No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[Feluraunt]

I apologize for posting and not reading all 50 pages of this thread. I may say things that have already been said, or... I might say things that will incur a flame... My only intent was to say what I feel about the topic of the original concept of the thread with my flare of the dramatic and sometimes obsolete ramblings.

 

To start with, I want to say I like SWTOR as a game... or maybe better stated is that I want to like it as a game, I just find it very incomplete in many different aspects (IE: User Interface Customization, Guild System, Support Ticket System, Crafting System, and Looking for Group to just name a few). Yes, yes… I know some of these things are coming, but I why are we having to wait?

 

With the number of MMO games released over the last decade, I feel that SWTOR is behind the times in many of the little things that make a game successful somewhat... fulfilling. I want to stay positive with this thread though, but it feels like no one in development paid any attention to other MMO games that have been created (successful or failures), or perhaps this game was being developed before the concepts of guild banks, customized user interfaces, looking for group features, and so forth. I have played many of these games (EverQuest , EverQuest II, Lineage II, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings, Rift, Anarchy Online, EVE, Vanguard… to name a few too many) and yes, they all had growing pains… bugs… incompleteness. I just feel that SWTOR has delivered just enough to generate interest but not enough to be a complete system. I am not trying to make a comparison to a specific game, but perhaps the need of a MMO game for today’s market in general.

 

I now have 8 characters in SWTOR on one server, all but one is in the high 30’s and I am running out of options and patients. Perhaps I am on an unpopulated server (Kath Hound), but I find it near impossible to get into Flashpoints, or even to run Heroics on any planets without waiting (actually praying), pleading, begging, and offering a pile of credits and yet it still takes several hours to do one. About the only flashpoint I see not needing a LFG for is the first one (Republic or Empire), seems to be plenty of people looking for that one on the fleet. This general chat LFG wasn’t so bad when the game was first released, there were a ton of people on, but now I see less than 50 people on the fleet at peak times. Usually 20 to 25 and on some planets less than 4 people… not even enough to make a group for a heroic 4. Yeah, I know you can use companions… but that is not the point being made. MMO count doesn’t include companions, so perhaps the easy fix here is to take one of the M’s out of MMO.

 

So, I guess in conclusion I just find it somewhat sloppy to a release a MMO game and not have some of the most fundamental features that have become a necessity today… as in a real Looking For Group feature, but that is perhaps just my opinion. If a real LFG is coming, I applaud that. I would prefer a cross-server LFG system myself, at least for Flashpoints and Warzones. Heroics could be just server side, where you queue and wait. I know that introducing new content is a good thing; it just isn’t very exciting when I am unable to use the old content.

 

Regardless, if you read my post, thank you… I will try to stomach through the other 50 pages.

[chaosdefined]

I will try to stomach through the other 50 pages.

 

When you realise it's actually 91 pages, you may find your task a little harder

[DarthTHC]

I managed to find 3 whole groups via the current LFG tool (read: spamming General).

 

In the first group, the group leader rolled NEED on everything. Everything. I warned him once. Then I left the group. You see, in the current tool, the group leader can kick anyone they want at any time, but there is no vote-kick feature to use on idiots such as this.

 

The second group was amazing. Everyone knew what they were doing. Crowd control was plentiful and unbroken. Chat was great. The run was flawless.

 

The third group was a bunch of MMO noobs. Nobody understood crowd control - how to use it and how not to break it. DPS face-pulled constantly. Tank never watched anyone's health before leaping into the fray; not even his own. Nobody self-healed after combat. They were unteachable.

 

So the current tool, for this weekend, has a 66% f***tard ratio.

 

But I'm sure a cross-server LFG tool will be far worse..... /sarcasm

[Snoodmaster]

How so? In my estimation there wouldn't be much additional cost.

 

You'd prob need dedicated servers for chat but the rest of things would operate similar to cross server flashpoints and warzones. Players would temporarily hop over to a server as one would a flashpoint/warzone. Players from various servers would share the general chat with everyone else in that flashpoint/warzone. The biggest hurdle I can see is the GTN and future guild banks.

 

Note the original characters would still reside on the server it was created on.

 

Imagine that you have 500,000 players in Imp Fleet. Designing a system to handle that, and a UI to make transitions smooth is a significant additional cost. Significant enough to likely require a redesign of the entire game. It can be done, and I would be very interested in an MMO that did it, but it's a much bigger challenge than just adding a LFG queue.

 

I can personally think of how I would implement a LFG queue. I.E. what data structures would be required and what likely programming challenges might crop up. I envision a global data structure on each server with methods for adding and removing characters, plus some overhead algorithms for matchmaking. Not a trivial task, maybe a month's work, but not particularly difficult.

 

I can't even begin to imagine trying to write code to convert 120 different servers into a single server. Or how to handle load balancing on that server.

[Feluraunt]

When you realise it's actually 91 pages, you may find your task a little harder

 

I obviously missed that number didn't I

[chaosdefined]

I obviously missed that number didn't I

 

There are some great posts on how the LFD tool could help and how they could take the model designed by other games and then make it better. Unfortunately you gotta get through a whole lot of crying and ranting from people who got upset over in another game...

Edited April 2, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Meldwyn]

I apologize for posting and not reading all 50 pages of this thread. I may say things that have already been said, or... I might say things that will incur a flame... My only intent was to say what I feel about the topic of the original concept of the thread with my flare of the dramatic and sometimes obsolete ramblings.

 

To start with, I want to say I like SWTOR as a game... or maybe better stated is that I want to like it as a game, I just find it very incomplete in many different aspects (IE: User Interface Customization, Guild System, Support Ticket System, Crafting System, and Looking for Group to just name a few). Yes, yes… I know some of these things are coming, but I why are we having to wait?

 

With the number of MMO games released over the last decade, I feel that SWTOR is behind the times in many of the little things that make a game successful somewhat... fulfilling. I want to stay positive with this thread though, but it feels like no one in development paid any attention to other MMO games that have been created (successful or failures), or perhaps this game was being developed before the concepts of guild banks, customized user interfaces, looking for group features, and so forth. I have played many of these games (EverQuest , EverQuest II, Lineage II, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings, Rift, Anarchy Online, EVE, Vanguard… to name a few too many) and yes, they all had growing pains… bugs… incompleteness. I just feel that SWTOR has delivered just enough to generate interest but not enough to be a complete system. I am not trying to make a comparison to a specific game, but perhaps the need of a MMO game for today’s market in general.

 

I now have 8 characters in SWTOR on one server, all but one is in the high 30’s and I am running out of options and patients. Perhaps I am on an unpopulated server (Kath Hound), but I find it near impossible to get into Flashpoints, or even to run Heroics on any planets without waiting (actually praying), pleading, begging, and offering a pile of credits and yet it still takes several hours to do one. About the only flashpoint I see not needing a LFG for is the first one (Republic or Empire), seems to be plenty of people looking for that one on the fleet. This general chat LFG wasn’t so bad when the game was first released, there were a ton of people on, but now I see less than 50 people on the fleet at peak times. Usually 20 to 25 and on some planets less than 4 people… not even enough to make a group for a heroic 4. Yeah, I know you can use companions… but that is not the point being made. MMO count doesn’t include companions, so perhaps the easy fix here is to take one of the M’s out of MMO.

 

So, I guess in conclusion I just find it somewhat sloppy to a release a MMO game and not have some of the most fundamental features that have become a necessity today… as in a real Looking For Group feature, but that is perhaps just my opinion. If a real LFG is coming, I applaud that. I would prefer a cross-server LFG system myself, at least for Flashpoints and Warzones. Heroics could be just server side, where you queue and wait. I know that introducing new content is a good thing; it just isn’t very exciting when I am unable to use the old content.

 

Regardless, if you read my post, thank you… I will try to stomach through the other 50 pages.

 

 

Valid, all valid points!

welcome to the discussion, pull up a chair and stay for a while!

[ferroz]

Well the cost of buying the new equipment for setting it all up, not to mention the staff hours.

Why assume that it would require any new equipment?

[Feluraunt]

There are some great posts on how the LFD tool could help and how they could take the model designed by other games and then make it better. Unfortunately you gotta get through a whole lot of crying and ranting from people who got upset over in another game...

 

I played WOW since beta... I am used to the QQ

 

But, on that topic, I think some of the crying has merit. BioWare cannot please everyone, no game can. This is why I didn't compare to any specific game. I just think smart money is on a game that thinks of its future by looking at the past... "Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it" and that is what we have here.

 

So, no game in history of MMO has released with a LFG, LFD. I am okay with that, but BioWare could have been pro-active and had one ready to be implemented if it became necessary, which by the number of QQ and non-QQ posts on this thread seems to have hit the necessary mark.

 

** Slowly I am reading the back posts, while at work. **

[ferroz]

When you realise it's actually 91 pages, you may find your task a little harder

we're currently on page 23 for me.

[chaosdefined]

I played WOW since beta... I am used to the QQ

 

But, on that topic, I think some of the crying has merit. BioWare cannot please everyone, no game can. This is why I didn't compare to any specific game. I just think smart money is on a game that thinks of its future by looking at the past... "Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it" and that is what we have here.

 

So, no game in history of MMO has released with a LFG, LFD. I am okay with that, but BioWare could have been pro-active and had one ready to be implemented if it became necessary, which by the number of QQ and non-QQ posts on this thread seems to have hit the necessary mark.

 

** Slowly I am reading the back posts, while at work. **

 

And that'd be great if all those who don't like the LFG for valid reasons actually offered up constructive feedback of how the service could be done better. Sadly they don't.

[Azzras]

we're currently on page 23 for me.

 

46 for me. We are able to alter how many posts per page are displayed in our account settings.

[Orizuru]

And as great as that idea is, it's not economical. The amount of money involved in working on that, BW would never go for it.

 

It's also impractical.

 

When an IT department begins the process of deciding how to best solve a problem they typically try to find the solution that meets the needs of the system with the least amount of changes.

 

Converting a multi-realm MMO into a single-realm MMO would have so many high risk technical problems that could end up tanking the whole game that it just wouldn't be practical to try and make that kind of change.

 

This is the kind of change that is best done in a sequel or an unreleased game. The risk of data corruption and data loss and server instability is far too great for this type of change to be implemented in a game that is already launched and live on the servers.

[DarthKhaos]

Imagine that you have 500,000 players in Imp Fleet. Designing a system to handle that, and a UI to make transitions smooth is a significant additional cost. Significant enough to likely require a redesign of the entire game. It can be done, and I would be very interested in an MMO that did it, but it's a much bigger challenge than just adding a LFG queue.

 

I can personally think of how I would implement a LFG queue. I.E. what data structures would be required and what likely programming challenges might crop up. I envision a global data structure on each server with methods for adding and removing characters, plus some overhead algorithms for matchmaking. Not a trivial task, maybe a month's work, but not particularly difficult.

 

I can't even begin to imagine trying to write code to convert 120 different servers into a single server. Or how to handle load balancing on that server.

Why would this be the case. You're not converting anything. Look at it from the direction of how cross server warzones/flashpoints work. You hop on over to the server handling the warzone/flashpoint right? Your character still belongs to server X or Server Y yet for as long as you decide to stay inside that warzone/flashpoint you are interacting and chatting with players from different servers.

 

Now onto the single, or group of (if you want to do it on a smaller scale first) virtual servers. Your character still resides on server X or Y, however you can chat with anyone within the virtual server pooled from multiple servers. When you go to the planet of Alderaan or chill on fleet each individual server would act as a shard of the the zone just as the game would shard the zone if too many players are in the zone. So by switching shards you're switching servers as you would for a cross server warzone/flashpoint.

 

The biggest hurdle as I said before would be GTN and future guild banks because in a system like what I described why limit guilds to a single server.

[genealogymaster]

To all those against x server groups I understand you are resistant to change and it may be that on your server you're a grand time and well I'm happy for you I honestly am. However on my server I can't access all the content because usually there might be 18 on a planet in peak times and then 4 at slow times. How can you play like that?

 

As a sociologist, communities grow to meet the needs of the community and change always occurs in life whether we like it or not. Lets give X server groups a chance it can't destroy the community as much as not able to play does.

[lpooljay]

So is it better for me to spent 2 - 4 h sitting on the imperial fleet and pressing ctrl+ v which copy LFG. That's so boring!!!! I don't mind rude ppl as long as I can play the game instead just Sittin around and beein bored besides this won't affect u ,u got gr8 guild just do fp with them no one forcing u to usile this tool. i dont understand it why ppl are so against it u don't like it dont use it no one forcin u but for majority ppl it will allow them to actually enjoy the game instead just lookin at a screen where nothin happening!!!!

[Ordric]

no cross realm lfg tool, because spamming in chat and waiting hrs and hrs for a grp is the way mmo's are supposed to be played... thats where the real social stuff begins and ... right?

.... according to us selfish elitist j3rks anyway

 

no lfg tool, because my style of play is the only real way and I know that my opinion on how groups should come together and how socializing in this game should occur is the only valid one.

 

/youknowwhat-asm off

[Akella]

If the reasons people are giving for NOT having LFG tool is it will destroy the community, then I hope it does destroy the community. The community is rude and obnoxious as it is and I'd love to see it gone. The kind of community that runs up and steals nodes or boxes while you are standing on top of the node or box fighting a mob so you can loot the node or box. I want that community dead. If LFG will kill that community, then so be it.

[amantheil]

Lol, read the previous pages...ofc.

 

Unhelpful huh.

All i see is peeps want stuff Wow has...why?

To smash LFG buttons all the time and do there FP.

Then repeat it...makes a wonderfull game isnt it?

 

And standing in fleet saying "LF2M Athiss" for hours makes a wonderful game?

 

 

Look what LFG brought in Wow.

AFK people

Kick abuse

impossible to kick because bla bla

Ninja folks

Rude people

Impatient people

 

And why? Because they can.

 

Please. Rude, impatient people existed in WoW long before the LFG tool was created. As did ninjas. And in fact, the LFG tool actually cut-down on ninjas, because along with the tool they changed how loot was awarded so you could only roll on loot your class could actually equip. The crying about ninjas is such a red herring, because you can easily fix any problems by tightening up the rolling requirements (i.e, don't allow Jedi Knights to roll "need" on cunning gear, don't let people roll on gear outside their armor class or weapons they can't equip).

 

You know what else LFG brought to WoW?

 

- People actually doing instances while leveling!

Edited April 2, 2012 by amantheil

[lpooljay]

My point is if ppl who want to have community have one and others who just want to play and enjoy their game without standing in imperial fleet for two h let them too by implmenting x-lfg tool it doesn't affect ppl who don't want to use it so why u so agaimst it???

[Esproc]

Please. Rude, impatient people existed in WoW long before the LFG tool was created. As did ninjas. And in fact, the LFG tool actually cut-down on ninjas, because along with the tool they changed how loot was awarded so you could only roll on loot your class could actually equip. The crying about ninjas is such a red herring, because you can easily fix any problems by tightening up the rolling requirements (i.e, don't allow Jedi Knights to roll "need" on cunning gear, don't let people roll on gear outside their armor class or weapons they can't equip).

 

You know what else LFG brought to WoW?

 

- People actually doing instances while leveling!

 

You know what else wow brought too lfg, a flawed system full of trouble, so much so that they are completely revamping it because it is so fail.

[Esproc]

And that'd be great if all those who don't like the LFG for valid reasons actually offered up constructive feedback of how the service could be done better. Sadly they don't.

 

You, even in this post as many others, have never once offered up any evidence for a LFG Tool other than , well, forgive me, laziness, of a one button instant gratification and possibly a chance to be one of those very people we shun.

[JeramieCrowe]

But I'm pretty sure if there's no x-server LFG by the time my sub is up, I'll be playing GuildWars 2 instead of SWTOR.

 

I hope you realize that GW2 is also going to launch without an LFG tool... In fact, NO MMO has ever launched with one.

 

People need to grow more patience...

[ferroz]

You, even in this post as many others, have never once offered up any evidence for a LFG Tool other than

"people want it and there's no rational argument against it" is plenty of evidence that there are people that want it.

 

Unless you can refute the latter point, then that's sufficient evidence that it should be added.

[Esproc]

There are some great posts on how the LFD tool could help and how they could take the model designed by other games and then make it better. Unfortunately you gotta get through a whole lot of crying and ranting from people who got upset over in another game...

 

I posted proof that you asked for against a X_Serrver LFG, it was flagged and removed by a X-Server LFG addict.

 

I did my part, where is yours, other than hyperbolic conjecture.