SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[RabidPopcorn]

You said you dont play RPG's, so many RPG like storytelling isnt for you. Most of my friends who where into RPG's but not mmo's are absolutely in love with this game. Alot of my friends who where into pen and paper rpgs and not really even into many Video games love this game.

 

This game is not without its faults, but the sheer amount of story driven content it has is insane. KOTOR was a pretty massive game that you could play through multiple times with different results, this game is essentially 12 kotors put into an mmo setting.

 

Also no developer would ever put this much content into a game that didnt charge a monthly perscription so people saying that , this should have just been a single player game etc. It would have never happened , certainly not on the scale they did it. It would be a miniscule game compared to swtor. IMO this game is worth subscribing for the Leveling content alone, each class has 2 seperate forms of completely different dialogue (male and female) race makes a difference in what dialogue you see light and dark side shape the direction of your story (sure the story follows a fairly linear path but the details involved in your story can change drastically depending on decisions yoou make, gender you chose , race you play. You can even get different outcomes going dark/lightside twice with the multiple dark/ lightside options in alot of the dialogue)

 

And you will probably only even experience just over half the content of your respective faction the first time through, with all the bonus series , planets, side quest chains etc. Bonus series have some of the best storylines in the game IMO. I havent even mentioned that playing the opposing faction will result in an entirely different experience with none of the same quests (its pretty much the same in wow as well, but who actually reads the quests anyways? lol) but that should be obvious. On my first 50 while leveling i didnt pvp once i did no flashpoint more than once and i skipped a few, i did maybe only 1/2 to 1/3 of the heroics on each planet that i completed and still at the end i hadnt done any non class quests on correllia quesh, voss and didnt complete a few other planets as well. I hadnt done bonus series( which are basically like full leveling zones, as they take you to new quest hubs that give you missions that are related to the bonus series as well as missions that arent, and usualy quite a few heroics as well) on Nar shadaa, Alderaan, Hoth, Voss (i only did the first one but their are three (yes three) seperate bonus series on voss doing all of them will take you beyond 50, after i completed the first one i dinged 50) and i only did balmorra bonus series 1 but not 2.

 

so much content in this game (for leveling) 0.o. End game certainly has its problems but this is already a wall of text so im not going to get into it.

 

I think you're missing part of the point in my post (u stopped reading at the part where I said i don't play much rpgs huh); my point was SWTOR's story isn't that great compared to many rpgs out there. (And fyi, I've done bonus series for all planets except Hoth, Correlia, Ilum, Voss)

 

Did you really think that each individual class story in SWTOR could even make it into a 500 page novel? Even if we disregard that point, SWTOR's class story doesn't even strike an emotional chord with the player (except for a few moments).

[NasherUK]

Unlike WoW, where every class has a strength or weakness against multiple classes and strategies, which usually results in people calling hacks, dev favoritism or some other excuse to cover up the fact that the person who beat them either got lucky or knew enough about his class to not die outright. If your class is weak against someone, find their class killer and work with them.

 

WoW PvP would be balanced if everyone would just stop being a Batman and start being a Justice League.

 

But that just isn't the case, some classes will almost never kill certain other classes no matter how good the player is. Some specs and talents are also completely useless.

 

The only real strategy to wow pvp is to have 1 of every class, so WHEN blizzard overnerf/overbuff one a few months down the line you can easily switch.

Edited March 25, 2012 by NasherUK

[kmontyw]

WoW has better, more responsive combat.

 

Friend gave me a 7 day pass and free 80, the combat is just so much better after playing SWTOR for so long.

 

I still prefer SWTOR, I just wish the combat was smoother.

 

Another thing that annoys me is the amount of dead servers and Biowares silence over it, free transfers/merges is a must.

 

And yet WoW felt - and still feels - laggy when compared to the father of them all EverQuest because EQ isn't hooking damage and effect to combat animations. You gain one thing (realism and visual context) and you lose another (responsiveness).

 

Not defending SWTOR combat which I agree is lacklustre, just knocking down the idea that WoW is some sort of universal standard. It isn't, and never was. During WoW beta I would jump back into EQ and revel in the responsiveness, and I still miss it. Modern games have to solve this issue, and WoW hasn't. Using WoW as a responsiveness standard just telegraphs a lack of experience with MMOs. SWTOR took a few steps backwards in this area, and despite the PR rhetoric, I really believe that's a function of their inferior engine and so is going to be all but impossible to fix.

Edited March 25, 2012 by kmontyw

[aznthecapn]

WoW has 1 raid, 3 dungeons, cap of 25 dailys what else but nonsensical crap is there to do?

 

WoW has all of its preexisting content including raids and dungeons since 4.0. Most of what you call "nonsensical crap" is stuff many other enjoy doing. Some of it I do, some I don't. Doesn't mean its "crap". Just means its not for me. Sounds like it isn't the game for you.

[Kozor]

 

Also don't under estimate the power of starwars fanboyism. Blizzard fanboyism is an ant compared to the elephant that is starwars fanboyism. They could change abosolutely nothing and still make a profit from the die hard starwars supporters. WoW had to fight to earn and keep it's player base, ToR's is a given, regardless of good/poor quality.

 

 

This is such a BS, I like Star Wars a lot (Old Trilogy and SOME EU stuff) and absolutely despise Bioware because they didn't make a great game since Baldur's Gate 2 (it's a different crew now anyway). KOTOR wasn't bad but the writing (especially dialogues) was terrible, biodrones will disagree since they got a romance and happy ending and that's all those sad individuals need.

 

So even though I'm a SW fan I still believe TOR is a disgrace to MMOs and Star Wars in general. My subscription runs out in 4 days and I'm never coming back, I assure you (I didn't play TOR for a long time anyway). If anything Star Wars fans feel offended by this game (which utterly fails at delivering a good Star Wars setting, even SWG was miles ahead of what we got).

Edited March 25, 2012 by Kozor

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I honestly wonder if any game could ever be good enough to convince some of the wow fanboys to give up the characters they have years of play time on.

 

Only one.

 

The Elder Scrolls Online.

 

*angelic monk voices sing in the background*

 

It was foretold in the Elder Scroll that one day the lands of Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Morrowind and the others would open their borders to the masses. Adventurers would travel together and unlock the secrets of the world and discover hidden treasures and lost cities. They even spoke of mighty battles, brother against brother, Almer against Dunmer, Khajiit against Argonian and no one would cry because that war would be balanced and fair. Where a man could raid the Dwemer catacombs and find coffers of gold and mystical items fit for twenty five kings.

 

So sayth the Scrolls.....

[Offended]

WoW has all of its preexisting content including raids and dungeons since 4.0. Most of what you call "nonsensical crap" is stuff many other enjoy doing. Some of it I do, some I don't. Doesn't mean its "crap". Just means its not for me. Sounds like it isn't the game for you.

 

With Transmorg all the old content is once again relevant.

[Shingara]

With Transmorg all the old content is once again relevant.

 

so your idea of new content is to recycle old content ?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Shingara

[aznthecapn]

First of all, only a very small percentage of people care about the storyline in the zones in WoW because most people don't bother reading the quest text. It's in no way interactive and if I wanted to do any of that, I'd read a book

 

So you "most people" about how they level? Did you take down statistical data on this? Or, as I suspect, are you pulling this info out of your nether regions? Just because you did it that way doesn't mean everyone did. Just because the people you played with did it that way doesn't mean everyone did.

 

Second, I never said anything made TOR BETTER. I merely said that your assumption that it was a different leveling experience is rose tinted.

 

It was a different leveling experience. Moving through Dun Morogh and fighting back the Troggs into Loch Modan then exploring into the Wetlands and fighting off the Dark Irons was a blast (in some cases literally). Fighting the Defias in Elwynn, Westfall and Redridge was good too. I especially liked meeting the Orcs in Redridge and finding out the story about the old hermit. All these are different experiences and enjoyable in their own right.

 

Third, if you're not talking about release WoW you must be talking about expansions of WoW, in which case the similarities end until TOR puts out an expansion.

 

I made two separate points. One paragraph about release and the other about ALL patches. You didn't read the discussion from the start.

 

Fourth, your account wasn't created in '04, if it was, you wouldn't be talking this nonsense. There was definitely not more to do at WoW release. No hardmodes/heroics, no battlegrounds, no dailies, two raids, a few more dungeons, no world bosses. Bigger continents and a "fresh" leveling experience, alt-wise, isn't more content especially when the bash you're putting on is that the only thing to do in TOR is to level alts

 

Indeed it was and indeed there was. More continents and new leveling experience is content.

 

Now, bring some REAL arguments to the table or just go away.

 

You first.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

But that just isn't the case, some classes will almost never kill certain other classes no matter how good the player is. Some specs and talents are also completely useless.

 

The only real strategy to wow pvp is to have 1 of every class, so WHEN blizzard overnerf/overbuff one a few months down the line you can easily switch.

 

Thanks to Mists, useless talents are being trimmed out (though people are now complaining that it means there is less choice, ironically posting on their main with the cookie cutter spec they downloaded off the internet).

 

But the main problem will always be players going alone. Every player thinks they are the sole hero who can take on waves of enemies and just shrug it off. But it's never the case. Work together and stay together and PvP can become balanced. You'll never have to abandon your Paladin when someone else can cover your back with their Mage who can freeze the Rogue that's been stunlocking you while another Rogue bleeds him so he can't stealth away.

[Ishko]

Well, here's the choice. Lets go to a world where it's logical to compare wow of 2004, to swtor of 2011.

 

So, Warcraft released with 2 - 40 man raids, 2 10 man raids (UBRS/LBRS), 18 or so 5 man dungeons, 7 classes with an at the time and a unique class for each faction. 8 unique and visually different races. Multiple leveling paths for each class, allowing for two-three characters to level without doing the same quest twice. Content that required not only a large amount of gear, but keys/attunements to the raids and faction reputation to complete them, keeping people busy for months, even when they played 12 hrs day 6 days week. Not to mention a nearly perfect combat system, thousands of unique models and tens of thousands of items to find. Then you also had the complete macro, UI modification system along with a use-able combat log.

 

Star Wars was released with 2 16&8 man operations, dozens of flash points, 3 battlegrounds, space combat. But they only had 4 unique classes, each class had 2 advanced specs with 8 races that all look almost exactly like each other. a horrible combat system with no macro or UI capability, no combat log (Even though was in beta). Railed questing outside of unique class quests. Railed space combat. Operations that can be completed in quest gear, with no need or reason to upgrade through end-level flashpoints. PvP gear that can be earned through battlegrounds.

 

Voice dialog in quests is not content.

 

You know though, the thing that ruined my star wars experience wasn't the quest dialog, railed worlds, pvp or railed space combat.

 

It's the absolutely horrible combat.

 

I know what you are getting at but... classic wow sucked. It was a nice time sink for me back then but over all... it sucked. Don't get me wrong, it's still a totally idiotic statment to compare ToR to classic WoW in 2012, and the stupidity of many people here shows, but let's be honest with our selves here. It wasn't really that great.

 

Great for it's time yeah, it stood on exploration. Alot of people I knew from classic could spend over a year leveling their first guy just because they wanted to explore everything. Something alot of folks here forget, most people weren't at the end game in the first year. Most people were just leveling, exploring, having fun with guildies. It wasn't about the end game for that first year for alot of people. You'd barely see any 60's around iron forge or stormwind. By the time most people finally did start getting into the end game, the new content was already out.

 

But by todays standard, it wouldn't be enough to hold up to any real MMO. Of course, we're not playing classic wow. Also I am simply not seeing the grand feeling of exploration comming from the fanbase on this game. The story arc is the biggest compliment I keep seeing from the playerbase, as opposed to wow's exploration, but the exploration of wow had alot longer life than the story of ToR. It lasted over a year for alot of people, here it's more like 4 or 6 weeks. And let's face it, there isn't much exploration value in ToR. Holocrons are cool, but it's not the same feeling of accomplishment when you find a secret path to the dancing troll village, or the dwarf airport.

 

Still, the nostalgia of exploration in wow aside, classic sucked. I liked it, but let's not let nostalgia cloud our vision of classic wow, nor let fanboyism cloud ones vision of ToR.

[aznthecapn]

so your idea of new content is to recycle old content ?

 

 

It is but one way to refresh interest in old content. Its by no means the only way and to imply he thinks it is the only is short-sighted and poor logic.

[Wookieluva]

that is a consequence of REP/IMP imbalance as well as the unbelievable amount of instancing.

 

Both poisons to community and hence low populations on some servers.

 

Solution =

 

1. remove factions - let lightside and darkside determine stance

2. lower instancing

3. open up server transfers / merge low pop servers

 

1. this galaxy isnt black and white... its grey, there can be good people who believe in the great evil empire, and evil people who support the Republic of Justice and light... i like this as do many, it seems to give the game a more dynamic feel.... how about if they just didnt seperate Republic and Imperial so much? maybe FP's with a boss that is a threat to both factions and they have a temp. alliance to take the boss out?

 

2. Lower Instancing? really? the instance system is really nice in this game... i have played games with no instances and invariably it ends up with griefers... I like to do a quest where i am not competing for the required number of kills with 6 other ppl in the area.... not having to worry about some dork training my camp while i try to kill a named just so he can steal it while i am trying to run back.... not having to wait for respawn timers on named when i get to that point in my quest because someone is trying to get the "Stick of Wonder" for his low level alt....

 

3. This i agree with, but i have to say that the reason for the low pop servers has nothing to do with rep/imp balance its because bioware started the game out with about twice as many servers as needed... then server pops declined a bit as ppl decided they didnt like the game format or waiting for new content.... if they cut the amount of servers in half give us 12 or 10 char slots so that ppl who have chars on multiple merge servers can integrate all thier toons without giving any up, then the game would really take off.

[BlackZoback]

WoW has all of its preexisting content including raids and dungeons since 4.0. Most of what you call "nonsensical crap" is stuff many other enjoy doing. Some of it I do, some I don't. Doesn't mean its "crap". Just means its not for me. Sounds like it isn't the game for you.

 

If so many others enjoyed being force fed recycled content then cataclysm would be hailed as the most successful expansion to date....instead of the beginning of the end.

 

If your going to compare them now, like your adamant about, and do it fairly then you have to take into account what content is relevant.

 

Also played WoW for more time then you, loved it for what it was and now hate it for what it has become.

Edited March 25, 2012 by BlackZoback

[Shingara]

It is but one way to refresh interest in old content. Its by no means the only way and to imply he thinks it is the only is short-sighted and poor logic.

 

Actually no, the statment that transmog is the only way to make lower lvl content relevent is to farm it solo or out of content design for gear to look a specific way. The relevence of content is for the level you are.

 

The fact that its stated as such only shows the relevence of the fact of the limited parts of wow up until this point which obviously states back to the same effect that wow churns through the times on which is farming.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Shingara

[aznthecapn]

If so many others enjoyed being force fed recycled content then cataclysm would be hailed as the most successful expansion to date....instead of the beginning of the end.

 

If your going to compare them now, like your adamant about, and do it fairly then you have to take into account what content is relevant.

 

One misstep is not the beginning of the end. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

 

Actually no, the statment that transmog is the only way to make lower lvl content relevent is to farm it solo for gear to look a specific way, the relevence of content is for the level you are.

 

The fact that its stated as such only shows the relevence of the fact of the limited parts of wow up until this point which obviously states back to the same effect that wow churns through the times on which is farming.

 

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand what you're trying to convey here.

[Ishko]

Your saying this like its a good thing.

 

I'm sure if the devs had to do it again they would adopt this model that ToR is using.

 

I've never actually seen two people who knew what they were doing be able to kill each other in 5 seconds. And I've watched plenty of people go at it. I see people die in 5 seconds if multiple people are hitting him, but that happens with any situation.

 

You can die fast if you don't know what you are doing. One wrong move in wow pvp will cost you like a third of you health in about 3 seconds, as where one wrong move in ToR will cost you maybe one 6th of your heath. That doens't really make either one better or worse though. That just means the people who enjoy wow's PvP like it being fast and unforgiving and more likely to call ToR pvp for slow thinking noobs. But even that isn't true.

 

Some people like PvP to be easier and slow, others want it fast and unforgiving. Like Halo having sheilds, and CoD dying in 2 seconds if you make an error. Neither is better, it just appeals to a different community.

[Esproc]

One misstep is not the beginning of the end. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand what you're trying to convey here.

 

Pandas and Poke'mon.

 

Is that 2? or 3?

[Wookieluva]

I can roll a night elf and go to Elwynn Forest or Dun Morogh to level. From level 1. Can't do that in SWTOR. You're locked onto your starting planet until they let you off. Once you are off, you're stuck doing the same series of planets every time you want a new character.

 

 

 

 

A) How is that any different than "destroy 5 of these things" and then when you get there and kill a mob its suddenly "hey, while you're there, kill 15 of these guys and 20 of these guys"?

 

B) I read my quests. I enjoyed the story. Just because you didn't doesn't mean everyone is like you.

 

 

 

Vanilla instances were epic and fun with guildmates and friends - raids and dungeons alike. The only downside was class specific loot.

 

 

 

 

Regular enough to keep things interesting. The only time I got genuinely bored between patches was at the end of Wrath because ICC was out WAY too long before Cataclysm. I never said every patch had a raid - I said every patch had something whether its new dailies, new BGs, new quests, new raid, new dungeons. Except that stupid voice chat patch. That sucked. I didn't think people needed me to spell things out so much.

 

 

Even less of those were added, instead they nerfed down some raids and turned them into regular instances.

 

Number is a moot point - they were added and free of charge. If you read carefully, I'm referencing the SECOND statement of the person I originally quoted when he said you almost got nothing in the free content patches.

 

 

Were never part of Vanilla

 

Wasn't talking about vanilla.

 

Apart from adding some new recipe drops to instances, not much was changed about crafting during Vanilla.

 

Wasn't talking about vanilla.

 

3, no less, were patched in during content updates, since they didn't even exist at launch.

 

Wasn't talking about vanilla.

 

Which was basically removed again at the end of Vanilla

 

Wasn't talking about vanilla.

 

Uhm, that's a given, that's more or less standard for content updates.

 

Tell that to the guy I was talking to about not getting anything for content updates.

 

*cough* *splutter*

 

Yes?

 

 

 

My first paragraph was about Vanilla. My second was about ALL content patches since then. Make sure you read the entire thread and know where you're coming into the conversation. It'll help keep things clear and understandable.

 

 

 

Its as competitive as Rift, FF-XI, WAR, Conan, CoH, and GW. I post here because I enjoy discussion and hope to have it with people who don't feel the need to take any negative comment about this game personally. Still looking for that discussion.

 

seems to me that you just dont like SWTOR and wish to try and get people to agree with you thatt it should be wow2.0 just go back to wow if you want to play wow.... i want something different as do most who play this game....

[Shingara]

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand what you're trying to convey here.

 

I mean it in the stance that the content is designed to play a specific way and in a chalanging way for your specific level. To keep low level content relative requires a reason for doing that content again at the designs that it was implemented at mainly being at a char of the required level with other people of the required level and the items or rewards you gain being relevent for you at that point and in the future when it comes to custom gear like social or moddable items that can be addapted to your spefic level.

 

 

To do something along the lines of transmog to create a reason for your todo content that is neither challanging nor advancing for yourself but only to farm for one or 2 specific items for looks only is a bit like shutting the gate after the horse has run.

 

Im not disputing it maybe fun for people to look a specific way based on old armour sets or weapons which it might be for alot of people but what does that stance say about the current content avilable and the variety of looks available at relevent content levels.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Shingara

[Offended]

The fact that its stated as such only shows the relevence of the fact of the limited parts of wow up until this point which obviously states back to the same effect that wow churns through the times on which is farming.

 

what are you talking about? What does that even mean?

 

do you even know what transmogrification does? You can take your decent looking T-13 gear, get a group of guys together and go back and run T-6 content to get some of the best looking gear from wow.

 

In no way did i say that this was new content. Its not, but it gives you something to do other than sit in org /afk while you wait for raid, by giving people a reason to run old content again.

[Shingara]

what are you talking about? What does that even mean?

 

do you even know what transmogrification does? You can take your decent looking T-13 gear, get a group of guys together and go back and run T-6 content to get some of the best looking gear from wow.

 

In no way did i say that this was new content. Its not, but it gives you something to do other than sit in org /afk while you wait for raid, by giving people a reason to run old content again.

 

look above the post im quoting on you now, and yes i am well aware of what transmog is, im also aware of the limitations of transmog at this time.

[aznthecapn]

Pandas and Poke'mon.

 

Is that 2? or 3?

 

I'm looking forward to Pandas and pet battles as well as scenarios, challenge dungeons, a new continent (the biggest issue with Cataclysm in my mind), new dungeons, the new talent system, etc. I stopped playing WoW for four months when SWTOR came out. I'm likely just getting bored with the genre in general (turned 30 last month) but a lot about MoP looks exciting.

 

Its all subjective. Hence these thrilling discussions!

[BlackZoback]

One misstep is not the beginning of the end. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

One misstep at the wrong time, can and does mark the end of a game.

 

Planes of Power was EQs and Cataclysm is WoWs, they will never again see the number they are used to only a steady decline. MoP wont break any records and will be WoW dying breath, F2P land from there.

 

And you still can't fairly compare WoW and ToR if your going to bring 3 expansions of obsolete content to the table.

Edited March 25, 2012 by BlackZoback

[aznthecapn]

seems to me that you just dont like SWTOR and wish to try and get people to agree with you thatt it should be wow2.0 just go back to wow if you want to play wow.... i want something different as do most who play this game....

 

I'm not sure where you got that. I'm a little bored of both to be honest. I do, however, feel that a lot of what I enjoy in an MMO was more present and more enjoyable when WoW was released compared to when SWTOR was released. I think some of the things coming in 1.2 will be amazing for SWTOR and will renew my interest, at least for a bit, but if you're going to compare I'd prefer people did it accurately and without the need to make dramatic assumptions or sweeping generalizations about either game because of some minor aspect they don't like.

 

That's the beauty of all this - its purely subjective.