On PTS, does Prototype Particle Accelerator trigger even when Rail Shot isn't on cd?

[taugrimtaugrim]

EDIT: the answer is yes.

 

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In order to open up the use of Rail Shot with the reduced mana cost, our target has to have a fire DoT on them, and we have 2 choices:

- Incendiary Missile

- Flame Burst with the Bursting Flame talent and Combustible Gas Cylinder

 

Within 10m of a target, I favor FB over IM, because it costs less mana, applies the snare effect, and procs a very compact DoT (over 1100 damage in 6 seconds). IM is simply too expensive to always use as the opener on a target.

 

On 1.1.5, if Rail Shot isn't on cooldown, when you use Rocket Punch or Flame Burst, there is the chance that PPA procs anyway (you hear the laughter). On 1.1.5, that isn't an issue, because there is no internal cooldown for PPA.

 

However, as we all know, in 1.2 on the PTS, there is an internal 6-sec cooldown for procs of PPA. More importantly, on 1.2 PTS the internal cooldown is triggered in the situation I described above - i.e. PPA procs even when Rail Shot doesn't need the cooldown reset.

 

I understand triggering the 6-sec internal cooldown when the PPA proc fires and resets the cooldown for Rail Shot. But what about if Rail Shot hasn't even been used yet? That seems like an unintended negative side effect.

Edited March 26, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[universal_kalle]

That is indeed the case for Commandos and HIB. At least on live and I highly doubt this would've changed for PTS as it really isn't a bug. And if it's true for Commandos, by logic it should be true for Vanguards Remember that HIB becomes free with the proc so even if it procs while HIB is off the CD you get the free part. As a sidenote, Reserve Powercell (next cast is free) is consumed when firing an already free HIB (either through the proc or the 4-piece PvE set bonus with a Gunnery spec).

Beyond the laughter you can also see a red shield circling your character when it procs.

Edited March 24, 2012 by universal_kalle

[taugrimtaugrim]

That is indeed the case for Commandos and HIB. At least on live and I highly doubt this would've changed for PTS as it really isn't a bug. And if it's true for Commandos, by logic it should be true for Vanguards Remember that HIB becomes free with the proc so even if it procs while HIB is off the CD you get the free part.

 

The main reason to take PPA is for the proc cooldown reset of RS, not the mana-free proc, given that the Superheated Rail talent already cuts the cost of RS in half.

 

I would argue that given the design change to add a 6-sec cooldown to the proc for PPA, the talent should also be changed so that it doesn't proc unless RS is on cooldown.

Edited March 24, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[universal_kalle]

The main reason to take PPA is for the proc cooldown reset of RS, not the mana-free proc, given that the Superheated Rail talent already cuts the cost of RS in half.

 

I would argue that given the design change to add a 6-sec cooldown to the proc for PPA, the talent should also be changed so that it doesn't proc unless RS is on cooldown.

 

I was just pointing out that you still get something out of the proc. I think the free cast part is very important as well as it turns HIB into a ammo regeneration tool as much as our main damaging attack. Without that free HIB and 1 ammo regeneration the spec would be insanely ammo inefficient.

But I do agree with ya. Getting a proc currently when you're off CD is annoying but with a 6 second internal CD it'll.. Well.. Not make the player a happy camper.. Let's leave it at that

[Xerks]

This is a BIG issue to me playing a pyro-merc. What BW should do is make it so the 6-sec internal cooldown on Particle Accelerator is NOT triggered when Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt isnt on cooldown. This really needs to be fixed, as it stands for maximum damage you will be forced to use Rail Shot before your Proc-builder abilities or you take a chance at losing a railshot. Edited March 25, 2012 by Xerks

[taugrimtaugrim]

This is a BIG issue to me playing a pyro-merc. What BW should do is make it so the 6-sec internal cooldown on Particle Accelerator is NOT triggered when Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt isnt on cooldown. This really needs to be fixed, as it stands for maximum damage you will be forced to use Rail Shot before your Proc-builder abilities or you take a chance at losing a railshot.

 

I agree 100%.

 

This isn't a bug per se, but it is a mechanics flaw with the addition of the 1.2 internal 6-sec cooldown addition.

 

I'm surprised that there haven't been more people worried about this aside from us.

Edited March 25, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[Theology]

I'm worried about the whole change. 6 seconds is too long and causes too many issues. IT needs to be on 4.5 and this mechanic needs addressed as well.

[TirjacShiki]

This is a big issue.

 

Others have mentioned it briefly in other posts about the BH change. It's a huge concern mostly for heat management because in order to get the double rail shot using the standard railshot plus the PPA'd rail shot, you have to use Incendiary Missile to trigger the first rail shot in order to not risk wasting the PPA proc and triggering the 6s icd.

 

What Taugrim propsed seems like a simple and obvious fix for this, making PPA only proc if railshot is on cd.

 

If it isnt already this way in 1.2, it definitely should be.

[Sevvy]

This is one of the issues that I brought up in a post when the changes were first announced. PPA should not be able to proc while Rail Shot is not on cooldown. I'm not really surprised that Bioware didn't have the foresight to realize this would be a problem. o_O

[taugrimtaugrim]

I tweeted this thread to Stephen Reid and @swtor.

 

Hopefully the devs will take a look at it.

[Theology]

Thanks, taugrim.

[Xsorus]

This was my main concern as well, I won't mind the 6 second ICD if this is fixed and actually can't proc on the non used Railshot.

[Fafryd]

It is both unfair and a clumsy mechanic, in a spec historically purpose built to see it refresh.

 

I would actually prefer they nerfed the rate and not put the artificial lock out on it; the RNG element shouldn't be a major concern because it is RNG.

[taugrimtaugrim]

This was my main concern as well, I won't mind the 6 second ICD if this is fixed and actually can't proc on the non used Railshot.

 

Agree that would be a reasonable solution.

[Zarbak]

what concerns me is the heat management.

If you start missing procs and have a cooldwon applied even if RS hasn't been used yet, heat could go out of control expecially on the 2nd or 3rd player you fight after you entered combat. You only start at 0% heat / full ammo on the first, against the second or third and with vent heat / thermal sensor override on cd this could leave us the only option of spamming fulrry of bolts for longer periods of time instead of using it as a filler ability .

[Gaeta]

what concerns me is the heat management.

If you start missing procs and have a cooldwon applied even if RS hasn't been used yet, heat could go out of control expecially on the 2nd or 3rd player you fight after you entered combat. You only start at 0% heat / full ammo on the first, against the second or third and with vent heat / thermal sensor override on cd this could leave us the only option of spamming fulrry of bolts for longer periods of time instead of using it as a filler ability .

 

This is what I'm concerned about. Heat management is already a big part of playing a Pyro, it doesn't need the added complication. Our strong suit is our ability to RNG our way into crazy burst, but with the potential to seriously FUBAR ourselves because everything costs so much heat. If they nerf our damage AND our heat dissipation, this could be a much bigger nerf than they might have intended.