Feedback request from James Ohlen: PvP

[farfulnugen]

Adjust the resolve system so you can't be stunned etc., several times in a row making you useless.- make stuns etc., shorter duration. When we're locked out of our abilities all the time, we become essentially useless.

[drosalion]

My 1 change would be to actually optimize the game engine so that large-scale, open-world PVP is actually viable and playable.

 

Assuming thats never going to happen, I would like roots/snares to add to resolve (for melee classes at the very least) and the outright removal of expertise.

Edited March 22, 2012 by drosalion

[ArmoredJuneBug]

Get rid of the offensive bonuses from Expertise (+damage% +healing%).

 

Damage output in PvP is too high overall, the fact that a PvP-exclusive stat exacerbates the problem is excessive.

[VainEldritch]

I'd like to see guild-held objectives on Ilum. This would be like the "Battle Keep" system from Age of Conan where a guild earns the right to hold a station on Ilum that has windows of vulnerability when it can be attacked by rival guilds/alliances.

 

This system worked brilliantly for Age of Conan - technically (from the outside) it seemed problematic as Keep sieges were frequently made harder or indeed impossible due to bugs/lag. But these are technical matters and you asked for ideas.

 

[Deesasther]

Removal of stealth, invisible people is just borked and on gameplay level it just makes things less tactical. But since this is not gonna happen, more wzs please.

[LongGui]

Remove expertise

[Eggsalicious]

1. Get back to archetypes, get away from tanky dps meta

2. Remove expertise

3. Make Valor matter

 

~Sig

[BuzzDog]

 

If you could make one change to PVP in SWTOR, what would you want it to be?

 

 

Having played TWO tank classes since release, Darkness Assassin and Immortal Juggernaut, I would like to see better damage mitigation in PvP.

 

As it is now, the majority of all damage in PvP receives little to no mitigation from Defense, Shield Rating, Shield Absorption, and Armor. The only real self mitigation that tanks have in game is expertise ( which is available to everyone through gear ) and a handful of talents that are on cool downs. In PvP tanks do not fill the traditional role of a meat shield that they do in PvE. Instead in PvP in ToR, a tank provides damage mitigation to the group members through a few mechanics ( guard, taunt, intercede, etc. ). They also provide a some utility through crowd control mechanics to interrupt the opposition.

 

Currently in game including the PTS, a "tank" is better off choosing the DPS set offered to them instead of the TANK set.

 

This topic has been brought up many times but I have yet to see any comments from BW on the subject. Is the current system indeed working as intended? If not, when will it be looked at and addressed?

 

I would make the suggestion to solve the issue by introducing new mods and enhancements that would have resistance values for all damage types. For example, elemental, internal, etc.. That way a player could itemize his character to help mitigate damage.

 

I have been playing MMO's going back to UO. In the majority of all MMOs there has been resistance gear available. In order to increase you resistance you had to sacrifice something. Currently in ToR you sacrifice little to nothing as a tank by choosing to not equip the tank armor sets, and gain quite a bit by equipping the DPS sets.

[Katharsis]

I dont understand , why ppl want expertise removed ? Ppl with full rakata or X pve gear will rule pvp aswell if they remove expertise. I dont pve at all , but im doin pvp almost every day for 3 months now. If some random dude which same class with me comes and overdmg me in warzone in full PVE gear and do better overall everything i would quit pvp at that moment.

Expertise is key to balance between pvp and pve. It should stay for sure.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Katharsis

[whyonlyletters]

Stop copying WoW with all of its mistakes and start swiming in the sea by yourself.

[deneric]

A big problem I've been noticing lately is resolve. Now, I'm glad it's there and all, but it's been seeming a bit unbalanced/balanced. For instance, as a Sith Sorcerer, I can fill your resolve in two shots (Electrocute + Overload, at least assuming I have that Overload talent that makes freeze you for a couple seconds).

 

There have also been times where, for whatever reason, attacks that SHOULD affect it, don't. I remember one time getting stunned three times in a row, checking my resolve to see if it'd be safe to break out of it, and discovering that my resolve bar was EMPTY. That makes no sense to me.

[Tobashi]

a) remove expertise

 

b) let only BGs begin when there really is an 8 vs 8. So many times now seen BGs on rep side that begin with 3-6 vs 8 imps, sucks. Also dont allow players to leave BGs or give them a 2 hour deserter debuff for PvE AND PvP...

 

c) Remove stuns/mezzes or let you only get stunned/mezzed once a minute. ATM you get stunned to death...

Edited March 22, 2012 by Tobashi

[toolkit]

Stop copying WoW with all of its mistakes and start swiming in the sea by yourself.

 

This!

[xHurogx]

Get rid if pvp STATS! Ruins low rank experience and just makes high ranking people bored because they never die. Expertise is seriously bad for the enjoyment of pvp. If anything, make pvp gear with just the bonuses and different skins so we dont ALL LOOK ALIKE PLEASE.

[Tonymitsu]

I find it amazing how many people want expertise gone. Can any of you remember S1 WoW arena and how much of a stink the PvE'rs threw over the items from PvP items being of equal quality to the raid items? I do.

 

Yes.

 

And yes.

 

We threw a stink because you could PUG a random 2v2 group, lose 10 battles a week for about two months and have a full set of epic PvP gear. Is it cutting edge? No, but with Resilience added it didn't matter. If someone without Resilience tried to fight you, they lost.

 

Same thing here.

 

The reason those arguments died down has nothing to do with improvements to the system. It's that the people who dabbled in PvP with their raid gear no longer care, because they don't PvP any more.

 

 

Fact is, every one of you lack the vision of your own argument. Lets say they do get rid of expertise... Bioware says themselves that they are pleasantly surprised how many people PvP in this game. Are you going to allow the PvP only players to have equal gear to what you can obtain in PvE? If you say yes, then I don't have a problem with your argument because you are truly wanting a level playing field. Just try to remember resil/expertise was originally conceived of to stop the tears of the PvE'rs... not the PvP'rs.

 

If you'd bother to read my post, you'd see I wholeheartedly support equal rights to equal gear.

I see no difference between doing raids to get drops and doing matches to earn points to buy drops. Same time is invested either way.

It's just that I staunchly refuse to invest twice the time to do both.

 

You'd also see that I explained thoroughly why Resilience was implemented. It had nothing to do with raiders complaining about PvPers. That argument makes no logical sense, as Resilience would ultimately prevent people who raid from engaging in PvP. Unless you claim that raiders where whining about PvPers bringing PvP gear to raids.

 

O, and to the guy who just wrote that novel of a post, Tomyitsu... PvE isn't hard. At all. PvE is more about politics and managing schedules than about skills in the game. In the era of youtube, tankspot, sithwarrior and other sites where you can watch a walk-through of every encounter before your guild steps into fight... how you can honestly believe PvE is harder is just beyond reason. I have some friends in Blood Legion WoW and they even agree that unless you are on the bleeding edge of PvE progression, PvP is harder. Flat out. Sorry.

 

 

...Are you honestly trying to argue that a game isn't hard because you are playing with a strategy guide sitting in your lap?

 

Because I can say the same thing for when you go online to look up the most current cookie cutter PvP spec for your class, an acceptable priority rotation, specific strategies to counter other classes, and gear and stat weights. Unless you are doing the work to discover all those things for yourself it's basically the same thing as watching a walk-through video... or watching someone beat a boss, reloading a save, and then being handed the controller. It's only a matter of time and practice until you replicate that.

 

Here's an experiment for the next video game you buy: Do no prior reading on how to play it. Don't even look in the instruction manual. When you start a new game, set the difficulty one step higher than default, and turn off the in-game hints and tutorials.

 

Fair warning though, WoW is a stupidly easy game even on the bleeding edge of PvE progression.

[RawHead]

Resolve needs some tinkering. Many times it would take up to 3 different CC's before the meter fills, and then you are already stunned for 3*4-8 seconds and very likely dead. It is such a bore tbh.

 

Also, very often when I (as an assassin) try to pull people the skill will go on CD but no pull is made, even though target does not have a full resolve meter. So I ruin my CD for nothing and get no feedback on why..

[hooj]

Honestly?

 

Dev insight on PvP changes.

 

This would open a can of worms, but the single most frustrating and (largely incorrect) speculation inducing aspect of PvP changes is this: There. Is. No. Dev. Explanation.

 

Now I'm not saying that every detail should be included, but a nice problem, approach, solution explanation model would be absolutely fantastic.

 

There are changes in the upcoming 1.2 patch that seem absolutely ridiculous, BUT, perhaps they are completely justified. However, we'd never know because its shrouded in mystery.

 

So say there's data to back up a change. How awesome would it be if this was stated? Pretty freaking awesome.

 

Of course, there would still be the whiners and complainers, but I'm willing to bet the vast majority of players would read dev notes and really appreciate the insight.

[Levine]

Make Outlaw's Den work- all the benefits of the fleet or maybe a guild-capturable objective that allows fast transportation to and from the fleet. Put some actually interesting items on the killable NPCs. Add a Hutt Cartel GTN kiosk. Faster respawn on the nodes and treasure chests, maybe a few open-world mission skill "nodes", mercenary drops on kills (wasn't this something we were told we'd get here?), NO DAILIES! Just make it some place people go to for pvp that groups of people/guilds can try to hold long term. I love Ilum, but I'm not sure you guys will do what it takes to fix it. Outlaw's Den is probably more feasible and, in the long run, easier, since FFA and a lack of dailies means only PvPers would hit it up and mainly to *gasp* get world pvp.

[Costello]

Make PvP meaningful faction based content and not the fight clubbing dumbed down 2nd rate xbox style expertise/token grind that it currently is.

 

While it is very easy to say people like FPS shooter Co op play style war zones, just look at the numbers if you took the expertise and token grind out of it I suspect there would be almost no reason to play. Now that you have made even more warzones same faction it dumbs it down even further and takes it into the levels of fight clubbing.

 

PvP in a faction based MMO is ment to be about US vs Them not Us vs Us and then Me Vs someone I was just helping cause we rolled on the opposite side. One of the few things Warhammer Age of Reckoning did right was the RvR lakes and the tier based keep/objectives where you had a reason to PvP even though yes the end of the day it did reset. One of the best memories I have of SWGs is the Bestin Anchorhead battles and then yes Restuss.

 

Instead the SWTOR team have looked at the numbers of people that play warzones and said more people play that it must be what people want. You put a leaver in that gives people 100 expertise and all the top tier PvP armour in and I think you would find that was even more popular. Which by that reasoning you should focus on putting leavers in that give people top tier characters at creation. The Warzone is just the easiest way to get expertise and armour and with open world PvP almost pointless is the reason more people play warzones than open world.

 

So you have to bring in faction control, encourage faction loyalty and make it so fighting in open world PvP is fun and rewarding. But more than this PvP should build community and not turn the experience into a mindless fight club all about expertise and tokens.

[Malleki]

If I only had one change, it would be on resolve. I have no issues with how it works or triggers, but roots are currently unaffected by resolve.

 

I would change roots so they would add a small ammount of resolve to the target (about 1/3 of an equivalent stun) and not work on a 100% resolve target, like all other CC.

 

To a melee DPS a root almost as crippling as a stun, if noone is in your range of 4m then your practically useless. Sure you can pop a defence cooldown, but it's an instant shutdown.

When chained correctly with stuns you can render a melee DPS, no matter how good the player, useless until death. When Ranked PvP hits and more organised groups start to appear I think this is going to become a bigger problem.

 

I can understand why slows are not on resolve, but roots are a different story entirely.

 

I imagine a few people are un-aware that roots do not affect resolve and work on a 100% resolve target at the moment. I'd not be surprised if thats why alot of people think resolve is not functioning correctly either. Personally I can't say I've had any issues with resolve and it's function on myself or any target in PvP.

 

There are plenty of other things I'd change and tweak, but if I only had one thing I think that would be it. In general I'm very happy with the PvP in this game.

[botantard]

the pvp utility in swtor is awful, bioware have aimed for mere balances among classes and rather than focus on what may make a class unique, instead we have all been equipped with generic stuns, pushbacks and breaking effects.

what this will lead to is very uninteresting rated combat, perhaps i am making a somewhat null and void point, it appears most of the community is aware of this and its hardly as if bioware intend to do anything, but just to iterate the point; bioware have not made a game with enthusiasm and passion, more and more it becomes apparent that the old republic is but a profit venture on the career map of bioware.

I have played PvP on several different games at often respectable ratings or standings, i am not here to just flame, but to comment on the fact, from an experienced PvP gamers point of view, that tor needs some class uniqueness, I cannot think of a game whereby every class has a stun, in most, its only a few.

so, well done on a fantastic RPG, but insofar as PvP goes, bioware has a lot to learn.

[Hyrune]

Change the resolve bar to have less cc stacking and more thinking on cc usage

[Hypter_]

Open PvP area with objectives that effects the entire server, encourage PvP and PvE players alike to participate with some sort of reward(s) that benefits both types of player. Nothing like Ilum's 1H Valor % increase, not cosmetic items but something "real" that actually make the player feel rewarded -- open world PvP is a hard thing to sell to a lot of people, get them to want to take part in it.

[kantnerfme]

Remove expertise, add better pvp options on pvp gears. People mix pvp with pve gear to get a better gear rig.

The complete pvp gear is not working, because there is no big difference between 10% and 12% expertise.

Give same stats on pvp and pve but add different options so people must have a complete set to unlock all options in gears.

Open World pvp areas:

Add a system in Ilum and create a battle combat system that should give the thrill of SW in action.

My idea as i see it is to have waves of armies that players can join them and select which line to defend. ship speeders will drop players as group and they should defend or attack an objective. wining an objective will unlock further pushing and more troops to attack.

 

Add Raids where people will want to walk into open pve areas and kill those mobs so more people in pvp servers will meet in different planets and pvp to control the area.

 

Add Buildings which Guilds can attack and control, but add also near them fortresses that smaller guilds might have so guilds must work in alliance for 100% control of the region.

Edited March 22, 2012 by kantnerfme

[AetherMcLoud]

Why did you change it so losing a match will give you a TINY amount of commendations again? This encourages leaving losing matches in the hope of joining a winning match again.