veyl Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I didn't understand why Blizzard did this and I honestly don't understand why Bioware has chosen now to do it either. Players helping their healers out every minute and a half if they need to (When they need to) should not have been touched. You've already nerfed the output of the heal (due to PvP reasons mind you) so what is up with this one use per fight now? There is no sound//logical reason why a player can't use a medpack more than once per fight. Any good DPS knows that sometimes a healers priorities are NOT them and taking this aspect out of a boss fight over simplifies the complexity of an encounter. Healers get enough blame already, now you're really sticking it to them with this. I honestly can't see myself in this games life situation saying "Oh, I'm bleeding out of my leg... too bad I used a medpack before... guess I'm going to bleed out now because it's a boss fight and this thing in my inventory I for some reason cannot use...." You know damn well that if there were a timer on that medpack he'd be slamming it down once it was *available*. What is next? Only being able to use one re-usable ALA wow as well? Where the player has to choose between that power 500 buff of 20 seconds vs healing themselves in oh **** moments? Please do not let this go live and definitely stop looking at what WoW did with Alchemy in the raid world because they only went down hill every expansion with their decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhesus_TOR Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) This is a really bad idea IMO and I hope they change it back. Has anybody thought about what this means for classes that can break combat or to healers who are getting nerfed this coming patch? Those players (stealth classes) who can break combat every two minutes will now be able to time their breaks so they can drop out of combat long enough to reset their "once per fight" heal kit use, pop their heal kit then get back in the fight. I don't like this change at all especially given how little even the best heal kits out there actually heal a player up. Now if the heal kit were basically a 100% health restorative, then yes, I could see the point to only allowing the heal kit to be used once in a fight, but this is a serious nerf to all solo player combat, ANOTHER nerf to Biochem, and a nerf to healers and group fight dynamics. Edited March 21, 2012 by Rhesus_TOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomorn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Great idea. The harder the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVSiN Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 This is a really bad idea IMO and I hope they change it back. Has anybody thought about what this means for classes that can break combat or to healers who are getting nerfed this coming patch? Those players (stealth classes) who can break combat every two minutes will now be able to time their breaks so they can drop out of combat long enough to reset their "once per fight" heal kit use, pop their heal kit then get back in the fight. I don't like this change at all especially given how little even the best heal kits out there actually heal a player up. Now if the heal kit were basically a 100% health restorative, then yes, I could see the point to only allowing the heal kit to be used once in a fight, but this is a serioud nerf to all solo player combat, ANOTHER nerf to Biochem, and a nerf to healers and group fight dynamics. another attempt to devalue Biochem.. YAY! all you are doing is infuriating the entire games populace.. PVPers and Raiders.. good job it takes serious talent to piss off both camps at once.. Your game tuning team is gonna undo all the good the UI team did for this patch... you are going to drive far more people away from the game than lure them back with a neat UI,, game is going to hell.. even faster than it was pre 1.2.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lileth Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I really have concerns about this change and would appreciate it feedback from the devs. This is the first time I'm saying this, but my excitement for 1.2 gets worse and worse the more test it and the more things I see going on with the direction this game is headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhesus_TOR Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Great idea. The harder the better. When stealth classes get to use their combat breaks as a means of exploiting this dynamic, no. No, it isn't a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moshpet Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah, I can see this as a bad move, on top of another bad move. Nerfing PVE abilities due to PVP issues is _always_ a mistake. It's gotten to be a 'classic mistake' (/tip_hat Princess_Bride,) that MMO-Devs make. It's also the most annoying type of issue that comes up when a company decides to favor PVP over the PVE. If the PVE is not borked, don't fix it! The PVP players should never be given precedence over the PVE players, who most likely are those that drive the revenues. This is an MMORPG, not an MMOFPS. I don't play pvp, dirt side, because of this type of thing. (Space PVP combat I'll do, because it almost -never- effects ground side pve.) If I wanted PVP to affect my game play, I'd play on a PVP server. Maybe the Devs should consider 2 rule sets, one for the PVP servers and the others for us who like things balanced for PVE. I'd like to know which devs are pushing this, and what side they favor (Rep/IMP) they play the most. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Its mainly to make it easier to balance an encounter. That way they can be like "oh okeveryone will use 1 medpac this fight" They can compensate for that, but its more difficult when players are just chaining medpacks on cd. Edited March 21, 2012 by VertisReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhesus_TOR Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Its mainly to make it easier to balance an encounter. That way they can be like "oh okeveryone will use 1 medpac this fight" They can compensate for that, but its more difficult when players are just chaining medpacks on cd. Whether or not this makes it easier on the developers, it will certainly make it more difficult for anybody solo playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah, I can see this as a bad move, on top of another bad move. Nerfing PVE abilities due to PVP issues is _always_ a mistake. Doesn't make sense for most pvpers as stealth classes can abuse this. If anything they're trying to balance this based on PVE boss encounters, just as WoW did with a 1 per fight potion limit. So you're totally wrong about this one, it's pve effecting my pvp. Queue "If I wanted this I could have rolled a carebear server!" and other whining about pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I've never seen such a complete, coordinated campaign to drive players away from a game. Usually you'll lose a few people due to class nerfs or some sort of crafting change but this patch has something for everyone to hate. Where was this work ethic when the game was being created? If SWTOR had been designed with anywhere near the precision it's being dismantled we'd be in a much different place right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSentry Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I've never seen such a complete, coordinated campaign to drive players away from a game. Usually you'll lose a few people due to class nerfs or some sort of crafting change but this patch has something for everyone to hate. Where was this work ethic when the game was being created? If SWTOR had been designed with anywhere near the precision it's being dismantled we'd be in a much different place right now. Only 1 medpac per fight!? Let's hope those Mayans were right! I just don't think I can handle this cruel world any longer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zannis Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It restricts the devs to forcing AoE damage in an OPs to always be ahead of the medpack's cooldown, since a group can all use a medpack at the same time to mitigate an AoE heals situation. It's restrictive to the devs from a design standpoint. Suppose they want a big AoE blast every 2 minutes in an encounter, they now have to balance around the fact that everyone could be popping a medpack during those key moments. The one per fight limit forces it into it's designed role of 'panic' button...when your health is dangerously low, not to trivialize fight mechanics on a predictable interval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootle Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Its mainly to make it easier to balance an encounter. That way they can be like "oh okeveryone will use 1 medpac this fight" They can compensate for that, but its more difficult when players are just chaining medpacks on cd. This. They can't design encounters under the assumption that every op member is chaining medpack cooldowns, but for those who do, it suddenly becomes a huge advantage. See the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 This. They can't design encounters under the assumption that every op member is chaining medpack cooldowns, but for those who do, it suddenly becomes a huge advantage. See the problem? No, it's just simple math. They can design an encounter for any number of medpacks, even one every 10 seconds if they wanted to...again, it's just math. Also, bringing consumables SHOULD be a huge advantage, that's what they're for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSafana Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Its mainly to make it easier to balance an encounter. That way they can be like "oh okeveryone will use 1 medpac this fight" They can compensate for that, but its more difficult when players are just chaining medpacks on cd. It would be just as easy for them to factor in that everyone will be using a medpack at every cooldown also, so the balance encounter arguement is not working with me. This change will make stealth classes more desireable in Raids because they can reset their medpack use and relieve the pressure from the healers. Counter-productive to balancing AC's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The reason Blizzard did it was because back in the day because it was very stressful having to farm day and night for consumables and if you didn't you got chewed up by your guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) cry about it then, trust me - they aren't going to change it. Play Tera, you can chug a Potion every second like in Diablo. 100% Edited March 21, 2012 by VertisReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhesus_TOR Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The one per fight limit forces it into it's designed role of 'panic' button...when your health is dangerously low, not to trivialize fight mechanics on a predictable interval. Then the panic button needs to be bigger. 4k health as a "last resort" is hardly useful and stretched across a 10 minute encounter, the loss of 4k health*16 players*5 med packs (assuming you pop a heal kit 6 times before, roughly every 1.5 minutes) is a huge strain on healers. That's 320k in health that has to be found somewhere and unless I missed something, most healers are taking a nerf this coming patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVSiN Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Only 1 medpac per fight!? Let's hope those Mayans were right! I just don't think I can handle this cruel world any longer! considering the amount of time and money we spent to get those med packs just for this exact reason to help make raiding easier.. yes it is a HUGE deal.. I got BC for that 1 reason.. before it was even trendy to do so.. now not only is the long term goal to remove reusables from the game.. but now to make it so ANY stim I make for my raid can only be used 1 time per fight? On encounters lasting over 5 mins in some cases? you boost the other crafting skills to make them more attractive while at the same time crapping on those that are Biochems by making our craft worthless across the board.. Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootle Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 No, it's just simple math. They can design an encounter for any number of medpacks, even one every 10 seconds if they wanted to...again, it's just math. Also, bringing consumables SHOULD be a huge advantage, that's what they're for. Sadly, this is not the case... they become the defacto *standard* which the devs must design encounters for... are you new to MMOs? This has always been the problem with consumables... and with the reusable consumables available in this game, it gets out of control... esp since nobody currently views any other profession as min-max viable like biochem for PvE. I'm sort of glad they are realizing this early and nipping it in the bud before it gets out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Sadly, this is not the case... they become the defacto *standard* which the devs must design encounters for... are you new to MMOs? This has always been the problem with consumables... and with the reusable consumables available in this game, it gets out of control... esp since nobody currently views any other profession as min-max viable like biochem for PvE. I'm sort of glad they are realizing this early and nipping it in the bud before it gets out of control. Are you new to math? Consumables are just numbers and whether the medpack is reusable or not isn't the issue since they are also available in convenient single use applications that even stack in your backpack for you (whether you have biochem or not! wow, who knew?!)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzBlix Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If this is true, it's "hellastupid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veyl Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 This. They can't design encounters under the assumption that every op member is chaining medpack cooldowns, but for those who do, it suddenly becomes a huge advantage. See the problem? By this thought process you are stating that they are designing Raid Mechanics around Min/Maxers who are the vast MINORITY of the raiding population. Also, If ops groups are grouping up to take heals at the same time is an advantage over a Mechanic... Then why are there AoE heal spells in the game? They give the raid group a huge advantage, don't they? (Perfect example = LoS'ing missles on the first boss in EV vs Grouping/aoe healing one another.) More to the point: Everyone isn't going to be BioChem anymore, this means that Raid Consumables would be more valuable in the economy to Biochem crafting. Only the Min//Maxers will actively go out and farm or buy what they need to have Medpacks ready for ONE possible "Huge" advantage in an encounter. (And it's not as game breaking as you make it sound, it HELPS achieve victory... doesn't give you an IWIN button.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melacon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I mostly use my medpack when some stupid bug or mechanic costs me to take a lot of damage. ie., falling on a ball on soa after cc, ball instantly respawning immediately after popping, you know, silly things like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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