Commando Life Beyond 1.2 (keep it optimistic)

[ImariKurumi]

When you say that, then whats the purpose of putting a DEDICATED heal spec talent tree? Defeats the purpose doesnt it?

 

If they totally remove the heal tree talents and just weave in a few heal talents into other dps talent trees, then i understand that we're offheals.

 

But we have a friggin FULLY DEDICATED HEALING SPEC IN OUR TALENT TREE!!!!

Edited March 29, 2012 by ImariKurumi

[oaceen]

I don't really see any significant change to gunnery commandos. Slight decrease in survivability and a shift of some damage from grav round to full auto. PVE I probably won't notice a difference, PVP I will be a little less bursty since grav-spam won't be as effective.

 

i see it as more bursty with the increased damage to demo round and full auto

 

less sustained. unless of course you consider grav round burst damage (and well i guess i wouldn't necessarily disagree with you completely on that point....)

[Womacker]

best case: 1.3 removes nerfs and gives us an "im sorry we made this game un-fun" buff....

 

but that likely wont happen. Most likely, commandos and troopers will leave in droves, until they finally buff us again, so much as a matter of fact, that troopers will come back.....

 

 

 

but thats still optimistic

[Niconogood]

The only thing that I see would balance commando out after 1.2 is if they gave us a vanish and force speed. The main reason we are already everyones favorite target is that we have no getaway, ridiculously easy to shut down and are a certain kill for everyone that gets close.

 

Its like if you were a hungry lion on the savannah, who would you rather use your energy trying to kill?

 

1. A bird that could easily leap up in the air and vanish

2. A superfast gazelle that could just leg out of your reach in 2 seconds

3. Another lion

4. A fat, chubby pig with a broken leg

Edited March 29, 2012 by Niconogood

[Xuco]

Ya.

 

Overreaction at BEST.

 

Bioware is doing a good job at balancing. Trust them.

 

I seen so many 400k+ damage commando grav round/tracer spammers.

 

try playing a GS/sniper in fatality/sharpshooter spec and you'll see exactly how hard it should be to produce 400k+ in a WZ. It ain't a walk in the park I'll tell you. And thats on a dedicated DPS AC.

 

you really didn't think a nerf was coming?

 

duh.

 

If a Commando in your game is getting 400k+ damage with only Grav Round.... Your team is not playing well at all. A Commando can be a devastating force if allowed to stand off to the side and free cast. If you hassle them with interrupts and knockbacks. You cut their damage down a lot.

 

I can break 400k in a WZ if left be. But I guarantee you I am using more than just Grav Round. Grav Round is not our strongest attack. It is just on the shortest cooldown. In the upcoming patch, I feel I will be getting stonger and not weaker. Grav Round loses 10% but the highest damage attack (Demo Round) is getting buffed 10%. Along with Full Auto getting Curtain of Fire procs more often, it will more than compensate for the nerf to Grav.

 

1 persistent Marauder can make a Commando a non-factor. Good teams know to kill healers and hassle Commandos.

[Nytak]

I'm hoping that more CoF procs and the additional burst to Demo round will keep my current playstyle viable. Won't know until 1.2 hits though. If it's bad, I'll either revive my guardian or finish my sage (guardian got buffed and I already have a new spec for sage/balance that doesn't get hit by the nerfs).

 

However I'm gonna give my gunnery commando a fair shot post 1.2 first...

[lazraven]

I can only tell you that since Nightmare mode is very hard for me - ammo wise, I simply can't imagine keeping the Ops up after the nerf. I can't.

I am full Rakata, and I have 5 years of experience in healing... and I am telling you - I will struggle. It's going to be horrible. Sure, we have some undergeared people, but I guess this is yet another game that ruins my class PVE wise for the sake of PVP. Good times...

And then the devs realise that and add Dual Spec. It always comes to this. A lazy fix.

 

 

Obviously, I'll give it a shot, check if what I fear is true, but I am still not going to re-sub.

Not because of the nerf, althought it was the straw that broke the camel's back completely.

 

No class deserves so many nerfs at once. The most OP class didn't get that many (Imperial Agent/Smuggler) and we aren't anywhere near as OP. We are good, but we don't deserve to be ruined like this.

 

So... you believe that the weakest class in the game is OP. You sir have no clue what you are talking about.

 

That five years of healing experience has been completely invalidated.

[stendarrs]

Personally, I just want some survivability. There is no reason whatsoever for a mellee class character to think twice about attacking a dps commando. He/she knows that we can't do anything without help from a teammate and it's pretty much a guaranteed kill assuming generally equal gear/skill. Well, actually, forget the equal skill part because you could have a highly skilled commando get stomped by a drunk halfwit saber-wielder. Basically replace blitz with something that will give me a chance to survive/escape mellee attackers and I'm happy. By the way, I was only addressing pvp.

[Aaoogaa]

I will retire my CM. I will level a scoundrel for PVP healing. Commando has no place in rated warzones without an interrupt. Combat med will not have the longevity to maintain heals in rated war zones. Nerfing both regen and efficiency was way overboard.

 

edit-that was optimistic by the way since I have decided not to cancel and leave the game.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Aaoogaa

[lazraven]

I will retire my CM. I will level a scoundrel for PVP healing. Commando has no place in rated warzones without an interrupt. Combat med will not have the longevity to maintain heals in rated war zones. Nerfing both regen and efficiency was way overboard.

 

edit-that was optimistic by the way since I have decided not to cancel and leave the game.

 

If you do...

 

icanhasurstuff?

[Gyronamics]

If you do...

 

icanhasurstuff?

 

 

You'd have to have his account to get all his bound gear

[Nitromonger]

I'm probably going to draw the ire of a few with this but oh well, it is what it is. I think this change will only affect the "flavor of the week" player who goes with the easy class to play. I have both a commando and a mercenary at level 50 and I find the GR/TM spam to be excessively easy. I choose assult/pyro due to mobility, and I very rarely find people doing more damage in WZs than I do.

 

Since we don't have combat logs yet, the best PvE comparison I can use the the Infernal Council fight in EV. I'm consistently the first DPS class done with their mob, so while it may lack the burst of gunnery, the constant pressure you can apply does just as much over the length of the fights.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Nitromonger

[Nytak]

I'm probably going to draw the ire of a few with this but oh well, it is what it is. I think this change will only affect the "flavor of the week" player who goes with the easy class to play. I have both a commando and a mercenary at level 50 and I find the GR/TM spam to be excessively easy. I choose assult/pyro due to mobility, and I very rarely find people doing more damage in WZs than I do.

 

Since we don't have combat logs yet, the best PvE comparison I can use the the Infernal Council fight in EV. I'm consistently the first DPS class done with their mob, so while it may lack the burst of gunnery, the constant pressure you can apply does just as much over the length of the fights.

 

With the dmg reduction in the first three tiers of gunnery and the boost in dmg from Demo round and more CoF procs in the upper two tiers, combined with the reduced ammo efficiency of CM heals, these changes seem to be focused at the hybrid builds. It is unfortunate though that the bleed-over from the changes is hitting PVE healers the hardest.

[RuQu]

Or, alternately, you could listen to Georg Zoeller...

 

PTS has been out for a while, and we now have a pretty good picture and so far have seen absolutely no sign of any of the things he said.

 

None.

 

Nada.

 

Zilch.

 

Although we did find that they nerfed itemization on current gear to make room for upgrades on new gear. Does that help?

 

And currently the Scoundrel/Operative AoE looks to have a 3.66% increase (theory and testing agree) instead of the 10% the patch notes claim.

 

The Q&A also said they would be making further adjustments to the healing nerfs. They did...they slightly reduced the Sage nerf and let us train Tech Override at level 46.

 

Ummm....optimism...

 

I continue to test and assume despite evidence to the contrary that BW will increase transparency and actually listen to feedback. Maybe even make healing interesting and up to modern standards. I think that's a substantial amount of optimism.

 

Optimistic "hope": They revert the healer nerfs and release 1.2 without them with a statement that all that great new content didn't need to be held back while they reassess healing balance. Then they interact and get proper feedback from the community on how to approach their healing goals while making healing fun, and introduce those changes in 1.2.X patches (changes, not nerfs, because decreased throughput (nerf) offset by more interesting gameplay (buff) is a fair trade in my opinion, even if the pure numbers are negative).

[sensiblepoast]

I will retire my CM. I will level a scoundrel for PVP healing. Commando has no place in rated warzones

 

With or without interrupt, it doesn't matter. It's worse than a dps sage in terms of dps+utility, and it's worse than a sniper in terms of dps+survival+versatility.

Edited April 3, 2012 by sensiblepoast

[Soltrooper]

Optimistic "hope": They revert the healer nerfs and release 1.2 without them with a statement that all that great new content didn't need to be held back while they reassess healing balance. Then they interact and get proper feedback from the community on how to approach their healing goals while making healing fun, and introduce those changes in 1.2.X patches (changes, not nerfs, because decreased throughput (nerf) offset by more interesting gameplay (buff) is a fair trade in my opinion, even if the pure numbers are negative).

 

This... it's the only hope I see. Put the Scoundrel buffs in, leave the others as is, and try to get the healing right with the release on Nightmare Mode which is being delayed. What's the point of new content if play is less engaging.

[Comieb]

My wish list... well its fairly simple.

 

1) Charged bolts gets a make over. So that it sounds and looks more like the gunslinger Charged burst (more meatier sounds more impressive graphic)

 

2) Grav round gets a make over. More impressive particle acceleration looking and a more meatier sound - no more blue stream of crap

 

3) High Impact bolt gets a make over. Currently it sounds like one of the devs brought their kid to work and the kid sat on a ketchup bottle and went "haha that would be a funny noise for a weapon shooting" and voila we got a whimpy looking splooge sounding attack.

Needs to sound beefy look like its going to ruin your day and make troopers feel like the dude in the hope trailer, Because you know... if he picked up a heavy weapon and it fired those shots hed probably throw down the weapon in disgust and just start throwing rocks.

 

4) Removal of green healer beam of "ooh lookit me healing come push my sheet in" make it look more like the BH version

 

5) colour crystals change the colour of your attacks.

 

 

Yes mainly aesthetics, but its amazing how these little things make you enjoy the class more.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Comieb

[oaceen]

your last wish is coming true at least.

 

 

i do like charged bolts, but i agree with everything else for the most part though.

[AzKnc]

Ya.

 

Overreaction at BEST.

 

Bioware is doing a good job at balancing. Trust them.

 

I seen so many 400k+ damage commando grav round/tracer spammers.

 

try playing a GS/sniper in fatality/sharpshooter spec and you'll see exactly how hard it should be to produce 400k+ in a WZ. It ain't a walk in the park I'll tell you. And thats on a dedicated DPS AC.

 

you really didn't think a nerf was coming?

 

duh.

 

what is this i don't even...

 

Bioware is doing a terrible job with the game alltogether, not just pvp balance. I most definitely do NOT trust them.

 

Any gs/sniper with at least 1 finger on each hand will reach 400k in a wz.

[Musezy]

No class deserves so many nerfs at once.

^^^ This!

 

I really, really, really, dislike it when developers make so many negative changes to a class all at once. Knee-jerk reactions like this are usually over-kill, and then the devs are always reluctant to admit they made a huge mistake afterward. Ultimately, they will refuse to reverse or tone down some of the nerfs because it will make them look incompetent.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Musezy

[Warkyd]

Ya.

 

Overreaction at BEST.

 

Bioware is doing a good job at balancing. Trust them.

 

I seen so many 400k+ damage commando grav round/tracer spammers.

 

try playing a GS/sniper in fatality/sharpshooter spec and you'll see exactly how hard it should be to produce 400k+ in a WZ. It ain't a walk in the park I'll tell you. And thats on a dedicated DPS AC.

 

you really didn't think a nerf was coming?

 

duh.

 

Tracer/Grav round spammers hit 400k because they use aoe. You dont do 400k single target damage unless youre a marauder/sent with heals. Commandos/Mercs simply dont have the class mechanic regen to make this possible.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Warkyd

[Gabe_Grinstead]

As much as I hate the nerfs, I'll still likely be playing my commando. My new spec is likely going to be

 

this 31/10 point build

 

However, asside from bacta infusion, I am not sure anything in the healer tree is worth much past the first two tiers. Spending 3 points on Field Triage to save 1 ammo every 9 seconds (non CSC) at most? Seems pretty piddly for an entire 3 points.

 

Trauma Probe seems like a wasted point, but being that you need to put 31 points into the tree to get bacta infusion, there is not much to choose from.

 

CSC can really only be used to its full potential when recharge cells is up. I suppose you could pop it and hold back artificially. Sort of takes the fun out of it.

 

Preventative medicine is decent, essentially makes the avanced probe do about the same healing as the regular probe if accounting for the HoT ticks.

 

Armor Screen sounds more powerful than it really is. It adds a mere 2% in most cases to damage reduction. Pretty weak overall, but not much else to choose from.

 

Kolto Residue - Seriously? 3%? That is a waste of 2 talent points. It was questionable when it was 5%, but now at 3% it is an even easier decision to skip.

 

Again, these nerfs totally suck. But, I am determined to play through it. I, might, however switch to a DPS spec if I find that healing has lost its fun. If I am going to hammer shot 50% of the fight, then I might just play a different class. Hammershot wouldn't be so bad if you there was a 3 second version of it or something. Hammering the key over and over is really lame and tiring. It is mindless.

 

The Combat Medic Tree is really crappy. We have a great 31 point talent (my opinion, I think it is great) and most of the the items are just fillers for it. I suppose that could be said for most trees, though. So many 'filler' trees just to get to the next tier.

 

Asside from the lack of Bactca Infusion, I think the hybrid spec might be the strongest spec yet.

 

I'd like to remove all Alacrity from my current build and gear, but the enhancements don't exist for what I do want to stack. I want power, crit and surge in that order, but it sure seems like surge, crit and power is what it ends up being. I was looking everywhere for a power + crit enhancement, but I cannot find one. Power seems to be linked to surge or alacrity, IIRC Maybe I havn't looked hard enough. With surge hitting some severe DR at 200, I am not sure how to proceed as I don't want to end up with 400 surge when I would love to shift 200 of those points into power and crit.

 

Admittingly, I am not sure what to expect with 1.2, but it doesn't take much to realize I just got nerfed, heavily, and the most annoying part was screwing up my ammo rotation.

 

It... Is... Just... A... Game. But I do think it is ok to be upset about these changes.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Gabe_Grinstead

[Slowness]

i think that commando is only sub-par at lower levels. QUOTE]

 

As I was lv'ing up I ran as a dps gunnary, and I had very few problems with survivability. Most things (aside form elites) died after 3 grav's, 1 demo and a full auto and sometimes a few hammer shots.

 

At the higher levels, i can give a lot of other classes a whooping. QUOTE]

 

My guild was in need of another healer, so I went healer and my survivability dropped by ~30% is PvE and ~50 in PvP, granted that maybe (in PvP) other players are targeting me because I am a healer but I am dieing much faster and much more often than when i was lv'ing.

 

I am almost 100% up the left heal as a 38 commando, I usually am 3-1 KDR and have around 20-35ish kills per round. I Do not have a problem doing OK damage at 38, right in line or higher than people around me on WZ. Not sure how u play your Commando but I have found ways to avoid a ton of damage and still get a lot of kills. Just got out of a WZ my team won a close match and I still had 19-1 and that is entering battle, no team just me spamming heals on myself while spamming hammershot+FA

[anstalt]

I currently don't have any alts, but I'm planning on rolling a commando healer as soon as 1.2 hits.

 

I haven't rolled one previously as I can't settle on a species, so will be buying pureblood sith and rolling one as my commando.

 

I'm rolling commando healer mainly for PvP. As a shadow, BH healers are the ones I struggle with most, simply because they have heavy armour so mitigate more (or, seem to anyways). With all the nerfs incoming, it seems like a good time to roll one too. TOR is pretty balanced, but usually when I see nerfs or people calling a class underpowered, its because its harder to play. Am hoping the same will be true of commando healing so that when i do well, it will be more satisfying!

[RuQu]

I currently don't have any alts, but I'm planning on rolling a commando healer as soon as 1.2 hits.

 

I haven't rolled one previously as I can't settle on a species, so will be buying pureblood sith and rolling one as my commando.

 

I'm rolling commando healer mainly for PvP. As a shadow, BH healers are the ones I struggle with most, simply because they have heavy armour so mitigate more (or, seem to anyways). With all the nerfs incoming, it seems like a good time to roll one too. TOR is pretty balanced, but usually when I see nerfs or people calling a class underpowered, its because its harder to play. Am hoping the same will be true of commando healing so that when i do well, it will be more satisfying!

 

I'm not saying not to roll one...but do your research first.

 

You will see that many people aren't complaining that it will be "harder."

 

Of course, you first need to define "harder."

 

To me, "harder" means that it takes skill to do well. To someone else, it might just mean "the odds of success are low."

 

The changes coming in 1.2 make the class easier to play (fewer options, fewer decisions, less variability in what the player will do, smaller numerical variation between good and bad performance), but they also decrease your throughput and therefore make the odds of success lower.

 

If that's how you personally define "harder," then this may be just the challenge you are looking for, but you won't have much grounds for patting yourself on the back as your performance will be within a few percent or so of anyone in the same gear regardless of skill.