard to look at by this point, you can tell whoever made it really cared about it at the time. I can see that in several older titles that I never even liked over many games today mmo or otherwise. When the technology wasn't the focal point of a game's innovation, the actual game part was instead. Ironically, I can almost relate it to special effects VS real immersive acting in movies. Mark Hamill isn't exactly my favorite actor, but hes Al Pacino compared to Hayden Christensen. Unless a game developer sacrafices their commercial success expectations to actually craft a game that they prioritize their vision of a quality game over their interpretation of what will appease the masses for the sake of making money, WoW will likely be the last 10 year old mmo we see. I also doubt we will ever see another mmo balloon in popularity like WoW did. We've seen astonishing improvements in all games in the terms of graphics but at the same time have watched alot of it go from novel to comic book in the sense of depth and originality. I honestly don't think a game in this genre can't get away with even chasing anything near WoW's commercial success and enjoy longevity at the same time. I think WoW got away with it by fundamentally changing their game mid stride and for a duration satisfied a wider demographic of players simultaneously ontop of mega advertising. That has had alot of game makers licking their chops thinking they can do the same thing WoW did right out of the box instead of over years. Well you can't. To make matters worse, once you've made that the purpose of your game it ends up as original as a Milli Vanilli cover band. The real punchline to that bad joke is the last couple games in this genre I've tried I've also heard things tantamount to "were not trying to be different, were just trying to do it better," as though thats a badge of honor. Over the long haul, that kind of attitude is a road to nowhere when you're in the business of selling an interactive artistic digital craft called video games. I think at this point in time other mmo developers are becoming the biggest contributor to WoW's lasting success and the reason some other older online games won't die. You can't paint a better Mona Lisa, I'm sorry but you have to paint something different. http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm46/Vlaxitov/troopermonalisa.jpg TL;DR? IMHO the next successful mmo we see in reguards to longevity will likely be niche coming from a game developer who doesen't play it safe because they have much lower commercial success expectations. EVE Online with the new dust 514 PS3 game and the new grafx EVE will grow even more. CCP actually asks their player base what they want. Not to mention has a council of players voted in by players to keep CCP on track. (depending on who gets in there they tend to only hear about one area of the game. nul sec ect for people who know what I'm talking about) EVE has been around for 9 years all ready, going on 10 this next year. I'ts because they care about their dedicated player base and not a hand full of cash like LA, BW, and EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 EVE Online with the new dust 514 PS3 game and the new grafx EVE will grow even more. CCP actually asks their player base what they want. Not to mention has a council of players voted in by players to keep CCP on track. (depending on who gets in there they tend to only hear about one area of the game. nul sec ect for people who know what I'm talking about) EVE has been around for 9 years all ready, going on 10 this next year. I'ts because they care about their dedicated player base and not a hand full of cash like LA, BW, and EA. EvE is a good example of a game with a very satisfying amount of depth to the point that it overwhelms some. I couldn't get past the leveling via real time waiting rather than it being a playtime investment which inevitably lead to the game not really being for me. I would argue that they've stayed true to their plan even knowing that fundamentaly changing things like what I mentioned my problem was with the game might have lead to some short term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmaveric Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 EvE is a good example of a game with a very satisfying amount of depth to the point that it overwhelms some. I couldn't get past the leveling via real time waiting rather than it being a playtime investment which inevitably lead to the game not really being for me. I would argue that they've stayed true to their plan even knowing that fundamentaly changing things like what I mentioned my problem was with the game might have lead to some short term success. leveling via real time waiting was kinda meh to me but at the same time you not only level your character with real time but you level your skills on how to play in that time as well, thats what got me to stay. You don't just level your character you level your knowledge irl about the game as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Anarchy Online is a 10 year old mmo. Even if you tried it and hated it, it isn't hard to see that aside from it being 10 years dated, it has more depth in one of its hangnails than all mmo combined that have released over the last 3-5 years. Though its old, with old crappy snails paced mechanics, hard to look at by this point, you can tell whoever made it really cared about it at the time. I can see that in several older titles that I never even liked over many games today mmo or otherwise. When the technology wasn't the focal point of a game's innovation, the actual game part was instead. Ironically, I can almost relate it to special effects VS real immersive acting in movies. Mark Hamill isn't exactly my favorite actor, but hes Al Pacino compared to Hayden Christensen. Unless a game developer sacrafices their commercial success expectations to actually craft a game that they prioritize their vision of a quality game over their interpretation of what will appease the masses for the sake of making money, WoW will likely be the last 10 year old mmo we see. I also doubt we will ever see another mmo balloon in popularity like WoW did. We've seen astonishing improvements in all games in the terms of graphics but at the same time have watched alot of it go from novel to comic book in the sense of depth and originality. I honestly don't think a game in this genre can't get away with even chasing anything near WoW's commercial success and enjoy longevity at the same time. I think WoW got away with it by fundamentally changing their game mid stride and for a duration satisfied a wider demographic of players simultaneously ontop of mega advertising. That has had alot of game makers licking their chops thinking they can do the same thing WoW did right out of the box instead of over years. Well you can't. To make matters worse, once you've made that the purpose of your game it ends up as original as a Milli Vanilli cover band. The real punchline to that bad joke is the last couple games in this genre I've tried I've also heard things tantamount to "were not trying to be different, were just trying to do it better," as though thats a badge of honor. Over the long haul, that kind of attitude is a road to nowhere when you're in the business of selling an interactive artistic digital craft called video games. I think at this point in time other mmo developers are becoming the biggest contributor to WoW's lasting success and the reason some other older online games won't die. You can't paint a better Mona Lisa, I'm sorry but you have to paint something different. http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm46/Vlaxitov/troopermonalisa.jpg TL;DR? IMHO the next successful mmo we see in reguards to longevity will likely be niche coming from a game developer who doesen't play it safe because they have much lower commercial success expectations. ^^ couldn´t agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCarnage Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 EvE is a good example of a game with a very satisfying amount of depth to the point that it overwhelms some. I couldn't get past the leveling via real time waiting rather than it being a playtime investment which inevitably lead to the game not really being for me. I would argue that they've stayed true to their plan even knowing that fundamentaly changing things like what I mentioned my problem was with the game might have lead to some short term success. i tired eve but combat broed me out fo teh gate, jsut click one someone and off you go, very little control or optoins, but if i hear tehy add more to it then i might give it another try. that was my only big issues with eve. but that a really big one for me i hate jsut auto attacking thigns to death lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princemjt Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) tacos Edited April 12, 2012 by princemjt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lankester_merrin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 IMHO the next successful mmo we see in reguards to longevity will likely be niche coming from a game developer who doesen't play it safe because they have much lower commercial success expectations. totally agree and my hope is that http://www.thesecretworld.com/ will be that game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 just look at the history of mmos around. this will easily stay alive for 10 years an i wouldnt doubt as a subscription based mmo, mmos only die when the providers shut the servers down and what mmos have you seen closed really apart from soe titles. There's been a few now. Although having a licence adds another dimension, both for longevity and being chopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ch_Zero Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The Dark side clouds everything impossible to see the future is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 If there is anything keeping that game from competing with upcoming MMOs it's the clunky engine. Why couldn't they simply get the Cryengine or Unreal3 engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngamok Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 In my opinion. This game will be free to play at best in 5yrs if they do not do a massive overhall . With the legitimate effort being made by other mmo companies this year to make a game that will last 10yrs its shocking that this game has not come out with the 1.2 patch yet. For them to say this game will last 10 years is interesting. I hope they live up to the hype. Who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCarnage Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 If there is anything keeping that game from competing with upcoming MMOs it's the clunky engine. Why couldn't they simply get the Cryengine or Unreal3 engine? maybe at the time those did not meet the genraly ideas and requirements tehy lookign for, hence the picked the hero and disided to mode it becuase they like it's tools set. just my theory however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarbacca Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 This is the newest MMo out right now. Its about maybe a little over 3 1/2 months and you expect mass content? Wow. And then compare it to already established games. You guys act like its been out over a year... Lol, I was making a joke, genius. I love this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 If there is anything keeping that game from competing with upcoming MMOs it's the clunky engine. Why couldn't they simply get the Cryengine or Unreal3 engine? You know engines can be changed right? Just because an MMO uses one engine does not mean they can't change it down the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Funny how many people are like 'this game'll be a failure and go f2p!' then quote the reasoning being 'cuz GW2 is coming.' If f2p is what you consider a failure.... maybe you should reconsider using GW2 as your 'the next wow killer!' back up no? Considering it's a game so poorly made they can't even launch it p2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooks_THX Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Funny how many people are like 'this game'll be a failure and go f2p!' then quote the reasoning being 'cuz GW2 is coming.' If f2p is what you consider a failure.... maybe you should reconsider using GW2 as your 'the next wow killer!' back up no? Considering it's a game so poorly made they can't even launch it p2p. The only stupid ones are the people that think F2P automatically = bad. There are a lot of high quality F2P games...and F2p is the future of the genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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