The RP servers could do with some policing

[casirabit]

Good for you. Honestly, I think making the lore available and accessible to people who want it is a pretty cool thing, so well done you.

 

The part of it that bothers me, the thing that's finally driven me to weigh in on this topic and the reason I'm frankly amazed it's made it to... 13 pages, now, is when you say people should be forced to conform to your ideals, because them playing their game - which they pay for, mind you, just the same as you do - in a way that entertains them and their friends is somehow causing you something akin to physical pain.

 

I honestly do not understand why it is so difficult for you to ignore the stuff the bothers you. Why can't you let people play the game their way in their corner and then play the game your way in yours?

 

I don't particularly want to RP with magical sith-vampire-elves who can ride dragons and talk to mermaids, but if somebody wants to play that character, and he/she/it finds other, like-minded people who think "hey, that character is pretty cool" I wish them all the happiness in the world. It is a big game. There is an ignore feature.

 

Very nice post.

[SelinaH]

A hardcore RP'er is one who is more knowledgeable and follows the canon of the setting more closely. At least that is the definition I would use. A better term for the server could very well be the "Canonical" RP server.

 

Which version of canon is a "hardcore" RPer expected to follow? Is everyone on the restricted server expected to know the rules of canonical precedence, and to know exactly which bits and pieces of the lore belong to which type of canon in the case of contradictory information from different sources?

 

This is kind of a straw man. You know they wouldn't care about connection to figures (save for some issues.)

 

In other words, you're assuming the GMs would care *only* about the issues that bother you, and not the issues that might bother anyone else about *your* roleplaying, because you're so hardcore that you couldn't possibly be wrong?

 

A list of the most commonly acceptable behaviors and activities regarding the various uses. Basically have GMs who actually know Star Wars lore very well.

 

I would love to see the ruleset for this hypothetical server. Just to see if it's even possible to create a policy that's both clear and specific enough to prohibit all of the unwanted behaviors you complain about without hamstringing players' ability to make interesting and compelling characters or narratives.

 

Mostly names and behavior. They would simply have a policy that disallows "RP concepts" which violate the behavior and name lists.

 

If characters created on the "hardcore" server must conform to certain, very stringent, archetypes in every possible detail, what is the point of RPing? You could simply say, "I'm a Jedi!" and everyone would already know everything important about you. Small personal touches would be irrelevant, because you're a Jedi. Your backstory ultimately doesn't matter, because it can't possibly have affected your character in any way, causing you to *not* act like a Jedi. Nor would any future RP interactions matter, because character development in the direction of "not-Jedi" would be a bad thing. If all you're going to do is maintain your character's status quo indefinitely, why bother? Just write a fanfic and be done with it.

 

Honestly that is your choice. Nobody would force you to play on that server. You have never played a tabletop game though, if you had, then a GM telling you that your RP was unacceptable would not be that new of a concept. In fact that actually is part of the job of a good GM/DM.

 

Please do not make assumptions about the RP backgrounds of other posters. Some of us have been tabletoppers for longer than many players have been alive. There is also a vast difference between a friend or acquaintance guiding your game and a faceless GM enforcing a ruleset and administering punishments by pure letter of law.

 

Actually Slaine, I completely do have the right. Telling someone I don't like what they are doing isn't harassing, it isn't belittling either, it is criticizing which is something we are allowed to do. This is (for me at least) still America (and I play on American servers) where my right to freedom of speech and freedom of protest is protected.

 

Freedom of speech and freedom of protest do not apply to privately-owned fora.

 

I also don't WANT an inclusive community. Not in the way that you and Casi advocate. I would much prefer a positive and lore-conscious and lore-respecting community. Which will never happen if people are allowed to shirk the lore without anyone ever telling them that they aren't being respectful to the lore.

 

This pretty much says it all. Good luck with that.

[AlyxDinas]

I have the right to say whatever I want to whomever I want to say it to. That is a right I possess.

 

No. It is an ability. And one which should be exercised with caution and due deference for the person you are speaking to.

 

I also don't WANT an inclusive community. I would much prefer a positive and lore-conscious and lore-respecting community.

 

There is, quite literally, nothing mutually exclusive between these two things.

Edited March 28, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Marlon]

Please craft a policy with very clear rules regarding what is considered "appropriate" or "believable" that doesn't also impact the ability of well-intentioned, thoughtful and immersive RPers to choose a name that might be considered a little "outside the box." Then we can talk.

 

I'm not asking for much, I can't really draw up these sorts of rules but anyone who is actually old enough to play this game could easily work it out. I have no problkem if you mispell your first name to have a star wars name (peter could be Peetr or Lisa could be Leezar). It's not about being perfect it's about making an effort and being part of a community that wants to enhance how we all play.

 

 

I really don't understand how hard this all is for people to understand. It's a Role Plying server, you are meant to role play on it. Any other MMO would be policing it. It's not hard to figure what's acceptable and what's not. People who put their names in know whether they are creating a good name or not, and if you smile as you type in something witty (which in this day and age means not really funny) then you probably have the wrong name, and to be honest probably the wrong server.

 

Simple rule,

 

On top of all naming rules whilst playing on an RP server you will ensure that you character has an appropriate Sci-Fi/Star wars name. Please refrain from all silly and witty names such as Darth Bunny, Sargeant Bouncy, and upsydaisy. If you you need more clarification than that, rp servers aren't for you.

 

Under these rules someone with the name minimee (a name I have seen) would probably get away with it. But then who would care if there were only a few people rather than the tonnes there are. I will say this I have played on both empire and republic and this is much worse on the empire side.

[Renarkis]

Simple rule,

 

On top of all naming rules whilst playing on an RP server you will ensure that you character has an appropriate Sci-Fi/Star wars name. Please refrain from all silly and witty names such as Darth Bunny, Sargeant Bouncy, and upsydaisy. If you you need more clarification than that, rp servers aren't for you.

 

Under these rules someone with the name minimee (a name I have seen) would probably get away with it. But then who would care if there were only a few people rather than the tonnes there are. I will say this I have played on both empire and republic and this is much worse on the empire side.

 

You are being very vague, and then masking it by implying that anyone who doesn't immediately recognise the specific point at which a name crosses the line (which at this point only exists in your own mind) and becomes "silly" or "witty" is either lacking in intelligence or is a bad RPer. That's a pretty underhanded move, from my point of view.

 

If you could outline in specific detail where that line stands, and how you intend to protect legitimate RPers with unorthodox names from unnecessary persecution under this new regime of yours, I would be very grateful.

[Kharnis]

I'm not asking for much, I can't really draw up these sorts of rules but anyone who is actually old enough to play this game could easily work it out. I have no problkem if you mispell your first name to have a star wars name (peter could be Peetr or Lisa could be Leezar). It's not about being perfect it's about making an effort and being part of a community that wants to enhance how we all play.

 

 

I really don't understand how hard this all is for people to understand. It's a Role Plying server, you are meant to role play on it. Any other MMO would be policing it. It's not hard to figure what's acceptable and what's not. People who put their names in know whether they are creating a good name or not, and if you smile as you type in something witty (which in this day and age means not really funny) then you probably have the wrong name, and to be honest probably the wrong server.

 

Simple rule,

 

On top of all naming rules whilst playing on an RP server you will ensure that you character has an appropriate Sci-Fi/Star wars name. Please refrain from all silly and witty names such as Darth Bunny, Sargeant Bouncy, and upsydaisy. If you you need more clarification than that, rp servers aren't for you.

 

Under these rules someone with the name minimee (a name I have seen) would probably get away with it. But then who would care if there were only a few people rather than the tonnes there are. I will say this I have played on both empire and republic and this is much worse on the empire side.

 

How about the name "Luke?" That's not too Star Warsy, by your definition, since it's a real-world name.

What about "Wedge?" That's not even a name, that's a tool.

"Porkins" is right out, since it's quite obviously a silly name.

"Wicket?" Oh, that's definitely not an appropriate name, due to it being a turnstile.

"Biggs." I don't think I need to explain why this can't possibly be a Star Wars name fit for this game.

"Chewie." Quite clearly, this is just a re-spelling of "Chewy," which is obviously not acceptable.

"Ben" is another real-world name, so it's right out. It doesn't even have a second "n" at the end to Star Warsy it up.

"Mace" isn't a name; it's a weapon. It's got to go.

"Jar-Jar?" There's no way a name this silly should ever be allowed to exist, so it's got to go.

"Hobbie" is just a re-spelling of "hobby," which, as we've pointed out, is not permitted for a serious IP like Star Wars.

"Mon Mothma?" At this point, it's clear that people aren't even trying anymore. Naming a character after an insect? Really?

 

 

I'd be interested in hearing Lucas' defence of these names when the GMs flag them as clearly lore-breaking and very inappropriate for the IP.

[Marlon]

You are being very vague, and then masking it by implying that anyone who doesn't immediately recognise the specific point at which a name crosses the line (which at this point only exists in your own mind) and becomes "silly" or "witty" is either lacking in intelligence or is a bad RPer. That's a pretty underhanded move, from my point of view.

 

If you could outline in specific detail where that line stands, and how you intend to protect legitimate RPers with unorthodox names from unnecessary persecution under this new regime of yours, I would be very grateful.

 

 

I quoted that the name Minimee would probably have made it due to the rule. But once again, It's an RP server names are not meant to be silly or witty, there's no real line. What you want to know is how far you can push something.

 

Wow has policed their naming policy with the line.

 

Your name must be Medieval and that's pretty much it.

 

this rule is very simple, the only way you couldn't understand it is if you have some sort of problem., I don't get it are these people stupid?

 

If you don't understand what this rule means then it would be very difficult for you to have a coherent arguement. So you do understand but because we now live in the society of I can do what I want because I can, you invariably will.

 

To be honest this has run it's course, there are those that understand and those that choose not to understand so that they can argue and cause trouble. To all who understand me thank you. To those that understood and argued against as a contrast and for us to consider both sides (you know who you are) thank you.

 

To the rest, I'll just have to ignore you in game because a small amount of respect is too difficult a thing for you to have for your fellow gamer.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Marlon

[Freyrr]

I quoted that the name Minimee would probably have made it due to the rule. But once again, It's an RP server names are not meant to be silly or witty, there's no real line. What you want to know is how far you can push something.

 

So what you are saying that some how by some amazing coincidence there is not a single person in the entire Star Wars Universe that doesn't have a name that is silly or witty? You keep talking about how you don't get how people can't figure this out but you seem to be the one who is pretty clueless here. Would you say that it was overly silly and inappropriate if I say decided to RP a bio-engineered Ewok who just happened to be a rabidly bloodthirsty fighter pilot? Seems overly silly and out of place right? Go figure that is exactly what Wedge did at one point.

You seem to fail to understand that not everyone is a Jedi and out to uphold some grand code. When it comes down to it troopers and pilots and especially smugglers do plenty of silly and witty things so what is wrong with their names being silly or witty? They already have the ToS which clearly states that names such as Minimee are not acceptable and if you report these people they hopefully will do something about them. Beyond that who is to say what is a good RP name and what is not, just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. You need to get over yourself and grow up and realize that you are not always going to get your way and people are going to do what they enjoy doing. You cry about needing policing because these names are ruining your experience yet has it ever occurred to you that by trying to nag and harass people who are minding their own business just because you don't like their names is ruining their experience?

[SelinaH]

I'm not asking for much, I can't really draw up these sorts of rules but anyone who is actually old enough to play this game could easily work it out.

 

If it's so easy to work out, it should be easy enough to make into a proper rule for the rest of us. Clearly, you can't, so why are you expecting people to adhere to some nebulous standard of "acceptability" or "non-silliness?" Especially since, as Kharnis has so eloquently shown, even canon Star Wars names are often "non-Star Warsy" by your apparent definition.

 

I have no problkem if you mispell your first name to have a star wars name (peter could be Peetr or Lisa could be Leezar). It's not about being perfect it's about making an effort and being part of a community that wants to enhance how we all play.

 

But you're not looking at effort; you're looking at the result - the actual name itself. Taking effort into account would necessitate actually observing or interacting with a questionably-named character, to see whether the player is making a good-faith effort to roleplay and contribute to the server community. Apparently it's much easier for the self-proclaimed "hardcore" RPer merely to write off anyone whose name doesn't pass the "smell test" at first glance.

 

I really don't understand how hard this all is for people to understand. It's a Role Plying server, you are meant to role play on it. Any other MMO would be policing it. It's not hard to figure what's acceptable and what's not. People who put their names in know whether they are creating a good name or not, and if you smile as you type in something witty (which in this day and age means not really funny) then you probably have the wrong name, and to be honest probably the wrong server.

 

Again, if it's not hard to figure out, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to make it into a clear and specific rule. You have not done so. People do not always know whether they are creating a "good" name or not, because people do not necessarily have the same standards as you for what constitutes an "acceptable" Star Wars name. The naming standards of several posters who hold positions similar to your own would have disallowed the use of such canon names as "Ben," "Porkins" or "Wedge."

 

To say that people should simply be able to "figure it out" or they don't belong on an RP server is the height of arrogance, and has no place in a respectful debate. Please refrain from implying that people who do not think the way you do are dumb or childish, or roll on RP servers with the intent to grief.

 

Simple rule,

 

On top of all naming rules whilst playing on an RP server you will ensure that you character has an appropriate Sci-Fi/Star wars name. Please refrain from all silly and witty names such as Darth Bunny, Sargeant Bouncy, and upsydaisy. If you you need more clarification than that, rp servers aren't for you.

 

In other words, you must adhere to some vague standard that somebody somewhere decided was the right one, or you're not a true RPer? If it were such a simple rule, you'd be able to clarify it for all of us stupid people who don't belong on an RP server. Please do so. If you can't, how do you expect it to become part of an actual policy that sanctions paying customers?

 

Under these rules someone with the name minimee (a name I have seen) would probably get away with it. But then who would care if there were only a few people rather than the tonnes there are. I will say this I have played on both empire and republic and this is much worse on the empire side.

 

The developers are working on a tool that will allow you to make the nameplates of those on your /ignore list invisible. Feel free to use it when it becomes available.

 

I quoted that the name Minimee would probably have made it due to the rule. But once again, It's an RP server names are not meant to be silly or witty, there's no real line. What you want to know is how far you can push something.

 

Who decided that RP server names should not be "silly" or "witty?" You? Do you work for BioWare? This rule is nowhere in their current naming policy. How do you expect to have something like this enforced when even you yourself admit that "there's no real line?" And how are people supposed to avoid overstepping boundaries if there isn't one?

 

Please do not impute motives to other posters. You are not me, and you do not know what goes on inside my head. I have no desire to "push" anything. All but one of my characters were named using the random name generator. The exception is a Bounty Hunter with a non-silly callsign-type professional name appropriate for a mercenary.

 

I tend to get long-winded about this topic not because I myself would like to have a ridiculous name, or because I think that everyone should have one, but because I see the potential for more and stricter naming rules to adversely affect the ability of well-intentioned, immersive RPers to create the characters they would like. In my opinion, if a naming rule can do that (and most of the standards or guidelines suggested by the rules advocates can), then it's overly broad.

 

Wow has policed their naming policy with the line.

 

Your name must be Medieval and that's pretty much it.

 

this rule is very simple, the only way you couldn't understand it is if you have some sort of problem., I don't get it are these people stupid?

 

People are not stupid when they realize that vaguely worded rules can be interpreted in any number of ways - this is one reason we (in the US, at least) have a Judicial Branch. To take your example, what constitutes a "medieval" name? Are we talking *only* European medieval names, or are Asian names from the same time period allowed? How strict is the time period - are we allowed names from the Dark Ages, or the Renaissance? What about names that existed in medieval times, but are currently considered "modern" names - are those allowed?

 

Do not assume that people are unintelligent because they would like such questions answered before they create a character that might be sanctioned.

 

If you don't understand what this rule means then it would be very difficult for you to have a coherent arguement. So you do understand but because we now live in the society of I can do what I want because I can, you invariably will.

 

To be honest this has run it's course, there are those that understand and those that choose not to understand so that they can argue and cause trouble. To all who understand me thank you. To those that understood and argued against as a contrast and for us to consider both sides (you know who you are) thank you.

 

Your "coherent arguement" (sic) seems to consist mainly of stating a vaguely-worded preference, then claiming that anyone who doesn't understand it or agree with it is just dumb or a bad RPer. Insulting other posters and denouncing them as "troublemakers" is disrespectful and counterproductive. Most of the players in this forum, whether for or against additional naming rules, are posting because they want the game to succeed and the community to grow and thrive.

 

To the rest, I'll just have to ignore you in game because a small amount of respect is too difficult a thing for you to have for your fellow gamer.

 

Feel free to ignore me in game - if you even realize it's me. (I doubt it, since I'm actually *not* one of the "ridiculous name" people.) I suggest that, if you want to promote respect among the RP community, you stop telling people how to play *their* game, go play your own, and curtail your denigration of other posters in future attempts to bolster a weak and ill-advised argument.

Edited March 28, 2012 by SelinaH

[Darth_Slaine]

If it's so easy to work out, it should be easy enough to make into a proper rule for the rest of us. Clearly, you can't, so why are you expecting people to adhere to some nebulous standard of "acceptability" or "non-silliness?" Especially since, as Kharnis has so eloquently shown, even canon Star Wars names are often "non-Star Warsy" by your apparent definition.

 

 

But you're not looking at effort; you're looking at the result - the actual name itself. Taking effort into account would necessitate actually observing or interacting with a questionably-named character, to see whether the player is making a good-faith effort to roleplay and contribute to the server community. Apparently it's much easier for the self-proclaimed "hardcore" RPer merely to write off anyone whose name doesn't pass the "smell test" at first glance.

 

 

Again, if it's not hard to figure out, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to make it into a clear and specific rule. You have not done so. People do not always know whether they are creating a "good" name or not, because people do not necessarily have the same standards as you for what constitutes an "acceptable" Star Wars name. The naming standards of several posters who hold positions similar to your own would have disallowed the use of such canon names as "Ben," "Porkins" or "Wedge."

 

To say that people should simply be able to "figure it out" or they don't belong on an RP server is the height of arrogance, and has no place in a respectful debate. Please refrain from implying that people who do not think the way you do are dumb or childish, or roll on RP servers with the intent to grief.

 

 

 

In other words, you must adhere to some vague standard that somebody somewhere decided was the right one, or you're not a true RPer? If it were such a simple rule, you'd be able to clarify it for all of us stupid people who don't belong on an RP server. Please do so. If you can't, how do you expect it to become part of an actual policy that sanctions paying customers?

 

 

The developers are working on a tool that will allow you to make the nameplates of those on your /ignore list invisible. Feel free to use it when it becomes available.

 

 

Who decided that RP server names should not be "silly" or "witty?" You? Do you work for BioWare? This rule is nowhere in their current naming policy. How do you expect to have something like this enforced when even you yourself admit that "there's no real line?" And how are people supposed to avoid overstepping boundaries if there isn't one?

 

Please do not impute motives to other posters. You are not me, and you do not know what goes on inside my head. I have no desire to "push" anything. All but one of my characters were named using the random name generator. The exception is a Bounty Hunter with a non-silly callsign-type professional name appropriate for a mercenary.

 

I tend to get long-winded about this topic not because I myself would like to have a ridiculous name, or because I think that everyone should have one, but because I see the potential for more and stricter naming rules to adversely affect the ability of well-intentioned, immersive RPers to create the characters they would like. In my opinion, if a naming rule can do that (and most of the standards or guidelines suggested by the rules advocates can), then it's overly broad.

 

 

People are not stupid when they realize that vaguely worded rules can be interpreted in any number of ways - this is one reason we (in the US, at least) have a Judicial Branch. To take your example, what constitutes a "medieval" name? Are we talking *only* European medieval names, or are Asian names from the same time period allowed? How strict is the time period - are we allowed names from the Dark Ages, or the Renaissance? What about names that existed in medieval times, but are currently considered "modern" names - are those allowed?

 

Do not assume that people are unintelligent because they would like such questions answered before they create a character that might be sanctioned.

 

 

Your "coherent arguement" (sic) seems to consist mainly of stating a vaguely-worded preference, then claiming that anyone who doesn't understand it or agree with it is just dumb or a bad RPer. Insulting other posters and denouncing them as "troublemakers" is disrespectful and counterproductive. Most of the players in this forum, whether for or against additional naming rules, are posting because they want the game to succeed and the community to grow and thrive.

 

 

Feel free to ignore me in game - if you even realize it's me. (I doubt it, since I'm actually *not* one of the "ridiculous name" people.) I suggest that, if you want to promote respect among the RP community, you stop telling people how to play *their* game, go play your own, and curtail your denigration of other posters in future attempts to bolster a weak and ill-advised argument.

 

SelinaH has written and excellent post. I just wish to reinforce that if you are unable to articulate your argument, you cannot blame other people for not understanding what you are getting at. Never suggest people are stupid for disagreeing with you and recognize that if the "simple rule" were actually simple then you would be able to explain it clearly.

 

On a related note -- why isn't Peter a Star Warsy name?

Edited March 29, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[ProfessorWalsh]

SelinaH has written and excellent post. I just wish to reinforce that if you are unable to articulate your argument, you cannot blame other people for not understanding what you are getting at. Never suggest people are stupid for disagreeing with you and recognize that if the "simple rule" were actually simple then you would be able to explain it clearly.

 

On a related note -- why isn't Peter a Star Warsy name?

 

No. Actually SelinaH hasn't written an excellent post. There is no such thing as a "so clearly defined sentence that nobody could ever attempt to find a way around" in any context. You, and Selina are asking for a definition that in many cases goes beyond what the United States legal system uses.

 

If it's so easy to work out, it should be easy enough to make into a proper rule for the rest of us. Clearly, you can't, so why are you expecting people to adhere to some nebulous standard of "acceptability" or "non-silliness?" Especially since, as Kharnis has so eloquently shown, even canon Star Wars names are often "non-Star Warsy" by your apparent definition.

 

Kharnis has shown that he can try to find any loophole possible. You are asking for a "perfect" rule that "under no circumstances could be misconstrued by an end user" which as anyone can tell you simply is not possible.

 

But you're not looking at effort; you're looking at the result - the actual name itself. Taking effort into account would necessitate actually observing or interacting with a questionably-named character, to see whether the player is making a good-faith effort to roleplay and contribute to the server community. Apparently it's much easier for the self-proclaimed "hardcore" RPer merely to write off anyone whose name doesn't pass the "smell test" at first glance.

 

There are plenty of names I can list which are not Star Warsy.

 

Here are some examples that I have seen on RP servers:

 

MarinezRule

MasterChiefHalo

Chunkymunky

Chumbawumbah

Pewpewsmuggler

 

The fact is other games had more strict RP naming policies like Dark Age of Camelot. DAoC's only rule was that "the name had to be appropriate for the setting" and it was not more clearly defined than that. It doesn't need to be more defined than that for SWTOR either.

 

Again, if it's not hard to figure out, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to make it into a clear and specific rule. You have not done so. People do not always know whether they are creating a "good" name or not, because people do not necessarily have the same standards as you for what constitutes an "acceptable" Star Wars name. The naming standards of several posters who hold positions similar to your own would have disallowed the use of such canon names as "Ben," "Porkins" or "Wedge."

 

There doesn't need to be more of an explanation than:

 

"In addition to following the general TOS naming rules, all names must fit the setting of Star Wars. It is impossible to clearly define what this means, however names which appear to reference other media (IE Masterchiefhalo) or internet memes (Pewpewsmuggler) are likely not appropriate. Names will be evaluated for appropriateness on a case by case basis by the GM team. Any player who has a character name that is found in violation will have the opportunity to change that name at the time the player is notified of the issue."

 

To say that people should simply be able to "figure it out" or they don't belong on an RP server is the height of arrogance, and has no place in a respectful debate. Please refrain from implying that people who do not think the way you do are dumb or childish, or roll on RP servers with the intent to grief.

 

Please refrain from acting like people lack common sense. People don't name themselves things like "minime" by accident. These people know exactly what they are doing when they do it. They are trying to be funny, and that is fine, but it isn't something that should be appropriate for an RP server.

 

In other words, you must adhere to some vague standard that somebody somewhere decided was the right one, or you're not a true RPer? If it were such a simple rule, you'd be able to clarify it for all of us stupid people who don't belong on an RP server. Please do so. If you can't, how do you expect it to become part of an actual policy that sanctions paying customers?

 

See above. That is almost a word for word copy and paste from a rule that existed in another game and was perfectly implemented without causing anyone that I knew a single shred of a problem. Yes, I run with real life RP'ers who tend to be very experienced and tend to be mature, but I knew 12 and 11 year old kids who played DAoC who had no problem conforming to that loosely defined rule.

 

The developers are working on a tool that will allow you to make the nameplates of those on your /ignore list invisible. Feel free to use it when it becomes available.

 

Right.

 

Punish the people who want an in-depth, mature, RP'ing experience by forcing them to jump through hoops. We shouldn't need an extra tool to not encounter non-setting acceptable names on the freaking RP server.

 

Who decided that RP server names should not be "silly" or "witty?" You? Do you work for BioWare? This rule is nowhere in their current naming policy. How do you expect to have something like this enforced when even you yourself admit that "there's no real line?" And how are people supposed to avoid overstepping boundaries if there isn't one?

 

You are right, there isn't a line. The main line of complaint is that BioWare mocked the RP community by creating "RP servers" that gave no actual support to the RP community. They sold this game partially as being friendly to us, they sold this game supposedly with us in mind, and then their big "us in mind" was adding 2 letters to a server designation and absolutely nothing else.

 

We kind of have a reason to be angry with BioWare.

 

Please do not impute motives to other posters. You are not me, and you do not know what goes on inside my head. I have no desire to "push" anything. All but one of my characters were named using the random name generator. The exception is a Bounty Hunter with a non-silly callsign-type professional name appropriate for a mercenary.

 

I tend to get long-winded about this topic not because I myself would like to have a ridiculous name, or because I think that everyone should have one, but because I see the potential for more and stricter naming rules to adversely affect the ability of well-intentioned, immersive RPers to create the characters they would like. In my opinion, if a naming rule can do that (and most of the standards or guidelines suggested by the rules advocates can), then it's overly broad.

 

Yes. Some people would be annoyed and possibly inconvenienced by such a thing. There is no way around it. You cannot, however, make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

 

People are not stupid when they realize that vaguely worded rules can be interpreted in any number of ways - this is one reason we (in the US, at least) have a Judicial Branch. To take your example, what constitutes a "medieval" name? Are we talking *only* European medieval names, or are Asian names from the same time period allowed? How strict is the time period - are we allowed names from the Dark Ages, or the Renaissance? What about names that existed in medieval times, but are currently considered "modern" names - are those allowed?

 

Do not assume that people are unintelligent because they would like such questions answered before they create a character that might be sanctioned.

 

When they start requiring the US legal system to use such specific definitions of terms then you can make that argument. The truth is they don't. There are tons of things in the US Legal System that are very loosely defined.

 

Did you know that it is illegal to show obscene images in public?

 

Did you know that there isn't really a definition of what obscene images actually are?

 

We have lived with this law for decades on top of decades and society has not broken down.

 

Your "coherent arguement" (sic) seems to consist mainly of stating a vaguely-worded preference, then claiming that anyone who doesn't understand it or agree with it is just dumb or a bad RPer. Insulting other posters and denouncing them as "troublemakers" is disrespectful and counterproductive. Most of the players in this forum, whether for or against additional naming rules, are posting because they want the game to succeed and the community to grow and thrive.

 

Unfortunately on the Internet a large population of people are simply troublemakers. I'm going to quote BioWare here for a moment:

 

"Many players, are, for the most part, idiots."

 

That is an actual quote from a BioWare dev. This was, in regard I believe, to a question as to why there is no AoE friendly fire.

 

Feel free to ignore me in game - if you even realize it's me. (I doubt it, since I'm actually *not* one of the "ridiculous name" people.) I suggest that, if you want to promote respect among the RP community, you stop telling people how to play *their* game, go play your own, and curtail your denigration of other posters in future attempts to bolster a weak and ill-advised argument.

 

No. It is our right to talk about things that bother us. It is a weak and ill-advised argument that states that we have to be quiet and suffer in silence when our immersion and fun is threatened by behavior that we dislike.

 

I will not suffer or have my fun destroyed without voicing my concerns. I swore years ago that I would never stay silent when I saw something I was against. There is nothing, as in not a thing, anyone can say that would cause me to abandon my principles.

[Freyrr]

Ok since this thread has gotten to just page after page of the same arguments on both sides I'll admit that I'm just mostly skimming now but is it just me or does the whole "Well they do it in other games" argument just seem weak. I mean we have all played games with virtually no naming policies, at least I know I have and never had a problem. Can't we all just admit that this comes down to some people want everyone to play their way and others are going to fight that to the death on principle. Lets all just hug it out and go back to quietly hating each other.

[Darth_Slaine]

No. Actually SelinaH hasn't written an excellent post. There is no such thing as a "so clearly defined sentence that nobody could ever attempt to find a way around" in any context. You, and Selina are asking for a definition that in many cases goes beyond what the United States legal system uses.

 

I'm sorry, but I missed the part where SelinaH asked for the explanation of the OP's simple rule to be "so clearly defined sentence that nobody could ever attempt to find a way around." It might be my misreading, but I would appreciate it if you could save me the hunting and quote that section.

 

From what I read, SelinaH asked for clarification of the "simple rule." As far as I can tell, no one was discussing whether a rule could be made that was impossible to get around.

 

If the OP cannot explain what the mechanism for judging names as either compliant or in violation would be -- beyond using his own personal preference -- then he has not articulated anything that can be called a rule. I know it when I see it is not a good definition of Art.

 

Though I admit I may have missed where SelinaH made the claim you attribute to her, if you cannot show where the quote is taken from then I would have to conclude you are again misrepresenting the arguments of other posters. Once more I would ask you to refrain from such behavior.

 

Kharnis has shown that he can try to find any loophole possible. You are asking for a "perfect" rule that "under no circumstances could be misconstrued by an end user" which as anyone can tell you simply is not possible.

 

I believe she is looking for a rule better defined than "fits the setting" when the setting has such a wide and haphazard history of naming conventions.

She makes a good point about the vagueness of concepts like "medieval" and I think her argument is valid.

 

If speeding violations were when you got too fast, rather than when you exceed a set speed limit, we would have a lot of trouble.

 

There are plenty of names I can list which are not Star Warsy.

 

Here are some examples that I have seen on RP servers:

 

MarinezRule

MasterChiefHalo

Chunkymunky

Chumbawumbah

Pewpewsmuggler

 

See, I would think Chumbawumbah would be Star Warsy if you put it next to Chewbacca, Dagobah, Chume'da and Sleazebaggano. However, Chumbawumbah violates the existing naming rules, I believe, so it is unacceptable for a different reason.

 

Still, a handful of examples does not constitute a rule. You must show what it is that connects these examples.

 

The fact is other games had more strict RP naming policies like Dark Age of Camelot. DAoC's only rule was that "the name had to be appropriate for the setting" and it was not more clearly defined than that. It doesn't need to be more defined than that for SWTOR either.

 

Star Wars has much more diverse naming conventions than Camelotty medieval fantasy.

 

There doesn't need to be more of an explanation than:

 

"In addition to following the general TOS naming rules, all names must fit the setting of Star Wars. It is impossible to clearly define what this means, however names which appear to reference other media (IE Masterchiefhalo) or internet memes (Pewpewsmuggler) are likely not appropriate. Names will be evaluated for appropriateness on a case by case basis by the GM team. Any player who has a character name that is found in violation will have the opportunity to change that name at the time the player is notified of the issue."

 

If it is impossible to clearly define the terms and it is up to the sole discretion of the GM, then how can a player know when making his name whether it would violate the unwritten rule? How would anyone know what can or cannot be reported? The actual rules you mention (IP infringement and leet speak) are already against the rules, so why would we need a vague and puffed up reworking of a system that already does what you have asked?

 

 

Please refrain from acting like people lack common sense. People don't name themselves things like "minime" by accident. These people know exactly what they are doing when they do it. They are trying to be funny, and that is fine, but it isn't something that should be appropriate for an RP server.

 

There is no universal "common sense" that you can usefully appeal to -- beyond don't keep your hand in fire. If I were you, I would hesitate before making assumptions about the motivations of other people. To put it politely, you don't have a great track record in that field.

 

 

See above. That is almost a word for word copy and paste from a rule that existed in another game and was perfectly implemented without causing anyone that I knew a single shred of a problem. Yes, I run with real life RP'ers who tend to be very experienced and tend to be mature, but I knew 12 and 11 year old kids who played DAoC who had no problem conforming to that loosely defined rule.

 

See above: Why Star Wars is different than Arthurian-derived fantasy.

 

 

 

Punish the people who want an in-depth, mature, RP'ing experience by forcing them to jump through hoops. We shouldn't need an extra tool to not encounter non-setting acceptable names on the freaking RP server.

 

I would like to balance this with a later quote...

 

Yes. Some people would be annoyed and possibly inconvenienced by such a thing. There is no way around it. You cannot, however, make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

 

How do we move from clicking ignore is too onerous for players and is an unfair punishment to some people will be inconvenienced and annoyed but you have to break some eggs to make an omelet? Why is it not okay to annoy some players by making them click ignore but it is okay to annoy other players by imposing new restrictions on character creation?

 

You are right, there isn't a line. The main line of complaint is that BioWare mocked the RP community by creating "RP servers" that gave no actual support to the RP community. They sold this game partially as being friendly to us, they sold this game supposedly with us in mind, and then their big "us in mind" was adding 2 letters to a server designation and absolutely nothing else.

 

We kind of have a reason to be angry with BioWare.

 

Not all of us feel that way. Take it up with Bioware or cancel your subscription but don't take out your personal frustration on us.

 

 

When they start requiring the US legal system to use such specific definitions of terms then you can make that argument. The truth is they don't. There are tons of things in the US Legal System that are very loosely defined.

 

Did you know that it is illegal to show obscene images in public?

 

Did you know that there isn't really a definition of what obscene images actually are?

 

We have lived with this law for decades on top of decades and society has not broken down.

 

Actually there are definitions of what constitutes obscene material -- that's what is looked at when an obscenity case comes up. Obscene material needs to meet certain requirements.

I think this is a really good example though because with its "Fairly loose" definition the government has lost a great many obscenity cases because it has been unable to show how a work is obscene.... just as you are having a hard time explaining how a name is non-Star Warsy. Look to your own example and learn from it. Vague laws are not easily enforceable.

 

No. It is our right to talk about things that bother us. It is a weak and ill-advised argument that states that we have to be quiet and suffer in silence when our immersion and fun is threatened by behavior that we dislike.

 

I will not suffer or have my fun destroyed without voicing my concerns. I swore years ago that I would never stay silent when I saw something I was against. There is nothing, as in not a thing, anyone can say that would cause me to abandon my principles.

 

Certainly you may express your frustration, and we may disagree with you and pick holes in sloppy arguments.

 

As far as personal principles -- speaking out against everything you dislike is not inherently positive. I dislike the color maroon but I don't feel the need to express my opinion to people that delight in wearing the color. We do not need to make a point of loudly expressing our tastes in the face of adversity -- because our personal preference is unimportant.

 

I'd admire someone who would not be silenced when he felt there was injustice or real harm being inflicted on another being... but I don't think someone naming himself Darth Pony counts as inflicting harm on anyone.

 

Let us save our righteousness for actual issues.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[ProfessorWalsh]

Certainly you may express your frustration, and we may disagree with you and pick holes in sloppy arguments.

 

The only sloppy argument here is the one that states that we don't have the right to tell people when they are not being good roleplayers. The statement that there is no bad RP and that we should be afraid to speak out against such is ludicrous at best and trolling at worst.

 

As far as personal principles -- speaking out against everything you dislike is not inherently positive. I dislike the color maroon but I don't feel the need to express my opinion to people that delight in wearing the color. We do not need to make a point of loudly expressing our tastes in the face of adversity -- because our personal preference is unimportant.

 

No. Our personal preferences are not unimportant.

 

I'd admire someone who would not be silenced when he felt there was injustice or real harm being inflicted on another being... but I don't think someone naming himself Darth Pony counts as inflicting harm on anyone.

 

If it disrupts people's sense of immersion then it inflicts harm.

 

Let us save our righteousness for actual issues.

 

These are actual issues.

[Renarkis]

A lot of words.

 

 

 

I'm not going to touch this because I'm sure posters like SelinaH or Darth Slaine will be able to respond far more effectively than I could, as you seem to be directly addressing them.

 

However, I would really appreciate it if you could turn back a couple of pages and actually respond to my initial post in this thread (page 13), which was specifically directed towards you, ProfessorWalsh (something I felt was obvious, since I quoted you directly and all).

 

EDIT: And so they have!

Edited March 29, 2012 by Renarkis

[Freyrr]

Ya know I think a lot of you are actually not understanding the entire purpose of this argument. This is about naming policies for RP servers, not naming policies for the game in general. Most of you who are for these policies keeps giving these lists of names that you have seen and been upset with and are just looking like idiots to me in doing so. Now don't get me wrong I'm not defending these name, actually the exact opposite. The problem is when you point out names Masterchiefhalo or Chumbawumba or Hanzzolo or any of the 7 billion Fett rip offs you make your entire list loose its point in this argument which is names that don't belong on RP servers yet are fine on PVP or PVE servers. You see each of these names is against the ToS and therefore not acceptable on non RP servers. Besides pointing out the fact that Bioware doesn't police their current naming rules kinda hints at the idea that not only will they not add your precious new rules but even if they did they wouldn't really enforce them anyways. So I will look forward to the next post that someone makes about a name they saw and prepare to be disappointed once again in someone who can't be bothered to take the time to actually separate names that they think are wrong for RP servers and names that are just wrong in general.

[casirabit]

ProfessorWalsh;3666555] If it disrupts people's sense of immersion then it inflicts harm.

 

Again, how does a name disrupt immersion? You can ignore someone who has a name that you may think doesn't fit your idea of a name. You don't have to roleplay with them.

 

I have ignored names as it has no reflection on my immersion or my roleplay since it has no bearing on me. It really isn't that difficult to do.

 

Second, unless they roleplay an introduction I do not actually know their name.

 

Third, if it is one of those names you commented on those are against TOS and those should be reported and Bioware will take care of those. Those names are not allowed on any server period.

 

Fourth, names that are allowed that you may not think are "proper" names may not be a problem for someone else.

 

You have the ability to let someone disrupt your immersion. No one can disrupt your roleplay or your immersion unless you allow it.

 

The choice is yours to constantly complain about a name or something someone is doing that doesn't fit your idea of a roleplay or you can just go on and roleplay with the ones that roleplay like you do.

 

You either let someone ruin your immersion or roleplay or you don't. The decision is yours and yours alone.

 

Unless they are harrassing you personally there is no way they can really disrupt your play unless you allow it.

 

I for one do not let names disrupt my roleplay.

Edited March 29, 2012 by casi

[Smiert_Adda]

I agree that the RP servers need tighter controls. I think many of the names that I see are ridiculous, especially if I see a level 50 with a name like that. It just makes me lose a lot of faith.

 

 

 

I'll keep reporting them regardless. I also don't think that that warning is there.

 

I personally try and pick a name that I think fits my player and what I want him to represent but I find it hard without the ability to put in spaces or at least an underscore. Also I find the whole theme that SWTOR is set around a little ridiculous. The Empire is around at this time and all of a sudden it dies off all through Episode 1, 2 and 3 and all through these three movies it implies that the separtists are a new faction and everyone is a part of the Republic. In the movies the Sith work from the shadows and the Imperials have no idea what they're really working towards. In TOR they continue with this theme even though the Sith are taking a more active role in politics. They have tried to join these two time lines when there is no reason to. KOTOR didn't, it instead represented the beginning of what would be the Empire. I don't know where I'm going with this, I lost the original train of thought whilst ranting but I did get a little of how I feel across.

[Freyrr]

I personally try and pick a name that I think fits my player and what I want him to represent but I find it hard without the ability to put in spaces or at least an underscore. Also I find the whole theme that SWTOR is set around a little ridiculous. The Empire is around at this time and all of a sudden it dies off all through Episode 1, 2 and 3 and all through these three movies it implies that the separtists are a new faction and everyone is a part of the Republic. In the movies the Sith work from the shadows and the Imperials have no idea what they're really working towards. In TOR they continue with this theme even though the Sith are taking a more active role in politics. They have tried to join these two time lines when there is no reason to. KOTOR didn't, it instead represented the beginning of what would be the Empire. I don't know where I'm going with this, I lost the original train of thought whilst ranting but I did get a little of how I feel across.

 

Well a lot can happen in 3000 years. The Empire has come and gone before, the Republic and the Jedi have been pretty much wiped out a few times too. SWTOR is about 3000 years before the movies so it wasn't all of a sudden. As far as not having spaces or an underscore a lot of people seem to like using an ' to split things up. Plus preplanning your legacy name and title solves a lot of those problems, I hate seeing people try and put a Darth in their name when it is a title you can unlock in game. There are obvious downsides to the legacy name of course but thats for another thread.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I'm not going to touch this because I'm sure posters like SelinaH or Darth Slaine will be able to respond far more effectively than I could, as you seem to be directly addressing them.

 

However, I would really appreciate it if you could turn back a couple of pages and actually respond to my initial post in this thread (page 13), which was specifically directed towards you, ProfessorWalsh (something I felt was obvious, since I quoted you directly and all).

 

EDIT: And so they have!

 

A couple of things:

 

1. I have responded to that question before, in other threads, so I saw no need to do so again.

 

2. I am under no obligation to respond to anyone if I don't feel it.

 

Why don't I just ignore it?

 

Well for one, I shouldn't have to. On RP servers, which I play on because I like to RP, I shouldn't have to deal with things that specifically have nothing to do with RP or things which clearly were never designed with RP in mind.

 

This includes a character named:

 

Pewpewsmuggler.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Unless they are harrassing you personally there is no way they can really disrupt your play unless you allow it.

 

I for one do not let names disrupt my roleplay.

 

Casi, for me, at some point it becomes a matter of principle. This is one of those times.

 

Pewpewsmuggler, for example, is in no way against the naming conventions. It should be a fine name on a non-RP server. On an RP server BioWare should have never allowed for such a name.

[Guildrum]

Casi, for me, at some point it becomes a matter of principle. This is one of those times.

 

Pewpewsmuggler, for example, is in no way against the naming conventions. It should be a fine name on a non-RP server. On an RP server BioWare should have never allowed for such a name.

 

But where is the line drawn exactly? You have to think like someone from Bioware making the ToS, they have to be specific enough that you can't make easy loopholes around them, but you can't make it so specific that people are sitting there, legitimately hounding for a name that fits the ToS.

[casirabit]

Casi, for me, at some point it becomes a matter of principle. This is one of those times.

 

Pewpewsmuggler, for example, is in no way against the naming conventions. It should be a fine name on a non-RP server. On an RP server BioWare should have never allowed for such a name.

 

In other words instead of going on and having fun you are going to keep complaining about somethin that has no bearing on you. Life is too short to let someone disrupt your roleplay like you are doing.

[Darth_Slaine]

The only sloppy argument here is the one that states that we don't have the right to tell people when they are not being good roleplayers. The statement that there is no bad RP and that we should be afraid to speak out against such is ludicrous at best and trolling at worst.

 

No. Our personal preferences are not unimportant.

 

If it disrupts people's sense of immersion then it inflicts harm.

 

These are actual issues.

 

My friend, we have discussed before -- and I daresay I have mentioned it in nearly all my responses to your posts -- that you must not mischaracterize the arguments of others; yet you continue to do so. You became very fond of the term straw man a day or so ago and misapplied it to many things, but, if you will forgive me, you seem to be setting up an argument that no one has made simply so you can knock it down without acknowledging the true issue.

 

Consider:

 

The statement that there is no bad RP and that we should be afraid to speak out against such is ludicrous at best and trolling at worst.

 

Can you show me where anyone made that statement in this thread? In fact, no one has said that posters should be afraid to speak out -- several of us have supported building an inclusive and tolerant community... A goal that you disagreed with, I might add.

 

So, please, for the sake of brevity and clarity, do not make up positions to attack if you cannot respond to the actual argument.

 

I notice that you have not responded to anything that was actually said that challenged your position and you only seem to joust with imaginary wind-mills. There is no honor there and such behavior is not on-topic.

 

No. Our personal preferences are not unimportant.

 

If it disrupts people's sense of immersion then it inflicts harm.

 

These are actual issues.

 

Your personal preference may be important to you but it is not important to the rest of the community. It is not important to me and to many of the posters in this thread. Personal preferences are by their nature personal.

I am not interested in whether or not you like oatmeal or what your favorite football team is.

 

These are not actual issues -- these are vanity issues with less utility than chat bubbles. Your enjoyment of names is on the same level as my enjoyment of texturing in the game.... important only to the individual.

 

A couple of things:

 

1. I have responded to that question before, in other threads, so I saw no need to do so again.

 

2. I am under no obligation to respond to anyone if I don't feel it.

 

Why don't I just ignore it?

 

Well for one, I shouldn't have to. On RP servers, which I play on because I like to RP, I shouldn't have to deal with things that specifically have nothing to do with RP or things which clearly were never designed with RP in mind.

 

This includes a character named:

 

Pewpewsmuggler.

 

All this I do what I want and don't do what I don't want was something I believe you complained about in the title of your own verisimilitude thread. Yes, we know we can't make you eat your vegetables or do your homework because it is a free country -- let us take the point of free will as understood and move on.

 

Isolating your actual argument about the case at hand, it boils down to:you shouldn't have to ignore names you don't like... but why should players with those names need to change those names? By the same token, they shouldn't have to either. We can't say you must not infringe on my rights -- infringe on that guy's!

 

And before you say the player with the "non-Star Warsy name" does not have the right to it... He does. As the rules stand, he can name himself something that you feels breaks immersion without breaking the rules. You wish to reduce his rights.

 

Our argument has been, though you seem to have ignored it, that the burden is on you to show that reducing the existing rights of all players on RP servers for the increased enjoyment of some players will benefit the community more than it harms.

 

If breaking someone's immersion is "real harm" then restricting someone's name options is also "real harm."

 

Casi, for me, at some point it becomes a matter of principle. This is one of those times.

 

Again, saying that you will always complain when you don't like something is not a matter of principle. Children do it all the time but they aren't particularly principled -- in their case it has to do with a sense of entitlement and a degree of self-centeredness.

 

You are not a paragon of justice because you will not be silent when you don't like a TV show or a comic book or someone's name in a video game.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[AlyxDinas]

Pewpewsmuggler, for example, is in no way against the naming conventions. It should be a fine name on a non-RP server. On an RP server BioWare should have never allowed for such a name.

 

If it is not against the naming conventions, it is technically fine on any server. I know we are talking about if it "should" be but clearly the creators of this game and those who work to maintain and run it do not share in your notion of what should be. And it is their prerogative to do so. Furthermore, let us not, as you have, presume that the intent behind a name which doesn't fit your stringent mandates of what is acceptable or not, is always motivated simply through immature impulses. It is not only unfalsifiable (unless your powers of correctitude let you read the minds of people across the internet instead of just make sweeping assumptions about their thoughts as you are doing), but it is also pretty narrow minded.

 

Need you be reminded that people's motives for playing on an RP server are not always the RP? Or that sometimes people choose names they've previously had from prior games out of a sense of nostalgia, desire for continuity, or sentimentality? Did it ever occur to you, for instance, that "Marinezrule" might actually have chosen that name because they think Marines rule and not to troll you? Perhaps they are a Marine. It'd be no more egregious than encountering Lieutenant "Semper" of the Fidalis legacy. But since they chose to call themselves on an RP server, obviously their sole intention want to flip the metaphorical finger at you.

 

Besides, is a man walking around with the name Nougat any more threatening to your immersion than all the times you've died and miraculously survived? Does encountering him in a questing zone and ignoring his name any more difficult than ignoring the fact that you are, in fact, not a gallant Jedi Knight but a man sitting in front of his computer screen? I find it hard to believe that you, as a person of imagination and intelligence who engages in mental discontinuity ever time you play the game, cannot divorce yourself from a nameplate.

 

As to this notion:

 

If it disrupts people's sense of immersion then it inflicts harm.

 

All I will say is that you have a remarkably loose and shockingly simple notion of harm. Or at least a notion which conflates concepts such as annoyance, disapproval, and other such minor inconvenience with notions of actual harm. Unless you want to imply that a disruption of your immersion constitutes a sufficiently egregious act of moral or mental injury to you.

Edited March 29, 2012 by AlyxDinas