Immortal Pvp Spec/Tips(Needed)

[silver-uchiha]

Hello,

 

I read very fast threw some forum guide's with good explaining on jugg pvp, Ive seen rage spec vengeance and ive yet to see a TANK spec on pvp (immortal), just recently (maybe still on the same page) someone posted a immortal pvp spec this spec is not a tank spec as the person has described many times throughout his guide.

 

Im looking for a Tank spec/guide that works in pvp and at the same time wanted to know what exactly is the roll for a Tank Jugg in pvp.

 

Example: do i just stand there stunning and guarding?

 

Is it even viable for a tank to go into pvp? does he actually tank ? or get face rolled?

 

Should a tank be using Biochem in pvp even with promised buffs to other crew skills?

Edited March 25, 2012 by silver-uchiha

[Elyx]

Look approximately 5 threads down from this one (at time of writing). its a thread about PvP Immortal builds, and has a great discussion revolving around it.

 

In case you can't find it, here's a hint: it has "PvP Immortal build" in the title.

[silver-uchiha]

Look approximately 5 threads down from this one (at time of writing). its a thread about PvP Immortal builds, and has a great discussion revolving around it.

 

In case you can't find it, here's a hint: it has "PvP Immortal build" in the title.

 

yes the poster did state that the build was indeed immortal but wasnt a tank build it was using immortal for DPS.

 

My main uses Darkness (tank spec) for dps i know its kinda odd but im looking for a straight up tank build and its pro/cons in pvp

[Elyx]

yes the poster did state that the build was indeed immortal but wasnt a tank build it was using immortal for DPS.

 

My main uses Darkness (tank spec) for dps i know its kinda odd but im looking for a straight up tank build and its pro/cons in pvp

 

You looked at it, works for me. On the whole, however, you'll notice that he doesn't deviate much from a basic Tanking build. A few skills are switched out for more PvP oriented use, but they aren't specifically DPS skills at all.

 

Take as an example this basic PvE tanking spec below: (pulled from the sticky at the top)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcubrouRZhGM.1

 

There's only really a few small skill choice differences in that and the one Schwartz has in his thread. the skills he subs out are really general PvP skills, not necessarily DPS skills. Now...the skills schwartz drops out of the immortal tree are real tanking skills...but only from a mitigation standpoint.

 

From a PvP perspective, often control abilities trump sheer mitigation (not always though). like schwartz dropped Blade Barricade and shield spec, but picked up Intimidation and Unleashed. loss of general mitigation (shield and base defense proc) but reduced the CD and the rage cost on key control abilities for the immortal spec.

 

Edit: also note that he did not take any skills in the immortal tree that require Soresu. The idea is that you won't lose anything by cycling between Soresu and Shii-Cho. But on the flipside, the talent you would gain from that is a rage reduction on retaliate....not really a better option in PvP then reducing the CD on your CC abilities.

 

Other then the PvP control abilities, there's not much else different except perhaps the points in accuracy. don't need that, so they're dropped into Ravager instead, again reducing the CD of prime control abilities (especially for the immortal, as their force choke is also instant).

 

so in reality, the "DPS" immortal is really a "PvP" immortal. The extra DPS increase (if any) would come from damage from the control abilities that are coming a few seconds faster (a.k.a not much).

 

the true DPS from an immortal probably comes from gear and playstyle. I don't play immortal on my jugg, but from the people that do play immortal, I've heard the greatest issue is damage capability. the other tank classes simply produce more damage. You have a few more control abilities that are unique to the immortal class (a.k.a you'll have it whether your pimped up in DPS gear or maxed out in tank gear.)

 

But Schwartz thread has a ton of info in it about playing as an immortal jugg...I highly suggest you read it because it discusses many tactics that you wont get from a talent spec.

 

TL : DR - the "DPS spec is pretty much a standard "PvP" spec. no changes in that spec are specifically focused on DPS as much as PvP in general.

 

Edited to revise a few terms, misleading

Edited March 25, 2012 by Elyx

[silver-uchiha]

You looked at it, works for me. On the whole, however, you'll notice that he doesn't deviate much from a basic Tanking build. A few skills are switched out for more PvP oriented use, but they aren't specifically DPS skills at all.

 

Take as an example this basic PvE tanking spec below: (pulled from the sticky at the top)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcubrouRZhGM.1

 

There's only really a few small skill choice differences in that and the one Schwartz has in his thread. the skills he subs out are really general PvP skills, not necessarily DPS skills. Now...the skills schwartz drops out of the immortal tree are real tanking skills...but only from a mitigation standpoint.

 

From a PvP perspective, often control abilities trump sheer mitigation (not always though). like schwartz dropped Blade Barricade and shield spec, but picked up Intimidation and Unleashed. loss of general mitigation (shield and base defense proc) but reduced the CD and the rage cost on key control abilities for the immortal spec.

 

Edit: also note that he did not take any skills in the immortal tree that require Soresu. The idea is that you won't lose anything by cycling between Soresu and Shii-Cho. But on the flipside, the talent you would gain from that is a rage reduction on retaliate....not really a better option in PvP then reducing the CD on your CC abilities.

 

Other then the PvP control abilities, there's not much else different except perhaps the points in accuracy. don't need that, so they're dropped into Ravager instead, again reducing the CD of prime control abilities (especially for the immortal, as their force choke is also instant).

 

so in reality, the "DPS" immortal is really a "PvP" immortal. The extra DPS increase (if any) would come from damage from the control abilities that are coming a few seconds faster (a.k.a not much).

 

the true DPS from an immortal probably comes from gear and playstyle. I don't play immortal on my jugg, but from the people that do play immortal, I've heard the greatest issue is damage capability. the other tank classes simply produce more damage. You have a few more control abilities that are unique to the immortal class (a.k.a you'll have it whether your pimped up in DPS gear or maxed out in tank gear.)

 

But Schwartz thread has a ton of info in it about playing as an immortal jugg...I highly suggest you read it because it discusses many tactics that you wont get from a talent spec.

 

TL : DR - the "DPS spec is pretty much a standard "PvP" spec. no changes in that spec are specifically focused on DPS as much as PvP in general.

 

Edited to revise a few terms, misleading

 

 

very good explanation +1 ill take another look at it and try it out myself thank you again

[Veeius]

I don't agree that immortal has a place, at all, in pvp. There is no place - in my opinion for "support dps."

 

I understand what you're saying, and I see some very limited advantages in organized pvp. But you can't heal, you can't dps very well, all you can do is annoy people until their resolve is full, then you can't even do that.

 

I'd much rather go for veng or rage which can actually kill people. I understand the claim that you can keep a healer from healing anyone, but rage or veng can keep a healer from healing anyone but himself, which, imo, is just as good, especially b/c immortal will NEVER kill ANYONE. But rage or veng CAN kill unwary healers.

 

Look, if you run an organized team, and you're ok with sacrificing a dps slot, fine. But in unorganized pvp, there is nothing I can think of more frustrating that trying to pvp with more than a very few points in immortal.

 

To be succinct - you have tools to make it difficult for a dps or healer to do their job. But I find that killing that dps or healer works much better.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Veeius

[FkLex]

Oh it does have a very big place in PvP.

 

Immortals are very good at :

 

-> One man guarding turrets ( untill reinf come ).

-> One man guarding doors.

-> Being ball carrier.

-> Controling the game and by this I mean taunts, lots of stuns that can take healers out of the game , intrerupts.

-> Guardian

 

 

Taunt plays a very big part in this. If you mass taunt a 5+ group you spare your friends of ALOT of damage this way .

 

A well played Jugg makes a big difference in a WZ in my opinion.

[Veeius]

Oh it does have a very big place in PvP.

 

Immortals are very good at :

 

-> One man guarding turrets ( untill reinf come ).

-> One man guarding doors.

 

I don't agree, 2 stealthers means that 1 man guarding anything will fail. And even in pugs it's not too difficult to get 2 stealthers to do something. I've had it done to me, one knocks you back, the other stunlocks/snares you while the first los' you and takes the node while you slowly amble to it (while giving free maul's to the guy on your tail).

 

-> Being ball carrier.

 

Actually, it's better if you're NOT the ball carrier. Intercede on cd, taunt on cd, threatening scream, plus guard - you're much better at preventing damage to other than you are preventing it on yourself. Your tank cd's are impressive, don't get me wrong, but they don't last long, and they have substantial cd's. Additionally, they do nothing to prevent snares or cc's.

 

BUT - here's the funny thing, ANY jugg/guard can do the majority of that. It's not build specific.

 

-> Controling the game and by this I mean taunts, lots of stuns that can take healers out of the game , intrerupts.

 

Again, every jugg/guard has taunts. And I propose that stunning a healer until he's on full resolve is not quite as good as simply killing a healer.

 

-> Guardian

 

Again, every warrior who really wants to use guardian for some reason, can. It doesn't cost resources to switch forms, nor is there a significant cd. In fact, from what I understand, the more effective immortal build folk DO switch back and forth based on need.

 

Taunt plays a very big part in this. If you mass taunt a 5+ group you spare your friends of ALOT of damage this way .

 

You're right. I mass taunt a heck of a lot; In rage spec. It's just as effective as immortal spec'd, though I grant thrown guantlet does decrease the cd substantially, but again, it doesn't make up for the massive loss in offensive power - imho.

 

A well played Jugg makes a big difference in a WZ in my opinion.

 

I agree 100%. Where we disagree is the part that you probably unintentionally left out - you probably meant to specify "an immortal spec'd jugg" vice just "jugg."

[unclekaula]

95% of the time I can hold a node / door by myself as a rage jug in soresu. If theres more than one I lose LOS as long as I can and then use my roar to give me more time. If its a single target or two fresh/inexperienced players I'll just kill them. If its a healer of course it'll be a long fight unless they make a mistake, but the fights last so long in soresu+bm that its enough time for backup to arrive.

 

Obviously if its two bm stealths, I'll most likely be screwed. But what class wouldnt be when solo? (other than a stealth popping def cds)

 

Since imm is probably going to be using soresu when def nodes, I'd assume theyd have similar success.

 

 

 

edit: I'm not saying this is the best use of a jugg, because I cry every time I have to do it, just giving an opinion on if they could guard doors/nodes solo

Edited March 26, 2012 by unclekaula

[Taybul]

Immortal Juggs definitely have a place in PvP, just don't expect to be topping any damage charts (and ffs, PvP is not just about topping charts, people). You're there to be a bane for others, protecting allies through guard and taunts, an enemy support harasser, and also as a formidable meatbag for DPS to waste their time on.

 

As for actually killing people, Immo doesn't do the best DPS, but you're lasting longer while still trickling out damage. I once had 4 enemies on me (after scoring in Huttball) and I was able to take out one of them before they finally took me down. Same situation as Rage, I probably would've been taken out long before I could even get Smash off.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Taybul

[TreeheadWoodfist]

i'll just post another thread, where i shared my quick thoughts about the Jugger-Tank.

 

http://www.swtor.com/de/community/showthread.php?t=375298

 

 

regards

Treehead

[Kenegdo]

I don't agree, 2 stealthers means that 1 man guarding anything will fail. And even in pugs it's not too difficult to get 2 stealthers to do something. I've had it done to me, one knocks you back, the other stunlocks/snares you while the first los' you and takes the node while you slowly amble to it (while giving free maul's to the guy on your tail).

 

 

 

Actually, it's better if you're NOT the ball carrier. Intercede on cd, taunt on cd, threatening scream, plus guard - you're much better at preventing damage to other than you are preventing it on yourself. Your tank cd's are impressive, don't get me wrong, but they don't last long, and they have substantial cd's. Additionally, they do nothing to prevent snares or cc's.

 

BUT - here's the funny thing, ANY jugg/guard can do the majority of that. It's not build specific.

 

 

 

Again, every jugg/guard has taunts. And I propose that stunning a healer until he's on full resolve is not quite as good as simply killing a healer.

 

 

 

Again, every warrior who really wants to use guardian for some reason, can. It doesn't cost resources to switch forms, nor is there a significant cd. In fact, from what I understand, the more effective immortal build folk DO switch back and forth based on need.

 

 

 

You're right. I mass taunt a heck of a lot; In rage spec. It's just as effective as immortal spec'd, though I grant thrown guantlet does decrease the cd substantially, but again, it doesn't make up for the massive loss in offensive power - imho.

 

 

 

I agree 100%. Where we disagree is the part that you probably unintentionally left out - you probably meant to specify "an immortal spec'd jugg" vice just "jugg."

 

Quoted for TRUTH!

 

Immortal brings very little to the table. Any points spent past the initial 11 for Invincible could be much better spent in vengeance or rage. Those 20 points get you minimal amount of CC and almost no improved dmg. In reality the only CC you actually gain is one 3 second stun, a 2 second stun on charge, and your force choke becomes channeled. Any decent jug can chain disrupt - > Force Push - > Charge - > Disrupt and easily keep a healer locked down for 15 seconds. For a decently geared Rage or Vengeance Jug, 15 seconds should = death. Again, why settle for occupying a healer when you could just kill them?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Kenegdo

[Veeius]

I don't want to come across as a troll, or a hater. Look, I ***LOVE*** the jugg AC, and the fates can smack anyone who doesn't proclaim his/her jugg as their main.

 

The reason I'm posting - and the reason I feel the way I feel - is because I tried several specs of immortal and I failed - hard. Not "quit the game" hard, but pretty hard. I've had moderate success as both veng and rage despite being a "baddie."

 

What I was, and am doing, is trying to inform the op - and any of my heavy armor clad brothers and sisters that if you pug wz, save yourself a lot of heartache, and don't try to do it as ANY kind of immortal heavy.

 

In an organized team, it's arguable as to whether your team is better off. VERY VERY arguable. Immortal jugs bring a lot to the table - and the serious point of contention is simply do they bring enough to make up for what they DON'T bring. I would not say they're utterly useless, and I would not say you're a baddie for running one. There's very compelling arguments pro and con.

 

But I don't get that's what the op was looking for, and I feel most people going through these threads aren't either.

 

Most are people who enjoy the game, enjoy pvp, and enjoy being the battleship class - which is what I feel we are. Heavy armored, able to pack a whallop.

 

For THOSE people - I strongly urge you to go veng for a while, see if you like it. Then try rage a while, even if you love veng. Both have REALLY REALLY strong points.

 

Avoid immortal for pugs. Save yourself a heck of a lot of hate & discontent.

 

Lastly, again, keep in mind, my fellow blood covered battleships - a lot of the things people attribute to jugs WE ALL have. Intercede, taunt, threatening scream, even guard if you really really really need it for some reason. What immortal brings, if you look at the tree isn't so much about keeping others alive as messing with people who don't have full resolve already, but it does NOT have decent damage, it just doesn't.

[TreeheadWoodfist]

Hello,

 

I read very fast threw some forum guide's with good explaining on jugg pvp, Ive seen rage spec vengeance and ive yet to see a TANK spec on pvp (immortal), just recently (maybe still on the same page) someone posted a immortal pvp spec this spec is not a tank spec as the person has described many times throughout his guide.

 

Im looking for a Tank spec/guide that works in pvp and at the same time wanted to know what exactly is the roll for a Tank Jugg in pvp.

 

My personal opinion is that an Immortal Defspec has no real Place in PvP.

I reccomend for a PvP-Tank a 14/27/0 Spec.

 

With Deafening Defense you have a higher Damage Decrease and you have 6% higher HP.

What you loose is "Sonic Barrier" which hurts a lil bit, but in exchange you get way more Damage.

 

With "Intervene" (i hope it's the right english name for that spell) you also have a Defense-Cooldown for yourself.

 

That Package is my personal reason to play 14/27/0 over a Full-Immortal Build.

 

You trade A lil Migation and Control for way more Damage and and a more dynamic Gameplay.

 

Example: do i just stand there stunning and guarding?

That was what i did when i played Full-Immo.

I guarded a Healer and was just following him and tried all i could to keep him alive.

Maybe i was just bad, but i never felt like i really could kill someone without help.

 

With the Veng Hybrid Spec you have way more options.

You can change in Shien and do good Damage. (an Modded BM War-Leader Set should bring you to around 75% Surge)

You could also change to Soreso and protect a friendly Healer, Intervene on Cooldown is awesome in such a Situation.

 

 

 

Is it even viable for a tank to go into pvp? does he actually tank ? or get face rolled?

I think it's viable.

But i also had to realise, that i will never kill a skilled Healer by myself. But i never felt getting facerolled except some of my first "50-only" BGs where i had 2 T1-Items and fought against a Full-Battlemaster Sage. ^^

 

Should a tank be using Biochem in pvp even with promised buffs to other crew skills?

 

As PvPer i find Biochem superior to everything else.

Especially as Juggernaut, where you can switch from the Tank to the DD Stim depending on the Gameplay Situation without Costs.

 

I hope everything is understandable. English may not be my best written language.

 

 

Regards

Treehead

[DarthKyorl]

Immortal Juggs definitely have a place in PvP, just don't expect to be topping any damage charts (and ffs, PvP is not just about topping charts, people). You're there to be a bane for others, protecting allies through guard and taunts, an enemy support harasser, and also as a formidable meatbag for DPS to waste their time on.

 

As for actually killing people, Immo doesn't do the best DPS, but you're lasting longer while still trickling out damage. I once had 4 enemies on me (after scoring in Huttball) and I was able to take out one of them before they finally took me down. Same situation as Rage, I probably would've been taken out long before I could even get Smash off.

 

Exactly, and a lot of a Juggs efficiency depends on if you're PvP'ing with people who know what they are doing, I always crash into a group of enemies and smash, sweeping slash, then threatening scream, and if I have a good group the healer will heal me so I can take the punishment while the DPS players finish everyone off. Mostly though in PvP you have a bunch of idiots running around with out a clue.

Edited March 28, 2012 by DarthKyorl

[Psloan]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=208529

 

this thread was mentioned earlier but there was no url given so i thought i would share it.

 

that being said i pvp with 31 points in the immortal tree and have loads of fun

 

just have to know what your goals are mine are not to top any sort of DPS or Kills chart but to secure the win (and collect nice shiny medals) by reducing overall damage to teammates be it a dps and a healer defending a node or a ball carrier running it in for a score

 

taunt , guard , force choke and interrupts are your friend.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Psloan

[lordofdamornin]

I'll pass on a bit of my own experience from the last 2 weeks. Maybe it will help, and maybe it won't.

 

When I started out (at 50, in Oranges with daily comm mods, just the new PvP crystal from the crystal vendor), I was probably a joke. I am quite sure that my opponents would laugh at me, and my overall ineffectiveness. I am sure my teams were also starting to hate seeing me in their groups, for the same reason.

 

Then I got some experience.

 

Then I got some gear.

 

I'm still not leet, but now;

 

In Huttball, if you are going to attack me, you'd better bring 2 friends, or have BM gear, and all of your CD's.

 

In Huttball, if I am escorting the ball carrier, we are probably going to score.

 

In Alderaan, if you're coming to take Snow, you'd better bring a friend or two, or have BM gear, and all of your CD's.

 

In Void Star, if you come to my door, you'd better bring 2 friends, or be really good at your stealth class.

 

The way things are set up now, you kind of get to know people on the other side. They too, can get to know you. Now, I find myself the focus target of at least 3 of their players a lot of the time. Maybe they are still loling behind my back, and picking on the terribad Juggernaut. Maybe they consider me to be a threat.

 

Either way, it doesn't matter in the end, because I end up taking up a substantial portion of nearly half of their team's time. Maybe they are all just bads? I don't know, quite of few of them are in a guild called Condemned...maybe you've heard of it? Maybe not.

 

That's just some of my experience thus far, OP. Maybe it has been helpful, and maybe not. I didn't mention anything about spec - I use my own variant of Schwarz's, and I use the Vindicator (dps) PvP gear.

 

Riôt

Edited March 29, 2012 by lordofdamornin

[Maraxuss]

my immortal...like in voidtar when we attack i'll just be constantly casting the 50% move debuff (free with talents) in the middle of a hallway moving along slowly when we attack which is pretty much automatic win and game over...(i dont get any medals for that...but we did win because of it)...taunting everyone, protecting and guarding...you wont top any damage boards...but you arent supposed to. Your supposed to be hard to kill, bothersome and annoying and soaking damage for your team.

[Dar-Ell]

Hi, Dar-Ell here, long time reader first time poster (not really, it's a Mister Obvious joke)

 

I have a 50 Jugg almost full immortal spec and I PVP with him quite a bit. Recently however I have been playing my Guardian, level 38...woops, ding'ed last night, 39. Currently 9/21/0 going for the hybrid build...to try it out cause I was curious.

 

Yeah, everything I can do on my Jugg in tank gear/spec I can do on my Guard in DPS spec running in Soresu only I do it with more damage. No longer, when I attack a healer or ranged dps, does he roflstomp me, I'm actually a threat.

 

I hate to say this, I mean, I really HATE to say this, defending the Immortal's for so long, but I have to agree with the hybrid build. This is coming from someone who tried (is trying) both sides of the fence. Both are good at doing what they do, just one will actually kill enemies.

 

P.S. eagerly awaiting skill tree changes and dual specs in 1.2