Samaul Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Balance (Sage) Critical Kinesis now increases the critical chance of Telekinetic Throw and Disturbance by 3% per point. Empowered Throw now increases the damage dealt by Project, Telekinetic Throw, and Weaken Mind by 2% per point. Presence of Mind now affects Disturbance and Mind Crush only. Mind Crush's periodic damage now benefits from the 20% damage bonus when it is used to consume the Presence of Mind buff. Force in Balance no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit. Madness (Sorcerer) Disintegration now increases the critical chance of Force Lightning and Lightning Strike by 3% per point. Calcify now increases the damage dealt by Shock, Force Lightning, and Affliction by 2% per point. Wrath now affects Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness only. Crushing Darkness's periodic damage now benefits from the 20% damage bonus when it is used to consume the Wrath buff. Force in Balance no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit. I have been dpsing as a sage for about 2 months in warzones and end-game pvp. I have full champion Force Master, the best hybrid dps spec gear and against equivalently or better geared targets in pvp, my dps freaking sucks. I mean sage dps is really weak in pvp. Some highlights of Sage PvP dps: I NEVER crit higher than 3k in pvp with any ability. Project hits for about 500-1500. TK Throw ticks for about 6-800. On targets with increased mitigation and damage shields, my abilities often hit or tick for 2-500 damage. Force Quake ticks for about 1-300 in pvp. On the other hand, I get crit by Juggernaut's for over half my health with 650 expertise. The sages biggest weakness is burst, we have none. We can put out decent sustained damage with procs in pve but our pvp dps is just weak and slow. Every imp dps class can out out amazing burst which makes them devastating 1v1. I cant kill anyone in decent gear 1v1 because I have no burst damage. PvP dps is dependent on burst because the fights are short. Sages need a significant buff in burst damage. That burst should come from our "pure" or 31 point dps specs but it doesnt. Our pure specs are just weak, especially in pvp. The only time I can do decent damage or kill anyone in pvp as a sage is when I am allowed to stand still and free cast. Sage dps is useless 1v1 in pvp. It is too slow and does not have sufficient burst to be competetive. It is interesting to note that I have gone back to Seer spec because my dps is so abysmal in pvp. But guess what? The worst 1v1 pvp dps spec is going to get even worse in 1.2. Edited March 20, 2012 by Samaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shevko Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Im a sage and have no trouble 1v1'ing anyone. Dont know what your problem is. Keep it up though then we might get a buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathiss Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The sorc/sage and merc/commando healing nerf was pretty much uncalled for though. Anyone with half a brain already knew how to take healers out of fights. In competitive play it is now going to be laughable. Would be time to dust off my operative alt if my guild already hadnt mostly left this piss poor game. (we are a pvp guild ....the pve here is mostly fun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathiss Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Im a sage and have no trouble 1v1'ing anyone. I know a few mauraders that would make you change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shevko Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I know a few mauraders that would make you change your mind. Thats an exception, nothing to do with skill. To the OP, this may seem crazy but why dont you try an actual 1v1 spec on a sage, you never know you may like it. Hybrid is only a wz spec for padding your stats. Edited March 20, 2012 by Shevko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Im a sage and have no trouble 1v1'ing anyone. Dont know what your problem is. Keep it up though then we might get a buff I dont believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OysterCatcherr Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The sorc/sage and merc/commando healing nerf was pretty much uncalled for though. Anyone with half a brain already knew how to take healers out of fights. In competitive play it is now going to be laughable. Would be time to dust off my operative alt if my guild already hadnt mostly left this piss poor game. (we are a pvp guild ....the pve here is mostly fun). You know with increased DR on expertise, all healers will get an increased 10-15% on all healing done right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shevko Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dont believe you. It wasnt up for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drack Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Im a sage and have no trouble 1v1'ing anyone. Dont know what your problem is. Keep it up though then we might get a buff Thats simply not true, end of story. Its a stupid claim even. If you watched the PvP tourney there have just been you will see great sage/sorc players get crushed by other classes. Then you know its a lie when someone spets up and say "Hey I do great in PvP, its just all you BMs and WHs out there, you all suck cept me" And THAT is not up for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shevko Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Great by whos standards? Yours? This guy is complaining of his hybrid spec not being able to compete in 1v1 play, and that is because a hybrid spec is just a wz spec. All im saying is balance enables you to compete. Edited March 20, 2012 by Shevko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanPoe Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Im a sage and have no trouble 1v1'ing anyone. And by anyone you mean anyone that's not a pyro powertech, anni marauder, or darkness assassin? The only way you can win a 1v1 against an equally skilled and geared player of these three classes is if you have extremely good los where you can root them and then los constantly to heal as dots slowly kill them (and even then you will lose more than you win). If you disagree, please make a video of you beating these three classes in a 1v1 where you both have full cooldowns (and they must have the same gear level as you and be a competent player). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drack Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Great by whos standards? Yours? This guy is complaining of his hybrid spec not being able to compete in 1v1 play, and that is because a hybrid spec is just a wz spec. All im saying is balance enables you to compete. Its not actually. Alot of the hybrid spcs went for the CC there was in lightning along with the CL. Hybrid lightning/madness was not a bad 1v1 spec at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drack Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 And by anyone you mean anyone that's not a pyro powertech, anni marauder, or darkness assassin? The only way you can win a 1v1 against an equally skilled and geared player of these three classes is if you have extremely good los where you can root them and then los constantly to heal as dots slowly kill them (and even then you will lose more than you win). If you disagree, please make a video of you beating these three classes in a 1v1 where you both have full cooldowns (and they must have the same gear level as you and be a competent player). That sir, is mission impossible without Tom Cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggDirty Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Im a sage and have no trouble 1v1'ing anyone. Dont know what your problem is. Keep it up though then we might get a buff Riiiight... best sage in the world right here guys. If you are 31 pt balance, and you have plenty of pillars to hump, you might 1v1 an operative or sniper. But, you get caught in open field ilum against a full BM geared player, you are dead 100% of the time. This nerf to dps is a joke. The fix to pyschic projection was necessary I guess, since tbh I could put out 12k damage in a very short period with it, but that was only when force potency was up. But it's cool, I have already dropped my full BM sage in favor of a sentinel, due to pitiful survivability in focus fire situations. The nerf to dps is just icing on the cake. Incoming "sentinels are OP" threads for the next 4 months. Then they'll get nerfed. It's WoW all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drack Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 If ANY sorcs or sages feel like they are good an can 1v1 someone efficiently. If you are on the server Ahto City, please give "mouse" a tell. If you can bat him as a sorc/sage then come back here and I will take everything back, even if your close to killing him. Or win 1 out of 10. Untill I see a sorc/sage kill a good marauder/tank assassin or a PT, then your simply stating lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manski Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Bioware already stated that they balance classes for group pvp situations not 1v1 duels against EVERY class. They stated that each class is likely to have a counter class that can beat it easier than others. Example on my commando, i dominate other ranged classes like sorcs / snipers, but have more trouble with melee like a good jugg or operative. Can i beat them? yeah but its not easy and it shouldnt be to beat every class. sages have a lot of utility besides just their damage in group pvp situations. Being able to switch to spot healing in pvp is a huge advantage, i do it on my commando all the time. Many situations a quick spot heal is a thousand times more useful than any damage i could have been doing at the time. The force pull in Huttball will make sages a must have in Rated WZs as well. When you see a sage do 500k+ and 100k+ healing without ever throwing a targetted heal in a WZ thats just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drack Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well if sorc is rock, who is scissors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scav Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well if sorc is rock, who is scissors? The ppl who have no idea how to play their own classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drack Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The ppl who have no idea how to play their own classes. You are correct sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manski Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 with 8 classes it becomes more a game of Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock. Now you can see the difficulty in actually creating a perfect balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I have been dpsing as a sage for about 2 months in warzones and end-game pvp. I have full champion Force Master, the best hybrid dps spec gear and against equivalently or better geared targets in pvp, my dps freaking sucks. I mean sage dps is really weak in pvp. Some highlights of Sage PvP dps: I NEVER crit higher than 3k in pvp with any ability. Project hits for about 500-1500. TK Throw ticks for about 6-800. On targets with increased mitigation and damage shields, my abilities often hit or tick for 2-500 damage. Force Quake ticks for about 1-300 in pvp. On the other hand, I get crit by Juggernaut's for over half my health with 650 expertise. The sages biggest weakness is burst, we have none. We can put out decent sustained damage with procs in pve but our pvp dps is just weak and slow. Every imp dps class can out out amazing burst which makes them devastating 1v1. I cant kill anyone in decent gear 1v1 because I have no burst damage. PvP dps is dependent on burst because the fights are short. Sages need a significant buff in burst damage. That burst should come from our "pure" or 31 point dps specs but it doesnt. Our pure specs are just weak, especially in pvp. The only time I can do decent damage or kill anyone in pvp as a sage is when I am allowed to stand still and free cast. Sage dps is useless 1v1 in pvp. It is too slow and does not have sufficient burst to be competetive. It is interesting to note that I have gone back to Seer spec because my dps is so abysmal in pvp. But guess what? The worst 1v1 pvp dps spec is going to get even worse in 1.2. I'm in mostly Columi, some champ, one Rakata. I think this is not a far cry from where you are at.. 1. Try 2/11/28 not pure, but not the imfamous hybrid either........ if you need more info let me know... 2. Add some instacast DoT's (one of which also happens to be one of the highest single target dmg stat) 3. To get better crits than 3K, a. use force potency, surge adre, surge relic. Pop Force in Balance b. This also get heal crits @ 5k+ if you pop deliverence ILO Force in Balance Try it, tweak it. Tell me what you think... [EDIT] Damn... this also assumes you have the best stim/adre available. I am rolling Rakata stim/adre so maybe I am over stating things, but you get the idea how to increase your 1v1 and burst issues? Edited March 20, 2012 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ase-Radiant Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 with 8 classes it becomes more a game of Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock. Now you can see the difficulty in actually creating a perfect balance. Yes. Love that show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleikauf Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I dont believe you. Now do you? Only thing that hurts is a good marauder, but that is still doable. Also, if you are using force quake on anything but the doors, you're doing it wrong. Force quake is horribad. Edited March 20, 2012 by Cleikauf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 No offense man but this is actually a buff to damage. All you are looking at is the 4% reduced crit on an ability and the 6% dmg reduction on another ability. You are gaining 6% damage on 2 other abilities As far as the healing goes did you really think double dipping on the healing was right? Imo they barely even touched them What they should have done beisdes the healing reduction is: moved tele def/lightning barrier to require 20 points in that tree, moved oppressing force/pinning resolve to 20 points in that tree. Increased the force speed cooldown from 30sec to 2min And kept the damage the same And finally sage/sorc are fixed I think you will find if you do a rotation beyond spamming rocks you will come out ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well if sorc is rock, who is scissors? Affliction Warlock = Scissors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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