Balance: The upside you didn't know about.

[Philosomanic]

From looking at the skill trees (and forum posts), you can probably see the pros and cons of Balance spec. However, there is one big pro that most people don't realize about Balance:

 

YOU NEVER HAVE TO THROW TRASH.

 

The other two specs are focused on rock/junk-throwing skills. Kinetic especially is trash-oriented. They throw trash frequently, throw pebbles several times a minute, and are constantly surrounded by a shield of floating rocks.

 

Leave the pebbles and droid parts behind! Balance doesn't feel the childish need to fling rocks. In stead, we use our supreme skill and mastery of the force to cause waves of golden light and energy, searing our foes to death with the aura of our awesomeness.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Philosomanic

[jbuschell]

Hey buddy you know you AREN'T supposed to drink the bong water right

 

Edit : I thought as balance we had to project to maintain our 20% dmg buff or did they remove it, I'm level 18 and plan on going balance, my main was a Marauder so im not sure if this was the case

Edited March 19, 2012 by jbuschell

[LawStanz]

Hey buddy you know you AREN'T supposed to drink the bong water right

 

Edit : I thought as balance we had to project to maintain our 20% dmg buff or did they remove it, I'm level 18 and plan on going balance, my main was a Marauder so im not sure if this was the case

 

I use project occasionally to proc. twin disciplines. I don't have telekinetic throw on my hotbar and haven't used it for 30 levels or more.

[jbuschell]

So what level do you think balance becomes effective? 20 for FiB? I'm infiltration right now but I'm going balance as soon as it becomes effective in leveling

[Anelyn]

I use all abilities, except standard attack and shadow strike. Each has their uses, some situational, some for procs etc.

 

You use project in pvp quite a lot, is a good burst skill, but never use it when on low force and FiB is coming off cd or you have to refresh dots etc.

[Philosomanic]

Project is optional. Personally, I don't use it. The Twin Disciplines buff is actually pretty tiny. It's not "+10% melee damage", it's "+10% melee damage bonus" So if you have a melee damage bonus of 400, Twin Disciplines is giving you 40 bonus damage.

 

When you consider that Double Strike on its own hits significantly harder than Project, and that Project costs almost twice as much force, it's not really worth using (in my opinion). I'll occasionally use it to consume a Force Potency charge, but that's it. Ever since I changed my build to remove Upheaval and Twin Disciplines, my force management has gotten much better. I'm almost completely sustainable now; I only end up using Saber Strike every 20-25s at the most. I'm personally of the opinion that Project isn't worth it for a full Balance build.

[jaymill]

im specd in upheaval and twin discipline and i really like it. my rotation begins with popping force potency then using FiB, followed by a project which when it hits will crit for 2k on the big rock and around another 1k if i lift the other rock with upheaval. since my FiB crits for around 2.7k on my primary target, follow that with another 2.5 - 3k of damage instantly and your looking at dropping an enemy 6k health off the start, then force breach and sever force to get the dots going and rooting them in place so i can hit them with my melee.

 

now at this point, since all of this is happening relatively fast, you might have guessed im probably low on force. your right. i usually only have around 20 force left at this point. not much to continue on. this point was frustrating at one point. trying to immediately use double strike repetitively on my target wasnt going to happen because i didnt have the force to sustain it.

 

this was when i found out about saber strike.

 

i decided to add saber strike to my rotation right after i applied sever force just to do some damage and get my force up to start using double strike. i would have never guessed saber strike serves a greater purpose.

 

saber strike strikes the target 3 times with the lightsaber dealing minimal damage per hit. the move takes 1 global cooldown to complete.

 

it dawned on me that saber strike hits the target 3 times. double strike only hits the target twice.

 

what the hell does that have to do with the matter?

 

the definition of force strike tells all: "Melee attacks that strike a target affected by your Force Technique's Breach effect have a 60% chance to finish the cooldown on Mind Crush and make your next Mind Crush activate instantly and cost 100% less Force. This effect cannot occur more than once every 7.5 seconds."

 

Melee attacks that strike a target affected by your Force Technique's Breach effect have a 60% chance

 

each hit from saber strike is a melee attack which strikes a target, thus there is a 60% chance it will proc force strike for each of its hits, all 3 of which come at no cost in a single GCD timeframe.

 

not only does saber strike do some damage and allow you to regain force, but it has a higher chance of procing your free mind crush per GCD than double strike.

 

having added it to my rotation i find that it procs force strike nearly every time i use it in that instance (i would say about 85% of the time). in which case i instantly use my free mind crush on my target, and by the time thats done with im up around 60 force at least.

 

i would like to note that if i were attacking an enemy thats how i would do it if i were completely uninterrupted and able to always be facing my target it melee range. that never happens. i get CC'ed a lot... and while im CC'ed my force regens so im usually on a full tank once i can start fighting again.

 

just something to consider. balance is effective depending on how you use it. there isnt a "best" way to play the class.

[Kai-Eurah-Tird]

With the coming of 1.2. You can stack power on the orange gear with augments. That 10% to damage bonus is gonna be worth it.

[MithrilSoul]

Project is optional. Personally, I don't use it. The Twin Disciplines buff is actually pretty tiny. It's not "+10% melee damage", it's "+10% melee damage bonus" So if you have a melee damage bonus of 400, Twin Disciplines is giving you 40 bonus damage.

 

This is a good point, and one that people often miss...it is only a 10% increase to your bonus damage, and bonus damage only makes up a small part of the total damage you are doing.

 

When you consider that Double Strike on its own hits significantly harder than Project, and that Project costs almost twice as much force, it's not really worth using (in my opinion).

 

I do agree that Project, by itself, is more Force-inefficient. But I think you overstate the case when you say DS hits "significantly" harder. The base difference is DS hits about 10% harder (not something I would call "significant," but I suppose that is more a matter of opinion). What is significant, at least when dealing with open-world questing, is that Project also stuns the target for 3 seconds...which gives you essentially 2 global cooldowns in which you can continue to do damage and you aren't taking any damage at all in return. Certainly not a consideration all the time, but it can be important while still questing and in the leveling-up process.

[shagatha]

What is significant, at least when dealing with open-world questing, is that Project also stuns the target for 3 seconds...which gives you essentially 2 global cooldowns in which you can continue to do damage and you aren't taking any damage at all in return. Certainly not a consideration all the time, but it can be important while still questing and in the leveling-up process.

This works well without upheaval(so no skill pts used for twin dic/second rock). It's 3 saved pts not to spec for it and force management gets easier. Edited March 19, 2012 by shagatha

[Philosomanic]

Like I said, Project is optional. It's a great, valid choice to have Project in your build, but it's also valid to leave it out.

 

I guess the point is that you're never forced to throw junk. You can choose to if that's what you like, but it's not required. If you got rid of all the junk-flinging and rock-floating skills for Kinetic or Infiltration, they'd be severely gimped. We have a build (7/0/31 +3) where you can take Project and TK throw off of your skill bars and still perform extremely well. If you don't like junk-flinging, you can stick with the golden light and do just fine.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Philosomanic

[Dulwaithe]

Using TKT for the second charge of force potency works pretty well if you won't cap out on force either. If you're not using it for project to proc TD ofc.

[jaymill]

Project is a force hog, but to ignore twin disc and never use it is kind of a waste. Why not do damage with project and get the 10% bonus? Use project on an as needed basis. If its running you out of force because you use project every time it's off CD then don't. Just use it to get your 10% bonus. I use mine on a situational basis and it works great for me not chewing my force up.

[Sogar]

Project is a force hog, but to ignore twin disc and never use it is kind of a waste. Why not do damage with project and get the 10% bonus? Use project on an as needed basis. If its running you out of force because you use project every time it's off CD then don't. Just use it to get your 10% bonus. I use mine on a situational basis and it works great for me not chewing my force up.

 

Actually, it has been calculated that even with the best gear with full power mods/enhancement (and rakata bonuses to force regen), you deal less damage using project every 20s for twin disc alone than not using it at all for a boss fight.

So yes, you should ignore twin disc because project is a force hog. I still spec in upheaval because it is better for the situation I use project for (mainly burst or if I need as much range damage output as possible) but twin disc is definitly not a good reason to use project ... a nice topping at best but not your main dish.

[shagatha]

I'm testing now infiltration tactics 3/3 instead of upheaval. I rarely use it but that would be the case for project also so not a big problem.

[Exzileforgotten]

As a pvp Balance build I do not use upheaval or TD or even cast project. The burst is nice but most of the time im filling the GCD where project would fill with a snare(for kiting) stun or force lifting a 2nd opponent. To me 10 sec off the CD of stun is an amazing talent for me. With out project I still have no problem burning someone down. But I also play more of a kiting hit and run role more so then anything.

 

I am running a 10/0/31 build.... with 2 in pinning resolve. 2 in Jedi resistance(not the best but filler at best) and 1 in mind ward(because every one has a dot on you these days.) My spec is not the best by any means but it works! May move that 1 point out of Jedi resistance now that I think about it to get the 15% dot mitigation probably more valuable then 1% overall dmg reduction.

[Exzileforgotten]

A little more of how I play I wanted to add...I said before I play it as a hit and run type class. I don't stay on a target unless I know my team can get the kill. (healer) Void star for example as an attacking team I will come out of stealth load up dots and run away. Those imp kids have some serious ADHD they will forget about you. Soon as you see them(most likely keyboard turn) to another opposition, run back out and load up dots on another person. I know people complain about the duration of sever force taking to long to do any real damage. If you use it in wider scope in junction with sever force I find healers start to scramble as they try to focus on who is taking the most pressure. Just keep dots on everyone. Run out of sight don't attract attention to your self! If you start getting some pressure pop some CDs force spead etc make them forget about you! Run away lose attention then put dots on everyone again. You will never see big hits or amazing burst but you are taking some serious hps off people that make it so the burst hitters dont have to roll the dice on if they can finish them!

[jaymill]

Actually, it has been calculated that even with the best gear with full power mods/enhancement (and rakata bonuses to force regen), you deal less damage using project every 20s for twin disc alone than not using it at all for a boss fight.

So yes, you should ignore twin disc because project is a force hog. I still spec in upheaval because it is better for the situation I use project for (mainly burst or if I need as much range damage output as possible) but twin disc is definitly not a good reason to use project ... a nice topping at best but not your main dish.

 

For PvE I wouldn't doubt it at all. For pvp, which is what I'm mainly doing till my guild is ready to raid, it's a whole different ball game. I should have mentioned that I was talking about pvp.

[Sogar]

For PvE I wouldn't doubt it at all. For pvp, which is what I'm mainly doing till my guild is ready to raid, it's a whole different ball game. I should have mentioned that I was talking about pvp.

 

PvE and PvP are different games. That does not change the fact that you use project mainly because it bursts more not because of twin discipline. Using project for the buff is not efficient for your force management and that is still true for PvP.

 

Just like upheaval, it is a buff to project that should not change it's prioritisation. Choosing to spec in it, or upheaval, or the 10s decrease CD for force stun, or both of the defensive skills are your choice to make though but don't think that it is major enough to change your rotation.

[Anelyn]

I never use saber strike, and I do use project quite a lot (not as much for the bonus to melee dmg, as for the dmg itself which is delayed, has almost 50% chance to cause 2 projects, and creates a burst with fib which can push someone right into the 30% area for spinning strike).

 

I am never force starved, I don't spam attacks, I am not 100% in melee range even if I am not knocked back or rooted / snared. I am always planing ahead what I have to do next or prepare for depending on my target, proximity enemy / friendly targets, positions, objectives, since FS has a 7.5s CD, there is no point to spam DS or saber strike after 1st proc earlier than the timer as you won't get a new proc, I am usually staying at ~30-40% force pool when am engaged in combat to leave me enough to chain a new sequence without having to wait for regen.

 

Again this is PvP strictly, in PvE of course you won't have gaps in your rotation as that is a hit in your dps, and you won't use project as much if at all.

[jaymill]

im not basing my rotation on it im just finding multiple purposes for casting project. my project hits like a truck, around 3k, so im not taking it out of my rotation. it just so happens i get a 10% bonus when i use it. sweet. better than not having it at all and using project. people think that upheaval is garbage, and i think infiltration tactics is a complete waste. to each their own.

[Anelyn]

I really don't like to rely on shadow strike proc and skill itself to deal good damage. Most classes have skills that increase their deflection levels to at least 50%, which means you have a 50% or more chance to get your proc dodged / parried. It does not consume the proc of course, but you will continue to spend same GCD on it to force it past their defense to make it hit to not lose the proc, or you will notice they popped that deflection skill and use other skills losing the proc.