Everything needs a Chance.

[Jett-Rinn]

It's drawing criticism from Trolls, EA haters and self entitled babies.

 

Everyone else loves the game.

[Tarka]

It's drawing criticism from Trolls, EA haters and self entitled babies.

 

Everyone else loves the game.

 

Translation: "I like the game and everyone who has a problem with it, is wrong so I will call them names."

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tarka

[brunen]

I think the wow- comparison is just teh easy route for criticism.

 

I think it's better to say that SW would have been better had it been released 4 years ago, amidst the mass of wowalikes, such as WAR, AOC, LOTRO. Thats the level it's competing at currently.

 

The devs should have made an effort to at least make it Rift level in user friendlyness.

 

As it is, it's comaprable to 2008. Not, as many like to say, wow in 2004.

Edited March 25, 2012 by brunen

[Ezren]

You are ignoring the fact that in many cases its the focus on a particular feature that can have a profound impact on the development of all other features prior to launch.

 

With AOC, it was the melee combat.

With Rift, it was the Rift's system.

With SWTOR, it was the "story".

 

Now, whilst it is understandable to try to "design in" a feature that sets the product aside from the rest, sometimes too much focus is paid to that feature at the expense of creating a more "well rounded" product that can adequately compete in the current market.

 

Resulting in the polished "feature" being overshadowed by other elements that are seen to be of lower quality and/or quantity because of that focus.

 

it's like a car company focusing so much on the interior, that they end up under-developing the engine.

 

I will say this, SWTOR has a great story system. Building up from that attracts a demographic that WANT good story. I would rather have that in a game at launch, and wait on some of the other things. You would rather have other things, and thats valid too.

 

BW went with story, attracting my kind of crowd. If you want other things first, maybe this wasnt the game for you to begin with. You had to live under a rock to be an MMO player and NOT know this game was story-first, story-driven, and story-heavy before beta even began.

 

I am not saying your wrong, just that you have a difference of opinion from some other people, and the vision for this game at launch. I have little doubt lots of features will be added now that subs are bringing in money, while a dedicated team works on story for expansions. But honestly, 3 months is a blink of the eye in MMO time....give it a while to see what else is coming.

[Jett-Rinn]

Translation: "I like the game and everyone who has a problem with it, is wrong so I will call them names."

 

Like I said....

[Thornes]

I still enjoy SWTOR, I have made numerous characters since I hit 50 on my Main. I have not maxed out the valor, still around 50 or so. I am working on mastering all the different crafting abilities, running the daily's for money and checking out diff storylines and maxing the social. There are "filler" things for me to do. I am just waiting patiently for 1.2 and beyond Edited March 25, 2012 by Thornes

[Tarka]

I will say this, SWTOR has a great story system. Building up from that attracts a demographic that WANT good story. I would rather have that in a game at launch, and wait on some of the other things. You would rather have other things, and thats valid too.

 

BW went with story, attracting my kind of crowd. If you want other things first, maybe this wasnt the game for you to begin with. You had to live under a rock to be an MMO player and NOT know this game was story-first, story-driven, and story-heavy before beta even began.

 

I am not saying your wrong, just that you have a difference of opinion from some other people, and the vision for this game at launch. I have little doubt lots of features will be added now that subs are bringing in money, while a dedicated team works on story for expansions. But honestly, 3 months is a blink of the eye in MMO time....give it a while to see what else is coming.

 

Bioware's "target" audience isn't just people who like story. They actually made a point of remarked how they also trying to target other demographics. To paraphrase Daniel Erickson in an interview: "those who wish to progress their end game character, which we call the 'traditional MMO mindset', are a huge part of our target audience".

 

Which is why the "well perhaps this game isn't for you" line is never a good one to use, because it can actually backfire. Causing negative ramifications, affecting the experience of those who are left playing the game. That's why you'll hardly ever hear MMO devs use it.

 

 

Now, whilst 3 months is not very long in the grand scheme of the world, it is not those 3 months that's the problem, it's how long AFTER those 3 months will people have to wait to see the features and changes that they feel are important. And when the devs like to employ the "mushroom method" of communication, it is futile to expect people to just carry on subscribing indefinately.

 

When a person is being expected to pay for a subscription, time is money.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tarka

[Tarka]

I think the wow- comparison is just teh easy route for criticism.

 

I think it's better to say that SW would have been better had it been released 4 years ago, amidst the mass of wowalikes, such as WAR, AOC, LOTRO. Thats the level it's competing at currently.

 

The devs should have made an effort to at least make it Rift level in user friendlyness.

 

As it is, it's comaprable to 2008. Not, as many like to say, wow in 2004.

 

Very true indeed.

[Dark_Hazard]

The forums are a very very VERY small percentage of this game. People on here just complain about everything , BW wants you to give ideas and constructive criticism not just bashing them on every little thing they do. People on here make it seem like the game is horrible and is dying , but in reality it's not because if you play a lot I never find anyone or see anyone complain about anything , people are just having fun!

[iloveicarly]

SWTOR while only being out for 3 months is drawing a lot of criticism that is really not necessary or premature in the growth stages of any MMO. While a lot of people make a valid point about their views of WOW vs SWTOR, there is really nothing to compare except both companies want your business.

WOW's IP model was ahead of it's time, and yes after multiple updates/patches/expansions/years it has grown a large player base over it's uptime. If you look the the populations on WOW's servers though you will see a lot of boredom because the game is/has become boring, yet still people go back to play just like the days of EQ.

What every MMO company has issues with in my Opinion, is not the storyline, but the end-game. After getting to level 50, which I find to be the most stupid model for any MMO "Levels", there is nothing to do except like with WOW, wait for an expansion and new armor sets. MMO's do not need levels! This is the "endgame" when you define it with a number. Every player races to get to 50 because it is the "GOAL" in the game that sets the restrictions on advancement. Next is to RAID/BATTLEFIELD to get better gear or something trivial like accommodations for purchasing something that you already worked for by doing the Dungeon or PVP.

 

Like all MMO companies, they have hired groups to find targets in the marketing for potential customers and they cater to bring in new blood. It is the belief of almost all MMO companies that the average life of a gamer in the MMO is 14 months. As we all know from past experiences though it generally takes 14 months to finish the product with the public as paying BETA testers. With SWTOR I do not mind helping by keeping my sub, but I do expect a strong showing of updates, upgrades, and listening to the "Majority" of certain request from the public about what they want in the game they are paying for.

 

I do like the genre of this game since my age puts me as a kid during the release of George Lucas's movies. I was a hardcore SWG player until they added levels to the game, and at that point I knew it was time to move along, there was nothing else to see!.

 

My Next MMO if this one does not pan out will be The Secret World. It is a "Sandbox", no level game, and I really enjoy the fact that no matter how you rush, there is no level cap. If you want to change up, relearn your skills and do what you want and be what you want.

I am weary of FUNCOM based on personal experience with them, but if they use this sandbox system, I think it is worth the initial purchse and 30 free days to check it out.

 

people have the right to be a critic they are paying money for it:rolleyes:

[Tarka]

The forums are a very very VERY small percentage of this game. People on here just complain about everything , BW wants you to give ideas and constructive criticism not just bashing them on every little thing they do. People on here make it seem like the game is horrible and is dying , but in reality it's not because if you play a lot I never find anyone or see anyone complain about anything , people are just having fun!

 

What makes you think that some of the forum posters are the only people who are unhappy? What about all those who never post? Or those who never visit Forums full stop?

 

It would be naive to just assume that they are all satisfied. A lot of customers leave MMO's without ever posting on the forums. They are the "silent" players. And they are the ones MMO devs watch out for. And history has shown that threads on forums can often be just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to the level of satisfation / dissatisfaction that exists with the product.

 

However, I agree, there are ALSO a lot of people currently enjoying the game. So anyone who reads the forums should try to look upon the situation as being one sided.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tarka

[Strangefate]

I like to think that (some exceptions aside) people don't rage and complain for sake of raging and complaining.

I also like to think that most people don't rage quit because there's issues with an MMO that just came out, those are to be expected.

 

I also like to think that people rage and quite or both when they feel unfairly treated, lied to or ignored. I think anyone who likes the game enough to complain and ask for fixes in the forums, would take a 'thank you, we're on it and will be fixed in 3 months' and happily go back to playing and paying.

 

My main is 42, I have some other 30s and I had to reroll at 40 from a dead server so I'm not 50 yet... I do like the game and love the potential and while I do dislike the look of the gear and the empty servers, I'd love to keep paying as long as I know that BW is on top of things.

 

I do miss a proper LFG tool, I am sad that I'm leveling alone as the new server I picked has been dying too, I'm not crazy about the gear nor the new coming weird gear. I didn't enjoy having to redo some quests and some group quests because they were either bugged or the way things are set up will break somegroup quests for some.

I do not like that I'm on a PVP server and have only seen maybe 7 imps during leveling, killed 1, 2 killed me together, I got only ganked twice during leveling by 50s... and that's all since release date.

 

All those things are still not reason for me to quit as it is a new MMO and all that, but what eventually will make me quit is BWs dismissing or ignoring attitude that makes them look like they don't get it, which in turn makes me lose my faith in them.

 

I think anyone who can afford it, will fight and pay to help make this game better, as long as BW feels connected to the community and reliable... otherwise it will feel pointless.

They could shut down all the 'MERGE SERVERS' and 'GAME IS DYING HELP!!1!' threads with just 1 friendly post on the issue on their end.

 

 

As for the WoW comparisons, they're sadly perfectly appropiate. BW has said that they were copying some stuff from WoW, and ultimately TOR plays like WoW and some classes use the exact same skills with the same durations etc.

 

It may seem unfair to compare TOR to WoW today, but it's an Arena they knowingly entered themselves and I'm pretty sure that they knew it would happen. Perhaps they should have invested some of those 200mil into more features.

 

 

 

While you can blame some people from playing too much and reaching 50 to quick on any new MMO, BW dropped the ball when it came to giving people things to do at 50.

No mini games, traveling planets to collect crafting mats is not necessary either hmm, you really do your dailies and log off I guess, or come to complain here.

 

Caps of any kind, be it in leveling or crafting will always be like dangling a carrot in front of a mule for a lot of people, they will chase that cap relentlessly.

Personally I wish they had stolen as much from the old SWG as they did from WOW.

SWG's crafting alone was a game in itself, exploring in groups was exciting and dangerous.

 

The game gave people a few things to do where there was no cap to hit and yet felt rewarding.

 

TOR is built upon the beating content and moving forward formula where as if they had mixed some sandboxing in there, people would be messing around in the game while they wait.

[iloveicarly]

i like to think that (some exceptions aside) people don't rage and complain for sake of raging and complaining.

I also like to think that most people don't rage quit because there's issues with an mmo that just came out, those are to be expected.

 

I also like to think that people rage and quite or both when they feel unfairly treated, lied to or ignored. I think anyone who likes the game enough to complain and ask for fixes in the forums, would take a 'thank you, we're on it and will be fixed in 3 months' and happily go back to playing and paying.

 

My main is 42, i have some other 30s and i had to reroll at 40 from a dead server so i'm not 50 yet... I do like the game and love the potential and while i do dislike the look of the gear and the empty servers, i'd love to keep paying as long as i know that bw is on top of things.

 

I do miss a proper lfg tool, i am sad that i'm leveling alone as the new server i picked has been dying too, i'm not crazy about the gear nor the new coming weird gear. I didn't enjoy having to redo some quests and some group quests because they were either bugged or the way things are set up will break somegroup quests for some.

I do not like that i'm on a pvp server and have only seen maybe 7 imps during leveling, killed 1, 2 killed me together, i got only ganked twice during leveling by 50s... And that's all since release date.

 

All those things are still not reason for me to quit as it is a new mmo and all that, but what eventually will make me quit is bws dismissing or ignoring attitude that makes them look like they don't get it, which in turn makes me lose my faith in them.

 

I think anyone who can afford it, will fight and pay to help make this game better, as long as bw feels connected to the community and reliable... Otherwise it will feel pointless.

They could shut down all the 'merge servers' and 'game is dying help!!1!' threads with just 1 friendly post on the issue on their end.

 

 

As for the wow comparisons, they're sadly perfectly appropiate. Bw has said that they were copying some stuff from wow, and ultimately tor plays like wow and some classes use the exact same skills with the same durations etc.

 

It may seem unfair to compare tor to wow today, but it's an arena they knowingly entered themselves and i'm pretty sure that they knew it would happen. Perhaps they should have invested some of those 200mil into more features.

 

 

 

While you can blame some people from playing too much and reaching 50 to quick on any new mmo, bw dropped the ball when it came to giving people things to do at 50.

No mini games, traveling planets to collect crafting mats is not necessary either hmm, you really do your dailies and log off i guess, or come to complain here.

 

Caps of any kind, be it in leveling or crafting will always be like dangling a carrot in front of a mule for a lot of people, they will chase that cap relentlessly.

Personally i wish they had stolen as much from the old swg as they did from wow.

Swg's crafting alone was a game in itself, exploring in groups was exciting and dangerous.

 

The game gave people a few things to do where there was no cap to hit and yet felt rewarding.

 

Tor is built upon the beating content and moving forward formula where as if they had mixed some sandboxing in there, people would be messing around in the game while they wait.

 

this qft

[Ezren]

Bioware's "target" audience isn't just people who like story. They actually made a point of remarked how they also trying to target other demographics. To paraphrase Daniel Erickson in an interview: "those who wish to progress their end game character, which we call the 'traditional MMO mindset', are a huge part of our target audience".

 

Which is why the "well perhaps this game isn't for you" line is never a good one to use, because it can actually backfire. Causing negative ramifications, affecting the experience of those who are left playing the game. That's why you'll hardly ever hear MMO devs use it.

 

 

Now, whilst 3 months is not very long in the grand scheme of the world, it is not those 3 months that's the problem, it's how long AFTER those 3 months will people have to wait to see the features and changes that they feel are important. And when the devs like to employ the "mushroom method" of communication, it is futile to expect people to just carry on subscribing indefinately.

 

When a person is being expected to pay for a subscription, time is money.

 

True no game will come out and say "this game isnt for you" . However, I was merely stating if YOU personally are this unhappy maybe it wasnt for you. Maybe it is, thats for you to decide though.

 

I do know this game has had a sub-set of posters that has been vocal, loud and demanding about everything from the start, and how the game is SO FAIL because its missing. Sometimes I read the forums and ponder what exactly WOULD make some of them happy, would they find somehting else to complain about if their want had been here all along? Now not saying your part of that crowd, but when someone posts up about how this or that isnt up to standards, and should have been priority number 1, its the first thing that pops in my head.

 

If something is vital to your fun and this game doesnt have it or wont have it in a timeframe you find acceptable, then find something that does. If your able to wait, thats great!

 

Make what you want know of course, ask for it, dont be quiet about it by any means, but there are ways to do that without sounding like your so displeased with everything else because something you might want isnt present yet. That doesnt help you or the game.

 

You can campaign for something to be added very successfully, at the same time you enjoy what IS present.

[Tarka]

I like to think that (some exceptions aside) people don't rage and complain for sake of raging and complaining.

I also like to think that most people don't rage quit because there's issues with an MMO that just came out, those are to be expected.

 

I also like to think that people rage and quite or both when they feel unfairly treated, lied to or ignored. I think anyone who likes the game enough to complain and ask for fixes in the forums, would take a 'thank you, we're on it and will be fixed in 3 months' and happily go back to playing and paying.

 

I agree. Communication should always be two way and be as concise as possible.

 

However, I will give Bioware credit, they've just started asking for "focused feedback" on subjects. Beginning first with PVP. Thus in this case, Bioware are driving the feedback discussion. And I think that is a good thing to do. Well done James. Of course, it shouldn't end there, Bioware should then reciprocate.

 

However, I look forward to seeing such "bioware focused" feedback discussions in the future.

 

TOR is built upon the beating content and moving forward formula where as if they had mixed some sandboxing in there, people would be messing around in the game while they wait.

 

I agree. I believe that variety and options in content are keys to success. The game needs to be "fleshed out". The question is, how long will that take?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tarka

[Tarka]

True no game will come out and say "this game isnt for you" . However, I was merely stating if YOU personally are this unhappy maybe it wasnt for you. Maybe it is, thats for you to decide though.

 

I do know this game has had a sub-set of posters that has been vocal, loud and demanding about everything from the start, and how the game is SO FAIL because its missing. Sometimes I read the forums and ponder what exactly WOULD make some of them happy, would they find somehting else to complain about if their want had been here all along? Now not saying your part of that crowd, but when someone posts up about how this or that isnt up to standards, and should have been priority number 1, its the first thing that pops in my head.

 

If something is vital to your fun and this game doesnt have it or wont have it in a timeframe you find acceptable, then find something that does. If your able to wait, thats great!

 

Make what you want know of course, ask for it, dont be quiet about it by any means, but there are ways to do that without sounding like your so displeased with everything else because something you might want isnt present yet. That doesnt help you or the game.

 

You can campaign for something to be added very successfully, at the same time you enjoy what IS present.

 

I am, and I have.

 

There is little in the game that I wanted to experience, that I haven't done already.

 

And therein lies the problem. Even Bioware has admitted that the number of level 50's has caught them by surprise. Which shows that they have under estimated their intended audience.

 

Funny thing is, there are many threads containing constructive feedback, but certain "closed minds", cannot seem to differentiate between the different levels of quality in feedback. Those minds perhaps cannot fathom how anyone can have an issue with the game.

 

Those minds are the ones who label ALL feedback as nothing more than illiterate "QQ'ing" babble.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tarka

[Dark_Hazard]

What makes you think that some of the forum posters are the only people who are unhappy? What about all those who never post? Or those who never visit Forums full stop?

 

It would be naive to just assume that they are all satisfied. A lot of customers leave MMO's without ever posting on the forums. They are the "silent" players. And they are the ones MMO devs watch out for. And history has shown that threads on forums can often be just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to the level of satisfation / dissatisfaction that exists with the product.

 

However, I agree, there are ALSO a lot of people currently enjoying the game. So anyone who reads the forums should try to look upon the situation as being one sided.

 

I'm just basing my viewpoint off of personal experience , nobody I know who plays this game dislikes it. The majority of people who play this game are the general star wars fans. Not hardcore MMO fanatics. But you should be targeting all the different audiences not just one.

[Strangefate]

The forums are a very very VERY small percentage of this game. People on here just complain about everything , BW wants you to give ideas and constructive criticism not just bashing them on every little thing they do. People on here make it seem like the game is horrible and is dying , but in reality it's not because if you play a lot I never find anyone or see anyone complain about anything , people are just having fun!

 

So are the focus groups used by game devs to rate the progress of their games, or the focus groups used to rate movies before they come out, or the groups used for science and research or any kind of studies.

Which is also the same reason why people use fleet number to gauge the population of a server.

 

If you read the entire forums I think you'll realize that there's only so many bashing and negative posts and many many constructive ones. Either way, the forums will give you an idea of how the community feels about the product.

 

The bashing in most cases seems to be BW fault as they simply fail to say something about some larger issues and instead let it fester and people become angry.

[Tarka]

I'm just basing my viewpoint off of personal experience , nobody I know who plays this game dislikes it. The majority of people who play this game are the general star wars fans. Not hardcore MMO fanatics. But you should be targeting all the different audiences not just one.

 

Well, I have some friends who are thoroughly enjoying the game, and I have friends who aren't and have stopped playing it much. Bioware said prior to launch that they are not just targetting one particular demographic. Which is a good thing.

[CrunkShizzle]

funcom?

 

i figured they learned there lesson with age of conan and stopped making mmorpgs lol

 

but in terms of the topic.from what ive seen,the community isnt gonna give sw tor the chance.which is why im more then likely packing my bags and heading to another mmo when it comes out

 

i mean,it just seems like the community wanted years of content from a fresh mmo.and theres no way that would of happened in reality,so now instead of sticking with it and saying that more content will come over time they eather

 

have there fingers already over the unsubscribe button and waiting for the mythical jesus patch thats going to bring in tons of content and stuff to do that is 1.2(which i doubt it)or they already left

 

i view sw tor as a mmo with good potential,but it was ruined by its community

Edited March 25, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[Tarka]

So are the focus groups used by game devs to rate the progress of their games, or the focus groups used to rate movies before they come out, or the groups used for science and research or any kind of studies.

Which is also the same reason why people use fleet number to gauge the population of a server.

 

If you read the entire forums I think you'll realize that there's only so many bashing and negative posts and many many constructive ones. Either way, the forums will give you an idea of how the community feels about the product.

 

The bashing in most cases seems to be BW fault as they simply fail to say something about some larger issues and instead let it fester and people become angry.

 

Very true indeed. The longer you don't address something, the worse it can get.

 

Of course, no one is expecting the devs to be constantly on the forums, but that's what the Community team is supposed to be for. they are the ones who should be one of the conduits between the devs and the players.

 

Unfortunately, it seems that some of the community management team / devs lack a bit of diplomacy when dealing with issues. Bluntness and sarcasm for the sake of being humourous can often quite literally fan the flames unless steps are taken to address the issue in a more respectful manner.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tarka

[Tarka]

funcom?

 

i figured they learned there lesson with age of conan and stopped making mmorpgs lol

 

Funnily enough, no. Their next one, which incidentally is being published through EA, is due out in June.

[Dark_Hazard]

Well, I have some friends who are thoroughly enjoying the game, and I have friends who aren't and have stopped playing it much. Bioware said prior to launch that they are not just targetting one particular demographic. Which is a good thing.

 

Yes it is a very good thing. If they didn't target multiple audiences then they would be screwing themselves over.

[Vlaxitov]

Yes it is a very good thing. If they didn't target multiple audiences then they would be screwing themselves over.

 

Because its all about making money over being good at what you do.

 

Sorry but its that philosophy that has screwed every wannabe WoW over ever since WoW became as big as Vern Troyer's.... mage.

 

Today's MMO developers would rather fail miserably at being WoW than succeed to a moderate extent at doing their own thing. They won't lower their commercial expectations so its a game of pass or fail, all or nothing.

 

People wouldn't say a musical act that tries to appeal to everyone is a good thing because it never is. Video games are no different in that respect.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[kirorx]

Here is the Story about BETA TESTING and the "yes" crowd.

 

Many people posted dislikes about this game during Beta, things like character customization, linear content and small planets, space on rails, Restricting VO, PVP issues and inbalances, lack of day and night planetary cycles and an overall static feel.

 

Yet, for every one complaint there would be an influx of players that wanted this game to come out "right now" that they would flame these players as WOW fanboyz and all talk about how this game is the new messiah of gaming.

 

Well, the fan base had a chance to voice what they felt bioware did wrong and that time period has past and was squandered.

 

Here we are not even 6 months in yet and already many players are just bored, the first 10 levels are incredible IMO and really hook you; but after that the reality sets in. Its repeat, repeat, repeat. Its time sink after time sink and so much recycled content its incredible.

 

The restrictions have nearly all players look identical, most of our time is spent on the fleet because there is no open world to enjoy, its just a bunch of leveling areas.

 

The legacy update, something that we should have been informed about months ago is just another excuse to encourage re-rolling. Re-roll: repeating the same content i just played so i can be a species that should have been available from the start.

Edited March 25, 2012 by kirorx