Alderaan Warzone: If you're Losing DON"T CAP!

[Astarica]

If your entire goal is too maximize commendations, the best thing to do is join a WZ in a premade and hide by a turret. Your team will lose quickly with the 4 of you doing nothing and you will get your 4 medals. You will get more commendations losing quickly because you will get more matches played. The reason you don't do this is the same reason I don't quit.

 

Unless you have self mutiliation abilities (Sorcs) you'll only get 2 medals for defender, and you'll rarely get the second one if you're losing badly since the game will end too fast.

 

Even the 'lose quick' strategy requires some offensive production to get the 4 medals, unless you're a Sorc.

[Exfire]

The only WZ I "quit" in is Voidstar. If your team got zero doors down on Offense and they take the first door down when it's their turn, the game is over. That's the only real "Checkmate" in WZ's.

 

I'm not playing the game to farm Valor or Comms. I'm playing the game (and PvP especially) because I enjoy good competition.

 

Victories are much more satisfying when they're the come-from-behind type. Especially when you're really far behind. Those are the sweetest of the bunch. Eating 4/5 losses for that 1/5 come-from-behind win.

 

Reminds me The Shawshank Redemption. Poor Andy got taken over and over again by the Sisters, and as Red said, there's some types of people who just bend over and accept it. Nothing they can do about it anyways, right? By the time they've got you cornered in the Laundry room, it's a forgone conclusion...

 

Then there's the ones like Andy Dufrene (sp?).

 

Definetely an extreme situation, but at it's base it's the same. Some will fight till the bitter end, as long as theres a chance for success. Others will just roll over and cry about it when it starts looking grim.

[Ch_Zero]

Nonsense! Don't quit the game OP! Just roll Imperial on Master Gnost-Dural.

 

This will improve my gaming experience considerably. . .since I play Republic.

 

 

 

I already have every piece of BM gear, I'm just collecting commendations for 1.2.

 

I doubt you would do well against a darkness assassin

[Nicain]

Getting "checked" does =/= "eventually get checkmated".

 

Regardless, the analogy is terrible.

 

Quitting a WZ before the game says "checkmate" is not the same as getting checkmated in chess (yes, played the game plenty). The difference between the two are glaring, even for the simpletons.

 

You fail at reading comprehension as you would have had to have read and understood everything I said, which you didn't, to connect the dots.

 

So you fail at chess and reading, yet you want us to think your opinion matters?

[Draqsko]

Getting "checked" does =/= "eventually get checkmated".

 

Regardless, the analogy is terrible.

 

Quitting a WZ before the game says "checkmate" is not the same as getting checkmated in chess (yes, played the game plenty). The difference between the two are glaring, even for the simpletons.

 

Huge difference, "checkmate" in CW is when the score is 3x+5:x (i.e. 305:100, 155:50, etc.), not 2x:x like everyone has been posting. At 2x:x score in CW, you are not mathematically eliminated, therefore you should not quit, because there is always the chance the other side gets cocky, goes medal farming, goes AFK, turret guard(s) DC's from the server, etc. enabling you to pull out that 30 second 3 cap with 2 capping the rest of the game to pull out that 5,10,15 to 0 win. Been there, done that on PUGs that refused to roll over and die, and those are the hardest fought, most gratifying wins I've ever had.

 

You shouldn't deny yourself or anyone else the chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, because only when the whole group never gives up is when you pull off those "miraculous" comebacks. They are only miraculous in the eyes of quitters, because never giving up from start to finish is the only way you will ever win sometimes.

 

As a side note, speeding up a loss does not equate to respawning into a new WZ faster. On my server, with 10-15 minute queues for WZs, just means you are spending that extra 3-5 minutes waiting for a new WZ. So you are not farming more valor or medals any faster than me, in fact I may get MORE medals and valor for not giving up, because i'm still scoring medals in those 3-5 minutes, getting 5 or 6 medals in a losing WZ, instead of just 3-4 medals. Meanwhile you are sitting in the queue doing nothing. Maybe that's why I have full level 40 pvp gear, and 1000 merc and wz comms at level 38 *ponder*

[astrocanis]

You fail at reading comprehension as you would have had to have read and understood everything I said, which you didn't, to connect the dots.

 

So you fail at chess and reading, yet you want us to think your opinion matters?

 

I am working towards a master rating (I'm at 2035). You're wrong. He's right.

 

Still want to play this game?

 

If you are going to beat the crap out of somebody by stating an amateur position, be prepared to be called on it.

[Ybini]

I say keep going if you're low on medals. There is a point just because you're going to get your fill doesn't mean anyone else playing has theirs.

[Scoobings]

Winners never quit, and quitters never win.

 

I sure hope you don't have this same pathetic 'give up' mentality in real life.

 

You can't reque in real life and start a new one. Unless you believe in reincarnation.

[yeux]

Unless you have self mutiliation abilities (Sorcs) you'll only get 2 medals for defender, and you'll rarely get the second one if you're losing badly since the game will end too fast.

 

Even the 'lose quick' strategy requires some offensive production to get the 4 medals, unless you're a Sorc.

 

I run into this all the time bc i nearly always solo or duo guard a turret for the duration. the second is usually there so I can throw guard on them and get back before the turret is capped.

 

Now im not so worried about the valor or comms myself since im well over BM, but I usually ask the team to send someone over at around 300, either side, so that my partner can go get their medals. its the least they can do for you giving up all that extra valor/comms in order to allow them more people to cap with

[Astarica]

It's practically unfathomable to overcome a 2:1 disadvantage in score unless you got essentially a new team because every weak player happened to quit and replaced by a good player who didn't quit in the first place.

 

Out of all the games I've played, the only game I overcame a 2:1 disadvantage was like 60:25 when we 3 capped with an all out assault (no one was defending our only turret), and the fact that it was 60:25 shows the game was actually pretty close to begin with.

[xoaxie]

If you top the parse of every pvp match in heals, dps and medals, and your teammates can't keep up. QUIT, wait for the next match and hope for a better pug. If you have a skilled premade then you won't likely lose to any pug. Pugs are for fun or to finish your daily quest, if a group of sub 20 unskilled slackers are dragging you down, then ditch them.

Why should we carry the helpless?

[olagaton]

All you squids who advocate quitting in the face of adversity:

 

Post your toon and server name.

 

Why hasn't anyone taken me up on this?

 

Maybe because you know you're BAD, and you want to stay anonymous.

 

Ah, the internet.

 

Tell me to my face about how you think I should let the other guys win, about how I should just roll over like a pansy.

 

Some people are givers and some are takers.

 

C'mon takers, post your toons and servers. Any of you have the cajones?

 

Oh wait, I'm talking to a bunch of people who roll over and die in the face of tough odds.

 

Of course you won't show yourselves.

You're silly. Many people say this stuff in-game, so they are absolutely putting their name out there as those that believe this is the best move. Just because you can't see the common sense in the act doesn't mean it's not common sense.

[Nytak]

You can't reque in real life and start a new one. Unless you believe in reincarnation.

 

What does that have to do with anything I said??

 

Losing attitudes are for losers, which is exactly the attitude the OP is expressing.

[Pistols]

You fail at reading comprehension as you would have had to have read and understood everything I said, which you didn't, to connect the dots.

 

So you fail at chess and reading, yet you want us to think your opinion matters?

 

Perhaps you should just be polite, and quit already, nobody cares that you rollover easily.

 

GG.

[Grubfist]

Huge difference, "checkmate" in CW is when the score is 3x+5:x (i.e. 305:100, 155:50, etc.), not 2x:x like everyone has been posting. At 2x:x score in CW, you are not mathematically eliminated, therefore you should not quit, because there is always the chance the other side gets cocky, goes medal farming, goes AFK, turret guard(s) DC's from the server, etc. enabling you to pull out that 30 second 3 cap with 2 capping the rest of the game to pull out that 5,10,15 to 0 win. Been there, done that on PUGs that refused to roll over and die, and those are the hardest fought, most gratifying wins I've ever had.

 

You shouldn't deny yourself or anyone else the chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, because only when the whole group never gives up is when you pull off those "miraculous" comebacks. They are only miraculous in the eyes of quitters, because never giving up from start to finish is the only way you will ever win sometimes.

 

As a side note, speeding up a loss does not equate to respawning into a new WZ faster. On my server, with 10-15 minute queues for WZs, just means you are spending that extra 3-5 minutes waiting for a new WZ. So you are not farming more valor or medals any faster than me, in fact I may get MORE medals and valor for not giving up, because i'm still scoring medals in those 3-5 minutes, getting 5 or 6 medals in a losing WZ, instead of just 3-4 medals. Meanwhile you are sitting in the queue doing nothing. Maybe that's why I have full level 40 pvp gear, and 1000 merc and wz comms at level 38 *ponder*

 

You're not "Mathematically eliminated" until your counter hits 0. I've seen a match start with a 3-cap and end with the team that had the poor start winning 235-0

 

People get overconfident, people make mistakes, people have rough starts, people find themselves in better positions to help in the later game.

There's all sorts of factors. Victory may not be LIKELY, but it's POSSIBLE.

 

And even if I could see the future and know my team would lose without ever capping a base, I would still go out there and fight. Why? Because I like fighting. I like to try and put the scare in enemies, I like to test myself against bad odds, I like to see people asplode.

 

I'm not gonna let them win. Ever. I'm gonna make them work for it as much as I can.

If I don't want to go through with the rest of the match, I'll do the polite thing and quit. I've done it before, not often, but I've done it.

 

Let people have their fun. You may have more fun by getting out of that match more quickly. You can do that. Exit Warzone. I'm sorry if me fighting makes you sad that you can't get your rewards and also have a quick match, but you are asking me to surrender, which to me, is just as rude as my continued fighting seems to be to you.

 

I do apologize if the way I play annoys you. I heard that ignoring players will make the queue try to avoid putting you in a match with them. Maybe try that out. But I'm not gonna sit on my hands and refuse to have fun just because YOU don't think it's fun.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Grubfist

[SabreMerc]

So first off, I'd like to point out that there are really only a few names advocating quitting, and a few people that are neutral... odd that "let's quit" doesn't have a stronger following.

 

Spartan's didn't have the option to requeue for Thermopylae.

 

If my life or account subscription depended on every Warzone I was in, yes I would obviously play every match out and pray for that 0.001% chance to overcome a large score gap (2x:x).

 

However, since Warzones are PvP skirmishes where you earn currency based on your rate of games completed per hour, I'll continue to advocate for quicker Warzone matches.

 

Not all of the Spartans went, they didn't have to make that tactical decision, and they gave the option to back out.

 

The difference is the mindset of a true soldier doesn't allow for the possibility of walking away... even when the mission could result in death. In those situations, the quitter is not only a coward, but generally gets himself killed as well.

 

The majority of my unit would have followed our 1sg or Commander into the depths of hell if we had needed to - I personally jumpped on a few opportunities for the sole reason that the situation looked horrible and I couldn't let a group of idiots get themselves killed without feeling responsible if I didn't go.

 

Another perfect incident: we were about to roll through an extremely dangerous area which was notorious for ambushes, and had intel stating that there was likely going to be some er... stuff going down. After giving the intel, we all had the "option" to stay. Not one single person did. We didn't lose anyone either. Just think about what would have happened to anyone who whinned and backed out. I still laugh with buddies about the one guy that gave up in a hostile area.

 

I could bring up historical examples, but I'm sure you will just claim that it's irrelevant due to comparing real life to a game and vice versa.

 

The point is that mindset is everything. If you're willing to quit as soon as things don't look like they're going your way, you AREN'T a team player. You AREN'T someone that anyone can count on. You AREN'T someone that anyone who has the CAN DO mindset will EVER want to associate with. And IRL you're the guy that would get other people killed.

 

What you don't understand that quitting is the what the 'winners' do here. We swallow our pride, take the loss when we know we've lost a match and requeue again. We gain more valor and commendations at a quicker rate than you, allowing us to acquire gear quicker and more efficiently, which in turn allows us to win more Warzones.

 

You're stating that you are a winner by quitting? Really? How far out there are you?

 

You're stating that the best way to play PVP is to give up once you start losing so you can get to a match you might win, and earn more commendations. But you can never ensure you get a match where you win - so I see a scenario where you go through a lot of matches where you give up.

 

Well congrats. You can stop worrying so much, in 1.2 you can just flat out buy some of your gear. That should help your efficency out.

 

So to help out:

• Gear =/= being a winner
  
• Quitter =/= winner
  
• Swallowing pride =/= giving up
  
• High valor =/= great pvp'er
  

 

Go ahead and argue those points. Please do.

 

Fact of the matter is, if you're geared - you have no reason to quit. If you're trying to get geared by quitting, you've done nothing but proven yourself as a teammate that a lot of people would prefer to never have. I don't care if someone is geared, I care if they have skill and drive. Skill can be gained through practice - therefore the only essential is drive and the willingness to learn without giving up.

 

Strangely the only place I really ever see that is on the Republic side. It's made playing republic unbearable for me... and I ended up switching to Empire.

 

Since then I've been having a lot better matches - virtually NO quitters, and since we were talking about gear justifing quitting... a low level character who is already bought all of the pre-50 pvp gear I need, and is now buying champion bags just for S&G.

 

I don't quit a single match, and I have an abundance of commendations. I constantly hit the max and have to figure out what to do with them next. My new character JUST hit 23...

 

So you tell me... you're finding the need to quit to achieve these same (or lesser?) results? It's not efficency, it's just someone trying to justify giving up when there really isn't any.

 

IRL or a video game, if it's clear that I'm going to lose I would much rather do everything that I can to take as many of the enemy out with me, and piss them off as much as possible... result is I'm still kicking after fighting in a warzone, and in the game's warzones I've seen some crazy last minute changes that have resulted in the win.

 

Who's more of a winner? The quitter that is just farming for gear, or the guy that keeps trying and occasionally turns the tide of the match for a win?

 

My vote is for the latter.

Edited March 26, 2012 by SabreMerc

[DarkDruidSS]

There is a team on my server that people always roll over for in Huttball.

 

I can't do it. I will keep harassing them and trying to prevent the score. I joined the WZ to pvp. Not roll over becasue I am a sore loser. People on my team get mad at me, but Oh well. Stop queueing if you are going to suck and roll over. Let the real objective PvPers play. Your sucking and rolling over is hurting my PvP experience just as much as you perceive me hurting your experience by playing the game as intended.

[Pekish]

did the main two defender of the looser mentality gave name of their char and server... they were asked before i think it would be nice to see if they are willing to put their "ideology" behind their character

 

I wont give up even if we are 5 - 600 or 5 - 0 in huttball and I am willing to put my name and character behind it

 

Ngoctu-Ngoctuu both on Lord Ieldis

 

I bet you dont have the ball to follow up your "let's give up" mentality that showes how lame you think it is in first place and u just want other do it too so you can hide in the crowed and don't feel ashamed

Edited March 26, 2012 by Pekish

[Tyraelium]

So first off, I'd like to point out that there are really only a few names advocating quitting, and a few people that are neutral... odd that "let's quit" doesn't have a stronger following.

 

 

 

Not all of the Spartans went, they didn't have to make that tactical decision, and they gave the option to back out.

 

The difference is the mindset of a true soldier doesn't allow for the possibility of walking away... even when the mission could result in death. In those situations, the quitter is not only a coward, but generally gets himself killed as well.

 

The majority of my unit would have followed our 1sg or Commander into the depths of hell if we had needed to - I personally jumpped on a few opportunities for the sole reason that the situation looked horrible and I couldn't let a group of idiots get themselves killed without feeling responsible if I didn't go.

 

Another perfect incident: we were about to roll through an extremely dangerous area which was notorious for ambushes, and had intel stating that there was likely going to be some er... stuff going down. After giving the intel, we all had the "option" to stay. Not one single person did. We didn't lose anyone either. Just think about what would have happened to anyone who whinned and backed out. I still laugh with buddies about the one guy that gave up in a hostile area.

 

I could bring up historical examples, but I'm sure you will just claim that it's irrelevant due to comparing real life to a game and vice versa.

 

The point is that mindset is everything. If you're willing to quit as soon as things don't look like they're going your way, you AREN'T a team player. You AREN'T someone that anyone can count on. You AREN'T someone that anyone who has the CAN DO mindset will EVER want to associate with. And IRL you're the guy that would get other people killed.

 

 

 

You're stating that you are a winner by quitting? Really? How far out there are you?

 

You're stating that the best way to play PVP is to give up once you start losing so you can get to a match you might win, and earn more commendations. But you can never ensure you get a match where you win - so I see a scenario where you go through a lot of matches where you give up.

 

Well congrats. You can stop worrying so much, in 1.2 you can just flat out buy some of your gear. That should help your efficency out.

 

So to help out:

• Gear =/= being a winner
  
• Quitter =/= winner
  
• Swallowing pride =/= giving up
  
• High valor =/= great pvp'er
  

 

Go ahead and argue those points. Please do.

 

Fact of the matter is, if you're geared - you have no reason to quit. If you're trying to get geared by quitting, you've done nothing but proven yourself as a teammate that a lot of people would prefer to never have. I don't care if someone is geared, I care if they have skill and drive. Skill can be gained through practice - therefore the only essential is drive and the willingness to learn without giving up.

 

Strangely the only place I really ever see that is on the Republic side. It's made playing republic unbearable for me... and I ended up switching to Empire.

 

Since then I've been having a lot better matches - virtually NO quitters, and since we were talking about gear justifing quitting... a low level character who is already bought all of the pre-50 pvp gear I need, and is now buying champion bags just for S&G.

 

I don't quit a single match, and I have an abundance of commendations. I constantly hit the max and have to figure out what to do with them next. My new character JUST hit 23...

 

So you tell me... you're finding the need to quit to achieve these same (or lesser?) results? It's not efficency, it's just someone trying to justify giving up when there really isn't any.

 

IRL or a video game, if it's clear that I'm going to lose I would much rather do everything that I can to take as many of the enemy out with me, and piss them off as much as possible... result is I'm still kicking after fighting in a warzone, and in the game's warzones I've seen some crazy last minute changes that have resulted in the win.

 

Who's more of a winner? The quitter that is just farming for gear, or the guy that keeps trying and occasionally turns the tide of the match for a win?

 

My vote is for the latter.

 

If you are going to equate playing video games to being a soldier in a real combat zone then we're clearly never going to see on the same page.

 

The person in real life who "never gives up" is the winner, yes, because he is either dead or still alive. Bravo.

 

The person in SWTOR who knows when the warzone is lost and is frugal with his time is the winner because he has gotten more gear than you, and before you. If he is as skilled/more skilled than you, then he has an even bigger advantage. If he isn't as skilled as you, well getting geared quicker makes up for that disparity. Yes, you will eventually be as geared as him, but he will have enjoyed weeks more of facemelting than you.

 

Get in touch w reality. You can either spend x minutes getting y currency, or choose to spend MORE time to get LESS rewards. 999/1000 times you spend the 5 extra minutes left being stubborn in a Warzone and still lose the game.

 

But hey at least you get to be Leonidas on Bunker Hill defending The Alamo in your mind.

 

I'm done tapping the glass, fish will be fish.

[Lohengrin]

I've played sports pretty much all my life - soccer mainly, but also baseball and football. In my 35+ years of playing, I've been on teams covering the entire spectrum of skill, from league champions to basement dwellers struggling for a single win. Never have I played for a team that gave up when the game was lost - if it looked like you were giving up, you were yanked off the field and maybe booted from the team.

 

I know WZs aren't necessarily analogous to real life sports, but I can't shake that mentality - I don't even care about personal stats or medals, I just want to win (I'm a defender in soccer, so that mentality translates well). That's in my DNA and won't ever change. If folks want to give in to save 3 minutes, then I'm not going to begrudge them that ... but I won't be a part of it. I'll fight tooth and nail and don't pay attention to the clock or score. If you don't want me on your team I won't be offended, but I'm not going to let the other team win regardless

[OmySpy]

People with a give up attitude can cost you comeback wins. I don't care if you think it's unlikely or difficult or whatever, if I'm going to be there for several minutes, I want to be having awesome fights, not just giving up. When my team falls behind by a bit in Alderaan and 5 people on my team go stand on our one side point because they are afraid to try, I am embarassed.

 

And this is a Star Wars game guys. I seem to remember the Empire having quite a lead in Episode IV, and my favorite part of the movie was when Luke, Leia, and the rest of the rebellion just decided to defend Yavin base and await their inevitable loss. Real thrilling.

[MorgonKara]

carebear thread is carebear

[DarkDruidSS]

If you are going to equate playing video games to being a soldier in a real combat zone then we're clearly never going to see on the same page.

 

The person in real life who "never gives up" is the winner, yes, because he is either dead or still alive. Bravo.

 

The person in SWTOR who knows when the warzone is lost and is frugal with his time is the winner because he has gotten more gear than you, and before you. If he is as skilled/more skilled than you, then he has an even bigger advantage. If he isn't as skilled as you, well getting geared quicker makes up for that disparity. Yes, you will eventually be as geared as him, but he will have enjoyed weeks more of facemelting than you.

 

Get in touch w reality. You can either spend x minutes getting y currency, or choose to spend MORE time to get LESS rewards. 999/1000 times you spend the 5 extra minutes left being stubborn in a Warzone and still lose the game.

 

But hey at least you get to be Leonidas on Bunker Hill defending The Alamo in your mind.

 

I'm done tapping the glass, fish will be fish.

 

I noticed that you have valor rank 80 in your sig. You know that in 1.2 your rank means nothing so the quicker you rank up means nothing? You like everyone else will have to buy your rated gear to get the next set. So all the time you tried to save by losing repeatedly will be wasted with 1.2.

[Tyraelium]

I've played sports pretty much all my life - soccer mainly, but also baseball and football. In my 35+ years of playing, I've been on teams covering the entire spectrum of skill, from league champions to basement dwellers struggling for a single win. Never have I played for a team that gave up when the game was lost - if it looked like you were giving up, you were yanked off the field and maybe booted from the team.

 

I know WZs aren't necessarily analogous to real life sports, but I can't shake that mentality - I don't even care about personal stats or medals, I just want to win (I'm a defender in soccer, so that mentality translates well). That's in my DNA and won't ever change. If folks want to give in to save 3 minutes, then I'm not going to begrudge them that ... but I won't be a part of it. I'll fight tooth and nail and don't pay attention to the clock or score. If you don't want me on your team I won't be offended, but I'm not going to let the other team win regardless

 

I can respect that at least. With a heavy sports background it probably can't be helped. However even consider that even in sports, facing a heavy defeat late in the game, it isn't unheard of for the bench to come in while the starting lineup heads to the locker room early. It is only during the playoffs and finals that we see the star players consistently staying in until the end.

 

Anyway in 1.2 the changes to WZ medaling should make this entire argument moot, since the other team will have a reason to keep trying until the end.

[OmySpy]

If you're willing to quit as soon as things don't look like they're going your way, you AREN'T a team player. You AREN'T someone that anyone can count on.

 

This is too true. I've been playing League of Legends for over a year now, and as much as I enjoy playing it, that game (and other MOBAs) have a serious problem with negative players. There are so many people who are eager to surrender, or just outright quit, a match that isn't going well for them. Sometimes they are right in assuming that a game can't be won, but many times they are wrong, and you can't know what will happen unless you keep playing. Those sorts of people bring down the rest of their teammates, and either by their attitude or by abandoning their team can make a possible win impossible.

 

I understand the mathmatical reasoning behind people who quit; quitting losing games may net you more physical rewards more efficiently, but doesn't anyone play for fun? I've had several big comeback wins in both LoL and SWTOR, and they were the most exciting and fun matches I've ever played. I am not happy to have those kinds of games robbed from me by people who give up.