Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 This is partly true, moreso in WG. When WG first came out it was a laggy PoS. they fixed it though. Tol Barad never had those issues. You don't remember the exploiting in TB? It was so broken that it was basically shut down for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Back to the same argument. Blizzard is the leader. When they make an error in judgement they can tweak it without the same kind of scrutiny as an underdog competitor will get. Just the facts. And I wouldn't call either of those "re-tooled" to the extent that it seems Ilum will be. I don't believe Blizzard ever used the word "scrap" for their own designs. If you do want to pick on one, pick on the old Alterac Valley. I'm not 'picking' on them, I'm stating facts as I remember them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Darth Malgus story doesn't seem much more interesting than the summary. He was a simple orphan boy who showed an affinity for the dark side when he killed a servent. he was sent to a military academy and grew through the ranks from a no body to Emperor. He had some good quotes, lead a few armies and campaigns and killed republic armies. The only defining moment was when he decided that the relationship he had with a woman was a weakness, so he killed her. He was also tricked in to fighting a battle that was just leverage for a peace treaty. The text of the wiki page for Malgus is long, no doubt, and filled with an aweful lot of fluff. Not to mention that the biography (the majority of the wiki page) is a more in depth version of the synopsis, which is rather short. On the other hand, the story of the Lich King and how Arthas became who is was, starts many years before Arthas and involved masterful deception at the hands of Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul and Mal'ganis http://www.wowwiki.com/Rise_of_the_Lich_King Just the summary of Arthas has more of a plot than Malganus. Would you rather see that, as a movie? or see a movie about a boy that went to sith school, became a general and later emperor and killed a bunch of people? Wait, we already have dozens of movies like that. Aside from becoming Emperor, the story of Anikan Skywalker is close enough. The other supporting aspect of the story of Arthas being WAY more in depth than Malgus, is that Arthas not only has 2 whole expansions JUST FOR HIM (Warcraft 3, TFT and WotLK), he has a 300+ page hardcover about his life. http://www.wowwiki.com/Arthas:_Rise_of_the_Lich_King Although I'm much more a Swtor fan than a WoW fan, I have to admit your post is spot on. Arthas' story had a lot more meat to it than Malgus'. Not only that, but you also empathized moe with Arthas. A villian, true enough. But for a purpose. He sacrificed much to save a whole lot more. I actually grieved his death. He deserved better than that. Malgus, not so much. He was shallow, to be quite honest. I can sum him up with two words, and tell his life story in three sentences. Hell, to be frank, Prince Kael'thas was far more in-depth as a character than Malgus. The only feelings Malgus elicited from me in the game and the novel he starred in was a deep feeling of dislike. I didn't have to think about what kind of person he was, or even analyze him for a second. Even as a character, he himself hardly had a thought to him. He was so... how do I put this... transparent. A very predictable person, and that was disappointing. I was actually happy to find out you get to kill him at one point in the game. Well, let me run before the Malgus fan club reads this and puts a contract out on my hide... Edited March 28, 2012 by Pythoris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You don't remember the exploiting in TB? It was so broken that it was basically shut down for a while. My point was Ilum is being shut down for being both a design and technical failure. WG was technical, Tol Barad was design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) My point was Ilum is being shut down for being both a design and technical failure. WG was technical, Tol Barad was design. design wasnt a problem with illum, people abusing the design was. Edited March 28, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 design wasnt a problem with illum, people abusing the design was. Err...if the design is opened to be abused then yea, that is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Err...if the design is opened to be abused then yea, that is a problem. No, if the design is being exploited then that isnt a fault of the design, its the fault of players abusing the design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Back to the same argument. Blizzard is the leader. When they make an error in judgement they can tweak it without the same kind of scrutiny as an underdog competitor will get. Just the facts. This comment deserves another, well, comment. So you are saying SWTOR is held to higher standards than WoW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 No, if the design is being exploited then that isnt a fault of the design, its the fault of players abusing the design. That is your opinion and you can be entitled to it, but I don't know many people who will agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 This comment deserves another, well, comment. So you are saying SWTOR is held to higher standards than WoW? All competitors are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That is your opinion and you can be entitled to it, but I don't know many people who will agree with that. People will search out the easiest method to accomplish their goal. It happens. It's unfortunate, but also unpredictable by a dev in most cases until the masses figure out how to exploit. I blame the players and the devs to a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That is your opinion and you can be entitled to it, but I don't know many people who will agree with that. Well let me explain it, illum as a design is good, but players exchanging kills for valor, exlopiting a glitch in the system to spawn camp a graveyard etc this led to one side not playing as much as the other, this resulted in migrations from one side to the other dependent on the server to which side they migrated to. This led to the snowball effect of what happened within illum. Illum itself is no different in design to winter or the rvr areas that were in warhammer, the only difference was the players who instigated and probeled the problems to a state where illum was unplayable by one of the sides dependant to which side were the stronger in numbers for people who wanted to play it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 All competitors are. Then in your mind there will never be another MMO that is worth playing, as WoW is king and perfect to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Well let me explain it, illum as a design is good, but players exchanging kills for valor, exlopiting a glitch in the system to spawn camp a graveyard etc this led to one side not playing as much as the other, this resulted in migrations from one side to the other dependent on the server to which side they migrated to. This led to the snowball effect of what happened within illum. Illum itself is no different in design to winter or the rvr areas that were in warhammer, the only difference was the players who instigated and probeled the problems to a state where illum was unplayable by one of the sides dependant to which side were the stronger in numbers for people who wanted to play it correctly. A bad design allows exploits... thats part of a bad design! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Then in your mind there will never be another MMO that is worth playing, as WoW is king and perfect to you. Until a competitor comes out and bests it in one or more ways, just like WoW did when it came out! I'm an MMO fan, I would like nothing more than to see the next-gen evolution of this genre finally come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 A bad design allows exploits... thats part of a bad design! so in those standings winter and other open world pvp areas designed as such are to blame. No im sorry but the fact is that if anything is to blame is A) the players doing it as thus and B) the csr team not imposing very strict punishments to all and any who exploited illum in such a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 so in those standings winter and other open world pvp areas designed as such are to blame. No im sorry but the fact is that if anything is to blame is A) the players doing it as thus and B) the csr team not imposing very strict punishments to all and any who exploited illum in such a way. It all comes back to bad design. You can't blame the players for playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 A bad design allows exploits... thats part of a bad design! Players will always find ways to exploit a game. It's not always a bad design that is the cause. It could be a bug, it could be a hack, it could be any number of things. The point is, ALL MMOs are exploitable, hackable, etc. This topic isn't worth continuing. Back to SWTOR vs WoW. SWTOR is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrigan Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) The other supporting aspect of the story of Arthas being WAY more in depth than Malgus, is that Arthas not only has 2 whole expansions JUST FOR HIM (Warcraft 3, TFT and WotLK), he has a 300+ page hardcover about his life. http://www.wowwiki.com/Arthas:_Rise_of_the_Lich_KingI've read the book and it's one of the worse of the whole WoW book series. I enjoyed books like "Day of the Dragon" a lot, but "Arthas: Rise of the Lich King" was quite badly written. What could have been an epic story was made dead boring by a bad writer, the story was actually way better exposed in the game. Oh, and Malgus also has books written about him... one so far ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Deceived ), a second one is on the way for this year ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Annihilation ). Sorry, but even though I'm a big fan of WoW lore (I own books and comics too), if you're gonna compare it to SW lore, you will most likely lose. There has been way more material written about SW. Edited March 28, 2012 by Korrigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) It all comes back to bad design. You can't blame the players for playing the game. Im sorry are you seriously trying to defend people exchanging kills for valor ranking and the people who exploited a bug to spawn camp a graveyard they obviously knew had glitched in the previous patch as only playing the game. Edited March 28, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 It all comes back to bad design. You can't blame the players for playing the game. Can't blame hackers for stealing your account. Can't blame exploiters for intentionally exploiting. Can't blame spammers for selling credits. Can't blame me for this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've read the book and it's one of the worse of the whole WoW book series. I enjoyed books like "Day of the Dragon" a lot, but "Arthas: Rise of the Lich King" was quite badly written. What could have been an epic story was made dead boring by a bad writer, the story was actually way better exposed in the game. Oh, and Malgus also has books written about him... one so far ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Deceived ), a second one is on the way for this year ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Annihilation ). Sorry, but even though I'm a big fan of WoW lore (I own books and comics too), if you're gonna compare it to SW lore, you will most likely lose. There has been way more material written about SW. I agree completely. It was the worst WoW book out of them all. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyranf Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Blaming players for exploiting something is shooting the messenger, plain and simple. As a software developer myself, my goal is to keep users from doing things that I consider breaking and unsupported. Yes, at some point I just have to throw up my arms and say "Don't do that! It's unsupported!" but that's because there was a flaw in my design that I am unable to fix for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've read the book and it's one of the worse of the whole WoW book series. I enjoyed books like "Day of the Dragon" a lot, but "Arthas: Rise of the Lich King" was quite badly written. What could have been an epic story was made dead boring by a bad writer, the story was actually way better exposed in the game. Oh, and Malgus also has books written about him... one so far ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Deceived ), a second one is on the way for this year ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Annihilation ). Great! another book starring one of the most uninteresting people in the Star Wars universe! Awesome sauce! My god, it's going to feel so good when my Inquisitor sends that loser flying off the platform into his own oblivion. I should write a book about that myself! I'll call it: Star Wars: The Old Republic - It's Not the Fall That Hurts, It's the Sudden Stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Blaming players for exploiting something is shooting the messenger, plain and simple. As a software developer myself, my goal is to keep users from doing things that I consider breaking and unsupported. Yes, at some point I just have to throw up my arms and say "Don't do that! It's unsupported!" but that's because there was a flaw in my design that I am unable to fix for whatever reason. So as they fixed the exploit for the graveyard camping how exactly do you suggest that bioware stops one lot of players talking to another to arrange to meet to exchange kills for valor ? how is that the fault of a bad design of illum. Edited March 28, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts