1.2 Hard Mode loot. Why raid when you can just run dailies?

[Nuberoja]

apologize in advance if this is a reiterated question, as I have only read about half of the 36 pages in this thread.

 

has it been confirmed that ALL GEAR PIECES are available via Corellia dailies? or is it like belsavis/ilum dailie comms here only implants/ear pieces are available (or some other variation of a few pieces)?

 

next point: my understanding is you can get, what, 6 Corellia comms if you complete every daily, each week? How much does each tier 2 piece cost? What its going to take, a month of daily dailies? 6 monoths? to gear up?

 

I just levelled an alt to 50 in 2 weeks, and one week later I am almost full columi. give me another two weeks ill be more than half rakata. Our guild is doing HM ops. my point being that even if tis been confirmed all dailies can be had in corellia (weapons too!?) then it would take more time to get geared in corellia than it would to level a character to 50, participate in a couple ops per week, to get fully geared.

 

As far I know, corelia daily dont give black comendations, but a weekly quest there that give you 6.

[Chewpaco]

1.2 PvE Gear:

 

"Campaign" hard Raid Gear is Rating 146 (Mod Slot 61)

"Blackhole" Corellia Commendation Gear is Rating 146 (Mod Slot 61)

 

Whats the point of raiding in SWTOR when I can just run some faceroll dailies and get "hard mode" raid gear.

 

Raiding in this game keeps getting worse not better. GW2 out yet?

 

There is so much wrong with this statement, and underscores some underlying issues imbedded deep within some players minds within MMO's.

 

E-Peen. How does the item level of the gear received from raiding have anything to do whatsover with challenge of the encounter?

 

So you can stand around in the Republic Fleet and say "Hey, look at me - i'm in Level 146 gear, you are not. I am awesome, you must suck."

 

Why wouldn't a title suffice? Chewpaco, Conquerer of the Unconquerable. Does the same thing essentially. It let's everyone know, that I conquered the toughest challenge in the game, while you couldn't.

 

Isn't it the recognition for being the best what you really seek? Why does it matter, if you can obtain level 146 gear in 2 different ways?

 

God forbid, somebody have powerful gear, that hasnt been carried by others in a raid. How many times have you seen bad players in awesome gear in other games, that were carried to epic gear greatness? I have seen it a lot. How many times have I seen casual players, with every bit as good of skills as hardcore players - situational awareness wise, be left behind on the gear grind hampster wheel? A lot.

 

How about proclaiming your superiority over other players via skills - not gear. Are you afraid that a casual player with less time to devote, will out perform you in a combat situation? When a casual player gets left behind in the gear grind because of this hampster wheel, less skilled players can outperform based on gear alone. Doesn't sound like a good system to me.

 

A system like this makes raid encounters more about skill, less about gear.

[Kasukua]

why don;t you guys understand that yes, while playing this game should merely be for fun, a part of this game (see: HUGE PART) is getting better gear, so you can achieve more within your spectrum of fun.

 

example: If I have fun playing BT HM and losing, but I'll ahve more fun by beating it. Then I need better gear to have a little more fun. Its FUN to get better gear, its 'rewarding' based on time spent.

 

I am not pressing a food lever for pellets to drop,

 

 

If you can play this entire game and have fun in level 10 green gear, then by all means do what you have to do.

[taloros]

I think people are seriously starting to forget who this game was designed for. This game was designed for the casual player NOT the 1 % elite guilds. Reality is about 99% of the population of this game are casual players you keep screwing with that and guess what your going to have a ghost town. I understand that the operations are too easy for elite hardcore raid guilds and that BW did attempt to tackle this with the stages. The problem arose with the elite guilds always expect to get some sort of reward better then the other modes for there troubles.

 

That is a constant problem in any MMO you have a small % who think somehow they are superior to everyone else and deserve to be treated that way. Honestly those people are what are causing most MMO's to tank recently. I have been guilty of this in the past also unfortunately.they constantly hound the devs to change things so the devs copy there guilds over to the test server and base all the changes to end game content on the top elite guilds which tightens the learning curve so tightly that a large % of the casual raiding guilds give up and quit the game. Thus in turn a few months later comes the server combines and then shortly after that comes the free to play models. Im not saying that is going to happen here but take a look who is testing end game of 1.2 there is not one casual raiding guild testing that content. Everyone testing it has been doing nightmare modes easily and completing it.

 

Where is a guild that is doing just hardmodes? Which is about 99% of your current player base. See that is why BW is putting in that weekly blackhole quest they realize that a majority of there casual guilds are going to have serious issues in the raid zones and they are giving them a means to get a few pieces to help cushion the blow. Those guilds will use the daily quests as a means to obtain a few pieces of tiered armor so they can buffer the upgraded 1.2 ops and be able to still compete. I am a raider and have been a hardcore raider in the past so I know both sides but this game is a casual players game not a hardcore raiders game and I really wish people would stop trying to turn it into a hardcore raiders game. if that is what you want go look for another MMO that is more suited for that.

[Ellnassil]

Ever heard of enrage timers?

 

Yeah, heared about but dont see them very often. If you have a Full Rakata Geared Raid you wont need the DPS from the new Member.

[Xeres_Ajani]

After reading nearly 25 pages of this. (no small task i might add) I had a couple of thoughts.

 

Why is it that some of these 'raiders' think that players who use the Black Hole commendations to get the gear is like getting gear without /any/ effort. If you think about it, it would require more effort to get them this way.

 

Example:

 

- To get a Rakata implant requires 120 Daily commendations and at 25 commendations per day, would require five days to get this single piece. Now, those 25 commendations would take about two or three hours to obtain bringing the total time invested per piece to ten or fifteen hours.

 

- To get a Rakata armor piece currently involves completing a boss fight in a raid. Raids typically take about two hours to complete.

 

 

Therefore, the raider is obtaining their gear about 5 to 7.5 times as fast.

 

 

The solo/low man method of obtaining the items is more work involved to get them. They should be rewarded as not everyone /wants/ to raid. I'm not saying hand them the items without work, but saying they shouldn't be entitled to anything because they want to play the game differently then someone else.

 

Raiding should be about getting the gear faster and with challenges they can feel pride in accomplishing.

 

The solo/low man group should be allowed to obtain the same gear with more work involved so they can feel a sense of accomplishment as well.

[Gavin_Darkl]

The solo/low man group should be allowed to obtain the same gear with more work involved so they can feel a sense of accomplishment as well.

 

 

No people who solo should get solo gear not raid gear. If they do not wish to raid why do they need that raid gear? Presence gear can be used to make true solo content where if a person's companion is not buffed for tanking, healing or DPSing you can not finish the encounter.

 

If Casual raiders want to augment there gear fine, they still should need to down a raid boss for a boss kill token that allows them to buy a piece of gear. So the few people who can not raid as often as others can keep up or get geared quickly from raiding a handful of times.

 

The problem is we are allowing Developers to take an easy way out by not creating a true Solo content/Gear system plus a casual raid gear up system. If this was done the only people that would be against it are people who can not make a logical argument.

 

My argument is this in a nut shell.

 

A - Casual Raiders given a way to gear up quicker then current however it still revolves around killing a raid boss. This can be useful because if Jacko can down 4 bosses with his guild one night and has enough daily commendations with the 4 Raid Boss kill tokens he could pick up 4 pieces.

 

B - Solo Players Given Gear that makes them better when it comes to Solo Content. This allows true Solo content to be developed, and solo players will be very happy. Yes the solo gear sucks for raiding and yes raid gear for the most part should suck for Solo content. Solo content T3 Boss Ikillyou should own a Raid geared T3 player because how a companion should be used and required. However A T1 Solo Boss named Isuck vs a T3 raid geared person should go down hard.

 

Again I am giving people what they want WITHOUT giving the gear out. You are Earning your gear.

[Gavin_Darkl]

I think people are seriously starting to forget who this game was designed for. This game was designed for the casual player NOT the 1 % elite guilds. Reality is about 99% of the population of this game are casual players you keep screwing with that and guess what your going to have a ghost town. I understand that the operations are too easy for elite hardcore raid guilds and that BW did attempt to tackle this with the stages. The problem arose with the elite guilds always expect to get some sort of reward better then the other modes for there troubles.

 

That is a constant problem in any MMO you have a small % who think somehow they are superior to everyone else and deserve to be treated that way. Honestly those people are what are causing most MMO's to tank recently. I have been guilty of this in the past also unfortunately.they constantly hound the devs to change things so the devs copy there guilds over to the test server and base all the changes to end game content on the top elite guilds which tightens the learning curve so tightly that a large % of the casual raiding guilds give up and quit the game. Thus in turn a few months later comes the server combines and then shortly after that comes the free to play models. Im not saying that is going to happen here but take a look who is testing end game of 1.2 there is not one casual raiding guild testing that content. Everyone testing it has been doing nightmare modes easily and completing it.

 

Where is a guild that is doing just hardmodes? Which is about 99% of your current player base. See that is why BW is putting in that weekly blackhole quest they realize that a majority of there casual guilds are going to have serious issues in the raid zones and they are giving them a means to get a few pieces to help cushion the blow. Those guilds will use the daily quests as a means to obtain a few pieces of tiered armor so they can buffer the upgraded 1.2 ops and be able to still compete. I am a raider and have been a hardcore raider in the past so I know both sides but this game is a casual players game not a hardcore raiders game and I really wish people would stop trying to turn it into a hardcore raiders game. if that is what you want go look for another MMO that is more suited for that.

 

Taloros No one is saying that this game has to be an Elite raiding game. Really the current raiding kinda sucks. Here is why. Guilds go into EV normal first night and its a full clear. A few mistakes made yes however EV with little effort is cleared. Same with Hard Mode EV, Only fight that is a problem is SOA. Thats because his bugs, you get him to 15% and he despawns, or he throws people in the air that have lighting balls on them and it wipes the raid. These are 2 no win bugs and only luck allows you around them not skill. So yes raids need to get worked on.

 

As for Casuals. I will point this out I play about 8 hours a week 10 at most. Most of my time in game is spent Raiding, the other time standing around the fleet because I don't find that much appealing right now. HM Flashpoints really are not attractive for me mainly because everyone is a enrage boss fight and it does not take skill to do enrage boss fights. We down them without fail with our core raiders. I would rather have a boss that if we do not work with the mechanic then we wipe. Hitting DPS numbers all the time is not really enjoyable.

 

Anyways back to Casuals. Its Simple read my post about how to gear players based around weather you have daily coms and boss kill tokens. It's faster then weekly quest and yes it forces you to raid. So if you want to raid and get raid gear you raid to get that gear. If you want solo content you get the solo gear.

[Raeln]

Yeah, heared about but dont see them very often. If you have a Full Rakata Geared Raid you wont need the DPS from the new Member.

 

Yeah, I suppose it's true. Once you've beaten the game, all the previous content is a lot easier to do.

 

Not all of us have raids sporting 8 or 16 fully Rakata geared players there Tiger. After examining your supposed guild name, I see why you have the opinion you do. I hope you feel comfortable in your small minority of players.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Raeln

[Raeln]

No people who solo should get solo gear not raid gear. If they do not wish to raid why do they need that raid gear? Presence gear can be used to make true solo content where if a person's companion is not buffed for tanking, healing or DPSing you can not finish the encounter.

 

You know - I'm fine with this as long as without the same presence stat, the raider can't power through the same content. If they want to do dailies for repair money, then I guess they need to build a set of presence gear too.

 

So I take it you would be fine if raid gear was only usable inside raid instances?

[Gavin_Darkl]

Maybe you would spend time raiding at that point because you want to play with your friends? of course, I'm assuming that you have a group of good online friends to play with though.

 

I can tell you that my ops group is a blast to hang out with. It's like 4 hours of comedy central every week.

 

Yes my friends and I raid together. However none of us will stay here if you can buy raid gear just by doing dailies. You are encouraging people to skip the content and ask for handouts that way. It sounds like a poser to me. I keep saying if people want raid gear however they are casual a system can be designed for them as long as it still requires them to kill raid bosses. Why because then they are playing the content, not avoiding it.

 

O and BTW we could have cleared all of hard modes, (SOA if we stop getted the bugs) but then what? Not a single person cares for doing Nightmare modes, the most we talked about it is lets down a few bosses to get 2 the extra pieces of rakata gear. Not for the challenge not for titles. These things are pointless to us really. Give us gear and a good social environment and we are happy.

[Raeln]

Yes my friends and I raid together. However none of us will stay here if you can buy raid gear just by doing dailies. You are encouraging people to skip the content and ask for handouts that way. It sounds like a poser to me. I keep saying if people want raid gear however they are casual a system can be designed for them as long as it still requires them to kill raid bosses. Why because then they are playing the content, not avoiding it.

 

Story mode allows them to see the content.

 

Allowing them to purchase "raid gear", which is really just PvE gear is the nature of the modern MMO. If they cannot buy it, then they will end up leaving.

 

It's just common sense for a business to attempt to appeal to the larger segment of players - and you, Gavin, are not in the larger segment. Raiding has never been.

 

O and BTW we could have cleared all of hard modes, (SOA if we stop getted the bugs) but then what? Not a single person cares for doing Nightmare modes, the most we talked about it is lets down a few bosses to get 2 the extra pieces of rakata gear. Not for the challenge not for titles. These things are pointless to us really. Give us gear and a good social environment and we are happy.

 

Thank you for clarifying that your raid group only raids for gear and not the challenge. Remove the gear carrot and suddenly you, and your raid group (if you are telling the truth) are ready to run to your corner, pull the ePeen card and cry foul.

 

I'd rather have a healthy game, full of players at max level that can be recruited easily from than have a small, sickly game where the developers cater to the those that call themselves "hardcore raiders" that are barely more than a small group of players with a lot of time on their hands. They can't see the forest for the trees because they are blinded by their demands to have a special cookie that no one else should be allowed to have.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Raeln

[Gavin_Darkl]

You know - I'm fine with this as long as without the same presence stat, the raider can't power through the same content. If they want to do dailies for repair money, then I guess they need to build a set of presence gear too.

 

So I take it you would be fine if raid gear was only usable inside raid instances?

 

No because here is why. The Solo content I am talking about should be Different then the current dailies.

 

Solo content should be this. 15 to 30 minutes in a instance like event. (Story line like quest) so I can only be you and your companion. Now you can in these Solo Instances have spells for both you and your companion that now are active and Presence increases how good these spells are. (all this would need to be developed and tested over a month or 2 to get it right) in any case these instances will require you to use just about all these new spells.(remember they can only be used in solo instances no where else). Now the solo content should be tiered much like Raiding, it should take you a month or so to go from 1 to another, not hit tier cap in a week. like raiding does with lock outs.

 

Yes raid gear can help if you are T3 raid gear doing a T1 Solo instance as long as you have 2 or 3 pieces of solo gear. However if you are doing T3 gear you should be in at the very least half T3 Solo gear, yes the rest can be T3 raid gear. This allows players who want to raid and way to down the solo content without having to devote the same amount of time to soloing as to raiding.

 

Solo content should be like raiding as in it should be gated so you dont see T3 geared people after 1 week of soloing. There should be time spent = progression.

 

This could encourage also solo players to spend time raiding for more content.

 

now for why raid gear should not be only for raiding. Solo content (AKA Solo instances where you get solo epic gear from) is different then daily quest, or flashpoints, or datacron runs. These are all considered non end game well besides daily quest. However these PVE areas are meant for getting credits for repairs, or to use the GTN, or a ton of other non end game progression oriented activities. Yea they maybe be tied to it in some way its just not like you can go to the GTN work and buy T3 Raid or Solo gear.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Story mode allows them to see the content.

 

Allowing them to purchase "raid gear", which is really just PvE gear is the nature of the modern MMO. If they cannot buy it, then they will end up leaving.

 

It's just common sense for a business to attempt to appeal to the larger segment of players - and you, Gavin, are not in the larger segment. Raiding has never been.

 

 

 

Thank you for clarifying that your raid group only raids for gear and not the challenge. Remove the gear carrot and suddenly you, and your raid group (if you are telling the truth) are ready to run to your corner, pull the ePeen card and cry foul.

 

 

Actually no its not. Purchasing raid gear started in WoW with really WTOLK where the all mighty dollar became more important then Quality. Yes it's about business sense however the problem is this. You can say its business related if you don't hand out the gear, however guess what there are more games that do that then don't Right now there is a much larger group of people that want to earn it then want it handed to them. I am on a server that use to be over populated and had an hour queue. After the raiders discovered how easy the content is and (this was asked at the Guild Summit) why is the gear the same between nightmare and hard mode. Just a heads up a few hard core raiding guilds are having attendance issues because of these 2 core issues. They are not ever going to come to the SWTOR forum and argue over it. They did just this, cancel their accounts and left the game. Right now my server is heavy most nights because people are coming here from other servers. Not because these players came back.

 

Yes if tomorrow SWTOR patched in where we could go to the GTN work and buy gear for credits we would leave. What is the point of raiding and beating your head against the walk with bugs or even truly hard content if 1 person can screw up and wipe the raid. Go do dailies buy the raid gear. Really there is no point to raiding if this was the case. We raid to progress, progressing in an MMO is getting better gear. If progression meant getting a new spell that increase my healing by 5% I would do that.

 

Sorry I do not nor will I ever raid for nothing. Yes titles, gear which you can buy without raiding much like WoW. I would rather go watch a cooking show rather then spend time doing nothing. At least with the cooking show I would learn how to cook something.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Gavin_Darkl

[Xeres_Ajani]

Gavin, please go Re-read my entire post instead of just clipping a tiny bit you don't agree with.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Gavin, please go Re-read my entire post instead of just clipping a tiny bit you don't agree with.

 

I did I disagree with you period. You still want people to get raid gear for not completing the content. If people don't want to raid but they want to solo they should be given solo gear for completing solo content.

[Xeres_Ajani]

Would be nice, but you know, your 'raid gear' is PVE gear. not 'raid gear'. There is no stat on it that says "Raid" or anything else that buffs your performance while raiding and only raiding like the expertise stat does for PVP. As for you suggestion of Presence. If you ONLY have that stat on then ONLY your companion improves and not you. Therefore making soloing IMPOSSIBLE if you are playing "Pokemon in Space".

 

If you are so 'hard core' about raid gear only being for raiding, then you should in fact be trying to get Bioware to make a tier of gear with a raid only stat. This stat would improve everything while you are in an Ops zone but be useless everywhere else since it's RAID gear.

 

Until such time as that is implemented, 'Raid gear' is still Player Versus Environment gear. If BW wants to include alternate and more time consuming ways to obtain better PVE gear that doesn't involve getting 7-15 other people working together regularly then good for them for providing ALTERNATE METHODS to obtain something.

 

If your guild is going to fold just because joe somebody can get the same piece of gear as you but taking them over five times as much effort then I can say with pride that SWTOR will be better off for the loss.

 

Pride of accomplishment is one thing. Ego and gear based E-peen is nothing to be proud of.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

Here is an outstanding example from my time in FFXI.

 

Relic weapons. Best weapons in the game. People who ran Linkshells (Guilds) that did Dynamis (raids) would get the currency faster and complete their weapons before normal people.

 

HOWEVER

 

The average player could buy currency from others and work towards the weapon on their own. Only in the last two stages would a group be required for the items. (However the group now is substantially less with the level cap increase)

Edited March 28, 2012 by Xeres_Ajani

[Gavin_Darkl]

Would be nice, but you know, your 'raid gear' is PVE gear. not 'raid gear'. There is no stat on it that says "Raid" or anything else that buffs your performance while raiding and only raiding like the expertise stat does for PVP. As for you suggestion of Presence. If you ONLY have that stat on then ONLY your companion improves and not you. Therefore making soloing IMPOSSIBLE if you are playing "Pokemon in Space".

 

If you are so 'hard core' about raid gear only being for raiding, then you should in fact be trying to get Bioware to make a tier of gear with a raid only stat. This stat would improve everything while you are in an Ops zone but be useless everywhere else since it's RAID gear.

 

Until such time as that is implemented, 'Raid gear' is still Player Versus Environment gear. If BW wants to include alternate and more time consuming ways to obtain better PVE gear that doesn't involve getting 7-15 other people working together regularly then good for them for providing ALTERNATE METHODS to obtain something.

 

If your guild is going to fold just because joe somebody can get the same piece of gear as you but taking them over five times as much effort then I can say with pride that SWTOR will be better off for the loss.

 

Pride of accomplishment is one thing. Ego and gear based E-peen is nothing to be proud of.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

Here is an outstanding example from my time in FFXI.

 

Relic weapons. Best weapons in the game. People who ran Linkshells (Guilds) that did Dynamis (raids) would get the currency faster and complete their weapons before normal people.

 

HOWEVER

 

The average player could buy currency from others and work towards the weapon on their own. Only in the last two stages would a group be required for the items. (However the group now is substantially less with the level cap increase)

 

You need to read my post about solo content gear. The presence gear will be the best for this, raid gear will not. It means there is a new totally separate set of content. Its like raiding but its not a true raid, its more like a solo flashpoint. Anyways Both sets of gear in the normal world will be just fine however the gear itself can be setup to not be interchangeable Yea if a person who raids again has a few pieces of raid gear and the rest in solo gear the solo content is do-able.

 

O and FYI if you read it I say there should be spells that you can only use in Solo content, that are affected by the presence stat. The only problem with 2 ways of gearing is that developers would need to pay attention to both sets of content instead of just raiding.

 

If you read that you will see I am saying have 2 different progression paths and there is very little interchange ability of the 2 unless its 2 Tier levels lower then what you have of either solo or Raid gear.

[Chewpaco]

Gavin -

 

Seriously, why do you care if item level 146 gear is obtained in a way via diffrent than raiding. Im interested in hearing a logical reply. What does it matter?

 

If you were to get something that made you visually stand out at the Republic Fleet, like glowing augs or weapns, something to let everyone know your guild is the best on the server?

 

I don't get the argument. All Hardcore raiders that I know, really want recognition for being the best, first and foremost. And I absolutley think they deserve their due for that. They are the ones who figure encounters out. They are the ones who make the Tankspot videos that the sheep follow. Cool.

 

Why is it necessary for a guild that WATCHES Tankspot videos, then completes the encounters - to hold superior gear over a casual player? Some people don't have the time to raid. They are every bit as good of players as people that raid 5 nights a week.

 

Honestly - I think some marginal raiders, that happen to be in good guilds that carry them, get concerned that:

 

1. A casual player will out perform them in combat, because they no longer have the gear advantage, it comes down to skill.

 

2. Thier concept of what is difficult and awesome and "The Hardest Thing to Do In the Game" - becomes shattered when casuals clear the same content.

 

The encounters should come down to mechanics and skills, not gear wars.

 

I could be every bit as good as the Healer clearing NM modes, but I don't have the time to raid 20 hours a week to gear up fast enough. So I should be withheld from content, because a gear curve says that an inferior player to me that has more time to play the game, gets to keep progressing, because his gear affords him the right to make more mistakes?

 

Doesn't make any sense dude.

 

Unless you want your superior gear for E-Peen reasons. Then it makes all the sense in the world.

 

But titles, trophies, glowing weapons - all of these things will give you the recognition you desire - and still allow very good casual players the opportunity to see and complete content based on skill, not on a gear hampster wheel grind fest.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Gavin -

 

Seriously, why do you care if item level 146 gear is obtained in a way via diffrent than raiding. Im interested in hearing a logical reply. What does it matter?

.

 

Logic. For the 1000th time. A person who does not kill the raid boss does not earn the loot. I thought any person who understands logic can understand this. Why should YOU get raid loot because yes thats where this loot drop from raid bosses get the loot for not downing the boss? No one least of all me is talking about running around anywhere acting like a dumb *** with the gear on. What the problem is, is this you want the gear for no effort killing the raid boss. Earn the loot by killing the boss not by doing endless dailies or weeklies that any person that plays the game can do.

[Chewpaco]

Logic. For the 1000th time. A person who does not kill the raid boss does not earn the loot. I thought any person who understands logic can understand this. Why should YOU get raid loot because yes thats where this loot drop from raid bosses get the loot for not downing the boss? No one least of all me is talking about running around anywhere acting like a dumb *** with the gear on. What the problem is, is this you want the gear for no effort killing the raid boss. Earn the loot by killing the boss not by doing endless dailies or weeklies that any person that plays the game can do.

 

What you say STILL MAKES NO SENSE. Fine, take your raid gear with a different name, different graphic.

 

There is no way I can get that same look, or same named gear, without raiding.

 

But I can get identical gear - stats wise, doing other things.

 

Why do you feel that killing the same bosses 25 times with your guild, devoting countless hours of grindfest invested in raiding - should further progress you on a curve ahead of someone else that doesnt have the time, or the desire to do such things.

 

If those encounters TRULY are the toughest in the game, take your title, your unique LOOKING gear, and prance around all you want, showing your vast superiority over me.

 

If it truly is skill based, and not a gear war, I will never be able to get that title or that awesome look that you have. You can have your e-peen feel good moment every time you look at me.

 

This is about being able to put better performance numbers up, based on gear acquired. And as I have already stated -

 

Most raiders feel this way, because the thought of a casual player being more skilled, with less time to play, defelates their sensitive egos.

 

The thought that perhaps RAIDING is more about a groups collection of gear to mathematically overcome the encounter, vs skills and mechanics, would mean they would have to admit:

 

That is is not because I am a skilled player that I have all this gear. It is because I devoted X number of hours to grind it out with other members.

 

Your fear of what you perceive to be skill, being reduced to nothing more than mathematical certanties - based on a groups collection of gear, would shatter a lot of E-Peen raiders feeling of self -worth.

[Tarmi]

Logic. For the 1000th time. A person who does not kill the raid boss does not earn the loot. I thought any person who understands logic can understand this. Why should YOU get raid loot because yes thats where this loot drop from raid bosses get the loot for not downing the boss? No one least of all me is talking about running around anywhere acting like a dumb *** with the gear on. What the problem is, is this you want the gear for no effort killing the raid boss. Earn the loot by killing the boss not by doing endless dailies or weeklies that any person that plays the game can do.

 

But...but...it's end game loot.

 

Unless you are first guild to clear something raiding is ezmode.

 

1. go to web and get strategy video

2. get rest of raid group to watch video

3. repeat boss fight until everyone in group gets the dance down

4. collect shiny epics

 

Raiding is just another end game time sink.

 

In case you are wondering I don't raid in swtor but raided extensivly in Wow and Rift. I don't care how people get endgame loot and always have found this argument silly.

[Chewpaco]

But...but...it's end game loot.

 

Unless you are first guild to clear something raiding is ezmode.

 

1. go to web and get strategy video

2. get rest of raid group to watch video

3. repeat boss fight until everyone in group gets the dance down

4. collect shiny epics

 

Raiding is just another end game time sink.

 

In case you are wondering I don't raid in swtor but raided extensivly in Wow and Rift. I don't care how people get endgame loot and always have found this argument silly.

 

You are exactly right. It is silly. And raiders that feel that their stats should be vastly superior to others, because they did the grind forever is driven by E-Peen superiority complexes.

 

It is the accomplishment that matters. Not the gear. I could run a raid encounter for the first time with identical stats as someone that ran it 30 times.

 

He will out perform me. Because he knows the encounter, and at that point is more skilled because of it. Practice at the encounter has made him more skilled.

 

However, I could run that encounter 4 more times, get the hang of it, and perform on the same level, or out perform the guy that ran it 30 times.

 

Why should I have to do this 25 times, 5 nights a week - just to compete in a gear war. It makes no sense.

 

Now if I was never able to complete the encounter, because I wasn't skilled enough - even though I have the same stats for gear. Now that is saying something. This raider truly is more skilled than me.

 

Take your trophy, your title, your glowing weapon, and be on your way. Congratulations, you are better than me. I am fine with that. I'm not fine with that I can't compete, simply because I didn't want to raid 20 hours a week, 5 nights a week.

 

**EDIT**

 

This is why I prefer Keys / Flags to advance. Keys and Flagging systems are a better indication of skill than a gear war. Keys and Flags to advance, show your experience and your skill. Not grinding gear until you can mathematically overcome it as a whole.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Chewpaco

[krinaman]

Logic. For the 1000th time. A person who does not kill the raid boss does not earn the loot. I thought any person who understands logic can understand this. Why should YOU get raid loot because yes thats where this loot drop from raid bosses get the loot for not downing the boss? No one least of all me is talking about running around anywhere acting like a dumb *** with the gear on. What the problem is, is this you want the gear for no effort killing the raid boss. Earn the loot by killing the boss not by doing endless dailies or weeklies that any person that plays the game can do.

 

The loot doesn't drop from a raid boss. You buy it from a vendor.

[Mindsplitter]

It's not raid gear, it's just gear. Stop worrying about what other people have. If you only get enjoyment out of having better gear to show off on the space stations then your going to be disappointed.

 

And as far as gear with stats that only buff your companion, how freekin heroic is that. My companion is better then me? Your just being silly. That is NOT very heroic at all. And this is your personal story after-all.

 

All your chest thumping isn't going to change the fact that it's just gear. People can earn it by doing dailies over and over again, or by running Ops over and over again. Whatever floats their boat.

 

I'll run Ops to attain the gear faster, but I couldn't care less if some guy has the same gear I have because he persevered though countless dailies. In fact: good for him/her.

 

I hope you have a wonderful life.