Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[nikthebeast]

Sorry, you're just wrong and showing some SIGNIFICANT ignorance. I never drop out of combat in huttball. Never. If you drop out of combat in huttball and you're not a stealther, you're doing it wrong.

 

That's just not true. If you are on the offence, ie, moving to score you should not get a new shot of medpacks on the way. Would be too easy. Learn to use cooldowns and pass the ball(if you're facing good players/premades, good luck walking all the way).

Healers are useful too, I hear...

 

You also drop out of combat when you win combats.

[Pangscar]

All MMo's i know created Raids or PvP Areas, but no one took us player the medikit like this. Don't change it. You see how much people wrote to you with some reasons why you are wrong!

 

WoW made this change 3-4 years ago. People adapted and overcame the changes then and they will now. The only real mistake BioWare made was not having it this way from the start.

[Ulmius]

For months people complained about biochem because of the reusable potions being a huge advantage. This is their way of countering it. Sure, they may say it's to help with making encounters, but I bet it has more to do with reusable potions. They said before they were going to get away from the reusable potion route, and what better way is there to do it than to allow you to use one potion a fight?

 

So for those of you that complained about reusable potions and how OP they are, congratulations, you got everyone nerfed.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ulmius

[netslave]

It's an intentional change. You can use 1 medpac per individual combat, not 1 per Flashpoint. That makes it much easier for us to balance a Flashpoint more tightly to player ability.

 

As long as 'more tightly balanced' means that players will not have to rely on the medpacs and either boss damage will not be so bad, or healers will have better abilities to keep people alive, then I'm all for it. I'm used to using only one healing item per fight anyway but it was nice to be able to watch out for my own health a bit more in SWTOR.

 

As for the Bios in here, get over it. I never bought a bio-made medpack anyway. Make and sell Stims/Adrenals. People will still buy that stuff throughout the life of the game.

[Quinlynn]

That's just not true. If you are on the offence, ie, moving to score you should not get a new shot of medpacks on the way. Would be too easy. Learn to use cooldowns and pass the ball(if you're facing good players/premades, good luck walking all the way).

Healers are useful too, I hear...

 

You also drop out of combat when you win combats.

 

This is a dumb statement.

 

healers have to stand freaking still to heal and so if you're running with the ball you are too far away or lose LOS to recieve a heal.

 

This is a stupid and ignorant design change to the game's mechanics and just make crew skills more useless.

 

About time this game just moves to consoles with a f2p model.

[Cbrinegar]

Sorry, you're just wrong and showing some SIGNIFICANT ignorance. I never drop out of combat in huttball. Never. If you drop out of combat in huttball and you're not a stealther, you're doing it wrong.

 

i think you are doing it wrong if you dont drop out of combat, my powertech and sorc both drop out of combat a few times, and my pt gets 7-10 medals on average on good nights, you arent always in combat.

 

So you follow the ball carrier to almost to your goal and some of his friends, you kill the carrier, and finish off his friends (still at your side of the field) when they are dead guess what .. your out of combat and running back to mid.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Cbrinegar

[Occams_Razor]

I think this makes sense. I've got a sentinal in my Ops group who goes through a stack of medpacks a night (when we AREN'T wiping.) And often, while it makes my life a bit easier because I triage him as a lower priority for healing, he's really using them when he doesn't need to for the most part.

 

Seems like this change allows people to play smarter, not harder.

[Beergogglez]

Sorry, you're just wrong and showing some SIGNIFICANT ignorance. I never drop out of combat in huttball. Never. If you drop out of combat in huttball and you're not a stealther, you're doing it wrong.

 

Calm down bro..*** are you talking about? I drop combat from huttball whenever i want too. *** are you saying?

[Quinlynn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by malignment

Sorry, you're just wrong and showing some SIGNIFICANT ignorance. I never drop out of combat in huttball. Never. If you drop out of combat in huttball and you're not a stealther, you're doing it wrong.

 

i think you are doing it wrong if you dont drop out of combat, my powertech and sorc both drop out of combat a few times, and my pt gets 7-10 medals on average on good nights, you arent always in combat.

 

So you follow the ball carrier to almost to your goal and some of his friends, you kill the carrier, and finish off his friends (still at your side of the field) when they are dead guess what .. your out of combat and running back to mid.

 

I agree with the poster above and not with you. it is rare in Hutt Ball that I am out of combat and 9/10 times I die before that happends. Medpacks are not game breaking period and any suggestion that they are is just stupid, uninformed and ignorant. More over clearly indicates how badly BW / EA failed at testing if there is imperical evidence that med packs are game breaking.

 

Again, reusable med packs are the same or weaker than consumables that only have a combat level requirement. The only OP'd feature of reusables is that you are not spending credits. This is a perfect example of QQ'ing tards getting their way becuase devs are too lazy to learn thier own game.

[Solonius]

I don't find it hard to drop from combat in Huttball, but I do find these changes to medpacs pretty ignorant.

 

I guess the development team has never run Soa NiM or Rancor NiM.

[Cbrinegar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by malignment

Sorry, you're just wrong and showing some SIGNIFICANT ignorance. I never drop out of combat in huttball. Never. If you drop out of combat in huttball and you're not a stealther, you're doing it wrong.

 

 

 

I agree with the poster above and not with you. it is rare in Hutt Ball that I am out of combat and 9/10 times I die before that happends. Medpacks are not game breaking period and any suggestion that they are is just stupid, uninformed and ignorant. More over clearly indicates how badly BW / EA failed at testing if there is imperical evidence that med packs are game breaking.

 

Again, reusable med packs are the same or weaker than consumables that only have a combat level requirement. The only OP'd feature of reusables is that you are not spending credits. This is a perfect example of QQ'ing tards getting their way becuase devs are too lazy to learn thier own game.

 

your free to not agree, but my statement is not any less true, im sure alot can tell you that you due in fact drop out of combat a good 3-4 times a huttball match, you might not pay attention but you do, you know like when you hear the swish sound and can run at normal speed, or the red gun in the center of the main ui vanishes, like when someone engages you one on one and you win your out of combat. Now for you you might stand in mid and play mid defense and try to engage everyone you see, thats your choice, but by your own choice you dont drop out of combat, thats your fault not the games. People that follow the ball carrier trying to keep them from scoring will drop out easily when the carrier dies, or people that get stuck in one on one combat do drop out. To say that you dont drop out is an indication that your not playing right is plain foolish. If you stay in mid and dont try to stop the ball carrier some might say thats foolish, but thats a strategy also to try to keep the other team from grabbing the ball, but thats also the highest traffic area. regardless i dont see this as that big of a deal and i am a BC with rakata medpacks and i look forward to adapting to the change as it will make it more of a challenge, and less of a hand me .

 

I am also an advocate of making fire and acid strip all speed buffs from players and making the ball carrier not able to jump, force run etc. Which before someone gets all hot and bothered was just something i saw posted by a player, i like the idea is all, not that it was suggested by the DEVS.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Cbrinegar

[Occams_Razor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by malignment

Sorry, you're just wrong and showing some SIGNIFICANT ignorance. I never drop out of combat in huttball. Never. If you drop out of combat in huttball and you're not a stealther, you're doing it wrong.

 

 

 

I agree with the poster above and not with you. it is rare in Hutt Ball that I am out of combat and 9/10 times I die before that happends. Medpacks are not game breaking period and any suggestion that they are is just stupid, uninformed and ignorant. More over clearly indicates how badly BW / EA failed at testing if there is imperical evidence that med packs are game breaking.

 

Again, reusable med packs are the same or weaker than consumables that only have a combat level requirement. The only OP'd feature of reusables is that you are not spending credits. This is a perfect example of QQ'ing tards getting their way becuase devs are too lazy to learn thier own game.

 

Since we're arguing over anecdotal evidence, I think it might be appropriate to use less name-calling and ad hominem attacks. While many of us disagree with your opinion that this change is uncalled for, that doesn't mean you should feel entitled to insult our intelligence.

 

Allow me to break down your argument for you, so that you might understand why we disagree with you: "Using medpacs off CD doesn't break the game, it's necessary. This change wasn't needed because using medpacs off CD is necessary based on my understanding of my experience of Huttball."

 

If there is evidence that suggests that players with reusable medpacs (or even consumable ones) which they use on CD during PvP matches and PvE boss fights are beating content (or other players) more rapidly and consistently than those who do not, this change levels the playing field.

[Quinlynn]

your free to not agree, but my statement is not any less true, im sure alot can tell you that you due in fact drop out of combat a good 3-4 times a huttball match, you might not pay attention but you do, you know like when you hear the swish sound and can run at normal speed, or the red gun in the center of the main ui vanishes, like when someone engages you one on one and you win your out of combat. Now for you you might stand in mid and play mid defense and try to engage everyone you see, thats your choice, but by your own choice you dont drop out of combat, thats your fault not the games. People that follow the ball carrier trying to keep them from scoring will drop out easily when the carrier dies, or people that get stuck in one on one combat do drop out. To say that you dont drop out is an indication that your not playing right is plain foolish. If you stay in mid and dont try to stop the ball carrier some might say thats foolish, but thats a strategy also to try to keep the other team from grabbing the ball, but thats also the highest traffic area. regardless i dont see this as that big of a deal and i am a BC with rakata medpacks and i look forward to adapting to the change as it will make it more of a challenge, and less of a hand me .

 

If your getting out of combat, other than death, then you are failing your team and not trying hard enough.

 

We can agree to disagree and has no real bearing on the pure stupidness of changing med packs.

[Urkanan]

It is an economic fix for PVP as you were supposed to be using the PVP stims as a credit sink.

 

Players were rolling biochem and using the reusable medpacs instead. This added on top of the credits earned per warzone has skewed the economy.

 

PVE players have repair as a credit sink whereas PVP players do not.

 

If you noticed, the PVP stims now cost 20 wz comms instead of 10 wz comms and have had their CD cut in half from 3 mins to 1.5 mins. This again is to encourage you to use the stims as your credit sink and part of the economic changes to PVP. Have you also noticed that credits earned per warzone have been decreased significantly?

 

BW will likely phase out all reusables and add better consumables in the future to biochem. It's definitely a nerf to biochem but it is needed for a healthier game economy going forward. You wont see any good news to biochem for maybe another patch or two AFTER the economy has been re-balanced somewhat.

 

I had lost my faith in finding a single comment here from somebody who understood the way these things evolve.

 

Thanks, buddy

 

Also, I do agree with the opinion that BW should put more effort in fixing current content. If what people say is true and SoA is STILL that buggy, it really hits the nerve when they seem so full of themselves about releasing a new Operation, a new FP, etc.

 

In all honesty I still have high hopes for a big change in direction here, at least now that they seem to be about to implement the content they most likely thought they'd ship with on release.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Urkanan

[schnopsnosn]

I had lost my faith in finding a single comment here from somebody who understood the way these things evolve.

 

Thanks, buddy

 

And yet again PvE is suffering because of PvP...

[Cbrinegar]

If your getting out of combat, other than death, then you are failing your team and not trying hard enough.

 

We can agree to disagree and has no real bearing on the pure stupidness of changing med packs.

 

again if you followed the ball carrier to say the down ramp near your teams start point, and you kill the carrier, and a couple of his friends how are you supposed to be back in combat with noone around cause again you just killed them all? hence you would be out of combat, and kept them from scoring.. aka helped your team.

[KorinHyvek]

>.> The trip down to the next level on Soa just got that much more frustrating.

[Quinlynn]

Since we're arguing over anecdotal evidence, I think it might be appropriate to use less name-calling and ad hominem attacks. While many of us disagree with your opinion that this change is uncalled for, that doesn't mean you should feel entitled to insult our intelligence.

 

Allow me to break down your argument for you, so that you might understand why we disagree with you: "Using medpacs off CD doesn't break the game, it's necessary. This change wasn't needed because using medpacs off CD is necessary based on my understanding of my experience of Huttball."

 

If there is evidence that suggests that players with reusable medpacs (or even consumable ones) which they use on CD during PvP matches and PvE boss fights are beating content (or other players) more rapidly and consistently than those who do not, this change levels the playing field.

 

Your assumption that anyone goes into a fight with out medpacks only indicates you are using stupid players to bolster a weak argument.

 

Medpacks are available to all and any good raid group is going to tell all members to be sure to have them. Also there is nothing about medpacks that aleviates the need for healers, PVE or PVP, so how could there be any imperical evidence as you suggest, IE, not like groups with out healers and only med packs are completing OPS even in easy mode. For certain not HM / NM. Nor do Premades think a good group does not include a healer.

 

Try again.

[Quinlynn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKnave

It is an economic fix for PVP as you were supposed to be using the PVP stims as a credit sink.

 

Players were rolling biochem and using the reusable medpacs instead. This added on top of the credits earned per warzone has skewed the economy.

 

PVE players have repair as a credit sink whereas PVP players do not.

 

If you noticed, the PVP stims now cost 20 wz comms instead of 10 wz comms and have had their CD cut in half from 3 mins to 1.5 mins. This again is to encourage you to use the stims as your credit sink and part of the economic changes to PVP. Have you also noticed that credits earned per warzone have been decreased significantly?

 

BW will likely phase out all reusables and add better consumables in the future to biochem. It's definitely a nerf to biochem but it is needed for a healthier game economy going forward. You wont see any good news to biochem for maybe another patch or two AFTER the economy has been re-balanced somewhat.

 

I had lost my faith in finding a single comment here from somebody who understood the way these things evolve.

 

Thanks, buddy

 

I had lost my faith in finding a single comment here from somebody who understood the way these things evolve.

 

Thanks, buddy

 

Your both uninformed and wrong.

 

All reusables are the same as consumables, IE nohting overpowered about them when you have to be 380 to 400 Biochem to use them.

 

Many prefoer to use the "prototype versions" because they have an added HOT that the resuables do not have. Those are consumables and cost credits and only have a lvl requirement.

 

Both of your statements only indicate that you are not informed about how med pack stats work in game atm.

 

Try again.

[Quinlynn]

again if you followed the ball carrier to say the down ramp near your teams start point, and you kill the carrier, and a couple of his friends how are you supposed to be back in combat with noone around cause again you just killed them all? hence you would be out of combat, and kept them from scoring.. aka helped your team.

 

I never said that I NEVER get out of combat, only that it is not the norm.

 

Again, nothing about Med Packs is game breaking or unbalancing when all players have access to them in one for or another.

 

Reusables are not more powerful than what is available to players with out Biochem.

 

Prove othewise if you think it is so.

[Occams_Razor]

Your assumption that anyone goes into a fight with out medpacks only indicates you are using stupid players to bolster a weak argument.

 

Medpacks are available to all and any good raid group is going to tell all members to be sure to have them. Also there is nothing about medpacks that aleviates the need for healers, PVE or PVP, so how could there be any imperical evidence as you suggest, IE, not like groups with out healers and only med packs are completing OPS even in easy mode. For certain not HM / NM. Nor do Premades think a good group does not include a healer.

 

Try again.

 

Not a problem. What I'm actually saying is not that stupid players bolster the argument, but rather that Bioware doesn't want players to have to use the number of medpacs they are currently using to "perform well." Nor did I suggest that medpacs alleviated the need for healers.

 

To clarify: Bioware probably saw something like this:

1. Team A (in PvP) has several players that are using medpacs on CD, Team B does not. Team A also plays less coordinated matches, uses poorer strategy, and perhaps has worse gear than Team B. Team A always beats Team B.

2. Ops group A uses medpacs on CD, Ops group B does not. Ops group A cleared HM EV without wiping once, Ops group B did not.

 

The concern is that being able to "spam" medpacs trivializes content and makes PvP less about the player and more about the resource pool (how many medpacs you have going into the match.) While you could certainly argue that the player without the medpacs is "stupid," you could also choose to see it as a slight decrease in the number of medpacs everyone needs to carry around. Going into an Op or WZ without medpacs is still sub-optimal, but now you don't have to bring 300 for a good four hours of warzone/Op.

[Mirthadrond]

I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS CHANGE!!!

 

Let me just be clear, I have had multiple boss fights while leveling up toon's that required me to 'kite' to stay alive, hide behind obstructions, waiting for my med pack to refresh so I could use it and continue the fight.

 

Being able to use only 1, during any given fight, is a stupid idea. I don't not understand the logic or purpose of this change. It makes no sense.

 

I mean.. why am I showing you a picture of Chewbacca?? It makes no sense. If it makes no sense, you must acquit!

[Lugosi]

Sir, respectfully, what you do in PvP or in Hard or Nightmare raids to tune difficult is up to you folks, but leave standard PvE and Story mode a lone. Anything that makes it difficult for first time content users to accomplish 'normal' stuff is going to have negative consequences.

 

This might actually make it easier for them. In standard PvE and Story mode stuff encounters shouldn't be lasting to much longer than 90s, and alot of times less than that. It may hurt in those story situations against boss fights. But remember, some of the legacy skills might fill this gap.

 

But think of all the trash encounters that you can clear in less than 90s. I think your medpac will actually be available more often (imo, I see this leading to problems, but we will see).

 

I'm really not for the change because it will suck in Ops, and kind of sucks for biochem. But, I think the regular story and PvE will be ok, maybe better with the legacy additions.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Lugosi

[RedWolfs]

It's an intentional change. You can use 1 medpac per individual combat, not 1 per Flashpoint. That makes it much easier for us to balance a Flashpoint more tightly to player ability.

 

Then 1.2 will make the beginning of the end for SWTOR. This game started with a format that was friendly to casual players, the changes in 1.2 are all hostile to this group. How many people dropped their subs after 1.2's release notes were published? Really was there too much healing going on in this game? The excuse "we are too lazy to account for medpacks in fights so we needed to reduce their influence in the game" is piss poor.

 

These are incredibly dumb changes to the game balance, and horrid communications going with them. The bait and switch of releasing one game and making it a very different game four months post launch, SOE got hit with legal action for that behavior. Why don't you just rename 1.2 NGE and be done with it?

 

Oh well, guess its time to start waiting for the third Star Wars MMO, third times the charm right?

[Evel]

I disagree with this change as well. What BioWare should do is see (on average) how many times Medpac's are actually being used per fight and then base future encounters on that average for difficulty. They should not want to punish players that want to use Medpac's nor punish BioChem's that are already going through huge changes making the profession less warranted.