Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Quinlynn]

Not a problem. What I'm actually saying is not that stupid players bolster the argument, but rather that Bioware doesn't want players to have to use the number of medpacs they are currently using to "perform well." Nor did I suggest that medpacs alleviated the need for healers.

 

To clarify: Bioware probably saw something like this:

1. Team A (in PvP) has several players that are using medpacs on CD, Team B does not. Team A also plays less coordinated matches, uses poorer strategy, and perhaps has worse gear than Team B. Team A always beats Team B.

2. Ops group A uses medpacs on CD, Ops group B does not. Ops group A cleared HM EV without wiping once, Ops group B did not.

 

The concern is that being able to "spam" medpacs trivializes content and makes PvP less about the player and more about the resource pool (how many medpacs you have going into the match.) While you could certainly argue that the player without the medpacs is "stupid," you could also choose to see it as a slight decrease in the number of medpacs everyone needs to carry around. Going into an Op or WZ without medpacs is still sub-optimal, but now you don't have to bring 300 for a good four hours of warzone/Op.

 

Again, bad examples. Using smarter players that take med packs that anyone can get and comparing them to lazy or dumb players that don't use them is just not proof of anything.

 

Ignorance will never be an excuse.

 

Again, even a good PVP'er will beat a weak PVP'er that has a med pack. IE, not game breaking.

 

Green horn raid groups with the best med packs and good group composition still get wiped in OPS in Normal Mode.

 

Try again and stop using stupidiity as a reason for nefing game features.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Quinlynn

[iceperson]

itt: bad players who can't stay out of bad stuff

 

i think the silliest suggestion is the one where the guy basically said "balance the encounters around using X number of medpacks." haha

[Evel]

itt: bad players who can't stay out of bad stuff

 

Obviously you have never encountered a healer in Mind Trap and the other in Whirlwind by Soa. If fights going forward have this sort of RNG then players need to be able to use multiple Medpac's per fight.

[Calimwulf]

This might actually make it easier for them. In standard PvE and Story mode stuff encounters shouldn't be lasting to much longer than 90s, and alot of times less than that. It may hurt in those story situations against boss fights. But remember, some of the legacy skills might fill this gap.

 

But think of all the trash encounters that you can clear in less than 90s. I think your medpac will actually be available more often (imo, I see this leading to problems, but we will see).

 

I'm really not for the change because it will suck in Ops, and kind of sucks for biochem. But, I think the regular story and PvE will be ok, maybe better with the legacy additions.

I use a medpak as an 'oh crap'. If the PvE combat has dragged on long enough and I'm still 'a live' when the medpak is off cooldown, then why not let me use it?

 

If I'm in story mode or heroic/flashpoint mission in a PUG and the healer is consistently falling behind, then being able to use medpaks will help, not hurt, get through the content without wipes.

[unclekaula]

PvP?

 

What PvP fights are you in which last over 90 seconds? Healer vs healer? ROFL.

 

Maybe in Voidstar, as defender, I can see you being in combat > 90 seconds if you are amazing and never die. Maybe.

 

This change is a complete non-issue for PvP. This affects PvE Boss Fights tremendously, however.

 

 

This is an issue for pvp. Simply because you dont stay alive long enough for it to affect you doesnt mean its not impacting others.

[Unkknownsith]

It wasn't asked for? Really? People were all over the forums stroking e-peen about how "easy this game is" and "I'm so good I can just faceroll everything in this game" and "you need to make it all so much harder for 'hardcores' like me." Well, that's what BW is doing. Instead of re-tuning dungeons etc., they'er making it all harder by nerfbatting healers and other resources.

 

I'm pretty sure alot of this nonsense BW is trying to pull in 1.2 is a giant case of "be careful what you wish for."

 

Rofl OMG really Bioware you learned absolutely zip, nada, nothing from Blizzard did YOU.

 

Blizzard catered to the hardcores in Cataclysm and got a hemorraging account base for their troubles for their WHOLE expansion. They dropped a whopping 2.2 million accounts through Cata and while they saw drop offs in their previous expansion, it didn't happen until after everyone had seen and done the majority of the content.

 

Not so with Cata they took a major hit just 3 months after release, you haven't been out a year and your looking to join them in the hemoraging of accounts.

 

What really makes me laugh is these idiots who say games to easy, they never have all the hardmode and nightmare modes completed - I've not seen one of these idiots ever have EVERYTHING COMPLETED; yet they scream game's to easy.

 

For all those screaming games to easy, don't use medpacs period. ROFL like that will EVER happen.

 

BIOWARE don't get sucked in by this crowd, they DON'T want a harder game; they want EXCLUSIVE. If you pander to this crowd I predict you'll be free to play by 3rd quarter.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Unkknownsith
had to change emphasis on two items

[Urkanan]

And yet again PvE is suffering because of PvP...

 

Hey I have to say I do agree with you that (we) PvE players always get the short end of the stick due to PvP-driven adjustments (changes, nerfs, you name it), but this is good. Not specifically directed to you, but to the thread in general: I won't bother explaining why, because people don't see the benefit in further game design, all they know is they won't be able to kill SoA any more.

 

As I see it, currently people should be chugging medpacks pretty much on CD. The same way they pop their damage boosts / reductions. They don't realize by not doing so, they are using the healers resource instead of their own. The fact that they don't do it is keeping them from seeing the huge margin of potential healing devs have to play with when tuning fights.

 

But let's say somebody disagrees. Let's say medpacks are an Oh, Darn! button.

 

Hmm... if people are having more than ONE of those moments per fight, per player... do they really deserve to be clearing max-difficulty end-game content?

 

I find it kinda laughable when people say "don't nerf us, L2design harder fights"; in essence all I can read is "I am elite, but don't take away my safety blanket". I am not gonna tell you guys to L2P, cause I am terrible at it myself, but you should definitely accept that your place is very likely in the new, repeatable Story Mode. I'll see you there.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Urkanan

[ebunts]

Just to say I dont like this change. Seems to me this is something for guilds, which BW seems to think is the only player base in this game. If you dont think BW isnt catering to the guilds, especially the few large guilds, then ask yourself why was the summit for guild leaders only. Why is it that guilds are being invited to test 1.2. Where is the diversity in this.

 

Because I do solo, medpacs is my main healing. In a large group, especially for operations, you may have 4 or 5 main healers, 3 or 4 (if not more) secondary healers. So even if just the main healers you can get 4 or 5 AoE heals, not just 1. Now add in the secondary healers and each player having a medpac. You still end up with a massive amount of heals per combat.

 

Where does the solo player get these same heals, no where and its going to get even worse.

 

I play the game, not to have the best of everything. I play to have fun. I dont call it fun if I start dying 2 to 3 times more than what I die now.

 

Biochem crafting is a pure joke. This past week, I have logged in just to have my companions run missions just to get enough resources to make 4 or 5 medpacs. Im not staying in game half hour standing around to run the next set of missions. I generally log in twice per day to run the missions, and again im not staying in game waiting for my companions.

 

I also have couple charaters to run missions. One will do the dip. missions and the other the bio missions. Having missions that take 30 mins or so is just insane just to end up with maybe 2 resource when you need atleast 4 of that resource to craft one item. Then you wonder why many players cant find meds at reasonable prices if you can even find them.

 

Im already border line on weather I want to keep playing SWTOR or not. And I will give patch 1.2 a chance. But if this becomes worse to play than it currently is, then I will cancel without a second thought. Not making a threat just stating fact.

[nikthebeast]

This is a dumb statement.

 

healers have to stand freaking still to heal and so if you're running with the ball you are too far away or lose LOS to recieve a heal.

 

This is a stupid and ignorant design change to the game's mechanics and just make crew skills more useless.

 

If the healers haven't figured out how to move ahead with the ball carrier, they fail at healing in huttball. If you try and run all the way on your own, you fail at being a teamplayer(this sometimes work when facing people who don't know how to play huttball, eg, tunnelvisions and start focusing on kills).

 

Point is, don't try to be a hero. Play as a team. When you face a strong team you will absolutely not score if you try and walk all the way. Your team mates needs to run ahead, CC or get into a good position for a pass. Granted, I see people taking the same road over and over in a very predictable fashion.

 

If your getting out of combat, other than death, then you are failing your team and not trying hard enough.

 

...or you have moved ahead for a pass, guarding middle, killed someone, CCed and ran away(killing isn't always the best option as when you kill someone you've put yet another player between the ballcarrier and the score line, better to have em run the long way), etc etc. Stop calling other posters dumb when you seem work under the assumption that healers are stationary turrets and that combat is all-important.

 

You want to have a network of passes and hold mid. The less running with the ball the better. Holding mid is important because you don't want your opposing team to pick up and score with half(or more of your team on the opposite side).

 

Isn't always easy to achieve with solo qeue but simply saying "Try and keep ahead of the ballcarrier so he or she can pass and hold mid" at the start of the WZ helps a lot. A random group of players will all of the suddenly ressemble an working team. You won't look as cool on the end result with damage/healers but if your teammates do this you're going to find yourself with a lot of 6-0 games.

 

And at the same time I am a biochemist and I couldn't care less about these changes. Stims and adrenals are so much more important than anything else. At the same time, people have complained about "ez mode" of the PVE and now suddenly, this is a terrible and unsub-worthy change. Give me a break...

[dlaselle]

Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended.

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

1- There exists no mechanic to determine when a fight over and the next mob begins for your character alone. Considering that there exists a bug where you companion agros mobs on it's own now.... this becomes even more problematic.

 

2- Group mechanics currently can not differentiate if you are out of combat if your party wanders off and attacks something while you yourself are trying to catch a second wind. This is clearly demonstrated by elevators that will not let you use them if you party is in combat, loot boxes that can not be opened and the like.

 

2a- Does anyone NOT see a problem when -1- member of a Operation is -stuck- in combat mode and no one can use a med pack????

 

3-This change was not asked for by the player community.

 

I disagree. Med packs are not suppose to be pocket healers. They are suppose to give you a boost when things go bad.

[schnopsnosn]

Hey I have to say I do agree with you that (we) PvE players always get the short end of the stick due to PvP-driven adjustments (changes, nerfs, you name it), but this is good. Not specifically directed to you, but to the thread in general:

 

I won't bother explaining why, because people don't see the benefit in further game design, all they know is they won't be able to kill SoA any more.

 

As I see it, currently people should be chugging medpacks pretty much on CD. The same way they pop their damage boosts / reductions. They don't realize by not doing so, they are using the healers resource instead of their own. The fact that they don't do it is keeping them from seeing the huge potential healing margin devs have to play with when tuning fights.

 

But let's say somebody disagrees. Let's say medpacks are an Oh, Darn! button.

 

Hmm... if people are having more than ONE of those moments per fight, per player... do they really deserve to be clearing max-difficulty end-game content?

 

I find it kinda laughable when people say "don't nerf us, L2design harder fights"; in essence all I can read is "I am elite, but don't take away my safety blanket". I am not gonna tell you guys to L2P, cause I am terrible at it myself, but you should definitely accept that your place is very likely in the new, repeatable Story Mode. I'll see you there.

 

'The only fights where medpacks were necessary so far were Bonethrasher and, if you're unlucky, Karagga himself. As long as Bonethrasher keeps cleaving in a 360°-radious and Karagga drops twice the amount of DoTs and Mouse droids this is a terrible change to PvE.

I do understand nerfs if they are explained properly, this is something where BW is lacking in a way that is not funny anymore...

Also this is giving stealth-classes a huge advantage because they can vanish twice per fight and can use three medpacks per fight. I have a feeling that BW didn't think that far...

[RedWolfs]

deserve

 

Since when does any paying player not deserve to see the content they are paying for.... even if they fail. Epic elitist gamer tell. victory is earned, access is deserved by paying your sub. Anything else will sink a game, I have seen many mmo's sink as Dev's listen to the hard core or elitists.

 

Lets count the ways... SWG, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, and now SWTOR? ... I hope not, but I am seeing the signs on the wall. Why must a game make the same mistakes other developers have made before? Seriously computer science departments need to add a required course for game developers on MMO history, and how not to repeat others past mistakes.

[Pangscar]

Obviously you have never encountered a healer in Mind Trap and the other in Whirlwind by Soa. If fights going forward have this sort of RNG then players need to be able to use multiple Medpac's per fight.

 

I would suggest reading the post from Georg, he goes over why it was changed and how encounters will be made going forward.

 

If your a raider and have been for any time, adapting and overcoming to changes in the game is just a part of being a Raider. WoW made this same change years ago, we adjusted to the changes and moved on. The same will happen here.

 

Again, the ONLY mistake BioWare made was not having it this way from the start.

[schnopsnosn]

I would suggest reading the post from Georg, he goes over why it was changed and how encounters will be made going forward.

 

If your a raider and have been for any time, adapting and overcoming to changes in the game is just a part of being a Raider. WoW made this same change years ago, we adjusted to the changes and moved on. The same will happen here.

 

Again, the ONLY mistake BioWare made was not having it this way from the start.

 

It still doesn't make medpacs overpowered.

If I'm lucky I get 1/3 of my life healed(blue 48-Medpac) and that's about the amount I eat if Bonethrasher makes his ground-smash launching us in the air.

[dlaselle]

I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS CHANGE!!!

 

Let me just be clear, I have had multiple boss fights while leveling up toon's that required me to 'kite' to stay alive, hide behind obstructions, waiting for my med pack to refresh so I could use it and continue the fight.

 

Being able to use only 1, during any given fight, is a stupid idea. I don't not understand the logic or purpose of this change. It makes no sense.

 

I mean.. why am I showing you a picture of Chewbacca?? It makes no sense. If it makes no sense, you must acquit!

 

You truly don't understand the reason? Are you playing stupid or just plain stupid. Listen to your statement,

 

 

I have had multiple boss fights while leveling up toon's that required me to 'kite' to stay alive, hide behind obstructions, waiting for my med pack to refresh so I could use it and continue the fight.

 

 

That is like a marine saying, " Just run around and dodge bullets until the medic gets here"

 

Instead of revamping your stragedy you just want to run and cower and pop a pill.

 

LOl. pathetic...

[Urkanan]

Because I do solo, medpacs is my main healing. In a large group, especially for operations, you may have 4 or 5 main healers, 3 or 4 (if not more) secondary healers. So even if just the main healers you can get 4 or 5 AoE heals, not just 1. Now add in the secondary healers and each player having a medpac. You still end up with a massive amount of heals per combat.

 

Since you say you mostly solo, I won't hold it against you that you seem to think a 16-man group carries between 7 and 9 healers, so:

 

if you mostly solo... which fights are you getting on that last more than the 3 minutes of cooldown you have on medpacks?

 

Honestly sometimes I think half the people posting here do not even fully understand how this works.

[schnopsnosn]

Since you say you mostly solo, I won't hold it against you that you seem to think a 16-man group carries between 7 and 9 healers, so:

 

if you mostly solo... which fights are you getting on that last more than the 3 minutes of cooldown you have on medpacks?

 

Honestly sometimes I think half the people posting here do not even fully understand how this works.

 

PvE-medpacs were always 90s...

[Leskit]

This just makes it so you can be less stupid in PvE. Don't stand in bad sh*t and win, it's not hard.

[nikthebeast]

This just makes it so you can be less stupid in PvE. Don't stand in bad sh*t and win, it's not hard.

 

The golden rule of MMOs. "Don't stand in the green stuff!"(even though SWTOR seem to prefer purple).

Edited March 23, 2012 by nikthebeast

[schnopsnosn]

The golden rule of MMOs. "Don't stand in the green stuff!"(even though SWTOR seem to prefer purple).

 

As long as the bugs of Bonethrasher aren't fixed this isn't going to help you one bit...

[RedWolfs]

This just makes it so you can be less stupid in PvE. Don't stand in bad sh*t and win, it's not hard.

 

Not hard for you, not hard for me, but hard for some people. You know there are people in swtor that are in their first MMO right? Wow this thread has some over the top elitists in it.

 

Just because its not your strategy, or even a good strategy, doesn't mean the person doing it isn't having fun. Sure it might not work in an OP, not everyone will ever play in an OP.

 

Do you really want SWTOR to have fewer subscribers? Think hard about that, fewer subs means fewer dollars, fewer dollars means fewer people that BW can put to work making cool stuff for us. More fun for all, more dollars, more cool stuff for us. The math is simple here.

 

I will be pissed if BW pisses away their subscribers, and 1.2 is bad for casual type players, which is bad for the bottom line at BW, which is bad for raiders/hardcore types. This is how an economy works people.

Edited March 23, 2012 by RedWolfs

[Sunrock]

Medpacs can now only be used once per fight. When a medpac is used during combat, another cannot be used until after combat has ended.

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

1- There exists no mechanic to determine when a fight over and the next mob begins for your character alone. Considering that there exists a bug where you companion agros mobs on it's own now.... this becomes even more problematic.

 

2- Group mechanics currently can not differentiate if you are out of combat if your party wanders off and attacks something while you yourself are trying to catch a second wind. This is clearly demonstrated by elevators that will not let you use them if you party is in combat, loot boxes that can not be opened and the like.

 

2a- Does anyone NOT see a problem when -1- member of a Operation is -stuck- in combat mode and no one can use a med pack????

 

3-This change was not asked for by the player community.

 

I agree. They should be on a cool down timer. BioWare should have enough data by know how long an average fight is to come up with some good time to put on the cooldown.

[Urkanan]

Since when does any paying player not deserve to see the content they are paying for.... even if they fail. Epic elitist gamer tell. victory is earned, access is deserved by paying your sub.

 

That's what Story Mode is for. There you go, all the content is right there for you to enjoy.

 

I will disregard the fact that I understand you seem to think I am a pro, elitist gamer. I am pretty mediocre, but I am happy to play SM-HM and that's it.

 

I just don't need BW to lower the level of entertainment and challenge for other players, more skilled than me, and who pay the very same sub I do, just so that I can boost my epeen by walking the fleet sporting Campaign gear.

 

I don't need to hide my desire to have the best gear, regardless of my relative skill, behind the lame excuse of being entitled to access all game content just because I pay.

 

You sir, are in for a lot of disappointment IRL

 

Anything else will sink a game, I have seen many mmo's sink as Dev's listen to the hard core or elitists.

 

Lets count the ways... SWG, LOTRO, WOW, [...]

 

Can't speak for the first 2, but WoW failed because Blizz listened to all the morons who wanted access to everything, regardless of effort, skill or commitment, which trivialized the game deeply.

 

If someone was upset with Blizzard, it was the true hardcore who had fun when being able to play your class was not about topping the damage meter, which normally requires nothing more than 4-6 buttons and enough play time to farm enough consumables to chain-pot.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Urkanan

[Sunrock]

Not hard for you, not hard for me, but hard for some people. You know there are people in swtor that are in their first MMO right? Wow this thread has some over the top elitists in it.

 

Just because its not your strategy, or even a good strategy, doesn't mean the person doing it isn't having fun. Sure it might not work in an OP, not everyone will ever play in an OP.

 

Do you really want SWTOR to have fewer subscribers? Think hard about that, fewer subs means fewer dollars, fewer dollars means fewer people that BW can put to work making cool stuff for us. More fun for all, more dollars, more cool stuff for us. The math is simple here.

 

I will be pissed if BW pisses away their subscribers, and 1.2 is bad for casual type players, which is bad for the bottom line at BW, which is bad for raiders/hardcore types. This is how an economy works people.

 

Just like to add one point to yours. It's hard for those with performance issues... I mean hardware and/or network performance issues.

 

We have a guy in our guild that does not perform on a top level mostly because he is on a ****** computer with a ****** connection. Making him loose DPS and maneuverability slightly.

[Chewmeee]

I agree. They should be on a cool down timer. BioWare should have enough data by know how long an average fight is to come up with some good time to put on the cooldown.

 

How about letting Biochems use them more than once per fight? Where is the draw to a profession if you remove the benefit of the profession? Biochems should be able to use their re-usable rkata medpacs every 90 secs. Everyone else? Make it once per fight. You want to use more than once in a fight switch to Biochem. I see the devs heading down the wrong path with these kind of changes. Your going to dilute the crafting skills altogether making changes like this.