The Myth of the SW:ToR Story; No it can't support an MMO.

[RodneyMmKay]

At the moment "story" is supporting the entire game. And I don't mean in a good way.

 

"Endgame" and the state its in is barely ever mentioned on podcasts or by my friends. It's a painful and embarrassing subject like so many others we just don't want to mention.

 

At the moment the only thing I really do "endgame" is alt's. I level through for class story then more or less dump them, much like a discarded comic.

 

I'm just churning out alts as I go through BW's mmo story. But something is missing. I don't know if BW haven't left enough room for other peoples stories or what but this mmo is definitely starting to lack that certain something that makes mmo's a pleasure.

 

After playing Swtor since launch my pleasure meter is at an all time low and I've filled my plate with lashings of story.

 

Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt?

[ConradLionhart]

It is still very soon to tell. I give them credit for DARING to do what no other MMO has done; put back RPG into MMORPG. But a few promises have been broken.

 

Non-linear questing isn't that non-linear, though there is some diversity. Of course having to deal with multiple branches is too much, so I understand.

The possibility of companions backstabbing me. Is it possible or taken out?

The leveling experience will not be the same once you roll a new alt. Well true for class stories, but the generic missions are still the same.

 

So I'm not some fanboy that automatically thinks this MMO is perfect. It's more like I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

I am particularly impressed with social points. I leveled with someone at the start and it was fun watching each other's class stories. It was also fun participating in conversations. It didn't feel like 2 people doing 2 separate quests. It felt like 2 people being part of the same quest.

 

And when you have a 4 people handing in the mission, hoho, it felt like 4 heroes who just defeated the evil enemy. I just wish that after clearing a hard mission, I can buy my 3 comrades a round of drinks at the cantina on a job well done. But it isn't possible.

 

So a lot of potential is there. I guess the initial promises were too much to keep, but I give them A for effort.

[davidpop]

It is still very soon to tell. I give them credit for DARING to do what no other MMO has done; put back RPG into MMORPG. But a few promises have been broken.

 

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

[ConradLionhart]

Story is important. People will play a well-told story.

 

Take a look at what the backlash of Mass Effect 3's endings caused. It is even on the BBC.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17458208

 

Never have people been so engrossed in the story, that they feel completely ripped off at the ending and demand it to be changed.

 

They didn't care about the gameplay. They didn't care about the graphics and sounds. They cared about the story more. Yeah, all those people who think that this game is nothing more than "kill 10 boars with cutscenes and voice conversations"? Story does matter.

 

A story is a good incentive to play a game. And I don't blame Bioware for taking this gamble that it may work in an MMO.

 

I do hope that you are wrong OP, that story can't support an MMO. I hope Bioware proves people wrong.

Edited March 22, 2012 by ConradLionhart

[Gokkus]

Dont play a story driven MMO if you dont like the story. What do you want them to do, remove the story part of the game? Without VO I would be following a lot less of the story so I think it is a great addition to the game.

 

You dont like the game than dont play it. If everyone would agree with you there would be a lot less subs. Unless you are lying and you are still playing the game of course.

[Goretzu]

There's two main weaknesses to the story:

 

 

1. Alting through them - by the 3rd or 4th time (YMMV) it does get very boring.

 

2. Lack of easy expandability - as you can see by Ilum where they just start using pre-recorded "canned quotes" which make the quests seem very, very artificial, and sometime don't even make much sense in the context of the quest text, even though they are still technically "voiced".

[davidpop]

Dont play a story driven MMO if you dont like the story. What do you want them to do, remove the story part of the game? Without VO I would be following a lot less of the story so I think it is a great addition to the game.

 

You dont like the game than dont play it. If everyone would agree with you there would be a lot less subs. Unless you are lying and you are still playing the game of course.

 

Or people could come here and discuess what they like, as well as what they dont like about the game.

 

You know, use the forums for the purpose they are here for....

[Kriotic]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

Nothing will ever be YOUR story unless you go out and write a book. Although, that might be too hard of a task for yourself.

 

 

 

Also, to the OP, maybe the problem is you are on your 15th (or 30th or 100th or whatever exaggeration is cool with you) alt character? Maybe you should take a break, go outside, play another game. I hear Mass Effect 3 has a pretty controversial ending, maybe you could play that and go rage on those forums? I'm sure you rage on quite a lot of forums. Anyways, calm down man and take a break from the game, it'll still be here later (contrary to what you may believe), and there will be more content for you to (hopefully) enjoy. If not, unsubscribe. Nothing lost. More MMOs will come out later this year that you and the hate groupies can complain about.

[Lethality]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

This could derail the thread topic, but I agree... the "story" is told, and we're participating in it. Which I'm actually 100% ok with, but it makes the illusion of choice frustrating and honestly a waste of time.

 

I like how Blizzard tells story in WoW, through action and demonstration... yes, I don't have to answer some specific choice, and it's not about _my_ character, but in the end if it doesn't matter, than it doesn't matter.

 

Even in Mass Effect 3 with all of the outcry... the outcry is because the story is essentially the same, despite choices made along the way.

 

To me, story and character progression in a computer RPG should be about things that happen organically, not canned pre-written story choices which end up feeling sterile anyway.

 

So, I love the _importance_ BioWare puts on story, but especially in an MMO, I don't feel the _execution_ works.

[RodneyMmKay]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

^this^

[Gokkus]

Or people could come here and discuess what they like, as well as what they dont like about the game.

 

You know, use the forums for the purpose they are here for....

 

Although you have a point, someone who skips the story and says his pleasure meter is at an all time low should not be playing this game. You cant expect the game to change on a fundamental level.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Gokkus

[Lethality]

Dont play a story driven MMO if you dont like the story. What do you want them to do, remove the story part of the game? Without VO I would be following a lot less of the story so I think it is a great addition to the game.

 

You dont like the game than dont play it. If everyone would agree with you there would be a lot less subs. Unless you are lying and you are still playing the game of course.

 

VO is a separate issue all together. You don't need it to enjoy a great story... take a good old-fashioned book for example!

 

Also, with the option of interactivity in a game, it's a perfect opportunity to tell a story through demonstration, not just watching digital actors outside of actual "gameplay."

[Kaphik]

Some of you don't seem to understand roleplaying video games. There is always a story to follow, and you guide your character through it. The only place to create a totally unique character story is in a paper rpg with a cooperative GM, and even he may limit you depending on the game and world lore he has set. The reason that won't work in an online MMORPG is because a consistent game experience is required. The closest you may come to creating what you want online is in Second Life.

[DieAlteHexe]

There's two main weaknesses to the story:

 

 

1. Alting through them - by the 3rd or 4th time (YMMV) it does get very boring.

 

I thought that might be the case too and, sometimes, it is but I have found that with different characters and different chosen responses, things can be rather different.

 

2. Lack of easy expandability - as you can see by Ilum where they just start using pre-recorded "canned quotes" which make the quests seem very, very artificial, and sometime don't even make much sense in the context of the quest text, even though they are still technically "voiced".

 

More artificial than the same thing in other games? Don't think so. In other games it's same diff. 'cept that it's just text for the dailies etc. So, I think that complaint is more that there's not enough at level-cap rather than story issues.

 

Opinions.

[RodneyMmKay]

Story is important. People will play a well-told story.

 

Take a look at what the backlash of Mass Effect 3's endings caused. It is even on the BBC.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17458208

 

Never have people been so engrossed in the story, that they feel completely ripped off at the ending and demand it to be changed.

 

They didn't care about the gameplay. They didn't care about the graphics and sounds. They cared about the story more. Yeah, all those people who think that this game is nothing more than "kill 10 boars with cutscenes and voice conversations"? Story does matter.

 

A story is a good incentive to play a game. And I don't blame Bioware for taking this gamble that it may work in an MMO.

 

I do hope that you are wrong OP, that story can't support an MMO. I hope Bioware proves people wrong.

 

I think interestingly enough. That is the danger.

 

That story has become so much that all the things that went into making an mmo really good are given lower priority. This is why ability firing was off for abilities at launch. etc Until all your left with is a serialized comic released yearly with in game (soft grinding included).

 

I was struck by a documentary on Pinball I watched the other day when they were talking about the tactile "feel" of a game and its connection to a player. (You'd get it if you ever watched a professional pin ball guy play). I still don't feel "it" for this game or any class I've played yet. (I play heavy PvP).

 

I wanted BW to prove the mash up could work, but I think story (closly followed by its friend Cash Cow) will over rule any dissenting voice.

 

This game has at least 1 year of hard work to make it an mmo.

 

At least.

[davidpop]

Nothing will ever be YOUR story unless you go out and write a book. Although, that might be too hard of a task for yourself.

 

 

 

Also, to the OP, maybe the problem is you are on your 15th (or 30th or 100th or whatever exaggeration is cool with you) alt character? Maybe you should take a break, go outside, play another game. I hear Mass Effect 3 has a pretty controversial ending, maybe you could play that and go rage on those forums? I'm sure you rage on quite a lot of forums. Anyways, calm down man and take a break from the game, it'll still be here later (contrary to what you may believe), and there will be more content for you to (hopefully) enjoy. If not, unsubscribe. Nothing lost. More MMOs will come out later this year that you and the hate groupies can complain about.

 

I wasent raging....

 

Again, i am using these forums for the very purpose they were made for.

 

Talking about SWTOR, both the good and bad sides.

[Gokkus]

Some of you don't seem to understand roleplaying video games. There is always a story to follow, and you guide your character through it. The only place to create a totally unique character story is in a paper rpg with a cooperative GM, and even he may limit you depending on the game and world lore he has set. The reason that won't work in an online MMORPG is because a consistent game experience is required. The closest you may come to creating what you want online is in Second Life.

 

This made me think of the extra credits story telling vid. It really helps in understanding how story telling in games works. Here´s the link:

[davidpop]

Some of you don't seem to understand roleplaying video games. There is always a story to follow, and you guide your character through it. The only place to create a totally unique character story is in a paper rpg with a cooperative GM, and even he may limit you depending on the game and world lore he has set. The reason that won't work in an online MMORPG is because a consistent game experience is required. The closest you may come to creating what you want online is in Second Life.

 

I understand it.

 

But just call it like it is, we are telling you a story, insted of trying to sell it as my story, because, it isent.

 

SWTOR is a good game and i do enjoy it, i just wish it was abit more sandboxy

[British]

At the moment "story" is supporting the entire game. And I don't mean in a good way.

 

"Endgame" and the state its in is barely ever mentioned on podcasts or by my friends. It's a painful and embarrassing subject like so many others we just don't want to mention.

 

At the moment the only thing I really do "endgame" is alt's. I level through for class story then more or less dump them, much like a discarded comic.

 

I'm just churning out alts as I go through BW's mmo story. But something is missing. I don't know if BW haven't left enough room for other peoples stories or what but this mmo is definitely starting to lack that certain something that makes mmo's a pleasure.

 

After playing Swtor since launch my pleasure meter is at an all time low and I've filled my plate with lashings of story.

 

Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt?

 

I'm not an MMO player, I'm a Bioware and Star Wars player. The thought of grouping up and completing operations etc.. well I just don't know how to do it!

 

My biggest issue is not endgame, it's bloody crashing. I went though the whole of Beta with no CTD and then go away for a bit and uninstall my beta client, re-install from the disks and BAM! Crashes twice a night at least and LOOOADS of lagging now.

 

I'm now running through Sith Warrior for the third time.. and it's totally different each time, I'm playing though light and trying to get Vette (as I've messed this up last time).

 

I have all the other classes to play though! So while you say the story isn't enough, I say it is for me! I say forget about endgame and lets have some more story! Yes you skip some things with alts but not everything.

 

I'm not able to play more than a few hours in a night, sometimes going a few nights without a chance to play.

 

I would kill to have this game as a single player off line game! Maybe I just proved your point

[Kaphik]

I understand it.

 

But just call it like it is, we are telling you a story, insted of trying to sell it as my story, because, it isent.

 

SWTOR is a good game and i do enjoy it, i just wish it was abit more sandboxy

 

Sandbox does not automatically equate to "make my own story". I will, however, agree with you that I would have liked to see much more choices and paths available in the story we get to follow on our characters. Perhaps the only way that could have really been done is if we didn't have to choose a specific class for the first 10 or maybe 15 levels and then the choices we made turned us into an advanced class. Then we continued on into the different story that each class got. Maybe in a future MMO something like that would be possible.

[Reico]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

Out of curiosity, what non pen and paper rpg lets you create your own story?

 

I don't remember any video games lately, do tell.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Reico

[RodneyMmKay]

Dont play a story driven MMO if you dont like the story. What do you want them to do, remove the story part of the game? Without VO I would be following a lot less of the story so I think it is a great addition to the game.

 

You dont like the game than dont play it. If everyone would agree with you there would be a lot less subs. Unless you are lying and you are still playing the game of course.

 

I like the story but I can only take so much. And I would actually like to play a game when I hit 50. Not just take up an afternoon.

 

It's the fact that "story" is all there is at endgame at the moment that's at issue.

 

SWToR won the Story Oscar. I don't think anyone would disagree. But I think I can say after 4 months of uninterrupted playing and listening to general feed back, it won a raspberry for its mmo features.

 

I'm playing the game. Because I want to see what it was supposed to look like for launch (i.e. Patch 1.2 included) After that I'll make my choice where to jump. But that's not the point really.

 

I'm more interested to hear peoples thoughts. Thanks for yours.

[Quantum_Icecube]

I'm having a blast. Legacy level 15. Go play something else, haters.

[Goretzu]

More artificial than the same thing in other games? Don't think so. In other games it's same diff. 'cept that it's just text for the dailies etc. So, I think that complaint is more that there's not enough at level-cap rather than story issues.

 

Opinions.

 

 

Well the problem is although they change the quest text response, the actual thing your character says is just one of a few (usually short) canned quotes.

 

 

Hearing "I will crush them" for the 1000th time does get old, especially when it's in response to a variety of text responses.

 

This doesn't really become apparent till some of the later bonus quest sets and Ilum especially, suggesting they were developed after the voice actor were done and dusted, I'd guess.

[Master-Nala]

Personally, the story is the only thing that has made this game more engaging that the multitude of fantasy MMOs out there. MMOs have devolved to the point where they are power acquisition games. Most of the crap people are asking for on these boards are just means to get their pellets more efficiently.

 

The story isn't engaging to many folks because they aren't engaging the story. So many people here see the story as an impediment to the game, when instead IT IS THE GAME. Ridiculous endgame loot grinds don't make a MMO either.

 

I remember when I first started playing these games. I didn't even consider 'raiding' as that term is understood now. I used to have fun just exploring and living in another world. Just the wonder of different locales. Making my character as 'uber' as possible wasn't even a consideration. I only wanted to get more powerful so you could adventure more places.

 

I play SWTOR as an online version of the PnP Star Wars RPG. I long ago stopped worrying about the endgame loot grind. I enjoy playing my 50s because I enjoy playing them. Finding things for them to do, helping others, exploring places on my own and not just looking up datacron locations.

 

I feel sorry for Bioware and most other MMORPG developers. Blizzard mastered the Skinner box model of MMOs and folks now demand it. That's not what MMOs used to be about. MMOs used to be about living in another world. Not making numbers ever bigger.