SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[Esproc]

Again, you're totally beside the point. What does "developped for release" even mean? Of course all games are developped for release.

 

I was part in the WoW beta, just so you know, and not much changed between the beta and the actual release. Just like in the BC->BC live, WotlK->Live, Cata->Live. Blizzard does almost no changes from their beta stage to the live stage, mainly because... THEY PUSH FOR RELEASE.

 

WoW was developped to what it was now through patches for 80% of the mechanics. the 20% that's left is basically stuff that's been added (or removed) through expansion sets.

 

I don't care how long it takes to develop a game from 0 to release date, what counts in MMOs is how the developers patch things up after player feedback. You really are shooting yourself in the foot if you think you can make an MMO with a few beta testers and expect it to succeed without patches or changes.... OH WAIT, that's what all the wow fanbois are saying about SWTOR, because it wasn't perfect on release, it must suck! Yikes! Thank god they weren't around in 2004, because WoW sucked so bad I actually only came back when BC was released.

 

So, were you with the guilds that were EXPLOITING like Paragon?

 

Hard to say you/those guilds would push for fixes that they could use to exploit the game, as was proven. And an 8 day slap on the paw (Pandas) is nothing to the perma-ban that guy got for finding the "exploitable" Saronite bombs on LK by pure happenstance.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Esproc

[its_them]

Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001

 

So thats atleast 10 years.

 

Anyway pointless argument.

[Azzras]

So, were you with the guilds that were EXPLOITING like Paragon?

 

Hard to say you/those guilds would push for fixes that they could use to exploit the game, as was proven. And an 8 day slap on the paw (Pandas) is nothing to the perma-ban that guy got for finding the "exploitable" Saronite bombs on LK by pure happenstance.

 

But, But, WoW is infallible. They don't nor have they ever had game breaking bugs/exploits. It's common knowledge on these forums.

 

/sarcasm

[Azzras]

Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001

 

So thats atleast 10 years.

 

Anyway pointless argument.

 

Now I'm worried...we both agree on something.

 

[Shingara]

Now I'm worried...we both agree on something.

 

 

make that 3 of us

[Varghjerta]

I would say that WoW went from a diner that had steak and wine and fish but aswell had alot of faster cooking foods as hot dogs burgers and stuff basicly something for everyone.

 

But suddenly realised that the money was in fast food so they just did the perfectly fast food restaurant, but they still lying about trying to serve steak and be a diner but thanks to being fast food they have aswell let go off the Chefs that used to cook the steaks.

Nothing wrong with that but then we have that VS Bioware.

As it stands now without having convinience as Dual specc X server LFG Bioware is now it is not as good a diner as Blizz was

but it still tastes pretty damn good thanks to other stuff on the menu

But the more they will be trying to be Blizz by kicking the chef and removing the steaks the more it will become just a bad copy of Blizz and doing the same meny as Blizz already have served to death

Edited March 27, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Deathstingg]

Blizzard got what? To dumb down their game more and more each new expansion? Have you seen character customization in Pandaria? 6 Talents!!!

Thank you, I take SW:TOR with its complete talent trees anytime of the day. I've played WoW for over 7 years, but the route Blizzard is taking to cater to the dumb and dumber broke the deal for me.

 

My 2 cents to this! Talking about talent and specs i'm not happy at all with the road blizz devs are following talent wise, i mean in vanilla (and tbc) you could play a hybrid spec like combat dagger rogue, the world-wide famous PoM-Pyro mage or SM-Ruin Warlock, later they started not liking hybrid specs and what do you have in cata? Locked skill trees where you get core skills by chosing a tree at lv10 and you MUST spend 31+ points in that talent tree before being able to put remaining talents in other trees...

That being said we had GC (lead system developer) coming out in MoP conference and saying

"All players use the same build, we don't want cookie-cutter builds"

SERIOUSLY??? You remove hybrid specs at all and then you complain about all players using the same build??

Then he introduces new 6 talent points system in wich (from a rogue pov) there are some tiers in wich you have to chose the less sh***y talent and many other talents are pretty useless when comes to raiding (i can hardly see a boss being snared stunned cc'ed)...

So yeah i'm not very happy about this new talent system so yes old-wow swtor talent system is the way imho.

[Shingara]

I would say that WoW went from a diner that had steak and wine and fish but aswell had alot of faster cooking foods as hot dogs burgers and stuff basicly something for everyone.

 

But suddenly realised that the money was in fast food so they just did the perfectly fasfood restaurant, but they still lying abouttrying to serve steak and be a diner but thanks to being fast food they have aswell let go off the Chefs that used to cook the steaks.

Nothing wrong with that but then we have the VS Bioware.

As it stands now without having convinience as Dual specc X server LFG Bioware is now it is not as good a diner as Blizz was but it still tastes pretty damn good

But the more they will be trying to be Blizz by kicking the chef and removing the steaks the more it will become just a bad copy of Blizz

 

I have no idea what you just said but im now hungry.

[mattpopper]

Its apples and oranges people! I just pray BW does not listen to all the 12 year olds that cant handle end game content so they make it just spank and tank. S&T = 0 skill and does not teach you how to play your toon.

[Offended]

Original:Quote:

Originally Posted by Korrigan

Blizzard got what? To dumb down their game more and more each new expansion? Have you seen character customization in Pandaria? 6 Talents!!!

Thank you, I take SW:TOR with its complete talent trees anytime of the day. I've played WoW for over 7 years, but the route Blizzard is taking to cater to the dumb and dumber broke the deal for me.

 

[/color]

 

 

OK, so the ONLY time you think that a tree spec is useful is when YOU get a new ABILITY, not some mitigation.

 

Blizzard nerfed the trees to such dumb levels there were No CHOICES for what to spec in any more. There used to be choices but people like you, yes YOU, couldn't think them through. And the reason I say you, is the same reason I cut off your post, At A PRE-BUILD tell Me How To Spec Model So I Know (or may think I/they can/do) How To Spec.

 

That's why Blizzard decided to Make the Tree Choices for everyone and give you a worthless shrub of a joke. Blizzard did the tree (and soon to be shrub) Wrong.

 

So long as people build by others specs, can't think for themselves, and demand tools to show them how to play the class/es they chose, how can I, or any reasonable person, take you seriously.

 

Blizzard Failed in their allowance of tools to cater those who look up specs to decide for them what they should create (making the character their own) and then rely on tools to continue the process.

 

Hopefully BW sees this and does not open the bottle as much as Blizzard and make the same mistake as Blizzard did, as quoted by one of Blizzards Devs on the "tools" "We can't get the Djinn back in the bottle".

 

 

In Warcraft, I was one of those guys that would spend a good 2-3 hours a day trying new specs out, even after they changed the trees the first time. Before dual spec, I think on my paladin had spent roughly 5k on respecs (3-4 times a week) and I NEVER respec'd to pvp, tank or DPS. I was a healer at the end of BC and through wrath (played a mage before that). When dual spec came out I was a tank/healer and the cycle started over again.

 

I raided.

 

In warcraft, in the guild I am in, we liked to be reasonably progressed. we did the content first, before any one else on the realm, in some cases we were months ahead of the 2nd best guild. We used recount and worldoflogs to improve our play, not to spread our epeen around (Even though it didnt hurt). We often varied slightly from the de-facto EJ spec because thats what you had to do, if you wanted to be the best. If you have ever payed attention to the top, top characters in the world they don't use standard cookie cutter builds either. They have unique choices that they needed as a raid.

 

I never had a problem with spending 1-2pts in useless talents to get the skill(s) we needed to defeat an encounter first (usually top 100 US, if not world).

 

Eventually though, with every little class balance, tweak or ability change, you had to go through your whole process of respecing, testing raiding with poor spec choices just to see how it worked, just to come back and do it again at the next minor patch when they decided the previous change was unbalanced and changed it again.

 

When they created talents that began to move away from the cookie cutter DPS/Tank/healer optimum, you gained WAY more choices in how to play your class. Instead of spec's leaving you 1 extra point to put some where, you all of a sudden had 9. Those 9 extra points didn't make or break your ability to raid effectively, but it still lead to the cookie cutter problem.

 

Yes, some people liked figuring out the cookie cutter builds. Look at EJ and you can see threads with thousands of posts where people debate the effectiveness of 1pt in crit v.s. 1 pt some where else. I've participated in those posts along with members of my guild and helped shaped the correct spec, rotations, buffs, everything.

 

But in the end all that really lead to was this elitist, epeen flaunting recount in /trade chat after a raid. You know, all the things that the star wars community is apparently fed up with.

 

You want to get rid of people being elitist jerks, but you want all the tools to continue being elitist jerks.

 

I can't wait for 1.2 to be released and all the real theorycrafters come out and start playing star wars and completely blow every ones currently conceived notion that their spec's, rotations and playstyle are optimal. We'll have the same old elitist mentality when it comes to guild recruitment, flashpoints and operatives.

[Offended]

I have no idea what you just said but im now hungry.

 

I think he's saying it's time for Warcraft to be on Kitchen Nightmares?

[Katahn]

I like the story, the fully voiced and interactive cut scenes, and I love the setting. So I am playing this game.

 

Nothing against WoW, but I was beyond bored with it and had quit playing it long before SWTOR came out. I tried a few different games like Runes of Magic and Allods and just didn't really enjoy them for a variety of reasons.

 

Sure it would be nice for SWTOR to have a group finder tool, but honestly I saw what a cross-server one did to WoW and pray it will never be cross-server here. I just made a point of befriending every single healer I could (I play a tank) and so if I want to run a FP I open up my friends list and ask my healer buddies - pugging a DPS or two is rarely a challenge.

 

I don't really need a group finder anymore, not on my main anyway. It would be nice to have one that is single-server only I think. Something that removes the tedium of group finding but still allows me to build that friends list and meet people who might want me in their guild (or vice versa). You just don't get that with WoW or Rift's finders.

[Azzras]

I like the story, the fully voiced and interactive cut scenes, and I love the setting. So I am playing this game.

 

Nothing against WoW, but I was beyond bored with it and had quit playing it long before SWTOR came out. I tried a few different games like Runes of Magic and Allods and just didn't really enjoy them for a variety of reasons.

 

Sure it would be nice for SWTOR to have a group finder tool, but honestly I saw what a cross-server one did to WoW and pray it will never be cross-server here. I just made a point of befriending every single healer I could (I play a tank) and so if I want to run a FP I open up my friends list and ask my healer buddies - pugging a DPS or two is rarely a challenge.

 

I don't really need a group finder anymore, not on my main anyway. It would be nice to have one that is single-server only I think. Something that removes the tedium of group finding but still allows me to build that friends list and meet people who might want me in their guild (or vice versa). You just don't get that with WoW or Rift's finders.

 

I think there is one in the works.

 

First it will look for people on your server, if a group cannot be formed from your server then it will look for players on different servers to fill the group.

[Darth_Bond]

I think there is one in the works.

 

First it will look for people on your server, if a group cannot be formed from your server then it will look for players on different servers to fill the group.

 

I call BS on the 'if it cant find a group on your server it will find people from different servers'

[Azzras]

I call BS on the 'if it cant find a group on your server it will find people from different servers'

 

His name is Bond, Darth Bond.

 

I remember reading it somewhere, but time will ultimately tell.

[Lethality]

What the hell are you talking about?

 

I'm not comparing WoW launch to SWTOR launch.

 

I asked what NEW game has Blizzard released in the last 5 years that's not an almost complete rehash.

 

No one can answer that question.

 

And FYI:

 

The now WoW is dropping subs like Niagara Falls drops water. (Sorry, the best analogy I could come up with...lol)

 

What does that have to do with anything, much less this thread? But I'll answer it for you: The same number of new games BioWare has come out with in the art 5 years.

 

And FYI - WoW can drop another 5 million subscribers and it will still have more than this game will ever have. Sorry, harsh reality. Doesn't mean it's a terrible game, but it does mean it doesn't appeal as much.

[Shingara]

What does that have to do with anything, much less this thread? But I'll answer it for you: The same number of new games BioWare has come out with in the art 5 years.

 

And FYI - WoW can drop another 5 million subscribers and it will still have more than this game will ever have. Sorry, harsh reality. Doesn't mean it's a terrible game, but it does mean it doesn't appeal as much.

 

Can i have next weeks lottery numbers and the numbers that will come out on the euro lottery ?

[Katahn]

I think there is one in the works.

 

First it will look for people on your server, if a group cannot be formed from your server then it will look for players on different servers to fill the group.

 

The last thing I read was a single-server tool was coming but that no cross-server one was planned for any time in the near future. The specific comment was that the devs believe such a cross-server functionality for PvE grouping was detrimental to the community and I would (based on what consequences I've seen in Rift and WoW) tend to agree.

[Azzras]

The last thing I read was a single-server tool was coming but that no cross-server one was planned for any time in the near future. The specific comment was that the devs believe such a cross-server functionality for PvE grouping was detrimental to the community and I would (based on what consequences I've seen in Rift and WoW) tend to agree.

 

It could have been for Warzones that I read it.

 

My memory isn't what it use to be.

[Katahn]

It could have been for Warzones that I read it.

 

My memory isn't what it use to be.

 

Mine neither but I think you're right about warzone matching - I do recall that being cross-server as part of allowing us to select specific warzones and to allow greater bracketing of matches.

[Azumio]

I have a strong feeling that there might be a Bioware/Blizzard confusion going on, or I missed the hidden message.

 

He's saying Bioware rehashed content, I think.

 

I can't really agree.

 

Mass Effect the series was actually obliterated as a series because they didn't rehash the first game.

 

The original story was so much better than the crap we got. I knew it was coming with ME2 though. That game was all flash, no substance.

 

The fact they took Drew off ME was a travesty, Mac Walters is a terrible writer. His games suck (ME2, ME3) and his comics suck.

 

Yeah, I'm still kinda pissed about what happened to the Mass Effect franchise. It was a great, great start to what could have been an amazing series, and they completely re-wrote it into a garbage franchise.

 

Sigh.

[WildbloodX]

Can i have next weeks lottery numbers and the numbers that will come out on the euro lottery ?

 

12345 mega - 6

[mindriot]

To be honest I don't understand their reluctance to introduce cross server LFG.

SWTOR community was stillborn, it was never alive and is never going to get better than it is now.

If they don't introduce LFG tool soon, community will still be dead, but they'll just piss more people off.

 

The cross server lfg destroyed wow...that's my opinion, but that's the way I feel about it. It bred the worst gaming community in existence. Players weren't accountable anymore, for gear, skill, patience, or Respec for other players. Wotlk was the end of the niche market that was the mmo before it, it has become a content vending machine. If Swtor goes the way of lfg server wide, that's fine with me...but giving in to wows model of get it quick, don't sweat the community is a bad move. While I do think that they def need to improve the way you get groups, I think cross server is the death nail. Maybe mmo's are just not for me anymore, maybe the days of tight nit communities is dead. I blame blizzard for it. I blame blizzard for ruining what used to be the best gaming communities around.

 

As far as Swtor having to compete with the wow of today, I hope Swtor takes the other path and be the alternative to 15 yr olds with add. I can dream.

[Shingara]

12345 mega - 6

 

lol, ye those have as much right to be true as the guy i quoted, guessing is pure guessing + putting a FYI at the front of it like fact is just pure lolbat.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Shingara

[Andryah]

I think there is one in the works.

 

First it will look for people on your server, if a group cannot be formed from your server then it will look for players on different servers to fill the group.

 

Cross Server PvP is going to follow this mechanic.

 

So far, they have not said anything specific about cross server LFG for PvE that I am aware of. It's server LFG only for PvE for now. All they said was that they would revisit the question in the future.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Andryah