No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[chaosdefined]

It's amusing the people who are moaning "we don't want this to be a WoW clone!!"

 

You do realise the game already was from concept. UI is the same, action bars are the same, game mechanics are the same...they basically took WoW and then shaved off all the main features that people used in order to hide the fact that they just copied WoW's setup.

 

So before you cry "We don't want a WoW clone!" maybe you should actually open your eyes to the game you're playing.

[Valkirus]

Unfortunately for you, the overwhelming majority of the people who attended the guild summit approved of group finder being single server only.

 

Watch this.

 

 

At the 12:08 mark. Listen carefully as the MC says "single server only". This simple thing led to huge applause.

 

And these type of events are what Bioware should use to decide the future of TOR rather than the many, many players represented by the forums and more importantly the subs who want a feature? You fail to forget that a lot of the features coming in 1.2 ,players on the forums wanted and complained about the lack of when the game launched. The forums are a way for the player base to communicate to the developers and you had better beleave they do read them. They also look at the player activities data. And mentioned they are very concerned why only about 30% of the player base has experenced most of the Flashpoints and Operations.

 

Also, why are they doing cross server PVP warfronts soon, but not Flashpoints? The answer is it is much easier to get a cross server warfront to work than it is Flashpoints. Having a single server side LFG tool is a good step in the right direction. But if they stop there, it wil be bad for the game. TOR needs a cross server LFG tool sometime in the future for not only I, but many others to continue paying to play.

[Valkirus]

I'm with this ^

 

Haven't done a flashpoint in about a month... and I play every day.

 

I wonder what the flashpoints after Colicoid are like? Never seen them.

 

Does the $15 a month I pay allow me to do flashpoints? Nope.

 

I'm a full healer btw (Sage Seer).

 

I've resigned myself to the fact that I will not get to experience most of the "elder game" content until we get a x-server LFG.

 

I just hope it's sooner rather than later... otherwise... "Later."

 

And this is how a lot of players feel. So I completely understand your flustration. The single server LFG tool may work ok on mid or high population servers, but I predict it will fail on low population servers because the pool from which the groups are formed from will be too small and thus make the waiting for such groups to be too long. Which will leave Bioware 3 choices...merge the servers, add a cross server LFG feature or do nothing and lose subs.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Valkirus

[Azzras]

You mentioned both in the post I quoted.

 

The fact that you have to qualify it pve vs pvp kind of says something.

 

if you go back far enough, there wasn't a game in history that launched with an lfg tool, pvp or pve.

 

if you go back far enough, there wasn't a game in history that had a quest log.

 

if you go back far enough, there wasn't a game in history that had instanced content.

 

the industry changes... and the time where it was acceptable to people to leave out certain QoL features at launch is pretty much over.

 

SWTOR launched with a PvP LFG...and GW2 will not have a PvE LFG...the time is not yet over if you consider an LFG tool to be in your list.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Azzras

[Darnu]

BW also said that they would not do cross server pvp and look whats coming for pvp.

Just because they are saying now its not going to be cross server does not mean we cant change their minds before the lfg is released.

 

No, but that's the attitude I can't stand from them. Anything that's needed to make the game actually work and playable or even just more enjoyable won't be added to the game unless they've lost sufficient numbers to basically force their hand, and up until then all we hear are excuses which rarely are about time/resources etc, but they didn't want to do it. Or they were surprised it was an issue...

 

And even worse, they DON'T WANT us to play like that. We shouldn't be given the option of both exploring the world while we're waiting for a group, we should be forced to choose between standing on Fleet or out in the world not looking for a group. We shouldn't be able to dual-spec because that's beyond SWTOR players. Macros make the game harder to players new to the game (never mind that by the time they come to SWTOR they've usually played other games before and are maddened by it). They really just don't seem to LIKE their players.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Darnu

[Azzras]

Yeah, if they bork this group finding feature it's going to put an even further dent in the subs. I really believe if they launched with an automated same server LFD this game could easily have 2.2million subs and limited server issues. Instead we have a very hostile playerbase at war with each other.

 

I keep pointing this out...no game in history has launched with an LFG tool for PvE.

 

Upcoming new MMOs will not have it either...ie GW2, etc.

 

One is coming to SWTOR, but I don't think it's fair to hold them on a higher pedestal than you would every other game ever launched.

[Darnu]

I keep pointing this out...no game in history has launched with an LFG tool for PvE.

 

Upcoming new MMOs will not have it either...ie GW2, etc.

 

One is coming to SWTOR, but I don't think it's fair to hold them on a higher pedestal than you would every other game ever launched.

 

yeah you're right. I was completely stupid buying into the idea that a collossal budget far beyond anything other devs have seen by exponential factors, massive development team, time as long or longer so not rushed and blatant promises of "All the bells and whistles of a MODERN MMO" would mean having something to show for all this. My bad. It's the fact that missions are read out to you and you talk back that's THE bells and whistles. And you're right. Just because they're EA/Bioware with LucasArts is no reason to have higher expectations than... hey who made GW2? Last time I checked it was a group of college students, has that changed?

[Darnu]

When you find me video source of X-server LFG system actually fixing server populations. Ill show you mine. But if you have played MMOs pre 2009. You would know Servers merges work and still do.

 

Simple maths really. Take one number, and add it to another number, which creates an even bigger number.

 

Maths might not be your strong point. But it is pretty simple!

 

I don't have a video of it but I'm pretty sure it lead to a dramatic increase of the Caelestraz server in wow. I don't know of any other specific ones personally. Maybe Proudmoore but I'm not sure. It lead to an influx into Frostmourne as well as an exodus out of there, as it did with Barthilas once people on those servers realized how horrible they really were compared to the others. No doubt the US servers experienced something similar to the Oceanic ones. Oh, and I think Khaz'Modan's population increased.

 

It works because people who are looking for a guild that suits their needs might have to move to a different server, and this way you can actually meet them and you can show them you on that character instead of just filling out an application and talking to them in-game on a level 1 and linking stats etc. Some guilds are looking for players. Some players are looking for guilds. Not everyone is horrified by playing with "strangers" on a different server.

 

This all seems to be about wow, but this completely overlooks some pretty major factors. In wow a server population is about 10,000. Any more and you're on a full server and have log-in queues, but I don't know what the upper cap is. And remembering a lot of these 10,000 also have alts makes for a lot of characters. And for all that, the people you tend to talk to and play with are usually your guild and the same friends and random strangers who - get this - you never see again.

 

In SWTOR I really don't think servers have 10,000 as a cap. And I've yet to see a single person posting that they've even seen 1000 people on a server. 350 people is the largest number I've seen so far. Estimates about how many players are actually playing regularly means that the SWTOR community as a whole, with all servers, is still pretty small, so it's pretty different. I'm guessing that cross-realm within regions wouldn't play too differently to a high-pop single server on wow when it comes to grouping.

 

TLDR: World of Warcraft isn't a suitable game for comparison. Population numbers of active players who log on regularly/daily is too different. And no, it's not the same as a server merge, but that's an entirely different matter altogether.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Darnu

[Valkirus]

And for all that, the people you tend to talk to and play with are usually your guild and the same friends and random strangers who - get this - you never see again.

 

When I do a LFR or LFG run..I am not interested in finding friends. My main interest is to do content I would otherwise have trouble finding grps to do them with. My friends..usually go with me and we do Looking for Raids and heroics together very often. And by the way...we added a new member to our guild just a couple days ago that we met in a LFR run.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Valkirus

[Daxun]

No cross server LFG please.

 

Bring on the normal LFG. Hopefully it doesn't port you straight into the instance tho. Hopefully you still have to make some effort :/

[Valkirus]

I keep pointing this out...no game in history has launched with an LFG tool for PvE.

 

Upcoming new MMOs will not have it either...ie GW2, etc.

 

One is coming to SWTOR, but I don't think it's fair to hold them on a higher pedestal than you would every other game ever launched.

 

Rift added it pretty shortly after release. They saw it was a very popular tool and to survive..they needed to add it also. GW2 will need to add it pretty soon after launch also or they will find themselves behind the curve quickly. But the whole point is...of this thread is the need for cross server LFG feature. TOR is going to have a cross server PVP one and a single server LFG feature. The single server one will not be successful without a server merge in the long run. Which I am against also. Sure it may work ok on high pop servers, but thier goals should be to make all the content in the game available to do on a timely bases for all the players.

[Valkirus]

No cross server LFG please.

 

Bring on the normal LFG. Hopefully it doesn't port you straight into the instance tho. Hopefully you still have to make some effort :/

 

It will need a instant port to the instance as many players will be scattered all over the galaxy doing different things. To expect everyone to use thier Fleet pass and then manually run to the instance is asking for a lot of wait times.

[navarh]

I keep pointing this out...no game in history has launched with an LFG tool for PvE.

yep

because that's real deal

 

not vo or pet for each player or space mini-game

[Snoodmaster]

No cross server LFG please.

 

Bring on the normal LFG. Hopefully it doesn't port you straight into the instance tho. Hopefully you still have to make some effort :/

 

Frankly, if it doesn't port you to the instance, it's already lost quite a bit of its usefulness. A good part of the reason people don't do flashpoints is the completely unnecessary and highly irritating 15-20 minutes it takes just to get there. First you have to taxi to the spaceport, then you go through up to 3 different loading screens (plus an elevator or two) to get to your ship. Then you fly to imperial fleet. Then there's a loading screen to get off the ship. Then a couple more loading screens (and a flight if it's on the Ziost Shadow or White Nova).

 

That's not effort, that's just wasting time. Especially since you have to repeat the process to get back to where you were going.

 

Also what do you guys think of this dev quote:

One recent change we did was with Flashpoints. We made it easier for people to get to Flashpoints [The Old Republic's dungeons]. In order to group up to do a Flashpoint were waiting around in the fleet, but that wasn't really a behavior that was conducive to people finding groups because you only want to wait around for so long before you get bored and want to do other stuff. So we introduced breadcrumb quests on the actual worlds and a shuttle on the world could take you to the fleets, so that while you were adventuring say on Alderaan and you came across one of the Flashpoint quests you could start looking for groups right on Alderaan where there's tons of people adventuring. Then when you finally got that group together you could go to the shuttle and go straight to the fleet and get into that Flashpoint. We're doing things that are going to improve the playability of our existing systems and make it easier for players to group, make it easier for players to understand a certain system.

 

How'd that brilliant idea work out hmm? Personally I found the random "breadcrumbs" annoying as hell and i certainly never found any "tons of people adventuring." You just get the feeling that the dev team had a completely unrealistic idea of how the game would work.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Snoodmaster

[Nitewolfe]

Frankly, if it doesn't port you to the instance, it's already lost quite a bit of its usefulness. A good part of the reason people don't do flashpoints is the completely unnecessary and highly irritating 15-20 minutes it takes just to get there. First you have to taxi to the spaceport, then you go through up to 3 different loading screens (plus an elevator or two) to get to your ship. Then you fly to imperial fleet. Then there's a loading screen to get off the ship. Then a couple more loading screens (and a flight if it's on the Ziost Shadow or White Nova).

 

That's not effort, that's just wasting time. Especially since you have to repeat the process to get back to where you were going.

 

I completely agree! Then i have to weight if all that time traveling to the flashpoint and back is worth it or should i just keep questing.

porting is very important for a lfg system to work.

 

Effort should happen AFTER your in the flashpoint not getting to the flashpoint and not in forming a group.

[Valkirus]

Frankly, if it doesn't port you to the instance, it's already lost quite a bit of its usefulness. A good part of the reason people don't do flashpoints is the completely unnecessary and highly irritating 15-20 minutes it takes just to get there. First you have to taxi to the spaceport, then you go through up to 3 different loading screens (plus an elevator or two) to get to your ship. Then you fly to imperial fleet. Then there's a loading screen to get off the ship. Then a couple more loading screens (and a flight if it's on the Ziost Shadow or White Nova).

 

That's not effort, that's just wasting time. Especially since you have to repeat the process to get back to where you were going.

 

Also what do you guys think of this dev quote:

 

 

How'd that brilliant idea work out hmm? Personally I found the random "breadcrumbs" annoying as hell and i certainly never found any "tons of people adventuring." You just get the feeling that the dev team had a completely unrealistic idea of how the game would work.

 

I think the Developer's comments was out of touch of what a modern MMO should have for doing end game content such as flashpoints. Good post.

[Darnu]

No cross server LFG please.

 

Bring on the normal LFG. Hopefully it doesn't port you straight into the instance tho. Hopefully you still have to make some effort :/

 

ummm, all the flashpoints I've done have been accessed from Fleet... so does this argument mean anything in swtor?

[Adderdin]

I keep pointing this out...no game in history has launched with an LFG tool for PvE.

 

Upcoming new MMOs will not have it either...ie GW2, etc.

 

One is coming to SWTOR, but I don't think it's fair to hold them on a higher pedestal than you would every other game ever launched.

 

Yea no game in history has launched with a full Voiced Quests either... oh wait...

As Bioware has been advertising their first game ever with voiced stuff, they forgot that they also need many more things, like NOT to be the last game ever to introduce the LFG tool, the dual spec, damage logs, addons, macros, paid server transfer, server transfer and so on.

[GalacticKegger]

Frankly, if it doesn't port you to the instance, it's already lost quite a bit of its usefulness. A good part of the reason people don't do flashpoints is the completely unnecessary and highly irritating 15-20 minutes it takes just to get there. First you have to taxi to the spaceport, then you go through up to 3 different loading screens (plus an elevator or two) to get to your ship. Then you fly to imperial fleet. Then there's a loading screen to get off the ship. Then a couple more loading screens (and a flight if it's on the Ziost Shadow or White Nova).

 

That's not effort, that's just wasting time. Especially since you have to repeat the process to get back to where you were going.

 

Also what do you guys think of this dev quote:

 

How'd that brilliant idea work out hmm? Personally I found the random "breadcrumbs" annoying as hell and i certainly never found any "tons of people adventuring." You just get the feeling that the dev team had a completely unrealistic idea of how the game would work.

Based on your post history there doesn't appear to be much about this game this isn't annoying as hell to you. TIP: Quick Travel to the planet's FP shuttle for an instant port to fleet then Sprint maybe 300 feet to your instance entrance. Those 30 to 60 seconds of the 18,000 seconds the average player plays this game in a day (5 hrs/day according to JO during his Guild Summit openening statement) ... are they too elusive to manage? Just think, if you were playing instead of griefing in these forums you'd have already been there in the time it took you to read this post! Edited March 31, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Darnu]

I think the Developer's comments was out of touch of what a modern MMO should have for doing end game content such as flashpoints. Good post.

 

Have any so far not been?

 

Also, those 5 hour sessions were when the game was brand new, everything was new, it was the holidays, people were levelling etc. Not many people continue to play 5 hour sessions once that's done and initial grinds are done every day.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Darnu

[terminova]

It will need a instant port to the instance as many players will be scattered all over the galaxy doing different things. To expect everyone to use thier Fleet pass and then manually run to the instance is asking for a lot of wait times.

 

It would probably break the FPs. Blizzard had to redesign every single instance to accomodate the x-server RDF.

[Darnu]

It would probably break the FPs. Blizzard had to redesign every single instance to accomodate the x-server RDF.

 

Did they? Why? They were already instanced on their own servers and hosted cross-server players, just not groups made up of people from different realms

 

I know they did for the cross-server raid finder, they created a third difficulty. But I've never heard anything about anything like this for dungeons

Edited March 31, 2012 by Darnu

[GalacticKegger]

No worries OP, there won't be a Cross Realm LFG tool any time soon.

The Group Finder feature we've discussed for the near future is definitely single-server only.

[sysproc]

The LFG tool needs to be cross server and it needs to port you directly to the instance.

 

Anything less and it will be a failure.

 

I recently cancelled my account and I will resubscribe the day a cross server LFG tool is implemented.

 

For the people who think a cross server LFG tool is a bad idea. In a year do you want SWTOR to be an active game with a single feature that you don't like, or see it turn into Warhammer Online 2 and wither and die while everyone runs off to play Guild Wars and Panda Land?

[Snoodmaster]

Based on your post history there doesn't appear to be much about this game this isn't annoying as hell to you. TIP: quick travel to the shuttle for an instant port to fleet then walk maybe 300 feet to your instance entrance. I mean really - those 30 to 60 seconds of the 18,000 seconds the average player plays this game in a day (5 hrs/day according to JO during his Guild Summit openening statement) ... are they too elusive to manage? Just think, if you were playing instead of griefing in the forums you'd have already been there in the time it took you to read this post!

 

Few points:

1. Quick travel is only every 30 minutes. What happens if it's on CD?

2. Not every planet has a shuttle.

3. I don't know about you, but my loading screens are often significantly over a minute.

4. You conveniently forgot the travel time back.

 

Personally, I've found 10-15 minutes (and up to 20 minutes) to be the average time it takes for people to get to a given instance from wherever they are. Certainly not 30seconds.

 

Besides, the point isn't that 15minutes is too elusive to manage. It's that in order for running a FP to be worth it, the rewards have to be equal to the time investment. Currently they aren't because there's a lot of wasted time spent on finding a group and on travelling to the FP. LFG will solve the time wasted on finding a group, having a port or a summing stone will solve the time waste in transit.