NEW SWTOR CLASS: Pure Support Character - Your Thoughts

[Lord-Arneas]

Both in guild and forums discussions, even before the release of SWTOR, there has been allot of discussion about what another possible class could be for the game. I just want to throw out a possible idea to the community and see what the general feel would be.

 

Personally I am eager to see a full on, purely support dedicated class. What form this would take is wide open, possibly a Imperial Technician / Republic Droid Maker or something. Either way this class would be all about the support.

 

It would be a class for that tactician in all of us, utilising a wide array of crowd control, Damage over time, Heal over time, (DOTs & HOTs offering very small bursts but over a longer period) shields and numerous buffs (both long term and short). This class would be very difficult to use in a solo PvE basis, and would force players to make more intelligent use of their abilities and their chosen companion.

 

In a raiding / instance situation however these guys could be the turning point in any battle. Although not offering and great burst damage or heals, the impact on the battle over its course would be immense.

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and any other suggestions you may have.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Lord-Arneas

[livnthedream]

take rift as an example. every raid requires a bard and an archon. both are support, and both generally have people of that class drawing straws as to who is going to be forced to play it.

 

besides, you missed the little things, like balancing them for smaller groups vs larger.

[ConradLionhart]

The paladin class in vanilla WoW was the support class that couldn't do anything except heal and provide buffs. It didn't go over too well back then.

[Sapphix]

I always wanted a support/anti-healer class.

[Distracted]

It would definately have to be a class that just hands out bonuses while sitting safely inside a shield, sometimes transporting large groups with very little risk to itself.

[HelinCarnate]

I would like to see it, but more as an extra AC. It would probably best fit as an addition to the Agent/Smuggler base class. Having little punch on their own, they could be given a large presence bonus which would make their companions more effective in addtion to their own class buffs. The hard part comes with what extra buffs can be used without throwing off the balance of the game.

 

In a 4 man group, extra buffs for the other members can make up for the lack of damage of the buff class. So how do you balance that around a 16 man group with several more people getting the same buffs?

[Spiritretro]

something like the entertainer form SWG provides major skill crafting combat buffs can change your appearance and such as well as active battle support was an awsome class to play i was actually hoping they would introduce somethign like that to the game it would give them an excuse to pop in loads of features into as purely a support role

[RepublicChicken]

Personally, I don't see the point. Who wants to play a non-soloable non-PvE class in a solo PvE game? No matter how you put it, this game is mainly a solo-game for PvE players. There are group content, yes, but it's very little and hard to find. On top of that, once you do have some group content you want to do, finding an actual group for it is almost impossible most of the time. How then can you play a class that requires a group?

[Spiritretro]

because a: the games only just started

b: future additions will add more group content

c: even the entertainer on SWG could kick a jedis *** with the right gear and buffs and the entertainer didnt have any combat abilities

[Spiritretro]

oh and

d: make more of the game group reliant by upping the difficulty of the enemies

e: reconfigure the classes to be group reliant on the other classes

[Crazylor]

Both in guild and forums discussions, even before the release of SWTOR, there has been allot of discussion about what another possible class could be for the game. I just want to throw out a possible idea to the community and see what the general feel would be.

 

Personally I am eager to see a full on, purely support dedicated class. What form this would take is wide open, possibly a Imperial Technician / Republic Droid Maker or something. Either way this class would be all about the support.

 

It would be a class for that tactician in all of us, utilising a wide array of crowd control, Damage over time, Heal over time, (DOTs & HOTs offering very small bursts but over a longer period) shields and numerous buffs (both long term and short). This class would be very difficult to use in a solo PvE basis, and would force players to make more intelligent use of their abilities and their chosen companion.

 

In a raiding / instance situation however these guys could be the turning point in any battle. Although not offering and great burst damage or heals, the impact on the battle over its course would be immense.

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and any other suggestions you may have.

 

I believe this would be boring, to simple sit around and support your team with buffs constantly, it doesn't get very dynamic. 'Okay, damage buff, defense buff.... Oky now you guys are beasting, and I'm just passive playing in the back ground and oh since I have a healer on our team we're extra op cus that's almost enough support... Hmm I'll just sit back and watch my team wipe these guys over and over...' If anything if they make a full support class I think it should be a debuffing class. As in the class would have an active role in watching what players are doing and taking them out of the game through debuffing accuracy etc., disrupting them, or putting out constant cc. They'd be low damage, if any, and huge addition to any team, but also a key target when it comes to focusing, so it should be fun trying to watch who your debuffing down for your team etc. This would put more emphasis on better team play as well, people would protect the support class more and learn to protect their healers in the same way.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Crazylor

[Hakkology]

I find having support type of classes in MMO's very difficult to implement, since they have no room in PvE, in boss fights. An anti-healer, hexing class with supporting and buffing abilities should not be expected to do as high dps as other ones.

 

However, supporting role can be implemented to every class. For example;

 

Turbulence attacks could put a debuff on the enemy that increases all force damage dealt by 2-3%, which would make sages a perfect support class for any other dps jedi shadows, sentinels or guardians.

Demolition Rounds could put a debuff that increases all tech damage on the boss by 2-3%, making commandos a perfect support class for any other dps with tech damage.

 

Also RL's would have to be careful about their dps choices as well.

 

More examples can be implemented with a deeper mechanic discussion but this is merely food for thought.

[althene]

I find having support type of classes in MMO's very difficult to implement, since they have no room in PvE, in boss fights. An anti-healer, hexing class with supporting and buffing abilities should not be expected to do as high dps as other ones.

 

However, supporting role can be implemented to every class. For example;

 

Turbulence attacks could put a debuff on the enemy that increases all force damage dealt by 2-3%, which would make sages a perfect support class for any other dps jedi shadows, sentinels or guardians.

Demolition Rounds could put a debuff that increases all tech damage on the boss by 2-3%, making commandos a perfect support class for any other dps with tech damage.

 

Also RL's would have to be careful about their dps choices as well.

 

More examples can be implemented with a deeper mechanic discussion but this is merely food for thought.

 

I agree here. The consular and sorcerer can be spec'd out to provide a lot of utility to a party and still function decently at their given role. Even smugglers and operatives can. This isn't so much the case for sentinels and commandos, but they still have their tricks.

 

Suffice it to say that I don't want to see any class in the game that can't hold their own against at least one strong enemy when in a full party. At that point it feels like I'm carrying that player, especially in a 4 member group. It's one thing to be undergeared or off rotation. It's quite another to be ineffective. It doesn't matter what buffs they give and how powerful they make me or the rest of the party. The fact is, I'm (we're) doing all the work and they're getting all the rewards.

 

To a limited extent, this may not apply to the operations level of play, but that would require some fairly exacting balancing. And even then, the class may be highly sought after for that level of play, but completely useless anywhere else. At the very least I can see a pure support class being extremely boring to solo and fairly disappointing in PvP. And you really still haven't solved the issue of one member of the group being supported by the rest of the party even though they're playing their role as (ironically) support.

[Olicc]

The closest thing I can think of is the "Squad Leader" from SWG, rather than the Entertainers. They had some combat utility but lacked the full DPS of DPS classes, but provided group buffs such as speed buffs, and continuous buffs to accuracy and defense for just being grouped with them. Fully Buffed (buffs were ridiculous in SWG) they could spam their group speed buffs for hours without running out of energy. When people world PvP'd, there would always be one squad leader (typically an Alt on a laptop from a second account running on a macro) buffing up the entire group.

 

They could also mark targets (which any group leader can already do) and I believe (could be wrong) they could for your to focus fire by switching the groups target to their target (this could be cool and useful in PvP).

 

I feel that the gunnery commando is a bit like this. The class that no one wants to play because their DPS can't match the higher end DPS classes but everyone wants one in the group for their large armor break boss debuff.

 

It could be interesting to have a "raid leader" specific class geared more on managing the raid. Like the ability to call "cease fire" on Nightmare Pilgrim to prevent anyone from shooting the shield until its been determined who has the debuff. They could buff the other DPS players to account for the lack of DPS but primarily be a ranged player; but they could trade the raid wide DPS buff to a raid wide defense/Shield and healing buff by changing their Cell in certain circumstances, or initiate charge or retreat giving a 15 second 50% speed buff on a 5 min CD.

 

Perhaps the combat logs could parse out the additional damage that everyone does due to your buffs and MOX could use this to recalculate your DPS to show that you are indeed pulling your wait and add just as much DPS as another DPS would.

 

Give this class some additional meters like a threat meter. Skills like like a sentinels inspiration or that one that gives the group a small heal based on % of their health.

 

Not sure if this would be something that a lot of players would be interested in. Or that it would be worth the effort to implement and balance. I see a lot of players thinking they should lead raids because they are a "squad leader" when they have no actual talent for leading raids... Or requiring read leaders to have this class because of its advantages when a raid leader may be more happy playing other classes and not wanting to be forced into a class they don't enjoy.

 

Overall, I don't think it would work, but I do think it would be interesting to break the 3 role mode of WoW and come up with something new/innovative and positive enough to make people wonder how they ever played MMOs without that class.

[Wishiwasanoob]

The closest thing I can think of is the "Squad Leader" from SWG

 

It was called "Officer" but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since it's been a few years

 

This was the class I wouldn't let go of when I played SWG. They had burst AoE damage (3 grenades with a wide radius and an ability like the smuggler/agent air strike), they could be spec'd to play melee/mid-range pistol/rifle (range was 64m as opposed to 30m in swtor) and had an AoE root (only available to melee spec line) but the class buffs were the best. Removal of snares/roots with a boost to speed and defense, could call in special stims that gave boost to damage/dodge/health (I think, it's been a while).

 

You had to know the class pretty well to solo some of the higher difficulty end game stuff but was invaluable to group content (mainly because of the set bonus that gave an action regeneration proc but that's a different story).

[Olicc]

It was called "Officer" but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since it's been a few years

 

Actually, it was called "Squad Leader" as I said: http://www.swgcharacterbuilder.com/swg-cb.php?prof_id=28;

I never played the class myself, but I PvP'd enough to get a general idea of what buffs they gave.

 

Speaking of old SWG classes, god how I would love a Teras Kasi class. Such an interesting and rich history; TKMs typically LOVED being TKMs, not because they were powerful, because they weren't, but because it was just cool. Would be an interesting new Tank/DPS class with great potential for the player storyline. When I played my first Sith toon and found the "followers of Palawa" (who eventually create the Teras Kasi Order in SW:EU lore) I was super happy.

 

Maybe make Teres Kasi Sith based and Echani Republic based (or visa versa) but make them mirrors. BioWare seems to like the whole normal people becoming as powerful as Jedi thing through a lifetime of training and centuries of development. The problem is that Teras Kasi HATE all force sensitives so it actually makes more sense for them to be a 3rd faction; but BW has already said a 3rd faction would be game breaking and not going to happen.

 

Some will probably say, if you want SWG, play the SWG Emulater; but I don't see the problem with taking the great things form SWG and adding them to the superior game that is SWTOR. Maybe someday if they ever get the time and money to add new classes as an expansion (including story class act with acting) I hope they consider this.

 

I would think the whole idea of adding new classes is pretty high on the wall of crazy though.

[Olicc]

I just realized the big flaw in my idea.... TKs didn't exist yet in the timeline.... dough... never mind...

/fail

But you could still do Echani and make the class playable by both sides with different story.

[Altyrell]

I just realized the big flaw in my idea.... TKs didn't exist yet in the timeline.... dough... never mind...

/fail

But you could still do Echani and make the class playable by both sides with different story.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ter%C3%A4s_K%C3%A4si

 

Teräs Käsi, or "steel hands" in Basic, was an unarmed combat discipline. It was created sometime prior to 3,678 BBY on the planet Bunduki by the Followers of Palawa, refugees of the planet Palawa, which was devastated earlier in a war somehow involving the Jedi Council.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic

 

Timeline = 3,643 BBY – 3,640 BBY

 

TK's been in existence for at least 35 years before the Game begins.

[Olicc]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ter%C3%A4s_K%C3%A4si

 

Teräs Käsi, or "steel hands" in Basic, was an unarmed combat discipline. It was created sometime prior to 3,678 BBY on the planet Bunduki by the Followers of Palawa, refugees of the planet Palawa, which was devastated earlier in a war somehow involving the Jedi Council.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic

 

Timeline = 3,643 BBY – 3,640 BBY

 

TK's been in existence for at least 35 years before the Game begins.

 

Nice, this is perfect then. Class story could be about the Followers of Palawa having developed Teras Kasi over generations (or whatever it is) are now coming out and putting practices in place to keep Force sensitives in check. You are the promising student of one of the Masters who goes out into the Galaxy.

 

Or, less cool, but still cool, would be to add a TK Companion for non force sensitive classes and Echani companion for Force Sensitive classes.

[vampyrjack]

Heh, I wrote on the subject earlier today, found that some of your ideas were much similar to some I had. Check it out if you want http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=610999

[Wishiwasanoob]

Actually, it was called "Squad Leader" as I said: http://www.swgcharacterbuilder.com/swg-cb.php?prof_id=28;

I never played the class myself, but I PvP'd enough to get a general idea of what buffs they gave.

 

Ahh I see the disconnect now, we are talking about different sides of the CU. My apologies

[Paokzu]

I love the idea. I'm a big fan of such classes like the enchanter and bard on EQ. Sadly Im afraid we'll never see them here. Nowadays everyone cries when one class can do something another cannot.

[MGriffith]

I find having support type of classes in MMO's very difficult to implement, since they have no room in PvE, in boss fights. An anti-healer, hexing class with supporting and buffing abilities should not be expected to do as high dps as other ones.

 

City of Heroes managed it reasonably well, but that game was designed from the ground up for this. There each of the five classes had a primary and a secondary role, with the roles being Tank, Melee, Ranged, (De)Buff and Control. The combination of (De)Buff and Ranged was the support class (with the other options being Tank/Melee, Melee/Tank, Control/(De)Buff and Ranged/Everything). The Control class was never very popular because it took forever and then some time to level up enough to get an offensive pet. The (De)Buff class also has difficulty attracting players despite being the damage preventers (only one powerset actualy had a healing focus) and their ranged attacks were somewhat anemic (A five hero defender team on the other hand was an awesome thing to behold).

 

SW:TOR on the other hand has only a single role for each class, well, technically there is the dps role that everybody gets but the skill points system makes it hard to create a hybrid and thus a feasible pure support class. It does not even really have the game mechanics to put one into place.

I am afraid that with SW:TOR the closest you can get to a support class is a scoundrel healer or its imperial counterpart.