I just returned recently myself, about a month ago. I played a kinetic balance hybrid, 29/1/17 I believe, up to right around 1.2. It was a fantastic pvp spec then and it's still pretty good now except it's not the se spec. They changes the trees a bit and I've speced more into infiltration now but they've made the kc tree better for damage with the shadow wrap talent which is why I speced more into infiltration to buff the damage of shadow strike and pick up some decreased cd times and faster movement speed. I'm currently trying out a balance/infiltration spec which has good damage but feels pretty squishy. I really like balance and thinks it's challenging to play well but I'm going to go back to KC/infil because it's just too good. Lightweight tank that can stealth. Too many utilities to mention with a guard as well. See a healer without one close by, offer him yours for a little while. I don't use a shield gen but I still have better mitigation in KC than balance even with shadows veil.

i think bioware had a bunch of lawyers write up a big terms and agreements thing you have to electronically sign for in order to play the game that states your totally responsible for everything involving your account and this game thus releasing them of any dumb stuff you do to F* yourself over like not taking advantage of the well publicized free character transfer. id also like to point out the word free meaning a service you are NOT paying for. they are doing you a favor, and they owe you nothing more than what you already have.

I think he might be asking if he's gonna have to switch to KC so he can do PvE at 50. That answer is no. Shadow dps DEFINTELY has a place in an ops as far as PvE. Balance and infiltration both are very viable raid dps.

Try balance. It's only as hard as you make it. It's really open to play style so there isn't a set or "best" rotation. I love playing my consular because balance is a lot of fun.

^^^^ what he said

Math doesn't mean **** in battle where everything is constantly changing. I use project. And I crit with it. And I kill people. When that one guy is like ~40% hp, project then spinning strike gets it done pretty quick. I open up with force potency, FiB, project, and then the dots. It works awesome for me... Idk what y'all are talking about with this whole not using project thing.

I messed with the 2 piece from the force master but i decided to go with the 3 force potency charges which I love. Gives me a lot of burst to open up with.

im not basing my rotation on it im just finding multiple purposes for casting project. my project hits like a truck, around 3k, so im not taking it out of my rotation. it just so happens i get a 10% bonus when i use it. sweet. better than not having it at all and using project. people think that upheaval is garbage, and i think infiltration tactics is a complete waste. to each their own.

For PvE I wouldn't doubt it at all. For pvp, which is what I'm mainly doing till my guild is ready to raid, it's a whole different ball game. I should have mentioned that I was talking about pvp.

Project is a force hog, but to ignore twin disc and never use it is kind of a waste. Why not do damage with project and get the 10% bonus? Use project on an as needed basis. If its running you out of force because you use project every time it's off CD then don't. Just use it to get your 10% bonus. I use mine on a situational basis and it works great for me not chewing my force up.

im specd in upheaval and twin discipline and i really like it. my rotation begins with popping force potency then using FiB, followed by a project which when it hits will crit for 2k on the big rock and around another 1k if i lift the other rock with upheaval. since my FiB crits for around 2.7k on my primary target, follow that with another 2.5 - 3k of damage instantly and your looking at dropping an enemy 6k health off the start, then force breach and sever force to get the dots going and rooting them in place so i can hit them with my melee. now at this point, since all of this is happening relatively fast, you might have guessed im probably low on force. your right. i usually only have around 20 force left at this point. not much to continue on. this point was frustrating at one point. trying to immediately use double strike repetitively on my target wasnt going to happen because i didnt have the force to sustain it. this was when i found out about saber strike. i decided to add saber strike to my rotation right after i applied sever force just to do some damage and get my force up to start using double strike. i would have never guessed saber strike serves a greater purpose. saber strike strikes the target 3 times with the lightsaber dealing minimal damage per hit. the move takes 1 global cooldown to complete. it dawned on me that saber strike hits the target 3 times. double strike only hits the target twice. what the hell does that have to do with the matter? the definition of force strike tells all: "Melee attacks that strike a target affected by your Force Technique's Breach effect have a 60% chance to finish the cooldown on Mind Crush and make your next Mind Crush activate instantly and cost 100% less Force. This effect cannot occur more than once every 7.5 seconds." Melee attacks that strike a target affected by your Force Technique's Breach effect have a 60% chance each hit from saber strike is a melee attack which strikes a target, thus there is a 60% chance it will proc force strike for each of its hits, all 3 of which come at no cost in a single GCD timeframe. not only does saber strike do some damage and allow you to regain force, but it has a higher chance of procing your free mind crush per GCD than double strike. having added it to my rotation i find that it procs force strike nearly every time i use it in that instance (i would say about 85% of the time). in which case i instantly use my free mind crush on my target, and by the time thats done with im up around 60 force at least. i would like to note that if i were attacking an enemy thats how i would do it if i were completely uninterrupted and able to always be facing my target it melee range. that never happens. i get CC'ed a lot... and while im CC'ed my force regens so im usually on a full tank once i can start fighting again. just something to consider. balance is effective depending on how you use it. there isnt a "best" way to play the class.

I wou like to add that there aren't any changes from what I've seen on the patch notes involving shadow consulars much less the balance tree, which I am thankful for. My class is awesome and doesn't need to be screwed with. Leave my talents alone. Too be honest I feel like if people knew how crazy awesome balance was at just doing everything then try would scream for a nerf... Shhhhh

Balance > 9000 That's right, it's over 9000

ive been balance since day 1 and i hit battlemaster last week. im running full stalker gear because it fits my play style. balance is a very dynamic tree. there have been many discussions on here regarding what balance spec'd shadows should do and there is a myriad of options because its not a cut and dry 1 way to play spec. just from reading and replying to most of the balance threads on here, ive noticed that there are differences in the talent set up but most of it is in the last 10 points and maybe a few different points in the balance tree depending on what you like. the largest difference actually comes from play style. for instance, Philosomanic ^^^ runs a slightly different talent set up from me but his play style is much different from mine based on what ive read on his posts the thing i love about balance the most is that there really isnt a set rotation per se because your moves dont really depend on being chained together in a specific order, and honestly if you use different moves in different orders you get different results. i spent a long time learning how to play my class. and most of it was just from trial and error and tweaking my play style. personally, if against a group, i pop my force potency (got 3 charges with full stalker), drop force in balance in the middle of the group, running up i hit my main target with project, and then i force breach followed by sever force and then double strike till i get my free mind crush and kinda repeat that process if possible using spinning strike when i get them below 30%. thats about as vague as i can be as far as my rotation. its much much more complex than that, as with anyone else who plays balance will tell you. i believe that balance is so utility heavy that there really cant be a set rotation, its just what move do i need to use right now to be the most efficient. and for me, thats a straight up blast. i love balance and i hope they dont ruin with 1.2....

@ anelyn Um... You obviously haven't played balance... We have 2 instant cast 18 second dots, one that's a 2 sec root with a cool down, while the other only obeys GCD and cost 20 force... I can run up and put that on 5 people in a group pretty easy then hit my main target with the root (sever force) and start pounding on them with my double strike and get my free mind crush... Plus our force in balance makes our dots tick for 30% more on its targets so I drop that into the group I'm running up to. So I would say our 2 18 sec dots and our free and instacast mind crush is muh better than w/e the sent has... Not to mention I dDon't physically need to touch my target to get my dots on them... And instant cast force lift does fill up a lot of resolve, but it lifts for a good amount of time and then when broken early it's an additional 2 seconds. Great to use in plenty of situations.