SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[Touchbass]

Don't bother with Andryah, I've basically point blank proved him/her at wrong at least twice and they never respond.

 

Yeah, the fanboy is big in him the galactic white knight

[DevonLoy]

Fair point; but really to what extent is it the consumers' duty to care about the business workings?

 

Not much, but it seems every other opinion on here, explains that WoW is the "business leader" or "business standard", other than that everyone should have some knowledge of the business proportion of all products they purchase.

[noodlehaus]

Not much, but it seems every other opinion on here, explains that WoW is the "business leader" or "business standard", other than that everyone should have some knowledge of the business proportion of all products they purchase.

 

it still stands though that how the business is run underneath and all the complexities behind the curtains is irrelevant to the subscribers. knowing the business decisions and complexities behind the game doesn't make the game any better, nor does it change the plain fact that the other game has more subscribers and features.

 

wow having the most subscribers and the most profits reported for any MMO makes it the business leader. and since they're the leader, it's the bar that they set that becomes the standard, or at least makes them the team to beat/imitate/copy/improve on.

Edited March 27, 2012 by noodlehaus

[DevonLoy]

it still stands though that how the business is run underneath and all the complexities behind the curtains is irrelevant to the subscribers. knowing the business decisions and complexities behind the game doesn't make the game any better, nor does it change the plain fact that the other game has more subscribers and features.

 

wow having the most subscribers and the most profits reported for any MMO makes it the business leader. and since they're the leader, it's the bar that they set that becomes the standard, or at least makes them the team to beat/imitate/copy/improve on.

 

I never said it made the game any better, people keep taking that one part of my post (which is pretty long) and that was like 1 sentence I just used to counteract all the people already talking about business, and people should understand it, because the business or "politics behind every product or service you pay for, effects everything done, or what can or willl be done in the future.

[Vyrion]

I always love reading posts to the effect of "never played WoW because it sucks". Or the people that quit after level 10 because it was "boring". It's like watching people step on a rake and just grin at it, sad but also very amusing.

 

Almost as much fun as the people demanding "documentation" that there is a de facto standard in such a well established and lucrative area of gaming. Luckily the beauty of economics is that it doesn't give a wamprat's bullseye about "documentation" and a game lacking in ease of use features like bar/timer mods, threat meters, a useful combat log of any sort, a group finder that actually does something, etc will not last too long once people start getting frustrated and move on or back as it were.

 

What's sad is that I actually want this game to succeed, I have been following it for a long time, and I loved both KOTOR games (I know the second wasn't BW) and I think they mostly got the aesthetics and feel of much of TOR spot on, but as it stands it just feels so clunky as an actual game. Some of that klunkiness is charming in a nostalgic way but a lot is just annoying, and to the people that haven't been gaming long enough to feel the nostalgia I'm guessing it's just klunky, which again, won't be good for sub retention once the newness wears off.

[RabidPopcorn]

I never said it made the game any better, people keep taking that one part of my post (which is pretty long) and that was like 1 sentence I just used to counteract all the people already talking about business, and people should understand it, because the business or "politics behind every product or service you pay for, effects everything done, or what can or willl be done in the future.

 

I understand your position and I agree that we would all benefit from knowing how things work behind the scenes (or at least fooled into believing that we know how it works for a fact merely because it's the general consensus).

 

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make has been raised so many times in the forums: Even if we established the fact that we know the 'business' behind things, it doesn't diminish our the legitimacy of our entitlement to expect certain standards from a product.

[Nitewolfe]

I think the point almost everyone in this forum is missing is the fact that, YOUR NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO THINKS LIKE THIS, the developers are not made up of a bunch of sheltered idiots with the internet turned off.

 

A lot of them are gamers like us, and most of them have probably played WoW and other MMO's, they know whats missing, they know whats not.

 

They have thought these things before launch and after, it's their job to know these things, but it is also their job to take into account every other opinion or fact on "EVERY" topic in development.

 

Cross server LFG's, raid logs, etc.. Take a lot to develop. The thing a lot of people are not taking to account with these is.

 

Yes WoW has them, TOR does not, they were successful in WoW, they might be successful in TOR, but as I said before they are not "easy" to implement, and since WoW practically invented these things, however long after there launch, It's almost impossible to tell how much it took them to implement them.

 

Especially since WoW had a different engine, and wasn't as "technologically advanced" as TORs.

 

People allways make the argument that TOR took XXX$ to develop, but compared to what is that a bad price. I'm not sure what WoWs development price was, but I know it was much lower. But WoW has had 10 years of development to impliment everything, and if you add in all of that time into cost, it gets a bit closer.

 

Now if you take into account Bio-Ware having to produce the game, develop it, pay EA, pay Lucas Arts, pay their voice actors and significantly large teams, thats a lot.

 

But then if you add in all the extra development it would have taken to add in everything some people wanted, it would have looked ridiculous in the eyes of any buisness proffesional trying to make money of this project.

 

I just want to point out that Bioware doesnt pay anything here.

Bioware is owning by EA! EA is the one that writes the checks out to everyone.

People seem to think the Bioware is just in partnership with EA. It is not! EA flat out owns Bioware.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Nitewolfe

[DevonLoy]

I just want to point out that Bioware doesnt pay anything here.

Bioware is owning by EA! EA is the one that writes the checks out to everyone.

People seem to think the Bioware is just in partnership with EA. It is not! EA flat out owns Bioware.

 

Exactly BioWare is a subsidiary to EA but is its own company, EA does not produce or develop the game, they simply gain profits from BioWare. I used the term "pay" as more of a general term, meaning, make these people money.

[Esproc]

OK: SWTOR vs WoW: Blizzard gets it....

 

Blizzard is now giving away free 80's, no leveling required.

 

So all games must now give you a character that is 94 - 95 % complete of max level.

WoW did I do it all wrong, but Blizzard gets it, oh no, people get it, a free 80.

Blizzard also "can't get the Djinn back in the bottle" allowing their subscribers to (not only get free level 80's) have all the Bells and Whistles possible (That's the Djinn that the Blizz dev was quoted).

 

So go, head on over and you too can get your free level 80 and all your toys to play with it, no leveling, no experience, no mind, no ability needed, because they have the tools for you.

 

Thank You, Have a Nice Day.

This person is in no way affiliated with Blizzard Company, products, or affiliates. This person is not sponsoring or trying to force the use of any products that may have been mentioned, or other products would surely have been mentioned in this stead.

[RabidPopcorn]

OK: SWTOR vs WoW: Blizzard gets it....

 

Blizzard is now giving away free 80's, no leveling required.

 

So all games must now give you a character that is 94 - 95 % complete of max level.

WoW did I do it all wrong, but Blizzard gets it, oh no, people get it, a free 80.

Blizzard also "can't get the Djinn back in the bottle" allowing their subscribers to (not only get free level 80's) have all the Bells and Whistles possible (That's the Djinn that the Blizz dev was quoted).

 

So go, head on over and you too can get your free level 80 and all your toys to play with it, no leveling, no experience, no mind, no ability needed, because they have the tools for you.

 

Thank You, Have a Nice Day.

This person is in no way affiliated with Blizzard Company, products, or affiliates. This person is not sponsoring or trying to force the use of any products that may have been mentioned, or other products would surely have been mentioned in this stead.

 

Hmm... the implied premise is that the 'bells and whistles' in WoW are for the purpose of reducing the amount of 'skill' required to play the game.

 

Query whether 'bells and whistles' serve any other purpose.

[QuiJonPed]

and combat log...

 

lol and a group finder, raid finder, dungeon finder

 

It doesn't matter if it is pointy hatted failness, the underlying features it offers in terms of functionality and th whole human computer interaction are currently superior to ToR.

Edited March 27, 2012 by QuiJonPed

[Lheim]

After reading the last ten pages of this thread, I've come to the conclusion that the forum moderators have a strategy of leaving certain threads open as a means of containment.. sorta like those little electric boxes the ghostbusters used to use.

 

Ten pages of thread, not a single useful post - just people blasting blind opinion back and forth in each other's face, not listening to a word or granting any validity to anybody but themselves.

 

But c'mon, Devs. At the very least you could come up with a.. special icon, or something, to let us normal folks know that a certain thread is your designated troll motel.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Lheim

[Sarfux]

Alright..alright..

 

There seems to be moaning now that there is no lfg, lfd, or any of those tools in the game.

 

Say 1.5 hits.. EVERYTHING comes available. Everything is now in the game that every mmo had before tor. I'm talking... a ton of stuff that EVERY SINGLE mmo has. I'm talking cross server lfg, lfd, everything like that...just everything mmo players could want and THEN SOME.

 

What would people moan about then you think?

[RabidPopcorn]

Alright..alright..

 

There seems to be moaning now that there is no lfg, lfd, or any of those tools in the game.

 

Say 1.5 hits.. EVERYTHING comes available. Everything is now in the game that every mmo had before tor. I'm talking... a ton of stuff that EVERY SINGLE mmo has. I'm talking cross server lfg, lfd, everything like that...just everything mmo players could want and THEN SOME.

 

What would people moan about then you think?

 

Umm... maybe we would moan about having too much of 'everything'?

 

Jokes aside, the whole point of this thread was to express our views on the fact that SWTOR failed to achieve parity in features with that other MMO; is that so wrong?

[NevesNET]

... this entire topic is mute, GW2 will close BOTH of these games down, if you have played the beta, you know what I'm talking about ...

[RabidPopcorn]

... this entire topic is mute, GW2 will close BOTH of these games down, if you have played the beta, you know what I'm talking about ...

 

Not to flame or anything but I'm really curious: is there anything that SWTOR offers that GW2 wouldn't have? Similarly, what will GW2 offer that SWTOR doesn't have? (In general terms)

Really impt questions imo, because we are after all paying $15/month for SWTOR, surely it must have an edge over a non-subscription game?

[NevesNET]

Not to flame or anything but I'm really curious: is there anything that SWTOR offers that GW2 wouldn't have? Similarly, what will GW2 offer that SWTOR doesn't have? (In general terms)

Really impt questions imo, because we are after all paying $15/month for SWTOR, surely it must have an edge over a non-subscription game?

 

I can't get into specifics due to NDA; but, I can tell you that GW2 is SILKY smooth in WvWvW with 100+ toons on screen. Try going to Ilum with 30 people and get back to me... it REWARDS both players for helping kill a mob when you find someone on map... there is no gear treadmill... it has infinitely more guild options than those even planed for TOR... etc, etc

[Scorpid]

I res'd my WoW account, it has almost been a year ago that i have quit the game. Brought my account back even got a free level 80 and well i played for about 10 mins and logged out.

 

I started WoW about a week after BC came out so i played it for a long time. I loved the game and i still have a lot of respect for the game as its the longest played MMO i have played. But the graphics is what makes me turn away from WoW now. The game itself is solid even tho it spoon feeds every.

[Korrigan]

Blizzard got what? To dumb down their game more and more each new expansion? Have you seen character customization in Pandaria? 6 Talents!!!

Thank you, I take SW:TOR with its complete talent trees anytime of the day. I've played WoW for over 7 years, but the route Blizzard is taking to cater to the dumb and dumber broke the deal for me.

And then, there will be GW2, which doesn't have a monthly fee, so I can play it along SW:TOR for when I need my dose of sword and sorcery

[Offended]

Blizzard got what? To dumb down their game more and more each new expansion? Have you seen character customization in Pandaria? 6 Talents!!!

Thank you, I take SW:TOR with its complete talent trees anytime of the day. I've played WoW for over 7 years, but the route Blizzard is taking to cater to the dumb and dumber broke the deal for me.

 

 

I played Warcraft until about a month before star wars was released and I started playing the beta. I didn't get very far in it. tried each of the classes and was working a lot, didn't really past lvl 10 on any of them.

 

Then the release came and work was slow so i got to level my Sith Inquisitor. so here lvl 10 comes and i get to chose my advanced class/spec and i look at the talent tree.

 

The first tier talents were nearly useless. I was so disappointed in them. I leveled 3-4 lvls before applying talents because reducing 1% dmg to an ability that only did 300-400dmg was pretty useless. As i went up the madness tree I began to realize that the design choices blizzard made with the talent tree's was exactly right. You want your talent choices to mean something. to have a meaningful impact on your play style or characters abilities. Spending 1 talent to gain 1% dmg reduction is pretty boring and offers nothing to your character growth.

 

The more i moved up the maddness and lightning trees, the more I felt like the choices I had were useless. The only time you actually noticed a talent choice is if it gave you a new ability or proc. Blizzard, after 4-5 years, for WotLK finally noticed that there were dozens of talents that only very few people would pick, because they were completely useless.

 

Lets look at a supposed ideal sith sorc maddness pve build (The pvp build is nearly identical except for swapping 2 second tier talents)

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZf0MZcrdRsMkrfz.1

 

3pts in the corruption tree for 3% +crit. Why not get rid of all the +crit and either add that to your base character or tune raids so you don't need to rely on that talent.

 

7pts in Lightning Reduce force consumption by 9%. Really 9? Then you have increase force by 100. Why even have these as talents? will there ever be a time when you WONT pick these two? Well I'm sure there is if you're a retard. Is it that hard to just change ability costs themselves? 6seconds to a dot? A worth while talent i guess.

 

31pts in Madness.

The supposed "ideal" pve talent tree spends 1pt in defiance, to reduce damage by 1%. really? Do i need to elaborate here? This is just a filler point to get to the next tier.

 

Lingering Nightmares, 2 pts adds 2 seconds to your crushing darkness. Seems great since it seems like it would add an additional 350dmg per second, but without combat log we can't know for sure. If it doesn't (couldn't imagine it being like this) its actually a DPS loss.

 

Parasitism. Really, 2pts for 1% of your health restored, from Crits on Dots. Well it would make lingering nightmare slightly more useful.

 

2pts for Will of the Sith. Increases willpower by 3%/6%. Why not just adjust what willpower does at the baseline and be done with it.

 

2pts for Calcify to increase dmg done by force lightning. Every dps build is going to have this, why make it a talent. Why make a talent that intentionally forces some one to gimp themselves if they don't include it. Oh sure you can say "omg but makes healer POERFUL!" but there are far better ways to separate a healer from caster dps.

 

So far that's 19 points that are spent in a 7/3/31 madness pve/pvp build. These talents aren't choices to make your character "funner" to play or offer new abilities. They're filler talents and nothing else.

 

Large tree's also led to some specs being superior in raids and others in pvp (mage comes to mind) and having to balance numbers around minor changes such as whether or not you would bring a frost mage or an arcane mage, or how buffs worked with talent choices, etc. The difference between a frost mage and a fire mage in BC and wrath was HUGE.

 

They aso lead directly in to the cookie cutter builds, something that star wars should have learned if they wanted to get rid of the "elitism". I bet every one here has looked at a talent build or has had a talent build where some one made fun of that person for choosing what they did.

 

Blizzard decided that having 2pt talents that increased your dmg reduction by 7.5/15% just wasn't exciting or fun anymore and many people agree with that.

 

 

Also, what exactly is dumbed down by the character creation process?

[Offended]

Not to flame or anything but I'm really curious: is there anything that SWTOR offers that GW2 wouldn't have? Similarly, what will GW2 offer that SWTOR doesn't have? (In general terms)

Really impt questions imo, because we are after all paying $15/month for SWTOR, surely it must have an edge over a non-subscription game?

 

GW2 takes the absolute best parts of warcraft, largely being the combat and talent systems, and answers every question of "why do we need to accept quests" to "why not make it so that if you see a guy killing boars, you can join in and get some credit for helping also".

 

It's pretty spectacular.

 

this is 20 minutes, but you can't get a better description than this one.

http://blip.tv/bff-report/bff-report-ep-100-guild-wars-2-5969960

[netskink]

Hi,

 

I play on a small server. Its easy to spot jerks and even easier to make pals. I have no need for a LFG tool. Only a jerk needs a LFG tool because they can not make friends or associates along the way.

 

John

[Glorthox]

With all the console games out there that kids are playing, why in the world is this game T for teen seriously? All the war games out with a M for mature, why in the world can we not have some kind of blood shed, in the star wars movies there has been decaps, run throughs, hand slices, and droid destruction. I don't understand why we dont have a visual with this kind of thing, it isnt that big of a deal to impliment. I just went a lightsaber to feel like a lightsaber instead of a futurama bashing club I agree with the LFG tool, this game needs one, so tedious searching a group that usually never happens and the ones that do happen after the course of usually about an hour.

 

 

As far as lame WOW goes, it will fail eventually because panda bears and pokemon just really does suck!!

[Tadshackles]

How does this thread stay open but my Angry Birds > SWTOR thread gets closed in 2 minutes!

 

 

/ANGERFACE

[its_them]

WOW is a far superior game.

 

Im even willing to go back to it when they introduce pandas ffs.

 

I bet I will enjoy it even though I have no love of panda's.

 

The main reason that BW can not compete with Blizz is Blizz doesnt answer to EA therefore can concentrate on developing the game the way they want it.

 

And not give us some blatantly rushed game because EA says "It must be ready by this date"