Diableus Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Okay then as every single topic I have read so far have really strayed from the point. Nerf healing aside this is not why people should worry because we can work past healing being reduced that's a simple hurdle. What people should be angry about is the ammo nerf which is devastating for PVE, as many of you know who do Operations some of the fights are so ammo intensive that you will run out of ammo at points but we are able to overcome that. Now then even if diminishing returns are changed and stats on gear are changed this will not improve your ammo regen unless they made Alacrity useful and had it increase regen rate. So then lets stay on the important point and that is for the love of GOD Bioware these ammo changes are stupid and if you think they are not you don't play the class or content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensiblepoast Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) You seem very logical, yet you just did more mathematics above without knowing all of the variables. Thats like saying 2 + 2 - (unsure of this number) = 1 Yea and what number can that be, eh? Soooo many to choose from that would fit the equation... Edited March 19, 2012 by sensiblepoast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetickone Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Please stop reading the patch notes and crying into your keyboards without thinking logically. There are changes to Diminishing returns, Itemization changes including stat budgeting, new tiers of gear, changes to how the accuracy mechanic works and is applied, more diverse mods to play with and completely new changes to the mathematics of PVP and PVE in 1.2 Yes on paper it looks like a nerf but the above changes will probably negate the nerfs or in fact make us more powerful overall. We have NO idea at all without way more details filtering through from testing how this will affect our class overall. Please try to keep an open mind. Hugs and Kisses Wrong. The changes you're identifying are across the board, the nerfs make certain classes less powerful relative to others. Its the relative class imbalance that still is irritating. Sages are still the only desirable healing class; CMs had to work their *** off before 1.2 to be desirable and outskill sages by 30 percent to raid. 1.2 only raised the skill requirement for CMs. Its basically like taking a pally in vanilla wow when you could have a priest....lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warkyd Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Please stop reading the patch notes and crying into your keyboards without thinking logically. There are changes to Diminishing returns, Itemization changes including stat budgeting, new tiers of gear, changes to how the accuracy mechanic works and is applied, more diverse mods to play with and completely new changes to the mathematics of PVP and PVE in 1.2 Yes on paper it looks like a nerf but the above changes will probably negate the nerfs or in fact make us more powerful overall. We have NO idea at all without way more details filtering through from testing how this will affect our class overall. Please try to keep an open mind. Hugs and Kisses Can you name one buff the commando has received? Only healer without an in combat res and only class that doesnt have an interrupt. Toss in the heat vs ammo and Commandos are an after thought, plain and simple. Edited March 20, 2012 by Warkyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro- Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The only mistake they keep making in my opinion is having too many classes to start with. This game has a mishmash of stuff each class can do and it always seems to be the problem that these companies underestimate the commitment and determination and skill of players who then take said classes and curb stomp people constantly. Then they get into a panic and start throwing out nerfs. Honestly, this every class can heal experiment by BW has shown failure from the start and now its going to not only effect the pvp peeps like myself its going to hurt the pve players too and its totally unfair for everyone. I think every player has the right to be extremely displeased with BW if for nothing else than the fact that this game precedes tons of mmo's its not like they are carving the path like eq, uo, ac did back in the day as pioneering games for a niche group of players. They also had years to develop the game and testing was extensively done and to have this stuff happening 3 months after release shows a real lack of leadership for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eMAeM Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thats really funny, cause I have looked at the wz stats every game, and I am on the top on combat medics damage and healing most every game. you are clearly doing it wrong then, along with you servermates. I push 600-800k regularly on voidstar without breaking a sweat (will upload screenshots if needed), and dont tell me that BM gear makes up for that compared to champion. Nerfs are needed, but they went way overboard whose those changes. i could take any flat reduction to healing but screwing around with our ammo efficiency is just plain wrong. but since theyre gonna listen to lowskilled whiny *****es on the forums instead of elqouent feedback from people who actually know their class. so i cba to actually post up anything constructive cause it wont be heard anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dast Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) you are clearly doing it wrong then, along with you servermates. I push 600-800k regularly on voidstar without breaking a sweat (will upload screenshots if needed), and dont tell me that BM gear makes up for that compared to champion. Nerfs are needed, but they went way overboard whose those changes. i could take any flat reduction to healing but screwing around with our ammo efficiency is just plain wrong. but since theyre gonna listen to lowskilled whiny *****es on the forums instead of elqouent feedback from people who actually know their class. so i cba to actually post up anything constructive cause it wont be heard anyway Go ahead, Im waiting to see that pics. And Id also like to see some of that eloquence that you speak of. I always like a good story with great eloquence, sorry to say I dont fall for pretty words by marketing departments. Real substance or forget it. I could probly do a few more points in pvp if I lose alacrity, and then my ops would suffer in pve. I dont think, with current gear available, I could do 700k even if i swapped all the mods just for a pvp set even with BM. But hey if you can I will bow in submission to your superior skillz. Edited March 20, 2012 by Dast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eMAeM Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Oh yah I believe you do 700k with your sage/sorc/scoundrel but a commando? Your full of it. Go ahead, post some photoshop screenshots, cause noone will believe you. I would go as far as to say that if you did, you were cheating. Lots of skill and cred in that : Go ahead, Im waiting to see that pics. And Id also like to see some of that eloquence that you speak of. its because of bads like you who dont know **** about their class or this game and start ************ all day about how op this and that is, that get other classes nerfed. clueless sheep. there you go. http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/2836/q83s2ccv_jpg.htm http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2836/5qacybnr_jpg.htm http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2836/uz4cs7cx_jpg.htm http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2836/6inamlwy_jpg.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dast Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) its because of bads like you who dont know **** about their class or this game and start ************ all day about how op this and that is, that get other classes nerfed. clueless sheep. there you go. http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/2836/q83s2ccv_jpg.htm http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2836/5qacybnr_jpg.htm http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2836/uz4cs7cx_jpg.htm http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2836/6inamlwy_jpg.htm And I am supposed to believe that champion gear how? How did I get any class nerfed? I only came on the forums after I read the patch notes that cm is getting nerfed. But I bow to you superior pvp skillz and just take nerfs and deal with it? I dunno, still dont think its right just because some pompous german can do 800k in who knows what gear. Edited March 20, 2012 by Dast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eMAeM Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) And I am supposed to believe that champion gear how? How did I get any class nerfed? I only came on the forums after I read the patch notes that cm is getting nerfed.but I bow to you superior pvp skillz and just take nerfs and deal with it? I dunno, still dont think its right just because some pompous german can do 800k in who knows what gear. where did i say champ? its full BM gear, 700 expertise. and i said people LIKE you get classes nerfed to oblivion without any real reason. cause you qq on the boards about how overpowered everyone else is but fail to realize that you just simply suck. thats what aggrevates me the most. So companies like BW and blizzard cater the game to the bads who usually make up a majority of the player base. thats just sad Edit: plus im as pissed as everyone else and im by no means saying "take those nerfs and deal with them". But as far as i see it they dont adress the core problems or the major sources of qq which are our survivability and the Combat Shield talent. Nobody ever said my output was too high or "OP". They all were crying about how immortal i am and how unfair Reactive Shield is coupled with that talent. Being uninterruptable for 15 sec is gamebreaking. but even then, people with half a brain could kill a commando after his cooldowns are gone but thats not a valid point to anybody cuz bads wont realize. So classes get nerfed to oblivion for no *********** reason. Edited March 21, 2012 by eMAeM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dast Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 where did i say champ? its full BM gear, 700 expertise. and i said people LIKE you get classes nerfed to oblivion without any real reason. cause you qq on the boards about how overpowered everyone else is but fail to realize that you just simply suck. thats what aggrevates me the most. So companies like BW and blizzard cater the game to the bads who usually make up a majority of the player base. thats just sad If 1% of the playerbase can get these high numbers and the rest cant, why make a game for 1% of people? I have seen 2 people say 300 for champion is average, and 2 people say thats bad. I understand what your saying, its the slippery slope. Cater to the best or the average bads that are majority. I am not trying to get anyone nerfed, especially my favorite combat medic. I do have problems with ammo management in pve, not in pvp. In pvp its stunlock and die very fast after I get a few heals, and I am not slacking off in the corner trying to be bad. I am casting as fast and as much as I can before I get focused. These changes will make it harder for pve, I can see that, and its hard already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eMAeM Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) If 1% of the playerbase can get these high numbers and the rest cant, why make a game for 1% of people? I have seen 2 people say 300 for champion is average, and 2 people say thats bad. I understand what your saying, its the slippery slope. Cater to the best or the average bads that are majority. I am not trying to get anyone nerfed, especially my favorite combat medic. I do have problems with ammo management in pve, not in pvp. In pvp its stunlock and die very fast after I get a few heals, and I am not slacking off in the corner trying to be bad. I am casting as fast and as much as I can before I get focused. These changes will make it harder for pve, I can see that, and its hard already. Exactly, they nerf a class because a low percentage does well and hurt the average player in the long run. Ive read reports of guilds on the PTS not being able to clear NM raids anymore with Patch 1.2 changes but doing so on live servers easily. Whats up with that? Why break classes in PVE on the behalf of PVP? Commandos are hard to kill, but thats no healing output matter. Its our little godmode shield which keeps us up, since youll be spamming instants anyway. Im at full ammo most of the time when i get focussed by more that 2 people because i wont get off many casts anyway so why the fudge did they have raise our ammo consumption? It doesnt make any sense. If they feel healing output in general is too high, why not amp up the Trauma debuff? Instead of breaking class mechanics which cripple PVE players even more. That just doesnt add up at all and its extremely frustrating to see. ANd regarding rated WZs... focus damage will do so much more than any healer could counter so our usefulness there is limited already as is, and i bet with those changes you either need more healers or none at all. Friggin nonsense. I see people getting killed by sith warrior cluster ****s all the time without any chance to react. They pound down people through guard with me full time spamming on them with adrenal/relic/SSC popped like nobodys business. So Rateds wont be much fun for healers versus competent teams who know how to focus a target. Edited March 21, 2012 by eMAeM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dast Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Exactly, they nerf a class because a low percentage does well and hurt the average player in the long run. Ive read reports of guilds on the PTS not being able to clear NM raids anymore with Patch 1.2 changes but doing so on live servers easily. Whats up with that? Why break classes in PVE on the behalf of PVP? Commandos are hard to kill, but thats no healing output matter. Its our little godmode shield which keeps us up, since youll be spamming instants anyway. Im at full ammo most of the time when i get focussed by more that 2 people because i wont get off many casts anyway so why the fudge did they have raise our ammo consumption? It doesnt make any sense. If they feel healing output in general is too high, why not amp up the Trauma debuff? Instead of breaking class mechanics which cripple PVE players even more. That just doesnt add up at all and its extremely frustrating to see. ANd regarding rated WZs... focus damage will do so much more than any healer could counter so our usefulness there is limited already as is, and i bet with those changes you either need more healers or none at all. Friggin nonsense. I see people getting killed by sith warrior cluster *****s all the time without any chance to react. They pound down people through guard with me full time spamming on them with adrenal/relic/SSC popped like nobodys business. So Rates wont be much fun for healers versus competent teams who know how to focus a target. Im pretty sure I can do better in pvp losing 1/2 of my alacrity, but I need it for pve. My finger is strong from hammer shot so much, these changes are gonna break my finger with even more hammer shot. A lot of people say its too easy so I guess they will make it harder with these changes since some people like you can handle it but with higher repair cost and rely on more RNG frustration. You have proven that combat medic is competitive in pvp with your scores. I am not sure thats a good reason for the nerfs though. The thread on the test forum said they had to lower it to hm to get by one or 2 boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eMAeM Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Im pretty sure I can do better in pvp losing 1/2 of my alacrity, but I need it for pve. My finger is strong from hammer shot so much, these changes are gonna break my finger with even more hammer shot. A lot of people say its too easy so I guess they will make it harder with these changes since some people like you can handle it but with higher repair cost and rely on more RNG frustration. You have proven that combat medic is competitive in pvp with your scores. I am not sure thats a good reason for the nerfs though. The thread on the test forum said they had to lower it to hm to get by one or 2 boss. Im with you on this one! Its no reason at all for nerfs of that magnitude, expecially when considering that they are placing the hammer on the wrong spots. The Output has never been the real issue. I will live almost just as long post patch, which was the point people were really getting at... Im still hoping this is some sort of Aprils Fool joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 If 1% of the playerbase can get these high numbers and the rest cant, why make a game for 1% of people? I have seen 2 people say 300 for champion is average, and 2 people say thats bad. BM gear is 4% better than Champ gear in stats, it also has worse mods overall which leads many people to switch out BM mods for champ mods in the end, most of my guild has done this. Your inability to get big numbers in PVP is not an indication of a bad class, its simply an indication of how bad you are at playing the class. I regularly (nightly) pvp with two CM's that produce 500k-800k healing while joking around on teamspeak in a relaxed environment. As brash as this is, you need to hear it. Learn how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Tell me oh enlightened one, how is that bad for a combat medic? As far as I have seen at valor rank 52 its on the high side for combat medic in wz. What server are you playing on that 52 is a high rank? I am close to 70 just doing dailies. My gear is 4/5 rakata, for pvp I put 2 pieces of champion on since the expertise damage and damage reduction are not worth the health loss, damage, and damage mitigation for 140 armor vs champion. 2 piece rakata is all you should wear for PVP healing, please google why, this is widely known How many wz does it take to get to valor 52? A lot is all I know and I have only been beaten once by another combat medics score that was 2k more than mine, while my damage was higher. Again, how are people doing this bad on your server? Also you are not dps, heal people. I see sorc/sage/smuggler do 500k to 700k almost every warzone. In the current state of the game Smugglers are struggling to achieve anything close to CM healing numbers, are you actually claiming to be outhealed by smugglers on a daily basis? If so thats just incredibly bad on your part. Everything above leads me to believe you have absolutely no place commenting on class balance, you clearly have no idea of how to play your class to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 But you do know, that if these diminishing returns changes are THIS big to compensate 30% healing lose for us, it means everyone else get this buff as well, and will do STILL alot more than us? Unless these changes are commando only, it does not help at all. Pls, think first, post after. It will be better for all of us. Firstly, it is not a 30% healing loss. Secondly why are you reading the word changes as "nerfs" and "buffs"? Your completely negative mindset now has you thinking that anything being changed will affect all classes equally. If you think logically you will see that changes could mean stat increase for one class and decrease for another, why do you need to read it the way you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillyWhiteS Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) And I am supposed to believe that champion gear how? How did I get any class nerfed? I only came on the forums after I read the patch notes that cm is getting nerfed. But I bow to you superior pvp skillz and just take nerfs and deal with it? I dunno, still dont think its right just because some pompous german can do 800k in who knows what gear. First thing I looked at were the deaths, just looked at the first two screenshots, both had 0 deaths and the first ended 0-0, I knew it was one of those games you get now and then where the other team are not that good to put it mildly. I too have healed over the 700k mark a few times and that was with a couple/few deaths, but that's only against teams that are not pre-made and/or against teams that don't focus fire on you, or mark you, over 700k is rare and requires the right type of circumstances. Circumstances like poor opposition team that lets you spam heal, no focus fire on you, not many doors not being capped in Void, or better yet, none at all, so you waste no time running and get the full time on the WZ clock in both offence/defence etc or very very rare games in Civil War that drag on a long time. mid not being capped for ages etc and lots of fighting in mid to keep the heals flowing, it's mainly only Void though. But then again I mainly only pugged, that means I rarely got guarded and less help against those that do stick to you like glue, I guess pre-made groups with lots of help would make it easier to get 700k healing, at least it helps keep you alive... On my server at least ( my Combat Medic is on Swiftsure, but playing on Aussie PvP server atm with alts ) I rarely see any other Commando/BH get near my best numbers in a normal WZ, I only remember one, maybe two WZ's it may have happened, so 700k certainly isn't the norm for the class on my popular server at least. It's just like highlights on youtube, if you only post the best moments, even good players can look world class, you don't see the 6+ death games, or the rare ones where you hit double figures, try healing for over 700k in those, pre made and or focus fire with over half the team on you, chain CC to death Feel good hitting around 450-500k in those, trouble is a lot of that is on yourself... Edit* We DIDN'T need nerfing, having played a Seer to 50 before changing server and making a Combat Medic, you can see what you miss out on when you 'drop down' to a Combat Medic, heavy Armour is nothing compared to all the stuff a Seer has, these nerfs are unjust. If we are OP, what does that mean for Sorcs/sages who are better, or a good force using melee player who kills Combat Medics easily with too much CC and other stuff to stop your heals etc, they must be more OP too then. Edited March 24, 2012 by LillyWhiteS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 This isn't alpha or beta. We are 3 months after launch. I like my class the way it plays. I don't give a flying fig about how George and his team of halfwits wants to change the game when I enjoy how it plays now. If these changes go live I will not be around. Already canceled...sub expires in 2 days. Their communication peeps better step it up into high gear because I am not going through another blizzard style shaman nerfing only to have the class semi playable 2 years later. *Most* people play MMO's because they change over time. The fact that they're making as many changes as they are is positive, it means they're adapting the game rapidly to incorporate feedback and metrics. In one paragraph you're complaining that Blizzard took 2 years to fix shamans while also saying you don't want anything to change. Honestly, the fact that you're married to the exact way the class is right now and are that upset about minor changes is kindof childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezzer Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Unless the tier bonuses are "regenerate an extra ammo every 3 seconds" any notes beyond ammo nerfs are irrelevant. Exactly. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezzer Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Okay then as every single topic I have read so far have really strayed from the point. Nerf healing aside this is not why people should worry because we can work past healing being reduced that's a simple hurdle. What people should be angry about is the ammo nerf which is devastating for PVE, as many of you know who do Operations some of the fights are so ammo intensive that you will run out of ammo at points but we are able to overcome that. Now then even if diminishing returns are changed and stats on gear are changed this will not improve your ammo regen unless they made Alacrity useful and had it increase regen rate. So then lets stay on the important point and that is for the love of GOD Bioware these ammo changes are stupid and if you think they are not you don't play the class or content. Yes and yes!! That's my biggest problem too. The only heal that isn't effected by ammo regen is BI now that TP costs ammo. How can we keep ourselves in a reasonable regen zone? If we get hit with a need for some massive healing we're toast and so are our teammates. So with that in mind what healer would you want in an intense fire fight? I think 1.2 is going to make CM's into pariahs, and that's just not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dast Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Everything above leads me to believe you have absolutely no place commenting on class balance, you clearly have no idea of how to play your class to begin with. I have a place commenting on unwarranted combat medic nerfs. I play one and I paid my sub. I like how you twisted everything I posted to support your positions. Anyone with a 3rd grade reading comprehension can see what you did thar. Since my posting ban seems to be lifted, I will start answering yours and others propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 I have a place commenting on unwarranted combat medic nerfs. I play one and I paid my sub. I like how you twisted everything I posted to support your positions. Anyone with a 3rd grade reading comprehension can see what you did thar. Since my posting ban seems to be lifted, I will start answering yours and others propaganda. Your words weren't twisted, they were quoted exactly as written and incorrect or ridiculously unresearched or inexperienced. Thanks for stopping by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dast Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Your words weren't twisted, they were quoted exactly as written and incorrect or ridiculously unresearched or inexperienced. Thanks for stopping by That is your opinion based on what you learned on the internets. You have shown no first hand knowledge of the issues with combat medic, you just quote what you learned on the internet which does not correlate with a vast majority of the Combat Medics views on this very forum and numerous others, including the test server forum. Even the uberalles german gun is crying about ammo management for pve now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 That is your opinion based on what you learned on the internets. You have shown no first hand knowledge of the issues with combat medic, you just quote what you learned on the internet which does not correlate with a vast majority of the Combat Medics views on this very forum and numerous others, including the test server forum. Even the uberalles german gun is crying about ammo management for pve now. Sidestepping the fact that you cannot play and demonstrated it multiple times in this thread with ridiculous comments doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't be offering an opinion on something you don't understand. Simple facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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