Mercenary/Commando Suggestions/Remove Rocket Boost from Legacy

[Ehlin]

Summary:

1. Possibly give Mercenary/Commando a PVE-only interrupt, to alleviate issues with solo play. (which is the main reason people want one.)
   
2. Remove Rocket Boost from the Legacy and give it to Mercenary/Commandos as a “Force Speed” equivalent.
   
3. Possibly give Mercenary/Commando a “friendly-pull” move. Perhaps by lowering the cost of warden/potent medicine to 4 skill points and placing the friendly pull beside it.
   
4. Give Mercenaries/Commandos an in combat revive.
   

 

First, I want to say that Mercenary is in no way over powered. Anyone who can use an interrupt (5 classes?) can kill us easily.

 

(I) I want to say I agree with George Zoeller in that Mercenaries do not need an interrupt as it would skew PVP balance. However, a PVE-only interrupt would help immensely and it would prevent the class from being unbalanced in PVP. If that's still not viable because of raiding situations(I don't raid, so just assuming), perhaps give us an interrupt that only works on elite and under mobs?

 

Dastey made a post listing the types of utilities each class has, this is what he wrote:

 

So I'm sure we all know that certain classes are lacking either of the 4 abilities.

The 4 I'm mentioning are: Mobility, Interrupt, Knockback, and an Out-of-combat ability.

 

When you take a look at the advanced classes you have the following:

Juggernaut: Mobility, Interrupt, Knockback

Marauder: Mobility, Interrupt, OOC

Sorcerer: Mobility, Interrupt, Knockback + Friendly pull

Assassin: Mobility, Interrupt, Knockback, OOC + Pull

Sniper: Interrupt, Knockback

Operative: Interrupt, OOC

Powertech: Mobility, Interrupt + Pull

Mercenary: Knockback

 

I did not double check if what they said was accurate. From the classes I have played and from watching others it appears accurate however.

 

(II) My suggestion to address this issue is to remove Rocket Boost from the Legacy and give it to Mercenaries/Commandos. As a ranged class with mostly channeled moves we lack mobility and without an ability to help us keep a distance from our opponents we suffer. If your opponent knows how to use their interrupt it's essentially all over. Which should not be the case, there should always be some sort of way to combat another players abilities.

 

The following are my reasons for removing Rocket Boost from the legacy and giving it to Mercenaries/Commandos.

 

1. We're a ranged dps/healer; having and keeping a distance from our enemies is part of our class.
   
2. Most of our moves are channeled and we have very little in ways to combat opponents who have interrupts.
   
3. Sorc/Sage, another class whose moves are primarily channeled, has force speed allowing them to gain a distance from opponents.
   
4. Giving Mercenaries/Commandos a “Force Speed” equivalent would help alleviate PVP issues and not impact PVE.
   
5. The ability won't be over powered because players with gap-closing moves (warrior/knight) could still close the gap quickly and since our moves are mostly channeled while we are stationary our targets can still approach us.
   
6. (On a less serious note) What other classes would use a jet pack and rocket boots anyways!? It makes the most sense that Commandos would have rocket boots and Mercenaries the use of their jet pack.
   

 

(III) It would also be nice to see a “friendly pull” ability, at least on the bodyguard tree. A suggestion for this, to prevent non-healer spec'd Mercenaries/Commandos from using, would be to lower Warden/Potent Medicine from 5 skill points to 4. (While keeping the total bonus at 15%) Then place the friendly pull ability besides it.

 

(IV)Every healer class should have an in combat revive, which should be obvious by now. An in combat revive, in no way, makes Mercenary/Commandos over powered. It simply brings the Mercenary/Commando healing classes closer to other healers. Not much more I can say about the in combat revive, it seems like common sense to me. (And a lot of the community)

 

 

If you anyone agrees with what I've written or has some constructive feedback I'd like to hear it. I'm all for balancing out the game and I currently feel that the upcoming changes to Mercenary and the current state of the class needs to be adjusted.

 

 

**Also, I'd rather have an actually “Sprint” move(one where your character sprints instead of running) added into the legacy to replace the “Rocket Boost” feature. Or perhaps an increase to the movement speed from Sprint.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Ehlin
Typo

[GalnarDegana]

Summary:

1. Possibly give Mercenary/Commando a PVE-only interrupt, to alleviate issues with solo play. (which is the main reason people want one.)
   
2. Remove Rocket Boost from the Legacy and give it to Mercenary/Commandos as a “Force Speed” equivalent.
   
3. Possibly give Mercenary/Commando a “friendly-pull” move. Perhaps by lowering the cost of warden/potent medicine to 4 skill points and placing the friendly pull beside it.
   
4. Give Mercenaries/Commandos an in combat revive.
   

 

**Also, I'd rather have an actually “Sprint” move(one where your character sprints instead of running) added into the legacy to replace the “Rocket Boost” feature. Or perhaps an increase to the movement speed from Sprint.

 

I agree with all of these, with the exception of the friendly-pull. I think that is a unique feature of Sages and Sorcs, and should be kept as such. I think each healer has its own unique features, and I like that.

 

That being said, Commandos and Mercs definitely need an in-combat revive. That is something that is a staple of all healers, and Commandos are gimped without it. Luckily, according to the recent Q&A, they are considering putting that in.

 

And as for the special abilities of advanced classes, there are a lot left off that list, due to its restrictive nature. I am not sure what the referenced OOC abilities are, but only looking at abilities that knockback, that interrupt, and give more mobility is not getting a full enough picture. The following is a slightly better representation of overall utility:

• Commando/Mercenary: AoE knockback, stun, mez, armor debuff, tech and physical effect cleanse
  
• Vanguard/Powertech: Guard, single-target and AoE taunts (reduces outgoing damage of affected targets when they attack anyone but the VG/PT), interrupt, accuracy debuff, pull, jump, AoE stun
  
• Gunslinger/Sniper: single-target and AoE knockbacks, AoE mez, stun, slows, AoE energy shield for allies, armor debuff, accuracy debuff, root
  
• Scoundrel/Operative: stuns, AoE mez, knockdown, slows, out-of-combat mez, tech and physical cleanse, AoE stealth for allies
  
• Sage/Sorcerer: AoE knockback, shield for target, mental and force cleanse, AoE slow, root, friendly pull
  
• Shadow/Assassin: AoE knockback, Guard, single-target and AoE taunts, out-of-combat mez, stun, root, outgoing damage debuff and slow
  
• Sentinel/Marauder: Jumps, incoming healing debuff, slows, party run speed and defense buff, accuracy debuff, party outgoing damage and healing buff, AoE mez
  
• Guardian/Juggernaut: Jumps, armor debuff, AoE slow, Guard, single-target and AoE taunts, knockback, defense buff for ally target, AoE mez

 

As you can see, there are a lot of utility skills for Mercs and Commandos, and the ranged stun is especially useful. Granted, I have had issues on occasion not having an interrupt, especially coming from a Gunslinger to a Commando, but I have had a fairly easy time getting to 42 now, simply because I can heal myself from the get-go.

 

So, in conclusion, the Commando and Merc could benefit from an interrupt, but it doesn't need it.

 

Also, on the jetpack issue, I think it should definitely be a Trooper and BH thing, since it fits thematically, but there should be a short-term Burst of Speed (hey, a name!) that comes with the legacy. That way, four classes on each side has a quick in-combat run speed buff, and all classes have an out-of-combat one.

[Ehlin]

• Commando/Mercenary: AoE knockback, stun, mez, armor debuff, tech and physical effect cleanse
  
• Vanguard/Powertech: Guard, single-target and AoE taunts (reduces outgoing damage of affected targets when they attack anyone but the VG/PT), interrupt, accuracy debuff, pull, jump, AoE stun
  
• Gunslinger/Sniper: single-target and AoE knockbacks, AoE mez, stun, slows, AoE energy shield for allies, armor debuff, accuracy debuff, root
  
• Scoundrel/Operative: stuns, AoE mez, knockdown, slows, out-of-combat mez, tech and physical cleanse, AoE stealth for allies
  
• Sage/Sorcerer: AoE knockback, shield for target, mental and force cleanse, AoE slow, root, friendly pull
  
• Shadow/Assassin: AoE knockback, Guard, single-target and AoE taunts, out-of-combat mez, stun, root, outgoing damage debuff and slow
  
• Sentinel/Marauder: Jumps, incoming healing debuff, slows, party run speed and defense buff, accuracy debuff, party outgoing damage and healing buff, AoE mez
  
• Guardian/Juggernaut: Jumps, armor debuff, AoE slow, Guard, single-target and AoE taunts, knockback, defense buff for ally target, AoE mez

 

 

Thanks for posting a more inclusive listing of the classes utilities. ^^ Tho I think you left the interrupts off on most of the classes.

 

I agree with all of these, with the exception of the friendly-pull. I think that is a unique feature of Sages and Sorcs, and should be kept as such. I think each healer has its own unique features, and I like that.

 

My reasoning behind the friendly-pull was purely as a bodyguard mercenary. Which is why I suggested it being placed beside warden on the bodyguard tree. Being able to pull allies who are getting faced rolled could be advantageous as a healer. But, I could live without this. ^^ Was just something I thought might be helpful.

Oh and the animation could just be a copy of the powertechs grapple, so wouldn't require any work in the animation department.

 

Also, on the jetpack issue, I think it should definitely be a Trooper and BH thing, since it fits thematically, but there should be a short-term Burst of Speed (hey, a name!) that comes with the legacy. That way, four classes on each side has a quick in-combat run speed buff, and all classes have an out-of-combat one.

 

Doesn't it just make sense? Force users using rocket boots just seems like a bad design decision. Glad to see someone else feels the same in regards to this and I think "Burst of Speed" would be a fine name. ^^

 

Not to mention I still feel Mercenary/Commandos should have a "force speed" equivalent or comparable ability naturally. Just something to gain us some distance on players who can negate the majority of our abilities with their interrupt.

Which wouldn't break the class because force speed is easily counterable just as classes that can break combat and go invisible can be countered.

 

Again, thanks for your input really appreciate you taking the time to add your two-sense.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Ehlin

[GalnarDegana]

Yeah, I have never seen a Jedi use rocket boots or a jet pack. It just doesn't fit. Now, I know the legacy system will be giving Jedi flamethrowers, smugglers Force choke, and the like. I just think the jet pack goes so well with the Commando and Merc, it would be a shame to give that cool of an animation to everyone else lol.

 

And yes, I did in fact leave interrupts off that list. The reason was I made it for another post on the forums, then I re-wrote it in Word when I accidentally clicked a bookmark on my toolbar and it lost the entire list. For some reason, I forgot most of the interrupts when I re-made the list, even though I use my interrupt pretty much constantly on my Gunslinger, which is my main, and I left it off his list too lol.

[Ehlin]

Yeah, I have never seen a Jedi use rocket boots or a jet pack. It just doesn't fit. Now, I know the legacy system will be giving Jedi flamethrowers, smugglers Force choke, and the like. I just think the jet pack goes so well with the Commando and Merc, it would be a shame to give that cool of an animation to everyone else lol.

 

And yes, I did in fact leave interrupts off that list. The reason was I made it for another post on the forums, then I re-wrote it in Word when I accidentally clicked a bookmark on my toolbar and it lost the entire list. For some reason, I forgot most of the interrupts when I re-made the list, even though I use my interrupt pretty much constantly on my Gunslinger, which is my main, and I left it off his list too lol.

 

lol, np. ^^ At least you don't forget about the interrupt while you playing Gunslinger. I've forgotten about my aoe mez a few times since I rarely touch my sentinel anymore.

 

Oh trust me I agree with you that it fits more with Mercenary/Commando and it does seem a shame.

[Agemnon]

Smugglers and Agents need a force speed equivalent too!

[GalnarDegana]

^^ Really just Scoundrels and Operatives need it, but yeah, I agree. Snipers and Gunslingers are actually in a good place with cover keeping people from rushing us, and with knockback skills that keep people away for the most part.

 

Scoundrels and Operatives are really melee classes when it comes down to it, and they are the only melee classes in the game that don't have a closer. Yeah, they can use stealth to get to their target, and then they can burst pretty well, but that burst damage is getting nerfed, and after the burst they are through anyway. They have one good burst in them, and then they can't do anything or move quickly until they get back into stealth, which means getting out of combat.

[Otaking_SW]

I only recently rolled a merc but from killing enough of them on my 75 valor ranked Assassin I can definitely sympathize and agree with the above points.

 

I would further add a point about style that the merc is a pretty boring compared to its PT cousin even in terms of "feels like a bounty hunter" since the PT has carbonite spray, grapple and a charge. It feels just like a smuggler with two pistols and some medicine in actual gameplay and not Jango Fett.

[Gyronamics]

I only recently rolled a merc but from killing enough of them on my 75 valor ranked Assassin I can definitely sympathize and agree with the above points.

 

I would further add a point about style that the merc is a pretty boring compared to its PT cousin even in terms of "feels like a bounty hunter" since the PT has carbonite spray, grapple and a charge. It feels just like a smuggler with two pistols and some medicine in actual gameplay and not Jango Fett.

 

Get out of arsenal then and play with fire.

 

Chasing a healer round pillars, clubbing, slowing and burning him along the way until his defensive CD falls off is always exciting.

[Ehlin]

I only recently rolled a merc but from killing enough of them on my 75 valor ranked Assassin I can definitely sympathize and agree with the above points.

 

I would further add a point about style that the merc is a pretty boring compared to its PT cousin even in terms of "feels like a bounty hunter" since the PT has carbonite spray, grapple and a charge. It feels just like a smuggler with two pistols and some medicine in actual gameplay and not Jango Fett.

 

My roommate actually brought up today that merc just doesn't look/feel like a bounty hunter the way it's played. I love when I get to fight Mercenaries on my sentinel cause I just **** them.

[danpen]

Summary:

1. Possibly give Mercenary/Commando a PVE-only interrupt, to alleviate issues with solo play. (which is the main reason people want one.)
   
2. Remove Rocket Boost from the Legacy and give it to Mercenary/Commandos as a “Force Speed” equivalent.
   
3. Possibly give Mercenary/Commando a “friendly-pull” move. Perhaps by lowering the cost of warden/potent medicine to 4 skill points and placing the friendly pull beside it.
   
4. Give Mercenaries/Commandos an in combat revive.
   

 

First, I want to say that Mercenary is in no way over powered. Anyone who can use an interrupt (5 classes?) can kill us easily.

 

(I) I want to say I agree with George Zoeller in that Mercenaries do not need an interrupt as it would skew PVP balance. However, a PVE-only interrupt would help immensely and it would prevent the class from being unbalanced in PVP. If that's still not viable because of raiding situations(I don't raid, so just assuming), perhaps give us an interrupt that only works on elite and under mobs?

 

Dastey made a post listing the types of utilities each class has, this is what he wrote:

 

 

 

I did not double check if what they said was accurate. From the classes I have played and from watching others it appears accurate however.

 

(II) My suggestion to address this issue is to remove Rocket Boost from the Legacy and give it to Mercenaries/Commandos. As a ranged class with mostly channeled moves we lack mobility and without an ability to help us keep a distance from our opponents we suffer. If your opponent knows how to use their interrupt it's essentially all over. Which should not be the case, there should always be some sort of way to combat another players abilities.

 

The following are my reasons for removing Rocket Boost from the legacy and giving it to Mercenaries/Commandos.

 

1. We're a ranged dps/healer; having and keeping a distance from our enemies is part of our class.
   
2. Most of our moves are channeled and we have very little in ways to combat opponents who have interrupts.
   
3. Sorc/Sage, another class whose moves are primarily channeled, has force speed allowing them to gain a distance from opponents.
   
4. Giving Mercenaries/Commandos a “Force Speed” equivalent would help alleviate PVP issues and not impact PVE.
   
5. The ability won't be over powered because players with gap-closing moves (warrior/knight) could still close the gap quickly and since our moves are mostly channeled while we are stationary our targets can still approach us.
   
6. (On a less serious note) What other classes would use a jet pack and rocket boots anyways!? It makes the most sense that Commandos would have rocket boots and Mercenaries the use of their jet pack.
   

 

(III) It would also be nice to see a “friendly pull” ability, at least on the bodyguard tree. A suggestion for this, to prevent non-healer spec'd Mercenaries/Commandos from using, would be to lower Warden/Potent Medicine from 5 skill points to 4. (While keeping the total bonus at 15%) Then place the friendly pull ability besides it.

 

(IV)Every healer class should have an in combat revive, which should be obvious by now. An in combat revive, in no way, makes Mercenary/Commandos over powered. It simply brings the Mercenary/Commando healing classes closer to other healers. Not much more I can say about the in combat revive, it seems like common sense to me. (And a lot of the community)

 

 

If you anyone agrees with what I've written or has some constructive feedback I'd like to hear it. I'm all for balancing out the game and I currently feel that the upcoming changes to Mercenary and the current state of the class needs to be adjusted.

 

 

**Also, I'd rather have an actually “Sprint” move(one where your character sprints instead of running) added into the legacy to replace the “Rocket Boost” feature. Or perhaps an increase to the movement speed from Sprint.

 

I do not think this will be a good idea ok

[Ehlin]

If only there were a delete function. I'd remove this post(the one you're reading right now), but alas there is not.

 

Either way, anyone else have any opinions on an escape mechanism, in combat revive, friend-pull for mercenary? Which do you think we need/don't need, etc?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Ehlin

[Verraton]

I'd very much like to see a vertical movement escape, using the jet pack to propel you into the air and backwards/forwards. Rename this ability to jet escape and the knock back to explosive vents. Let commandos use cannons to fire at the ground knocking themselves back and into the air. Rename this concussion charge, and name the knock back air burst round.

 

As anyone can see this class is severely lacking something while other classes have abilities that help them utilize their class distinct abilities. I understand the reason for interrupt disparity from the developers to have unique combat roles and keep the game play dynamic.

 

That being said, Mr.Zoeller saying we have to much "utility", seems more than odd. Perhaps he meant something along the lines of, that one of the classes needed an interrupt restriction and we were it, and there was probably no changing that now since they've already launched. Otherwise I really, really don't know how anyone could think we have to much combat utility.

 

We are the get to range class, so let us have an ability that actually lets us get to range! Not to mention propelling us vertically could have a distinct operations/flashpoint advantage that can be utilized to keep us in the pve mix without us needing an interrupt.

[Ehlin]

I'd very much like to see a vertical movement escape, using the jet pack to propel you into the air and backwards/forwards. Rename this ability to jet escape and the knock back to explosive vents. Let commandos use cannons to fire at the ground knocking themselves back and into the air. Rename this concussion charge, and name the knock back air burst round.

 

As anyone can see this class is severely lacking something while other classes have abilities that help them utilize their class distinct abilities. I understand the reason for interrupt disparity from the developers to have unique combat roles and keep the game play dynamic.

 

That being said, Mr.Zoeller saying we have to much "utility", seems more than odd. Perhaps he meant something along the lines of, that one of the classes needed an interrupt restriction and we were it, and there was probably no changing that now since they've already launched. Otherwise I really, really don't know how anyone could think we have to much combat utility.

 

We are the get to range class, so let us have an ability that actually lets us get to range! Not to mention propelling us vertically could have a distinct operations/flashpoint advantage that can be utilized to keep us in the pve mix without us needing an interrupt.

 

While I think the ability to propel ourselves up and forward/back would be cool they wont add that, as it would eliminate the challenge for certain datacrons. Not to mention it would make the classes broken in Huttball. Nor do I feel it would be as useful as a move that's comparable to Force Speed.

[Verraton]

While I think the ability to propel ourselves up and forward/back would be cool they wont add that, as it would eliminate the challenge for certain datacrons. Not to mention it would make the classes broken in Huttball. Nor do I feel it would be as useful as a move that's comparable to Force Speed.

 

I simply disagree, theres simply no way to tell what they will do if anything unless you have an inside source or something.

 

More to the point, I see it as no more of an advantage than with a force speed equivalent. Giving us the ability to have a massive sprint, 10% healing overtime, a 25% damage reduction bubble with two (talented) "remove movement impairing effects" abilities would make us just as, if not more, op in huttball. Not to mention if you have an absorb relic, thermal sensor override off cd. or if you chain it with the in game speed buff you get in the huttball arena pit.

 

There's probably no way to implement a new ability, from my point of view, without ironing out pve/pvp bugs/exploits. Finding an ability that is simply going to fit right into our class is probably not going to be easy, practical, or much less a good idea for developers.

 

In essence though both of our arguments, or any arguments for that matter, are really moot. It's all a matter of actually giving us something and then balancing the small problems out. As well as getting the devs to recognize that there is an ability disparity with our class and that we do need an escape ability. That's why these discussions are excellent for exposure to that idea.

 

Hope that made sense, typed it up real fast.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Verraton

[Ehlin]

I simply disagree, theres simply no way to tell what they will do if anything unless you have an inside source or something.

 

More to the point, I see it as no more of an advantage than with a force speed equivalent. Giving us the ability to have a massive sprint, 10% healing overtime, a 25% damage reduction bubble with two (talented) "remove movement impairing effects" abilities would make us just as, if not more, op in huttball. Not to mention if you have an absorb relic, thermal sensor override off cd. or if you chain it with the in game speed buff you get in the huttball arena pit.

 

There's probably no way to implement a new ability, from my point of view, without ironing out pve/pvp bugs/exploits. Finding an ability that is simply going to fit right into our class is probably not going to be easy, practical, or much less a good idea for developers.

 

In essence though both of our arguments, or any arguments for that matter, are really moot. It's all a matter of actually giving us something and then balancing the small problems out. As well as getting the devs to recognize that there is an ability disparity with our class and that we do need an escape ability. That's why these discussions are excellent for exposure to that idea.

 

Hope that made sense, typed it up real fast.

 

 

Obviously I have no insider information.

But, one can I assume based on a simple analysis of the games current abilities and terrain that they would not be in favor of adding an ability that lets you jet pack up and back to reach a higher position. If they did Mercenaries in Huttball could run a complete straight line and be able to make it to the enemy goal and avoid all fire hazards along the way. Which are there specifically to slow down your movements so you can't just B-line it to the enemy goal.

Also datacrons that would require several steps to reach would be reachable with fewer moves. (In some datacron cases, one move.) Giving merc/com an advantage for something that should be the same difficulty for all classes.

 

While the ability would be overly useful for huttball scoring and datacrons, I don't think it's a good idea because it would be mostly useless for everything else.

The ability would probably not have the same distance covering potential as force speed.(as it would move you both up and forward) Which that alone makes it less useful. The entire advantage of the force speed equivalent idea is to be able to get out of range (escape) of your enemies.

 

Now if the ability would let you reach the same distance as force speed and have the ability to move you vertically, I might be more in favor for. But it would still be overly useful for scoring in huttball and datacrons and it seems unpractical that they would give us such an ability.

**I imagine if the ability worked like this it would have to have a reticle that appears then you click where you want to land and you just insta-boost to that spot, much like a powertechs gap closer. **

 

Which would be awesome...not arguing with that. I just think it's less likely to be implemented than a force speed equivalent(for what should be obvious reasons). And that its usefulness as an escape tool would be useless, unless it covered the same distance force speed can.

 

-------- Late when I typed this so hopefully I didn't word anything wrong. Now I'm off to bed! ------------