Caerdros Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Not really hurried. The game was more or less unchanged from labour day beta to live in terms of design and core functionality. There was some balance, bug fixing on pathfinding etc. but they never even tried to fix things that were fundamentally poorly thought out(talents, space game, etc. etc. ). Their main factor on release date was when they could get the star wars licence from SOE. They had a creative vision, and wanted that to be what went live. Once it was out there they had time take some time to digest what people were saying, play the game themselves and try and come up with solutions. No matter what testing they would have done, that would have happened. You don't know your actual customers until they're actual customers. Voluntary testers are willing to put up with a lot of things because 'it's testing' they are fans, etc. etc. etc. In the business we call this tissue testing. There isn't really a way around it for an MMO, so you have to expect 1.1 to triage of whatever is really badly broken, and 1.2 to be the pushing systems to whatever will be necessary for the future. There are clearly a lot of things wrong with their process when you look at 1.2. They're trying to glue several unrelated systems in together, all at once. That's how marketers and managers think, not how you should ever actually run a live product. But they'll figure it out, probably the hard way. E.g. UI changes and a new raid zone. Both of which are fine, but forcing them into the same patch is a recipe for confusion and disaster. The combat log *should* be released for the current raid tier, so if they break something with it, they don't break new raid content. Things like that. In general though, listening and doing are not the same thing. BioWare is going to struggle for a while to figure out how to prioritize what people want. 1000 people all asking for a relatively unimportant feature is hard to prioritize v.s. say the show stopping bug on D7 interrogator, v.s. defend the shipment still being bugged v.s. needing to completely rethink ilum. To some degree they can be done in parallel, but they're all separate problems, not everyone on the team will be able to work on all of them and so on. The graphics programmers might be really concerned about AA on textures, but if they also need an ultra low settings option may take priority. I'm pretty sure they're listening, when you look at the changes in 1.2 they're clearly listening to a lot of people and sometimes implementing full solutions and sometimes hacking in something that will hold us over until they can solve something properly. But you can't do everything, and they're clearly a bit out of their element trying to run a live product on this scale. By far the best explination I have ever read. My hat goes off to you sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORTTUUM Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It's hard to listen to Non-vocal people, as you know, they don't say anything. Good point. But there really IS a lot in this game for those who have lives out in the real world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Really. Amazing. - People complained about sorcs being overpowerd. Nerfhammered. - People complained about ops... nerfhammer. - People complained about Bh/Coms nerfhammer.... Basically all of you whined and complained and wanted everything nerfed (except your class.) And you got it. How did they not listen? I hadnt whined about anybody being overpowered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Get it right, the term is NerfBat. Hammers are used for banning, as in Ban Hammer. NerfSaber More Star Warsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Lack of content =/= easy content. There is TONS of content in the game. Eight unique storylines, two factions with their own stories on every planet, thousands of missions, most all voiced-over, three Warzones, tons of flash points, star fox shooter games, and quite a bit of end-game at launch. The problem is that it's stupid easy to get to 50, and then once you get to 50, that "quite a bit of end-game" translates to a week or two's worth of grinding. With everything awarding XP, XP gains should have been much, much lower. If you chose not to PvP, and not to do the space missions, you should have had to do bonus quests. I have yet to leave a planet and not out level the next by five levels or more. With Operations and hard modes really not being that hard, it's left people with nothing interesting to hold their attention other than alts. And questing the same zones over and over gets boring. At first i didnt pvp but now i do I was stuck on a ghost server until last night and now i am enjoying the Wz's every 5 minutes. That being said for £44.99 i expected more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempboy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 From what i have seen playing MMO's PvPer's complaining about abilities are more then likely the reason for every nerf, for example Champions online was fun PvE and everything was blanced well, but PvPers did not like some things and complained until the people making champions online caved to the PvPer's and nerfed stuff so bad that a majority of it's PvE player base left leading to the game dying and going free to play. Moral of the story is: Bioware.. Ignore the PvPer's they only complain cause they got beat by a class there for to them that class is OP and their class is too weak. Or if you are going to listen to them then have changes done to Skills in PvP not effect PvE abilities ( tho i would expect some abilities in PvE to get nerfed if they make the game way to easy) lol you are assuming bioware knows the difference between PVP and PVE... which is a BIG assumption, they only allow ONE spec at the moment remember? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pairadox Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Perhaps the problem is that they are listening to the wrong people. The healer forum had lots of constructive posts for improving balance. Their response? Ignore it all and nerf the **** out of 2/3 of the healers. Who was complaining? I presume PvPers as I dont visit that forum, but no one was calling for those nerfs on the Healer, Commando, or Operative forums. Keep your *********** PvP out of my PvE game. A coupla things muffin pants: 1) I dont care personally. I played a shaman. Pre BC. Nerfs dont scare me. Ive put up with having my class unbalanced and finding a way to make it work because I love the class..... so yeah, this patch doesnt effect me. 2) I was playing an operative when I got hit with the first nerf bat. (understandable.) The second nerfbat. (ok, this is getting a little ridiculous.) And finally this finishing move.... (Oh, look. how cute, their nerfing us AGAIN. At this rate, by the next content upgrade we are gonna have rifle shot. It ll be on a five minute cooldown, only useable during stealth, does 1 damage and heals the enemy target for 100k health, transports them to a mystical plane full of unicorns and rainbows, immediately transfers all credits on that toon to their bank account and destroys all gear the operative has equipped before instantly causing that operatives health to go to zero.) 3) I completely lost my train of thought with the whole unicorn thing. That was actually really funny to me. I cried a little. 4) PvE and PvP are two different animals. Balance for one, not both. Cause it aint gonna happen. 5) Dont take away my hybrid specs. 6) I like pie. I hope that clears some things up. Smoochies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohitei Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Am i alone in thinking that bioware takes absolutely no notice of what people are saying?. They have sunk so much money into this game and yet it takes them what seems like forever to make simple changes. I know it can be complicated but for them it shouldnt be too hard. NEVER! Cause they are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daluu Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Am i alone in thinking that bioware takes absolutely no notice of what people are saying?. They have sunk so much money into this game and yet it takes them what seems like forever to make simple changes. I know it can be complicated but for them it shouldnt be too hard. They are listening..... to EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefixx Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Am i alone in thinking that bioware takes absolutely no notice of what people are saying?. They have sunk so much money into this game and yet it takes them what seems like forever to make simple changes. I know it can be complicated but for them it shouldnt be too hard. Since they already know everything, they don't need to listen. Really that is going to be their downfall, is not listening to the players. The dev team isn't the ones paying to play. You would think we could have a special new ideas or feedback forum, instead of general discussion etc. The players should have a game we like to play, not one the devs sit around and pat themselves on the back telling each other they know everything. That is what got them in the fix they are in. That's why their is so much bias toward one faction, there has been no one keeping them balanced and they don't listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rami__ Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Trying to 'argue' with people who think a services provider (which BW is in this case) is not listening to it's client base (which is the anathema of any services provider) is like trying to argue with a religious zealot who will deny all science whilst reading on his iPad. You haven't clarified what they didn't listen to, or why you feel they didn't. Constructive feedback is the only way you'll ever get listened to, rightfully so. Arguments such as 'releasing combat logging and a few operation is stupid' is well... stupid?! The two features aren't necessarily linked, and from a code perspective I doubt they are entwined in any shape or form. We all lack sufficient information to decide what is good or bad in terms of packaging into a release, from a technical viewpoint. So discussions on those topics are nonsensical. Is it so hard to put your specific arguments forward in a constructive manner? The only thing this thread established so far is that you're unhappy about 'something'. Not much to listen to there. It's not how you do business in the real world son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Am i alone in thinking that bioware takes absolutely no notice of what people are saying?. They have sunk so much money into this game and yet it takes them what seems like forever to make simple changes. I know it can be complicated but for them it shouldnt be too hard. When they are no longer just a branding name of EA (IE never) EA is going to milk it into the dirt until their titles start flopping then they will dissolve/merge the development studio with a newly acquired studio name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNAstriker Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Perhaps the problem is that they are listening to the wrong people. The healer forum had lots of constructive posts for improving balance. Their response? Ignore it all and nerf the **** out of 2/3 of the healers. Who was complaining? I presume PvPers as I dont visit that forum, but no one was calling for those nerfs on the Healer, Commando, or Operative forums. Keep your *********** PvP out of my PvE game. EXACTLY! I PvE only on a PvE server. I'm there because I don't PvP at all and don't want to or deal with the PvP'ers that "think" they are better than us and "demand" that things get changed to "their" way. Lets see... Commandos are killing them too fast in PvP so...nerf them? And I guess that the healers can't be killed fast enough by the Pvp'ers, so nerf them also! I hate PvP'ers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaite Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You say FP, I say F2P. The real question we should be asking is are they really this dumb or are they sabotaging this game and their other recent games on purpose? I lean towards the former. But to what end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafucin Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So we get a new WZ, still the pop on servers are 99% Imps ...so we end up doing Huttball anyway. And now they f up races... Sith Jedi, Sith smuggler... why have factions after 1.2? Why don't we all go Imperial? More and more BW seem to turn into SOE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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