SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[Itukaaj]

One big positive SWTOR has over alot of other MMo's on the market are the Datacron hunts. I really enjoy these, ", it adds a nice little feature and gives you something to do while PvP queueing (even though the queues are instant pretty much always on my realm).

.

 

Yes, this is nice. So are World bosses.

[TKMaster]

and I'm sure 100% of the people with subscriptions to TOR are playing TOR.

 

And need anyone state the obvious. 10 million subs is the low points for Blizzard. Bioware doesn't even seem to be able to get even 1/3rd of that.

 

GD your clueless, nvm.

[Dymor]

Most of those "modern" features of WoW are the reasons it's bleeding subscribers and has one of the worst reputations among gamers for any existing MMO.

 

Copying current WoW is not a formula for success for any new game. WoW's peak subscriber numbers were reached with the gameplay of late Burning Crusade / early Wrath, and there's a lesson there. If there's something to be learned from current WoW it's where they went wrong.

 

To think in the era of social networks and social gaming you can throw people into a group with random people they don't even know with no possibility of them interacting afterwards and calling that "modern" is absurd.

 

There is a need for a simple in-server LFG tool to be sure, or even a few server mergers but there is no need for WoW's soulless dungeon grinds for countless tokens with people you'll never get to know who hate your guts for having to be there in the first place.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Dymor

[ChrisJanM]

And WoW today is a free ride to 80 followed by farming the same few dungeons for two weeks before you get all of the gear you need. Then you either run out of content and quit or you start raiding. At this point, you'll log on for 3 - 5 hours a few nights a week to raid, and you'll do absolutely nothing else otherwise.

 

Yeah, competing with WoW today isn't too difficult.

 

Quite clever, the free ride to lvl 80. It makes it possible for new players to forget the long struggle to 90, as MoP comes out.

By the way, WoW isn't only raiding, there are enough funny battlegrounds to enjoy and I've seen more and more raiders enjoying that before I unsubbed 3 month ago.

 

I think it useless to compare WoW and SWToR as far as mentioning elves or jedi's. Comparing mechanics, technology, possibilities can be usefull.

 

I like to play SWToR and will resub soon to WoW because I expect some enjoying introduction quests to MoP.

I hope the BW-devs are able to release 1.2 before MoP, otherwise it'll be nightwork to play bothe games equally to enjoy the new content both will deliver.

[Knockerz]

Quite clever, the free ride to lvl 80. It makes it possible for new players to forget the long struggle to 90, as MoP comes out.

By the way, WoW isn't only raiding, there are enough funny battlegrounds to enjoy and I've seen more and more raiders enjoying that before I unsubbed 3 month ago.

 

I think it useless to compare WoW and SWToR as far as mentioning elves or jedi's. Comparing mechanics, technology, possibilities can be usefull.

 

I like to play SWToR and will resub soon to WoW because I expect some enjoying introduction quests to MoP.

I hope the BW-devs are able to release 1.2 before MoP, otherwise it'll be nightwork to play bothe games equally to enjoy the new content both will deliver.

 

MOP is months away. The beta that just started only covers the first starting area for the panda race. Personally, I believe the beta that just started for mop is a publicity stunt by Blizzard. If the game was really ready for testing you would have more content for testing in beta than what they have up at moment. It's seems more like a alpha test in the sense that the content being tested is very small. I just get the feeling that wow is losing a lot of subscriptions, so Blizzard is sound it's beta trumpet card to hold the attention of players despite the beta not really being ready for beta testing.

[GRINnBARRETT]

I never understood why people always have to compare new games to games they've played in the past. I guess they're just close-minded. If you want WoW 2.0 then go to Blizzard & tell them that.

 

While SWTOR can certainly improve in some areas, it is exactly what they advertised it to be - a STORY-driven MMORPG. If you followed the game even remotely prior to launch then you knew that story-driven means more to RPG than it does to MMO.

 

My guess is that your MMO experience is so limited that you're incapable of enjoying it without comparing it to the only one you've ever played. Pandas will be out soon; have at it.

 

Some of us, mostly the ones playing the game instead of complaining in the forums, still love this game - probably b/c we took the time to get to know it before it launched. We enjoy VA & cutscenes more so than yellow question marks. We enjoy the SW lore, lightsabers, and Huttball.

 

Basically if you're not enjoying the game then move on. You're only prolonging your agony by hanging around, for you & us.

Edited March 25, 2012 by GRINnBARRETT

[RabidPopcorn]

I never understood why people always have to compare new games to games they've played in the past. I guess they're just close-minded. If you want WoW 2.0 then go to Blizzard & tell them that.

 

While SWTOR can certainly improve in some areas, it is exactly what they advertised it to be - a STORY-driven MMORPG. If you followed the game even remotely prior to launch then you knew that story-driven means more to RPG than it does to MMO.

 

My guess is that your MMO experience is so limited that you're incapable of enjoying it without comparing it to the only one you've ever played. Pandas will be out soon; have at it.

 

Some of us, mostly the ones playing the game instead of complaining in the forums, still love this game - probably b/c we took the time to get to know it before it launched. We enjoy VA & cutscenes more so than yellow question marks. We enjoy the SW lore, lightsabers, and Huttball.

 

Basically if you're not enjoying the game then move on. You're only prolonging your agony by hanging around, for you & us.

 

Story is arguably given more attention in SWTOR than that other MMO; but are you really saying that story alone can carry SWTOR?

 

SWTOR's story isn't even that great if you compare it to the other (single-player) rpgs out there. Through SWTOR's storyline (class quest mainly) I never really felt any profound attachment to the characters; it just didn't trigger any deeply-felt emotion or sentiment. This is all said from a relative perspective, I don't play much RPGs, in fact I think I've only played Final Fantasy 13; but even in FF13 (which isn't supposed to be that great if we believe all the criticism thrown at it by FF fans) the story was far more immersive and engaging (even the cut-scenes between chapters makes SWTOR's cut-scenes look really ordinary).

 

IMO, as I've said in another post, I think the class-story in SWTOR wouldn't even be able to make it into a 500 page novel unless you contrived to - this is what I think is the issue.

Edited March 25, 2012 by RabidPopcorn

[realID]

I badly want this game to succeed but the comparison between SWTOR at launch and WoW at launch was only good for opening week (if that).

 

 

Is it unfair? Yes, horribly, but it is what it is. I'm not playing WoW Vanilla anymore, I play WoW: Cataclysm and will soon be playing WoW: Mist of Pokemon Battle Farmville (and what ever other IP we can rip/pay off Ninja Edit: Before anyone comments on that, I'm not suggesting Bioware rip off IPs, there are other very good qualities of WoW that should be copied over and I've suggested these numerous times). To keep my subscription and keep me playing a new MMO, it simply has to compete with the present rather than with the past.

 

Yes, SWTOR at release was infinitely better than WoW at release. Problem is it's 2012. Bioware hopefully knows that they have to add a ton more features and do it quickly.

Edited March 25, 2012 by realID

[oursacrifice]

in before closing.

 

WOW equals medieval fantasy cr**. No thanks.

 

BW should have looked at concepts of GW2, Archeage and The Secret World instead, not a ten year old MMO oldie with Pandas.

 

Because those other games have clearly taken over the MMO genre with unsurpassed levels of subscribers, countless upgrades and an entire legion of fans, online fansites, knowledge hubs, etc...

[Vulgarr]

I hate to beat a dead horse too much, but the obvious fight going in the MMO space right now is between WoW and SWTOR.

 

When SWTOR came out there was a vocal minority arguing that what SWTOR is now is better than WoW at release. They reasoned that SWTOR offers more to players than WoW did at release, their comparisons are often driven towards saying, "yeah - SWTOR did this wrong at release, but WoW did it worse when it was first released." The argument relies on the idea that developers cannot compete with 10 years of ongoing development, that features and content in WoW now was developed over 10 years.

 

This is of course all rubbish, and Blizzard seems to get that:

 

 

 

Whilst the criticism is certainly in keep with Blizzard "post-competitor release PR machine", he's damn right. He couldn't be more right if he tried. I do not PvE... at all... aside from raids I run with my guild. Why? Because finding a group is so very tiresome, especially considering that in most MMOs today the feature to find a group easily is center stage. A lack of Dunegon Finder is a big thing, a big omission, something that should be in 1.2. We're not getting it in 1.2, that's obvious, and we'll get it at some point in the future, but it's such a big thing that SWTOR is half a game for not having it.

 

That's a bit part however. 1.2 goes a long way to bringing SWTOR in line with modern MMOs, as opposed to being 10 steps behind them. Bioware obviously knows that they are competing with WoW now, not WoW at launch. 1.2 and 1.3 are likely to add in pretty much every major feature that WoW has on SWTOR, and we're likely to see more in the way of gameplay variety coming in the future.

 

I'm not suggesting that Bioware should be trying to emulate WoW. I am saying that Bioware should be looking at WoW and other MMOs and seeing uniform features - like dungeon finders - and saying "yeah, that's something we should have had at launch, and something we should get into the game asap." And it was foolish of Bioware to release the game in the state it was in. Whilst it's certainly an accomplishment to have made SWTOR, it's also a testimony to the failures of the team. I'm hopeful - as are many others - that they've come to realise their folly.

 

this is a nice post and all but you know what wow doesnt have?

 

 

my money.

[Kynesis]

Ultimately it will come down to participation, innovation and polish.

 

TL;DR - Blizz is no angel and it took them years of denial before they accepted the facts and learned more than a few tough lessons on the way, but they get it now, they've learned *a lot*. BW by contrast is starting from first principles and muddling through.

 

GW2 sports some interesting ways of getting players involved (chiefly 'sandbox' features) and as frequently documented and illustrated on mmo-champ, WoW has managed incredible participation rates in several key areas of the game, not only through the very well publicised LFD and LFR tools (which have seen intense development after years of Blizz almost vehemently being against them).

 

SWTOR by contrast has servers with huge zones and tiny populations and no way of engaging players in the many great areas or game in general other than fancy (and very likeable) quest dialogues.

 

Clearly the level of engagement in solo quests has been very high but there's really nothing beyond solo quests.

I did see that BW say 48% of players have been on one or more Operations but that really is an extremely minimal measure of player engagement and participation.

 

WoW's LFD and LFR have seen a huge amount of development and ensure that most aspects of the game, from top to bottom have very high and increasingly reliable participation rates on rigorously tested content and mechanics - i.e. people get on and actually enjoy the content without having to work through ancillary activities to get to the game that they logged on to play in the first place.

 

They've worked really hard to bring down the barriers between players and guilds and get them all involved with one-another.

 

As so often pointed out, SWTOR has started out just like WoW did, with many of the same preconceptions and biases. BW is only starting out, making many of the exact same mistakes and missteps that Blizz made when they first released WoW.

 

WoW by contrast has been through several generational changes (not just incremental but major revisions), it may be mired in old graphic quality and a tired old medieval setting but the technology and frankly science behind it is light years ahead of any other game - pound for pound, on that front alone few companies, let-alone games, are even in the ballpark with Blizz.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Kynesis

[TOURDallas]

Wow probably shouldn't have depopulated their world, turn cities into main questing hubs and by trying to lure players back into the world they wrecked familiar places, instead of creating new content.

 

Wow is old and tired and blizz is down to selling Diablo 3 for a 1 year wow subscription.

[Apokelypse]

I'll stick with playing in a community of people who actually socialize, are polite, and make an effort to form excellent in-game grouping experiences.

 

The cross-server anonymity in WoW is horrendous.

 

I agree that cross-server anonymity is a huge part of what killed the wow community. That being said, the lack of grouping options is currently killing the community in swtor. Two people can trying to get a 3rd and 4th group member for a standard heroic 4 mission can be as polite to each other as they want to be...but if you can't even fill out the group after a hour of spamming general...

 

I'm definitely against cross-server anything after experiencing the results in wow, but we really need a LFG tool now.

 

I played wow since it hit retail shelves in the U.S. but I'll never play it again. There are many factors that ruined wow in my opinion:

 

1. Cross-server grouping - This killed any concept of individual player reputation. Without there being consequences for unacceptable behavior, players just started doing and saying whatever to each other. In vanilla wow, if you were a jerk, loot ninja, or a poor player...the word spread fast and your grouping options were severely limited.

 

2. Communication - It might seem like the cool thing to do to ignore an entire class on the forums while catering to your favorite class at every turn, but this type of behavior not only causes you to lose subs from that least favorite class, but sets a bad precedent for the next thing you don't want to deal with. If you want your paying customers to keep interest in the game, have confidence in your interest and ability to balance the game, and therefore keep paying to play this game...then you need to maintain constructive, interactive, and informative dialog with all your player groups. Its hard to stay invested in a game that takes this much of your time when you are being ignored. When wow devs just up and deleted an entire spec of a class that they had allowed to exist for over a year...

 

3. Flavor over functionality - It might also seem cool to maintain certain restrictions on certain classes...such as positional attacks, only usable outdoors, etc, but when this is having a negative impact on game play and is directly contradictory to encounter design...you need to be willing to re-evaluate those restrictions...and not after 3+ years of being told about the problem every day.

 

4. PvP versus PvE - One should not suffer because of the other...ever. WoW devs repeatedly said they would not nerf pve for pvp reasons, but did nerf pve for pvp reasons repeatedly. Its pretty obvious to your players when you do this...despite vehement denials in your PR responses..if you bother to respond at all. WoW devs finally broke down and started making some abilities work differently in pvp than in pve, but that was only after years of being stubborn about it.

 

Following a formula for success from a different MMO is all well and good, but don't follow the formula for their failures as well. BW, I'm sure you are well aware of what WoW did and did not do correctly...just learn from their mistakes please.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Apokelypse

[Herbertt]

Swtor = single player in a mmo world

All other mmo's are actually mmos.

 

How people can compare them, i really don't know.

[Samborino]

I hate to beat a dead horse too much, but the obvious fight going in the MMO space right now is between WoW and SWTOR.

 

When SWTOR came out there was a vocal minority arguing that what SWTOR is now is better than WoW at release. They reasoned that SWTOR offers more to players than WoW did at release, their comparisons are often driven towards saying, "yeah - SWTOR did this wrong at release, but WoW did it worse when it was first released." The argument relies on the idea that developers cannot compete with 10 years of ongoing development, that features and content in WoW now was developed over 10 years.

 

This is of course all rubbish, and Blizzard seems to get that:

 

 

 

Whilst the criticism is certainly in keep with Blizzard "post-competitor release PR machine", he's damn right. He couldn't be more right if he tried. I do not PvE... at all... aside from raids I run with my guild. Why? Because finding a group is so very tiresome, especially considering that in most MMOs today the feature to find a group easily is center stage. A lack of Dunegon Finder is a big thing, a big omission, something that should be in 1.2. We're not getting it in 1.2, that's obvious, and we'll get it at some point in the future, but it's such a big thing that SWTOR is half a game for not having it.

 

That's a bit part however. 1.2 goes a long way to bringing SWTOR in line with modern MMOs, as opposed to being 10 steps behind them. Bioware obviously knows that they are competing with WoW now, not WoW at launch. 1.2 and 1.3 are likely to add in pretty much every major feature that WoW has on SWTOR, and we're likely to see more in the way of gameplay variety coming in the future.

 

I'm not suggesting that Bioware should be trying to emulate WoW. I am saying that Bioware should be looking at WoW and other MMOs and seeing uniform features - like dungeon finders - and saying "yeah, that's something we should have had at launch, and something we should get into the game asap." And it was foolish of Bioware to release the game in the state it was in. Whilst it's certainly an accomplishment to have made SWTOR, it's also a testimony to the failures of the team. I'm hopeful - as are many others - that they've come to realise their folly.

 

Im pretty sure they said it dungeon finder will be ready before 1.3 (or maybe with 1.3 but i thought at one point they said inbetween 1.2 and 1.3) They have also said that the wait time between 1.2 and 1.3 will be less than the wait time between 1.1 and 1.2 which is pretty good considering that if BW releases 1.2 in early april then that is just over 2 and a half months after 1.2, so at most id say we have to wait 2 more months after 1.2 comes out for dungeon finder which isnt bad.

 

I do agree with you though, that in a post wow market (especially these days) features like this are kind of painful for the average player. For me its not such a big deal if i want to run a HM FP i can easily find enough people in my guild to do one almost instantly and it is certainly alot quicker than queueing as a DPS on wow's dungeon finder. Obviously that isnt the case for everyone though.

[Blackardin]

SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

 

Yet you are here, playing SWTOR, with the rest of us. ;p

[Samborino]

Swtor = single player in a mmo world

All other mmo's are actually mmos.

 

How people can compare them, i really don't know.

 

Not in terms of storyline and questing. But if you are talking about the "dead world" wow is pretty much the same way. Go on a medium or heavy server and go to a mid level zone anytime of day. I guarantee on most occasions you will not see more than 20 people there. Maybe BW made a mistake by showing the number of people that are in your zone. Its always smacking you right in the face that their are only 15 people in your zone, its actually kind of annoying in alot of ways, as soon as i get my hands on the custom UI that is the first thing im going to get rid of.

 

Also the fact that wow zones are connected makes a difference in the sense that you will see people flying overhead that may just be passing through or something, but you honestly cant make a starwars game with connected zones (planets) the planets are obviously going to be instanced that is the only play with a star wars MMO.

[Blackardin]

Swtor = single player in a mmo world

All other mmo's are actually mmos.

 

How people can compare them, i really don't know.

 

You are making a false claim, proceeding from a false premise, then asking a loaded question based on that fabricated statement.

 

This is a game in which one CAN solo through the levels while also involving themselves in group play. It is what players have been complaining about since EQ. It was the single largest complaint in EQ.

 

Mandatory group play and painful leveling are a thing of the past. If you chose not to participate in group play, that is your choice. It is not a game defect. In fact, it does not even exist.

[Denskoo]

Because those other games have clearly taken over the MMO genre with unsurpassed levels of subscribers, countless upgrades and an entire legion of fans, online fansites, knowledge hubs, etc...

 

WoW caters to the masses. But if I wanted to start up a great hamburger joint in town, I don't think I'd want to be looking at McDonald's for my primary inspiration. I suppose It just depends on whether you want to sell a great product or just sell a crap ton of your product.

[Herbertt]

You are making a false claim, proceeding from a false premise, then asking a loaded question based on that fabricated statement.

 

This is a game in which one CAN solo through the levels while also involving themselves in group play. It is what players have been complaining about since EQ. It was the single largest complaint in EQ.

 

Mandatory group play and painful leveling are a thing of the past. If you chose not to participate in group play, that is your choice. It is not a game defect. In fact, it does not even exist.

 

False claim hey? every single quest is in a solo instance where you do not meet anybody else unless you invite them.

Just a tiny amount of quests area's you actually get to see others players.

Who said anything about force grouping?

 

For the poster above you, why else would i play a MMO if i dont want to see others while questing, its got nothing to do with population count, its the fact that everything is a solo instance type thing

Edited March 25, 2012 by Herbertt

[asbalana]

I just tried logging into WoW for the first time in over a year.

 

It is so OLD and terrible looking that I really can't even stare at the screen for long. I got a free copy of Cata and thought I'd give it a go but it only made me want to play TOR.

 

Then when I logged into TOR, I craved an open world to explore like WoW's. I'm so torn, it's quite frustrating.

 

I am 100% with you.

 

Last week, I also tried logging on to WOW after a year away. My wife created an account so that we could play together. She is a brand new MMOer who loves SWTROR but, of course, sees it's faults.

 

Gosh the game felt so old and tired and so slow. We played for a while and were left with such a meh feeling that we uninstalled and went back to swtor.

 

Although that is just our reaction, we are left feeling that it is the old lipstick on a pig thing. No matter how many features WOW has now, it is still a meh game that is way past it's prime and does not give the impact of swtor.

 

I do miss the open world feeling of WOW. I miss the choice in questing paths and areas and non linear questing. I miss the combat where if you hit a button something actually happens without ability delays and misfires. I do not miss the simplistic blehness of WOW. After trying a Warrior in WOW, my wife wanted her force leap back - the charge in WOW works but is so much less and is so meh. We are also torn. Swtor has so much potential but falls short in many ways and yet is so much better than WOW in our eyes. I guess we will be playing swtor for a while and continue to wait until someone comes along and does it right and combines the WOW pig lipstick on a younger more vibrant face.

[AlhimikMK]

You are making a false claim, proceeding from a false premise, then asking a loaded question based on that fabricated statement.

 

This is a game in which one CAN solo through the levels while also involving themselves in group play. It is what players have been complaining about since EQ. It was the single largest complaint in EQ.

 

Mandatory group play and painful leveling are a thing of the past. If you chose not to participate in group play, that is your choice. It is not a game defect. In fact, it does not even exist.

 

But its exists.

It takes ages to find 3rd person, not even to mention 4th, to run through FP.

[dcgregorya]

Speak for yourself. I don't like WoW and the lack of a dungeon finder is not a concern for me. If you prefer WoW, then I'm happy for you. However comments claiming SWTOR with it's already massive subscriber base is a failure for not having this feature is delusional and doesn't match up with reality.

[greenleef]

Agree and WoW is handing out free 80's like candy. That tells me the big dog is scared of the new big kid on the block.

 

Wow is giving away 80s because a lot of people left cuz how bad cata was and guess what they came out and publicly said they messed up with cata. Its nothing to do with swtor

[Samborino]

Story is arguably given more attention in SWTOR than that other MMO; but are you really saying that story alone can carry SWTOR?

 

SWTOR's story isn't even that great if you compare it to the other (single-player) rpgs out there. Through SWTOR's storyline (class quest mainly) I never really felt any profound attachment to the characters; it just didn't trigger any deeply-felt emotion or sentiment. This is all said from a relative perspective, I don't play much RPGs, in fact I think I've only played Final Fantasy 13; but even in FF13 (which isn't supposed to be that great if we believe all the criticism thrown at it by FF fans) the story was far more immersive and engaging (even the cut-scenes between chapters makes SWTOR's cut-scenes look really ordinary).

 

IMO, as I've said in another post, I think the class-story in SWTOR wouldn't even be able to make it into a 500 page novel unless you contrived to - this is what I think is the issue.

 

You said you dont play RPG's, so many RPG like storytelling isnt for you. Most of my friends who where into RPG's but not mmo's are absolutely in love with this game. Alot of my friends who where into pen and paper rpgs and not really even into many Video games love this game.

 

This game is not without its faults, but the sheer amount of story driven content it has is insane. KOTOR was a pretty massive game that you could play through multiple times with different results, this game is essentially 12 kotors put into an mmo setting.

 

Also no developer would ever put this much content into a game that didnt charge a monthly perscription so people saying that , this should have just been a single player game etc. It would have never happened , certainly not on the scale they did it. It would be a miniscule game compared to swtor. IMO this game is worth subscribing for the Leveling content alone, each class has 2 seperate forms of completely different dialogue (male and female) race makes a difference in what dialogue you see light and dark side shape the direction of your story (sure the story follows a fairly linear path but the details involved in your story can change drastically depending on decisions yoou make, gender you chose , race you play. You can even get different outcomes going dark/lightside twice with the multiple dark/ lightside options in alot of the dialogue)

 

And you will probably only even experience just over half the content of your respective faction the first time through, with all the bonus series , planets, side quest chains etc. Bonus series have some of the best storylines in the game IMO. I havent even mentioned that playing the opposing faction will result in an entirely different experience with none of the same quests (its pretty much the same in wow as well, but who actually reads the quests anyways? lol) but that should be obvious. On my first 50 while leveling i didnt pvp once i did no flashpoint more than once and i skipped a few, i did maybe only 1/2 to 1/3 of the heroics on each planet that i completed and still at the end i hadnt done any non class quests on correllia quesh, voss and didnt complete a few other planets as well. I hadnt done bonus series( which are basically like full leveling zones, as they take you to new quest hubs that give you missions that are related to the bonus series as well as missions that arent, and usualy quite a few heroics as well) on Nar shadaa, Alderaan, Hoth, Voss (i only did the first one but their are three (yes three) seperate bonus series on voss doing all of them will take you beyond 50, after i completed the first one i dinged 50) and i only did balmorra bonus series 1 but not 2.

 

so much content in this game (for leveling) 0.o. End game certainly has its problems but this is already a wall of text so im not going to get into it.