Why were Sorcerers ever considered OP?

[FarizAA]

Dont know which WZ your playing but theres generally at minimum 3 a side in most WZ i have been in recently.

 

Not every jedi knight icon you see after game ends in sentinel. At least half of them is guardians.

 

Just check how many mara/sent is there out of 8 players at start of wz for next 20 WZ you will play, just out of curiosity.

[Scav]

The the good Lord has said, "QQ enough and ya shall receive." BW has answered.

[HyperThomas]

Sorc never needed a nerf... simple as that.

[Adzzy]

That button is a godsend to the marauder class face the facts we die alot and is only used in a emergency good day sir:)

 

assassins don't die a lot, sorcs not quite as good, but can stop themselves dying, and heck guardians and both bounty hunter classes (short of heal spec bh energy shield) don't really have any escape at all, if more than one person wants them dead, short of an overwhelming gear advantage, those 2 classes are going to die, but not dying doesn't actually mean all that much when half the warzones let you respawn and return within 15 seconds (*cough* civil war and void star attack), if you're not an actual healing spec of a given class, it takes you that long to heal yourself back up.

 

The game simply doesn't have an arathi basin or the like where it can take 45 seconds and easily be cut off from reinforcing a node.

 

The advantage marauders have, similar to paladins in wow, is the ability to not die for long enough for others to get back, you're about to die, camo+undying rage is 10 seconds, throw in the extra 8 seconds as long as you hit the guys capping and that's the time to reinforce a side node of civil war if your entire team was dead +6.

 

It's just this absurd notion that marauders have the highest skill cap, yet there's no real explanation of why that is, what do they actually have or do that requires any sort of skill cap? I've never actually heard of any game calling it's most one dimensional class "the highest skill cap" before, unless we're talking the challenge of playing a class that's really heavily gear reliant without that gear.

[Spikeskcd]

And you just nailed the other false stereotype that grew up along w/ Sorc.

 

Because let's be honest, Tracer/Grav Merc/Commandos are the easiest thing in this game to solo, hands down.

 

LOL! are you being sarcastic?

 

I have seen many a situation where me and one other go after a commando. With the heavy armor and their healing ability I would shoot the #$%@ out of them and they would heal right up. Perhaps it was them dodging behind barriers delaying our DPS, but once what had to be a full BM commando buffed by a sage came waking into the middle turret alone... Took the entire team what seemed like forever to take him down. Wish I had it on video, it was quite the sight.

 

P.S. Can we really still call these classes mirror classes any more? They are getting nerfed and buffed differently.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Spikeskcd

[Adzzy]

healing commandos don't use grav rounds...if they are a grav spammer, let them cast their heal, the heat/ammo cost and heal output is so untenable outside heal spec, it's sort of sad. Edited March 28, 2012 by Adzzy

[Varicite]

Now compare taht to say a sniper. Sorc will do the same or more overall damage during a match. But a sorc will also bring the aformentioned abilitites. But a sniper can only dps when stationary, cannot cary the ball, cannot heal and has no group utility, cannot buff other players.

 

But I think the sith stealth shadow tank is more OP atm. (and the Imperial counterpart)

 

Snipers have incredible burst while stationary, while Sorcs do not. Same w/ Mercs. So Sorcs have more utility.

 

Seems fair enough.

[Varicite]

LOL! are you being sarcastic?

 

I have seen many a situation where me and one other go after a commando. With the heavy armor and their healing ability I would shoot the #$%@ out of them and they would heal right up. Perhaps it was them dodging behind barriers delaying our DPS, but once what had to be a full BM commando buffed by a sage came waking into the middle turret alone... Took the entire team what seemed like forever to take him down. Wish I had it on video, it was quite the sight.

 

P.S. Can we really still call these classes mirror classes any more? They are getting nerfed and buffed differently.

 

You are talking about a HEALING Commando (Combat Medic), when I was obviously talking about Gunnery (Grav Round, you know, like it says in the post you quoted).

 

I'm curious if you know the difference.

 

Also, they're getting nerfed/buffed differently due to animation differences in the mirrors which currently favors the Empire side. The different nerf/buffs are to actually make them mirrors, which is the opposite of what you seem to think.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Varicite

[da_krall]

Snipers have incredible burst while stationary, while Sorcs do not. Same w/ Mercs. So Sorcs have more utility.

 

Seems fair enough.

 

Go no, list the utility difference between a sniper and a sorc...they are very similar in the amount they get.

 

Ill agree merc have less, though it isnt by very much and all classes will fill a resolve bar before they have used up their CCs

 

Sorc in WZ are a thing of the past other than someone running one for kicks or because they like things really hard.

Edited March 28, 2012 by da_krall

[ComeAndSee]

I don't think Sorc's are overpowered at all. They're flimsy and are about as dangerous as any other DPS when they're left alone.

[deags]

Never ending force pool, this is why they are considered OP. I do think force regen needs a change (though not to the level the PTS has it at) but this is the only thing i believe needs changing, They amount Sorcs are dealing out both in heals and Damage isn't overpowered so with a small change to force regen i think it will bring the class into line with other classes to the same level of management needed to play the class well. Edited March 28, 2012 by deags

[Varicite]

Go no, list the utility difference between a sniper and a sorc...they are very similar in the amount they get.

 

Ill agree merc have less, though it isnt by very much and all classes will fill a resolve bar before they have used up their CCs

 

Sorc in WZ are a thing of the past other than someone running one for kicks or because they like things really hard.

 

A Sorc's utility is far more mobile, which is more valuable in a PvP environment (and arguably in most PvE environments as well).

 

I know that Snipers also receive a decent amount of utility, but in practice, a Sorc's utility tends to outshine them in WZs, especially a place like Huttball. I honestly think Static Barrier, Force Speed, and Extricate outclass most of the utility that a Sniper can bring in comparison, since the other "utility" comes in the way of knockbacks, snares, and roots which hybrid Sorcs also provide.

 

I think it's fair enough to say that they both bring a good variety, however the difference is that a Sniper is immobile and brings high burst, whereas a Sorc brings heals and high mobility.

 

Still sounds fair to me.

[L-RANDLE]

This isn't WOW.

 

Sorc's are considered OP because most of their damage ignores armor etc so they can do the same kind of damage to all targets. The hybrid spec was the worst, where chain lightning would give your next cast insta, so you could throw out some pretty quick DPS, with Death Field getting some hefty crits.

 

Incorrect. When you look at most attacks, they are kinetic damage which is mitigated by armor rating. So hitting a heavy armor is no where near hitting a light armor..

[Spero-Mcgee]

No they arent, instead of saying 'in the hands of a player that understands.....' think more about that classes facing off against each other when played by the same player and how he would own himself when playing certain classes against other classes. There are classes that as vastly superior to others.

 

Saying its a group game and you can play a role is stupid. i f one group is full of the OP calsses and the other has 50% weak classes it doesnt matter how well you play. If someone can kill you in 6 seconds because you have no defensive CDs when they have defensive CDs that make them imortal for 6 seconds....well im sure you can work out the outcome. Saying this game is group balanced is the same as saying 'we couldnt be bothered/didnt know how to balance it and so claim its group balanced'

 

Then I guess, me being the only scoundrel healer, keeping my team alive and they keeping the imps of my back eventually leading to a win in alderaan or whatever is a fluke? ;o

Or me as a vanguard stalling 2 imps at the first doors while them wanting to go and defend the 2nd doors is pointless? I've seen countless of times were a fellow sent was holding off 2 imps but was close to dying and I manage to save him in time.

In a team based game, even with so called ''weak classes"" working together makes you a strong group. Do some classes have more utility? Yes they do, doesn't mean they always use them or know when to use them.

When it comes to defending turrets in alderaan 1 person can hold off a small group long enough for his team to come in and help.

 

And this 6 sec, I assume thats the force amo of a sent? I have heard of it from a fellow guildie, from what I heard you don't lose HP, but can you still get cced, stunned or rooted?

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, but people seriously have to work more with their role. I'm really curious to see how scoundrel healing is going to be in 1.2.

If I'm already doing this fine(great),it makes me wonder how some groups even manage without my healing.

 

It really boggles my mind when my peers decide to mvp the top dps, but without my healing not him or any of them would have gotten the chance to do well, because them NOT dying does make a huge difference in the end.

Thankfully I don't mind that much because 4 medals (even though with the new system, credit kills through I get more) is enough and that gets me the valor and coms I want/need. The wins though are more important.

I do feel bad for any fellow healing sages/commandos but the changes to their healing has already been explained why.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Spero-Mcgee

[Altruismo]

Go no, list the utility difference between a sniper and a sorc...they are very similar in the amount they get.

 

On paper, when you ignore resource management, cooldowns, shot travel time, and mobility, the sniper does have "very similar" utility, in that it has less, but not none.

In the grand scheme of things, "not none" is "very similar" to "boatloads", right?

Edited March 28, 2012 by Altruismo