People teleporting in Warzones

[Tyraelium]

Occasionally something very irritating happens to other people's characters on my screen. They appear to be stationary, however, they vibrate on the spot and then re-appear a small distance ahead. I'm pretty sure it is that person lagging that causes this, as every other person appears normal to me.

 

This troubles me as this can give the advantage to someone with unstable Internet. It's a complete pain in the backside to stun someone on top of a flame vent and then realize they have lagged and are actually on the other side. Or to run up next to someone and start hitting them as melee, only to have them lag with you getting "You are not in range messages" (when you clearly are in range on your screen) and to re-appear a small distance in front.

 

If someone experiences a lag spike they should remain stationary and not ideally not vibrate either. Other MMOs seem to manage to get the client-server right so that being laggy isn't an advantage, why can't SW:TOR?

 

Not a hack, just due to poor netcode on BioWare's part. I see this visual glitch every day in Warzones. EVERY. Day.

Sprint+Terran difference causes this pretty regularly

[SeanPoe]

Sean, that's not what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Based on the very limited information you gave("zomg, he teleported from the pit to the goal"), it was safe for me to assume that's what you were talking about

 

There's very few players using legit speed hacks and location-teleport hacks though and the original-poster is definitely not talking about hacks of any kind.

Edited March 21, 2012 by SeanPoe

[Endel]

I'll say it again, there is a clear difference between the two.

 

I'm sorry those people were banging on you and obviously they have no clue of the difference between lag and hacks.

 

Dear Calindra,

 

The fact that we are discussing it here, the fact that many in this very thread are confused and tbh clueless to the "clear" difference between the two (i also wouldn't be able to distinguish those two as i have no idea how the packet loss hack looks like) and the fact that i was accused by people in a warzone of using this hack when i didn't use it, tells us that it is FAR from clear to majority of people.

 

In the first post you agreed with a person who said it must have been hack. I disagree. We cannot autop assume that a person is hacking.

My situation was not a very good one as you know how things and false accusations can spread fast via in game channels. Claiming that someone is hacking can hurt the person because he doesn't have to hack and still look like he is hacking.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Endel

[Lyshar]

Well, it may sound like lag, but at times things happen that make me doubt it.

 

I've seen stunned people teleport without the aid of another player.

I've seen people jump off the huttball ramp, only to appear on the other side of the fire trap after I managed to cross it.

I've seen people on voidstar blow up a door instead of planting a bomb (well, not actually seen who did it, or I would have reported them).

I've seen my entire ops get booted less than a minute into the warzone (well, saw them dripping in once I managed to get logged in again myself).

 

Most of the time when weird things happen it's not 100% clear if it can be blamed on lag. Things often enough look like cheating, I keep reading that it's very possible to cheat, but no one seems able to give the signs to look for.

 

If I can't be certain for myself if someone may be cheating or not, then how can I report them? If I knew what to look for, and what is lag induced, I could report people with minimal risk of pointing the finger at innocent people (and thus minimize time wasting for everyone).

[Calindra]

Dear Calindra,

 

The fact that we are discussing it here, the fact that many in this very thread are confused and tbh clueless to the "clear" difference between the two (i also wouldn't be able to distinguish those two as i have no idea how the packet loss hack looks like) and the fact that i was accused by people in a warzone of using this hack when i didn't use it, tells us that it is FAR from clear to majority of people.

 

In the first post you agreed with a person who said it must have been hack. I disagree. We cannot autop assume that a person is hacking.

My situation was not a very good one as you know how things and false accusations can spread fast via in game channels. Claiming that someone is hacking can hurt the person because he doesn't have to hack and still look like he is hacking.

 

You'll have to excuse me as I'll admit in my haste and anger I did not properly read the OPs description. I'm a bit bitter as several of my friends have left SWTOR due to obvious cheating. As I've said, my two closest friends are very, very close to leaving. We are all longtime gamers that have played many MMOs together and I love SWTOR and am frustrated that they may be leaving, especially due to BioWare's silent stance on the matter.

 

But my friends and I have played many MMOs and when you see someone hacking it is pretty evident. For the most part someone that is lagging will still move around like the average player sometimes disappearing and reappearing in different places where someone that teleports will move "cleanly" from point A to point B with little to no hiccuping in and out. It's basically "poof" and then they are out of attack range. It is not like they are there in front of you, then not, then back in front of you again. Here is another video of what it looks like. Watch at the very beginning of the clip. You'll see the opposing player is there and then in another spot. Notice how it looks different than lag.

 

 

This is why BioWare needs to let players educate each other on what is really going on and the difference between the two.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Calindra

[Hethroin]

See this video, do a proper search and Educate yourself!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJo7qwwNEyA

 

No one ever claimed or insinuated that there were no hacks to this game.

 

However this video does not give you the right to accuse someone of cheating every time their character warps on your screen. I can assure you that 99.9% of the cases where someone rubber bands or bounces back up onto a platform from which you punted them it is not because they are using a 3rd party tool. It is because the client-server code of this game is not sufficiently accurate about character locations.

 

This warping does happen in PVE. There are certain mobs that have a charge skill, try using a "pull" skill on them. They fly through the air as your pull goes off, dissapear and become out of range of melee attacks, teleport back to their starting location, and do their charge animation. Combat continues as normal from there.

[SeanPoe]

Well, it may sound like lag, but at times things happen that make me doubt it.

 

I've seen stunned people teleport without the aid of another player.

I've seen people jump off the huttball ramp, only to appear on the other side of the fire trap after I managed to cross it.

 

That's not from hacks/cheats. That's 100% because of the client-server prediction being extremely bad in this game.

[Calindra]

No one ever claimed or insinuated that there were no hacks to this game.

 

However this video does not give you the right to accuse someone of cheating every time their character warps on your screen. I can assure you that 99.9% of the cases where someone rubber bands or bounces back up onto a platform from which you punted them it is not because they are using a 3rd party tool. It is because the client-server code of this game is not sufficiently accurate about character locations.

 

This warping does happen in PVE. There are certain mobs that have a charge skill, try using a "pull" skill on them. They fly through the air as your pull goes off, dissapear and become out of range of melee attacks, teleport back to their starting location, and do their charge animation. Combat continues as normal from there.

 

 

Once again, I'm not talking about rubberbanding. Watch the second video and you'll see what I'm referring to.

 

The night before last a player in Huttball did this sort of thing to end the match 6-0 in minutes. Then, on Voidstar he did the same thing to capture the datacore, before anyone could get to him.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Calindra

[Calindra]

Maybe I'm just on a bad server or something, but there are several PvP guilds on our server that are always the problem. That's another way we can be certain that it is hacking, because it never happens in other matches against other guilds. It's usually the same guilds and occasionally a few random players not belonging to any guild that are doing it.

[Lyshar]

That's not from hacks/cheats. That's 100% because of the client-server prediction being extremely bad in this game.

 

Must be some serious server lag (latency at the most 34ms for me), this means several seconds of predictable behaviour, like being stunned (teleport right as I get to him and engage combat) or walking in a straight line towards the fire trap (he went into the pit while I waited for the trap to end)... maybe I should've called that one falling through the walkway.

 

But seeing as you don't mention some other things tell me those are probably hacks. So I'll have a little better idea what to look for.

[SeanPoe]

Must be some serious server lag (latency at the most 34ms for me),

 

It has nothing to do with latency for the most part. Having high-latency might make it worse, but i personally have 20ms and i dueled a friend of mine with 20ms also to test the prediction and netcode issues, and it still happened. Every-time i used a hard-CC on him while he was running away from me, he would stop moving on my screen and then 2-5 seconds later would warp about 3-10m away. On his screen he would be in the same place the entire time though (proving it's a client-side prediction issue). Also, every time he would jump off a cliff or over a large gap, he would disappear completely on my screen and then suddenly appear 2-5 seconds later. We then tested it in reverse, where i would be the one cc'ed or jump off a ledge/cliff and the same thing would happen on his end though -- i would disappear or suddenly warp 2-5 seconds later on his screen but on my screen everything appears normal.

Edited March 21, 2012 by SeanPoe

[Tyraelium]

Maybe I'm just on a bad server or something, but there are several PvP guilds on our server that are always the problem. That's another way we can be certain that it is hacking, because it never happens in other matches against other guilds. It's usually the same guilds and occasionally a few random players not belonging to any guild that are doing it.

 

Maybe because the majority of your other matches are against keyboard turning mouth breathers who don't use positioning strategies as well as other teams, so you never see them replicate the glitch? Does not mean that you are witnessing a hacker at all.

[Luciferhawke]

Isnt cheating encouraged?

[Dmasterr]

I have seen people use this to win hutball

 

Get ball-> lag yourself-> revert change over goal line->Profit.

 

Hi rated WZ (they are a joke, but still)

[Calindra]

Maybe because the majority of your other matches are against keyboard turning mouth breathers who don't use positioning strategies as well as other teams, so you never see them replicate the glitch? Does not mean that you are witnessing a hacker at all.

 

Well it's kinda ironic that one player in particular and his guild buddies thought they were all that and a bag of chips in PvP until myself and others reported them for what seriously appeared to be hacking. I haven't seen them since.

 

I'm going to take a stab in the the dark that BioWare didn't ban them for being really good PvPers. However, up until a few days before they were gone, there were still players on the teams that I was on that simply thought they were just really good at "positioning strategies" and such.

 

I guess not?!

Edited March 21, 2012 by Calindra

[Burtlebe]

All you have to do is goto coriella during off peak times and you get to learn all the hacks. The teleporting and speed hacks are being done constantly by the lvl 12 farmers there.

 

in no way should a lvl 12 every pass someone on a lvl 50 speeder unless they are both going over a cliff.

 

Went there one morning about 4 am and by the time i left at 6 i had reported 5 ppl for it. all level 12 to 15 on coriella.

 

Go into warzones and I see it a few times a day but not near as often as i do the rubberbanding lag/server code issue. But it is clearly a difference between the hack and the lag/code issue.

 

In one warzone i saw a sorc literally take the ball thru the flames to the endzone. I was on my shadow so i hit my burst of speed as soon as they took off and they left me holding a frown. First time it happened I gave the benefit of the doubt but when we scored twice and tied the game up. The same one did it twice so I reported it and havent seen them in a long while.

 

I find that its best to never call anyone out, its like starting a witch hunt. If you think someone is hacking then report it. They will keep an eye on the person and if they do hack then they are dealt with. This way you never offend someone who isnt hacking by yelling hacker in chat.

[kichael]

I have this happening to me a lot more frequently in the past few weeks.

[TheGreatNeechi]

"The movement visualization when observing players with lower performance has been improved."

 

PTS Patch Note

 

I suspect this is what you're running into. Someone with a very good connection, but a slow or under performing machine, is going to cause lag. Little known fact in online gaming, but a low frame rate does in fact increase latency.

 

Why?

 

Reduced frame rate means increased processor and GPU strain. Increased processing strain means slow communication with the Front Side Bus. Slower communication with the Front Side Bus means slow communication with everything, including the server.

[Calindra]

An example of the lag or sync issue would be when I've stunned someone in Huttball over one of the fire pits. They don't take any damage and suddenly appear outside of the fire pit. Wait, I thought I stunned them over the pit?

 

That's because of lag or sync. They were NOT actually over the fire when I stunned them; rather just appeared to be on my screen.

 

An example of a player using a hack, would be like what happened the other night when a few of us were in a Warzone and chatting on Mumble together:

 

Player 1: "I can't stun this guy no matter what I do. I've tried multiple times and nothing happens. He just keeps moving as if it doesn't phase him."

 

Player 2: "Let me try. Uh-yeah, nothing! I'm not getting anything either. He keeps resisting me as well."

 

Player 3: "Let's all give it a go at the same time, mate. Ready, 1-2-3, go! Yup, nothing! He definitely appears to be using something."

 

The player was obviously using some sort of hack that made it impossible for us to stun him. Each of us chatting via Mumble. 2 of us live in US and 1 in UK.

 

I should note that not only was that player impossible to stun, but they were pretty near impossible to bring down even with 4-5 of us nuking the crap out of him.

 

If someone isn't cheating and 4-5 focus-fire that person they go down, no matter how good they are at PvP.

[Tyraelium]

 

An example of a player using a hack, would be like what happened the other night when a few of us were in a Warzone and chatting on Mumble together:

 

Player 1: "I can't stun this guy no matter what I do. I've tried multiple times and nothing happens. He just keeps moving as if it doesn't phase him."

 

Player 2: "Let me try. Uh-yeah, nothing! I'm not getting anything either. He keeps resisting me as well."

 

Player 3: "Let's all give it a go at the same time, mate. Ready, 1-2-3, go! Yup, nothing! He definitely appears to be using something."

 

The player was obviously using some sort of hack that made it impossible for us to stun him. Each of us chatting via Mumble. 2 of us live in US and 1 in UK.

 

I should note that not only was that player impossible to stun, but they were pretty near impossible to bring down even with 4-5 of us nuking the crap out of him.

 

If someone isn't cheating and 4-5 focus-fire that person they go down, no matter how good they are at PvP.

 

I have been on vent with the team I was playing against at the time. They called me "unstunnable/uncc'able" and called me a hacker on vent as I 6-0 them game after game. I constantly get focus fired by 4-6 people and I don't always die. I don't use any hacks or outside programs, just the abilities I am given.

[TrampMcGee]

If you can't stun/cc someone, it's probably because they have a full resolve bar. Look it up. Multiple chained attempts are dumb, you'll see why.

[Bocherel]

Yeah it ****s me up 1 time out of 3 knockdown with my operative, that's terrible

[Calindra]

I have been on vent with the team I was playing against at the time. They called me "unstunnable/uncc'able" and called me a hacker on vent as I 6-0 them game after game. I constantly get focus fired by 4-6 people and I don't always die. I don't use any hacks or outside programs, just the abilities I am given.

 

If you expect me to believe that, then I've got a bridge to sell you in San Francisco.

 

Troll somewhere else.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Calindra

[Tyraelium]

If you expect me to believe that, then I've got a bridge to sell you in San Francisco.

 

Troll somewhere else.

 

Ahhh, when all else fails, just call the other person a troll!

 

There are cheaters/hackers in this game, I won't deny that. You find cheaters in any game. HOWEVER, it should be understood that what MOST players consider "hack/exploit/cheat" is really just BioWare's very very buggy game.

[DarthBloodloss]

It is a hack. It is called Lag Switching. Look it up. This is done in most cases intentionally. This along with all the other hacks have been in the game for quite some time now.

 

Its not a hack. Happens to a couple of my guildees during raids, and occasionally to the same people during huttball.

 

Odd thing is, it always happens in the same areas. When dropping down the platforms in the Soa fight, and when dropping out of the spawn room in Voidstar when defending the first doors.